Youtube Builds - Can We Stop Please?

Gnozo · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

OblivionNW wrote: »

Sorry to break your little bubble, but a Tank is a support role and supporting involves buffing the rest of your group. By not buffing them your bringing down the groups potential, Liofa and others summed it up perfectly. Its a shame you ignore every reasonable counter argument and go on ranting with everything else.

Liofa wrote: »

First of all, I wanna say that I don't support the behaviour of the raid leader of that group. It's not a good thing to mock people. It's just childish and doesn't fit the face of raiding community in ESO.

Anyway, ESO is a game where everyone in the group helps each other. Healers help tanks and DDs by restoring their resources, purging negative effects and giving them buffs and debuffing enemies. DDs help each other by utilising Major Slayer sets, buffing each other with different class passives and debuffing enemies. Tanks release pressure from healers by running self heals, help DDs by increasing their damage and reducing their damage taken. Tanks provide synergies for each other. Healers likewise. DDs provide them to tanks. Healers provide to tanks and DDs. This is not a game of buffing DDs. Everyone helps everyone.

All of this effort is an example of how teamwork looks like and the best way to do it has been proven mathematically and in practice by people who give you the "Youtube Builds" for free. They are not forcing you to run them. Everyone in the groups that want you to run a specific build is supporting you directly and indirectly. When you get into a trial group in ESO, you are basically carrying a huge burden that's supposed to be carried by 12 players. When you sit on the burden and watch others carry it, they will have every right to push you off of it and get someone else to help them. Learn to play as a team and for your team.

Of course there are many people who don't care about any of this "giving your best" thing and it's ok to do so. If you insist on not doing that, you should run whatever content you want with them and enjoy the game the way you like to. Just don't expect to sit on the burden if others are expecting you to give it your best.

lol/lmao a tank is a support role is all iam going to say

Show me that on an official eso document or site stated by eso representative or article from developer.

The raiding community has had the tank role be a supporting role for years now, the developers don't exactly choose the way people decide to play. The players will be the ones to figure out what works best.

Tanks debuff / buff the group because it is the most optimal thing to do, majority of people doing end game trials will want the most optimised thing to do, just because you want to disagree with them doesn't make them wrong and you shouldn't be getting "fired up" over it. Groups have requirements if you will do your own thing you will probably get replaced, it's how it goes.

I have never been replaced.
But, i did walk out of that raid.

Well that raid was clearly not for you, they had higher expectations and wanted a more optimised raid from what you have said. But going on and posting this thread and some of the replies you've said, this doesn't make you right at all. You can play how you want but it is up to the person who leads the raid how they want it to be done, some people don't care at all but some people want people to be in certain builds and classes to have a better results.

He never asked me. He could have been respectful.

Also, no build saves groups from failed mechanics.

Well in your OP you say

They all wiped from because theyre guild could not execute downstairs correctly.
Adds everywhere. Guess whonwas still standing.

As a tank with the correct build you can help downstairs by picking up the orbs
And also if you were on a DK tank you can actually chain the adds in bottom and top group and make it so they aren't everywhere. Most groups do have expectations & builds help more than you think in not failing the mechanics and making fights much easier than they have to be because you want to play it your own way

I was not the downstairs tank.

Well like I said you can chain them, but you were on a sorc tank. So they were probably running all over the place and hitting people.
I'm just letting you know why certain builds are not the greatest and why you would be hearing such things from people in the first place, cause the trial has been out for quite awhile now, most people know how to do the trial the most optimised way to make it easier by now, even the not so good groups.

You should ask yourself if it is really worth to make it harder for everyone just because you want to play a certain way and you want to run your own builds that are less efficient, you want to play classes that don't perform well as tanks and you don't want to help by debuffing / buffing your group etc. And if you do decide you want to keep doing what you are, then expect comments from people, but just remember they're not wrong in what they're saying, sure it's rude but it's also frustrating for them to get raids together and then have players doing what they please

Just dropping to mention sliver leash.

In his OP he mentions he is mostly built for mag and high mag recovery. You don't have enough stam to sustain taunting and chaining them in with the high cost

I dont mind being scrutinized. Downsta

Gnozo wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

OblivionNW wrote: »

Sorry to break your little bubble, but a Tank is a support role and supporting involves buffing the rest of your group. By not buffing them your bringing down the groups potential, Liofa and others summed it up perfectly. Its a shame you ignore every reasonable counter argument and go on ranting with everything else.

Liofa wrote: »

First of all, I wanna say that I don't support the behaviour of the raid leader of that group. It's not a good thing to mock people. It's just childish and doesn't fit the face of raiding community in ESO.

Anyway, ESO is a game where everyone in the group helps each other. Healers help tanks and DDs by restoring their resources, purging negative effects and giving them buffs and debuffing enemies. DDs help each other by utilising Major Slayer sets, buffing each other with different class passives and debuffing enemies. Tanks release pressure from healers by running self heals, help DDs by increasing their damage and reducing their damage taken. Tanks provide synergies for each other. Healers likewise. DDs provide them to tanks. Healers provide to tanks and DDs. This is not a game of buffing DDs. Everyone helps everyone.

All of this effort is an example of how teamwork looks like and the best way to do it has been proven mathematically and in practice by people who give you the "Youtube Builds" for free. They are not forcing you to run them. Everyone in the groups that want you to run a specific build is supporting you directly and indirectly. When you get into a trial group in ESO, you are basically carrying a huge burden that's supposed to be carried by 12 players. When you sit on the burden and watch others carry it, they will have every right to push you off of it and get someone else to help them. Learn to play as a team and for your team.

Of course there are many people who don't care about any of this "giving your best" thing and it's ok to do so. If you insist on not doing that, you should run whatever content you want with them and enjoy the game the way you like to. Just don't expect to sit on the burden if others are expecting you to give it your best.

Show me a tank is a "support role" from an official eso or developer article.

Just look at the sets zenimax gives us and then tell me, tank is not a support role. Even skills and passives build for tanks has a support part in it.

Pierce armor: Taunts and debuffs the Boss. (Armor debuff, more dps from group = support)
Inner fire: Taunts the boss and grants a synergy for the group (supports the group with damage)
Igneous shield: Shield and major mending for you, smaler shield for Group member (support the group with shield)
Engulfing flames: 10% more flame damage

Sets for tanking:
Ebonheart: give 1k health to everyone in group (support)
Alkosh (debuff boss more and dd can make more damage, support)
Torugs: buff that crusher and weakening glyph even more (support)

And then tank is not meant to Support? Kidding?

That would mean dps are support roles by youre own logic. Alot of buffs in the game for dps sets too,medium and light sets as well as class passives.

You still have not showed me a document or article thats states tank and or healers are support roles.

And you wont either.

In a trial group that wants progress every player should get the maximum out of his own role and zenimax gives you the tools to do so. If you refuse to use them dont come to forums to cry about players not being happy with this and kicking you out of group .

I wont make the effort on searching an official statement from ZOS only for you choosing another Argument why everyone should accept your playstyle.

Like you already mentioned, you can do whatever you want. Same goes for other players. If they want a tank wich can do both: tank and support the group they are allowed to do so. If they want to use the meta Sets they can do so. If they either got a Friend of them who told them what to run or by simply putting "eso pve tank build" into google/youtube search. They can do, whatever they want. Like you.

If you want to tank a trial with your magicka sorc frost tank then search for a Guild that doesnt have a problem with or create one yourself.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · December 2018

I recently took my warden tank, a healer and 1 DPS in and picked up a random in group finder for a vet scalecaller run.

Loaded in and the random puts in chat:

"Warden tank, we're not getting this done" and then leaves.

The title i had on at the time: Plague of Peryite, and i was wearing the Scalecaller skin.

Got another DPS in. Safe to say we steamrolled it (not HM as we were only going in for a heavy Zaan). 1 death (random DPS was late getting in the ice on the ogres) and a speed run (healer let me know).

Swear some people have to be spoon fed 2nd hand info to regurgitate at everyone or they'd still be stuck in starter zones. This is possobly a reason why Auridon is one of the most toxic zone chats on many servers.

This is not all on the players who post to YouTube.
They mostly post things to try and help the community but unless you have a specific name you just get a set of idiots talking trash in your comments.
How many vids do you see of more unique and effective setups where the comments are full of: "why not just use *insert generic set a* and *insert generic set b* ?"

The YouTube content creators are not the issue, it's the community that see it and then take it as sheer gospel to scream at anyone different is like full on cult mentality.
In the ESO community "Alcastism" is an actual gods damned religion.

Lab3360 · December 2018

OblivionNW wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

OblivionNW wrote: »

Sorry to break your little bubble, but a Tank is a support role and supporting involves buffing the rest of your group. By not buffing them your bringing down the groups potential, Liofa and others summed it up perfectly. Its a shame you ignore every reasonable counter argument and go on ranting with everything else.

Liofa wrote: »

First of all, I wanna say that I don't support the behaviour of the raid leader of that group. It's not a good thing to mock people. It's just childish and doesn't fit the face of raiding community in ESO.

Anyway, ESO is a game where everyone in the group helps each other. Healers help tanks and DDs by restoring their resources, purging negative effects and giving them buffs and debuffing enemies. DDs help each other by utilising Major Slayer sets, buffing each other with different class passives and debuffing enemies. Tanks release pressure from healers by running self heals, help DDs by increasing their damage and reducing their damage taken. Tanks provide synergies for each other. Healers likewise. DDs provide them to tanks. Healers provide to tanks and DDs. This is not a game of buffing DDs. Everyone helps everyone.

All of this effort is an example of how teamwork looks like and the best way to do it has been proven mathematically and in practice by people who give you the "Youtube Builds" for free. They are not forcing you to run them. Everyone in the groups that want you to run a specific build is supporting you directly and indirectly. When you get into a trial group in ESO, you are basically carrying a huge burden that's supposed to be carried by 12 players. When you sit on the burden and watch others carry it, they will have every right to push you off of it and get someone else to help them. Learn to play as a team and for your team.

Of course there are many people who don't care about any of this "giving your best" thing and it's ok to do so. If you insist on not doing that, you should run whatever content you want with them and enjoy the game the way you like to. Just don't expect to sit on the burden if others are expecting you to give it your best.

lol/lmao a tank is a support role is all iam going to say

Show me that on an official eso document or site stated by eso representative or article from developer.

Yeah let me just look at all those official game documents, oh wait there are none. Tanks have always been support roles in ESO whether you like it or not, tank sets have been designed around buffing your group and if you can't believe that I don't know what to say to you.

No, you just find peoole who are willing to bend to you. So these tanks and healer who actually want to contribute will do anything to run with you. But given a chance they would like to contribute in there own accord.

Its the not having a chouce in a game that is suppose to be all about choice that fires me up..all while willy nilly dps can run whatever.

F that.

Skoomah · December 2018

Tank is a support role? Everyone supports everyone. Tanks are irreplaceable for high end content.

Please stop with the discrimination against tanks.

Baconlad · December 2018

My 2cents.

The game has varying levels of difficulty. And while almost any tank setup can complete most content. This game is NOT about simply completing content. In PVE you have the option of competing against many other groups for the top spots on leaderboards...hell even a team going for worlds best scores. These teams require that every single player in the group has the absolute perfect gear and armors, skill slotted, buffed and player skill level. In these cases...no, your sorc tank would not take the cake. You wouldn't be laughed at, you just wouldn't be invited to train with them.

It's not elitism. It that they, through trial and error KNOW what's best. Like it or not there IS a meta.

In your case OP, not trying to go for top spots, you get to play what works just to complete the content. No harm no foul, that's YOUR goal and there's nothing wrong with that. Funny that a subpar player would throw a hissy fit about you not being in a build designed for content you don't care for...whatever. sucks to be him, he must get mad alot...

Years ago I played a magicka templar heal tank, I used to duo with a DD magblade. We'd take on four man hard modes alone...back when it meant something to be able to do. Hah... I even remember the build, healers habit and seducers heavy armor...so fun...anyway...GL

xxthir13enxx · December 2018

Please, Like and Subscribe to my Channel!

Jk’n I don’t YT

Valencer · December 2018

So wait, you're saying the only thing that matters for tanks is 1) Keeping the boss taunted and pointed away from the group and 2) staying alive?

If that's fun to you then who am I to tell you otherwise. You're definitely handicapping your group though

Jakx · December 2018

I see the "I play my own build and not the meta" a lot when queing in with randoms too. Most of the time that means they do 10k dps at best and I carry as they spam their bow abilities like the Legolas-roleplayer they are. So please go to the youtube videos and copy them because the game as a whole will be better.

As for the outlier case that someone has a weird viable build that gets trashed upon. Thats unfortunate but the more common experience is the one I share so people will make the assumption you fall into that category. You have to prove them wrong. Though as someone mentioned a few posts up.. there is a meta.. like it or not.. so sure you might be able to complete the content but you wont be pushing top spots or even doing it in the most efficient manner. Grats for being different but most people want the efficiency.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · December 2018

Valencer wrote: »

So wait, you're saying the only thing that matters for tanks is 1) Keeping the boss taunted and pointed away from the group and 2) staying alive?

If that's fun to you then who am I to tell you otherwise. You're definitely handicapping your group though

They would be key factors 1 and 2 of tanking. You don't keep taunt and the boss splats the squishies. You don't stay alive and the boss splats the squishies.

Beyond this though there are many ways a tank can support and on that we agree.

I main a Warden tank and so i am now the source of minor toughness. I main tank AND off heal any content i'm in because of this.
My setup reflects this. With a pot up i have 2200 mag recovery. My polar winds will burst heal any DPS to full as needed and lotus means my light and heavy attacks keep the minor toughness up time.

I also have an ulti spam sorc tank i have rocked in vet trials. I know that my resistance buff can help provide off balance. I know that my 165 cost warhorn with high ultimate generation can basically free a healer to slot a different ult and still keep up warhorn uptime no issues.
We've had it where a warden healer can Slot trees and master architect because of that.

The way specific groups use their tanks to support is great, but they're not the "only" way.
The issue is people run ultra specific setups because they're told it's BiS but don't know how to tailor setup to group for any given content.

I gave a guildie both barrels because they took an alkosh and ebon tank to a no death Falkreath with 3 magblades. Magblades are nukes but don't have many (if any) synergy options. Their response was that Alkosh was "bis" for tanks.
Again, this is literally 2nd hand information being applied to everything without thought.

Arciris · December 2018

I agree that "YouTube builds" are not everything and humiliate/kick people for being "creative" is not the way to go.
However, taking it on the people who put in the time and effort to share those builds is, in my opinion, just as toxic.

Tanking role in ESO is opened to a lot of freedom, and everything is viable depending on the context:

PUG group for normal or vanilla vet 4 man? > go DPS oriented as you don't know what to expect and you can't be sure you're getting the support you otherwise need or that your own support is going to make a difference.

Progression group/learning new DLC dungeon?: support your group by offering the most survability possible to your party, worry about buffing DPS later.

Optimized trial group: you need to be optimized yourself and provide to the group whatever they think is more relevant.

The Tanking role is ESO is so blurry that sets that were meant to be used by DD's (like Alkosh) are now "set in stone" to be Tank gear, and that can be confusing to some people.
The meta for Tanks is only to be used with all meta groups, otherwise you're better off with something else, as long as everyone understands this, we're all good

As for not sharing trial score pushing configurations, I don't think it's meant to keep it a secret but more because "YouTube builds" have a broader audience and those builds are just the safe and effective way to get the job done for a specific content.

edit: typos

kylewwefan · December 2018

Isn’t Sirroria/ Mother Sorrow / Zaan still the best setup for practically every magic DD build? Relequen/ AY/ Monster Set for Stam?

I don’t get it. Maybe some swap out Spell strategist with Mother Sorrow. I’m on console. The meta builds, (Youtube builds) have a lot of power. Someone already tested these things with tools unavailable to us.

Now, when you get into tanks and healers, things change. There’s much more room to test things out. If all your looking for is a complete, many different things can work.

DD can really shoot yourself in the foot trying things out. Many things you might think should work, are really bad.

PvP even more so. Bone Pirate, 7th Legion, Monster Set has been pretty freaking good for me. And you know, changing CP, wearing all Impen, Troll King, going 2H instead of DW. Maybe it’s meta? Maybe just a great beginner setup? I’ve no clue? Is it better than Hundings Bone Pirate? Sure does seem that way to me.

Builds carry hard in PvP. Every little thing adds up.

Jaimeh · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

This idea that only builds from youtube From Alcast and Asian are the only builds that can work in the game, is an assertion of idiocy.

I cant believe how infected the community has become by this idea.
There are sooo many different ways to reach the dps, healing and tanking in this game people.

We really need to turn this around. I recently had some guy tell me in Cloudrest that my tank build was a trash build and I should off tank. I was on with a Sorc Magika Tank with frost staff. He mocked me while I was off mic as he said "I want to be different and not use a build from youtube" (voiced in sarcastic non masculine voice)

I was flabbergasted by the sheer stupidity of this guild leader. I then mic'ed up and asked him, "why is this a trash build?"

He responded, "how are you going to taunt when you get interrupted with staff HA?" I responded, "Um inner fire"

He then asked, "when you run out of magika?" I said "I dont because my recover is at 1800 and I have tri pots and conversion"

Then the last thing I said to him was this,

"Youre an idiot who is incapable of thinking for yourself. You should listen to how stupid you sound when you say that a "Youtube Build" is the only way to get the job done. I feel sorry for youre guild because you hold them back.

My builds are better than youtube.
They all wiped from because theyre guild could not execute downstairs correctly.
Adds everywhere. Guess whonwas still standing.

I ended it with this, I could pick you up. But Inwont tank for an idiot.

Then I left.

Guys, Gals, if you are going to watch youtube, please study "The where" and "The Why" something works. Analyze the build in separate elements. The builds are for illustrative purposesonly.
Not one Youtube says this is the only way.

I have seen a lot of builds from people who value theyre builds soo much, they refuse to put the build on youtube. Its okay to think for yourself. Its okay to design youre own build as long as it is effective .

OP, from the way you describe what happened, it seems that you were the one to reference YT builds, not them. They never said to use a YT build, unless you didn't write the full exchange, so it's not apparent were the disdain for these sites comes from, at least from this particular encounter.

Anyway, if your build works well for what you are trying to do, then just keep using it, even if it's not what's usually recommended in these build sites, unless a change is needed for a specific fight, or it's going to help the group. Having said that, I think it's great that sites like Alcast's exist, as well as various YT channels with build suggesions--they are very helpful for players who don't have a lot of time to theorycraft, and just want something that is guarranteed to work. Maybe there are better builds out there, but it's a good reference point, and from there onwards a person can test, customize, and look up other ideas as well, if they have the time and inclination.

kathandira · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

This idea that only builds from youtube From Alcast and Asian are the only builds that can work in the game, is an assertion of idiocy.

I cant believe how infected the community has become by this idea.
There are sooo many different ways to reach the dps, healing and tanking in this game people.

We really need to turn this around. I recently had some guy tell me in Cloudrest that my tank build was a trash build and I should off tank. I was on with a Sorc Magika Tank with frost staff. He mocked me while I was off mic as he said "I want to be different and not use a build from youtube" (voiced in sarcastic non masculine voice)

I was flabbergasted by the sheer stupidity of this guild leader. I then mic'ed up and asked him, "why is this a trash build?"

He responded, "how are you going to taunt when you get interrupted with staff HA?" I responded, "Um inner fire"

He then asked, "when you run out of magika?" I said "I dont because my recover is at 1800 and I have tri pots and conversion"

Then the last thing I said to him was this,

"Youre an idiot who is incapable of thinking for yourself. You should listen to how stupid you sound when you say that a "Youtube Build" is the only way to get the job done. I feel sorry for youre guild because you hold them back.

My builds are better than youtube.
They all wiped from because theyre guild could not execute downstairs correctly.
Adds everywhere. Guess whonwas still standing.

I ended it with this, I could pick you up. But Inwont tank for an idiot.

Then I left.

Guys, Gals, if you are going to watch youtube, please study "The where" and "The Why" something works. Analyze the build in separate elements. The builds are for illustrative purposesonly.
Not one Youtube says this is the only way.

I have seen a lot of builds from people who value theyre builds soo much, they refuse to put the build on youtube. Its okay to think for yourself. Its okay to design youre own build as long as it is effective .

You should refrain from such a high sodium diet. It's bad for your heart. j/k

Seriously though, who cares? Do you, ignore the elitists. You don't need to get into a snippy argument with random people on the internet. If they give you crap like they did, just up and leave, and block the player. Much easier, and they will get the message.

Mureel · December 2018

LordGavus wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

LordGavus wrote: »

Yeah some people are clowns.

My friend got kicked from a vet scalecaller peak run for using a frost tank. He was wearing the peak scaler title at the time

Are you FN kidding me?

I wish. Before the first pull they said "ice tanks are useless"
He responded with "I've done this a bunch of times, I'm even wearing the title now"
They said no and kicked him.

Its not even that uncommon of a build,
Snb front, staff back.

I am s&b / s& b and I recently have been thinking of lvling ice staff tbh!

I don't know how it all works with ice staff yet - but I want to just try it out!

kathandira · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

And yes, I am aggressive. Im going to be aggressive when it come to this topic. Someone has to stand up. Too many people being bullied because of
Youtube Buildz.

Out of genuine curiosity, where do you have this problem? I admit, I don't play with randoms too often. I play with my guild, and occasionally pick up a random to fill a slot. I really don't have this problem.

I personally do use Alcast as a reference to some good ideas, but then I make small adjustments to make it my own. That said, if someone is not following such a guide, and can explain why their build works for them, i'm happy to play with them as they have put thought and effort into their build. So long as it holds up the bare minimum performance, I am more than happy to run with that person. I feel my guild mates also have the same mentality.

Are you playing on PC, PS4, or Xbox? Also, do you mostly run with PuGs, or mostly with your guild? I've very curious to see how you end up with jerks like you described.

DjMuscleboy02 · December 2018

Ok...I'll start this by responding to @Tasear question about when does it become being a burden; You become a burden when you are contributing significantly less than your group mates. If you queue and get 3 very experienced players who are all putting out 50k in a dungeon but you're only doing like 10k (assuming 4 dps), you're a burden, sorry. They may not mind, they may not say anything or even notice, but that's when you're a burden; an extreme example. This same principle can be used in raid. If your group is progressing and you cannot stay alive because you're running two frost staves (or whatever you may be running, this is not particularly in reference to op) then you're a burden and should consider changing your setup.

Anyway, moving on. I keep reading comments looping back to three big things.
- Cheesing Trials
- Being more receptive to "non-meta" builds
- Toxic Elitists

The first point, Cheesing Trials, is laughable. Trials are the situation these players build for. I genuinely don't understand the comment from @Lab3360 about how healers and tanks shouldn't be buffing the group. How can you think that? If you're referring to progression groups, then sure I can see where you're coming from. But in the context, I'm lead to believe you mean in top groups that push score, support don't need to debuff. What are they meant to do then? The reason support debuff is because, in skilled groups, you actually don't take very much damage. Good DPS players simply avoid damage, leaving much more time for support to dps themselves or debuff the enemy rather than spamming healing on the group. I fail to see what's more beneficial than a healer, for example, giving a minor vulnerability debuff. You'll have 8 people doing 8% more damage to the boss, that's more significant than anything else a healer would do. Now if we flip that, not every group can avoid damage as well, so yes I would agree with you that you would need to debuff less and maybe consider having a dps help in that situation.

The second point on "non-meta" builds is also pretty simple. Very few top players will tell you that you have to run a certain setup. It truly depends on what you're doing. If you're having fun and just joining a pug, or running dungeons, etc then sure you may run whatever you like. Where it becomes an issue, however, is when you cannot complete content. And frankly it doesn't matter if it's you or not that's the cause. For example, let's say your tank build uses Plague Doctor and Green Pact. Awesome, that's a great setup for survival and you'll most likely do fine. But if your DPS are dying, maybe you should consider putting on Ebon to help, after all you're doing fine and they're suffering a little bit so it's probably to the group's benefit that you switch up your gear. Without going into an even bigger wall of text on this, the simple fact of the matter is that once you hit accept group, what you personally want doesn't really matter anymore. You're part of a team now and should put the needs of the team above your own desires. (Again, there are always situations in which you can play how you want.) There is nothing wrong with wearing non-meta setups, but you should focus less on becoming defensive about your setup and more on being a team player; especially if you're in someone else's group.

Toxic Elitists are going to be something you'll have to deal with in pretty much everything, be it eso, other video games, even the workplace. Most people you meet are going to be willing to help you, be patient, or at least tolerate whatever it is you're doing. However you will always meet people who are thick headed, set in their ways, having a bad day, etc. I really don't know what to tell you about that, you just need to have thicker skin honestly. Not everyone is going to be your friend and you can't come crying to forums anytime someone disagrees with your methods. If you get kicked, you get kicked, that's life. If you're kicked multiple times for the same thing, well maybe it's not other people who need changing.

Follow up thoughts:
I think a lot of this can be summed up by saying that I don't necessarily think that there's any problem here. I think that there's less of an issue with people being elitist and more of an issue with people failing to think critically. If you put Hodor, MC, or any of the other top groups in non-meta setups they would do absolutely fine. They would probably still put up some outrageous scores - Would they be the best possible score? No. Your build will only get you so far. Bluntly put, most players simply aren't as skilled as they would like to think they are. Nightblades are currently the meta, and a lot of other classes get ripped a lot by "elitists" but I can promise you that if you took any player from Hodor and gave them an afternoon on a non-meta class, they would outparse almost every nightblade in most other groups in raid that night.

Lab3360 · December 2018

Skoomah wrote: »

Tank is a support role? Everyone supports everyone. Tanks are irreplaceable for high end content.

Please stop with the discrimination against tanks.

What they are saying really is this:

"Every role whio is not dps is here to support dps. Youre not a real role. Youre a support role.

DjMuscleboy02 · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Tank is a support role? Everyone supports everyone. Tanks are irreplaceable for high end content.

Please stop with the discrimination against tanks.

What they are saying really is this:

"Every role whio is not dps is here to support dps. Youre not a real role. Youre a support role.

What else is a tank going to do? An experienced tank can debuff/allow DPS to do more damage without compromising themselves. That's what makes a skilled tank skilled. The ability to find the line between survival and making the DPS as strong as possible.

royo · December 2018

People should stop using leaderboard builds and tactics in non-leaderboard situations and most of these problems would go away.

Ohtimbar · December 2018

I find it funny when people act like creating builds for an mmo is rocket science. It's all plug 'n play, connect the dots regardless of where it came from. People want what Alcast, et al are offering so good for them. It's not my thing, but whatevs.

kathandira · December 2018

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

That's what makes a skilled tank skilled. The ability to find the line between survival and making the DPS as strong as possible.

Same applies to a healer imo.

My healer focuses on Healing and Buffing the DPS. I can't heal a boss to death, and a tank can't tank a boss to death. So outside of their main role as a healer or a tank, they should be contributing to increasing the groups DPS and Defenses to get the job done faster and better.

Lab3360 · December 2018

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Tank is a support role? Everyone supports everyone. Tanks are irreplaceable for high end content.

Please stop with the discrimination against tanks.

What they are saying really is this:

"Every role whio is not dps is here to support dps. Youre not a real role. Youre a support role.

What else is a tank going to do? An experienced tank can debuff/allow DPS to do more damage without compromising themselves. That's what makes a skilled tank skilled. The ability to find the line between survival and making the DPS as strong as possible.

Thats not a tanks job. And it has never been a tanks job traditionally in mmos.
I feel that is just watering down tanks and healers.

I have worn Alkosh, Ebon, Torugs in content I am very comfortable. I have a Nb Tank Health, Dk Tank Health, Sorc Tank Magika, Templar Health Magika,

What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.

kathandira · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.

mitigate damage for the group - Support

weaken boss damage - Support

crowd control - Support

Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.

Nifty2g · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Tank is a support role? Everyone supports everyone. Tanks are irreplaceable for high end content.

Please stop with the discrimination against tanks.

What they are saying really is this:

"Every role whio is not dps is here to support dps. Youre not a real role. Youre a support role.

What else is a tank going to do? An experienced tank can debuff/allow DPS to do more damage without compromising themselves. That's what makes a skilled tank skilled. The ability to find the line between survival and making the DPS as strong as possible.

Thats not a tanks job. And it has never been a tanks job traditionally in mmos.
I feel that is just watering down tanks and healers.

I have worn Alkosh, Ebon, Torugs in content I am very comfortable. I have a Nb Tank Health, Dk Tank Health, Sorc Tank Magika, Templar Health Magika,

What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.

Are you saying you can only do one of those at a time, why can't you mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team AND debuff a boss while also buffing your group

Lab3360 · December 2018

royo wrote: »

People should stop using leaderboard builds and tactics in non-leaderboard situations and most of these problems would go away.

They cant. They are dps crazy bro.
Its ridiculous. I have never seen this in 40+ years of gaming and mmos.

Healers and tanks are like 2nd rate to dps in this game. They say support youre team when really they mean help me dps more.
Please put on that medium dps set to help me dps more. Healer put in that buff set to help dps more.

Nifty2g · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

royo wrote: »

People should stop using leaderboard builds and tactics in non-leaderboard situations and most of these problems would go away.

Healers and tanks are like 2nd rate to dps in this game. They say support youre team when really they mean help me dps more.
Please put on that medium dps set to help me dps more. Healer put in that buff set to help dps more.

You want to know why people say that as if it wasn't clear from some of the replies in this thread, they say that because you can heal or tank just as efficiently and keep your group alive and yourself alive with those sets, so it's a question of why not do that, is it because you have never seen this in "40 years of gaming and mmo's", isn't this a case of times change, and games are different than one another? ESO's combat allows some pretty cool stuff to be done

Lab3360 · December 2018

kathandira wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.

mitigate damage for the group - Support

weaken boss damage - Support

crowd control - Support

Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.

As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.

DjMuscleboy02 · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Tank is a support role? Everyone supports everyone. Tanks are irreplaceable for high end content.

Please stop with the discrimination against tanks.

What they are saying really is this:

"Every role whio is not dps is here to support dps. Youre not a real role. Youre a support role.

What else is a tank going to do? An experienced tank can debuff/allow DPS to do more damage without compromising themselves. That's what makes a skilled tank skilled. The ability to find the line between survival and making the DPS as strong as possible.

Thats not a tanks job. And it has never been a tanks job traditionally in mmos.
I feel that is just watering down tanks and healers.

I have worn Alkosh, Ebon, Torugs in content I am very comfortable. I have a Nb Tank Health, Dk Tank Health, Sorc Tank Magika, Templar Health Magika,

What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.

At this point, I can't tell if you're trolling or just don't comprehend what I'm saying. It's watering down tanks and healers to expect them to do more than stand there doing nothing? Sorry if I expect the players in my group to perform at a high level and to be capable of performing more than 1 task at a time. This isn't "traditional mmos," it's a different game. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you're Eso Daily with all this nonsense about 40 years of gaming.

Odovacar · December 2018

I think a lot of newer players get hooked or stuck on the said youtuber builds because vets (I'm guilty too) don't have all the time in the world to explain every waking detail to the players who seek our in-game help. So for me at least, if I feel I don't have enough time or a clear line of communication with a player asking questions (usually randoms) we direct them to Alcast or whatever so we don't feel like we've abandoned them.

I do however, appreciate the ones who make YT videos and websites to help the new player base, because when you first come in, specifically if you don't know anyone, ESO can be quite daunting.

kathandira · December 2018

Lab3360 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Lab3360 wrote: »

What else can a tank do? Tanks can do a lot to mitigate damage for the group, crowd control, taunt and position boss and adds, weaken boss damage, pick up team.

mitigate damage for the group - Support

weaken boss damage - Support

crowd control - Support

Just add a DPS buff in there, and you are doing exactly what people are saying tanks do.

As soon as you support the tank and healer with their jobs. No problem. Fair is fair.

I am the healer =p I support the Tank and DPS and Healers with buffs to their sustain, DPS, and mitigation.

Olorime and Worm Cult (Increased Spell Damage & Reduced Magicka Cost). I use Luminous Shards for the Melee/Tank and Orbs for the Ranged. I use Combat Prayer on the Melee and Tank to increase their DPS and Mitigation. I use Extended Ritual for Purify. I use Siphon Spirit also for Sustain and Healing.

My job is to support everyone, and keep them alive.