Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You got one box, per alt, per day, max.

That's really the problem, in my opinion, when coupled with the poor performances of the activity finder; as it works right now they should have limited the mystery box to once per day (as in, once every 24 hours with the reset at a fixed time) per account

Some of these players really seem like the type of people that would run their random in a pre-made group and then que for a random and set the dungeon they wanted on a DLC dungeon to stop other players from getting a reward box. Isn't that called griefing and isn't that against the ToS?

Nice guys finish last

Mureel wrote: »

macsmooth wrote: »

The issue is that fungal dungeon is the easiest fastest run dungeon it’s the reason that everyone goes to that dungeon first but is the most annoying run I have

Fungal 1 is designed so you can skip bosses 3 & 4 which annoys me because It’s the one dungeon I probably don’t have the all bosses achievements because people just keep skipping these bosses

Fungal 2 is just as bad because people skip boss 3 all the time so again no achievements there for my characters

The solution is simple block the jump up area and make it so if you jump in the water the only way back up is either near to where they jump off or you have to go all the way back to the beginning and run back and also make the pledge count bosses 3 & 4 in to the pledge so they can’t be skipped

Boss 3 is actually an interesting fight as you have to not kill adds to make the boss die faster so it a good test of skill for the group

But the issue is that it’s a quick dungeon to do because you can skip half the map

Just solo it ffs. is FG 1.

First of all there is no need to swear at another person on this forum that makes a comment, that is disrespectful and show the lack of being able to communicate in a positive manner

Secondly I never said I was unable to solo this dungeon I can solo it fine on normal it’s a cakewalk but that’s where it will lead me to my other point

If you knew anything about boss achievements you would know that it is only achievable on vet content and while I can solo these two dungeons on some of my characters I won’t be able to on all of them as if you knew the mechanics of these dungeons boss 2 on vet 2 requires good timing to do solo

But this would make me believe that if I had the unfortunate pug grouping with you that I would be the one who has to carry you through your very first vet dungeon

Since my statement was about the mechanics of these dungeons and not about being able to solo them or not

Again there is never any warrant to swear at another person on the forums

therift wrote: »

The best answer I read came from another thread on this topic. Wish I could find it to give the poster proper credit:

"You were trying to cross the street during a parade"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgpV1W6QTH0

Arciris wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

When a bug is abused by so many players, it becomes impossible to discipline.

I don't want to see anyone banned, but I think the way people are justifying abusing this bug speaks to why Western civilization is approaching a crisis. We have become experts at justifying all the improper things we do.

Abuse it all you like, but stop deluding yourselves into believing it might be intended.

I actually LOL’d at this. Now porting to FG1 has gone from maybe an exploit to the reason for the downfall of western civilization. Well that escalated quickly.

Actually, @zk is pretty damned astute here.

There's nothing particularly special about finding a workaround in the system in order to get rewards for something you didn't actually do. It's not good, but it's in the realms of normal human nature.

It's all the justification as to how people who do this aren't exploiting, Heck, they're not just trying to assert that they've done nothing wrong; they're making themselves the victims, the heroes, and anyone who has the audacity to suggest maybe you ought to just do the event the way it was intended is the villain of the story.

And that's a really excellent reflection, in microcosm, of the current crises in human society right now.

The thing here is that not one thread was opened to state it wasn't an exploit. However, several threads were opened asking for some sort of punishment for those who "exploited".

Since only ZOS can define in their created virtual/fantasy world what is an exploit or is not (just look at what happened with Animation Canceling), people are simply surprised that some people decided to:
1. Outright define it as an exploit.
2. From that premise that it is an exploit, they are asking, almost demanding,that people should be punished for it.

Maybe what is symptomatic of that so called crisis (not sure this is a new phenomenon anyway) in the Western culture. is that some people think they are the chosen ones who can define what is right and what is wrong, with absolute certainty.
And not only do they think in absolute terms they are absolutely right(eous), they also seem to think that whomever doesn't abide by their vision of the world should be punished, and the harsher the better.

It's the "pitch and forks, burn'em all witches!" mentality that is frightening in my opinion.
Not the people saying "yeah, it might be an exploit, but it's a completely harmless one so no need to be draconian about it"

On one side you have the minds that only deal with absolutes and are strictly intolerant about the other side, trying to enforce their position by ... force (punishment)

On the other side you have the minds that deal with complex realities and try to add relativism and nuances to the black/white vision of the world, accepting doubt as a natural part of the human condition.

Well, you're right about one thing, at least. There's nothing particularly current or new about Straw Man arguments.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

As I read all I see here are upset people that haven't gone with the easy route, where the ones that went for it did not suffer any consequences.

Picture this. You join a marathon and just as the race starts the racer next to you runs over to the go-kart track located nearby and completes a single lap. The judges hand him the first place trophy for the marathon along with the $20,000 cash prize.

Do you really not see a problem here?

Aside from your flawed analogy and overblown reward implication?

The problem isn't go-cart tracks. The problem is, some people got to run a 26 Mile marathon, others got to run 5k, some had to run a 100 mile desert rally, others simply got to walk down the block.

Some of those got the starting gun right away, others had to wait 20 minutes, some couldn't even get to the starting line. Factor in the relay race aspect and it makes a difference if you got paired up with Olympians and Triathletes, average individuals that run at the gym, or you got paired up with the local elementary school's finest, hand picked off the playground.

Furthermore, there is no trophy for 'winning.' Everyone crossing the finish line gets the trophy (it's still a completion trophy, not a participation one) and everyone gets the same prize money.

If you flip it around, groups that got unclearable dungeons within their group would never have the option to get anything other than some arbitrary amount of time to 'rest' between marathon attempts. (Brick wall time in current dungeon, find a replacement time in current dungeon, subsequent 'someone declined' time in follow up dungeon, after the potential queue penalty time from departing.)

You got one box, per alt, per day, max. There was never going to be any more reward than that, no matter what you did, or how you did it. You could run all the follow-up marathons you liked, it wasn't going to change the final prize.

Wrong starting point. You and he were selected to do the marathon. Neither of you were in the queue anymore. You participated in the event while he just ran over to the easy track and got rewarded for doing it.

I don't give a crap who got what race or how long the races were going to take or how long they had to wait in line for it. The point is he was still rewarded after violating the rules and spirit of the event.

Now, are you going to address the problem or are you going to continue to deny that there is one?

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

As I read all I see here are upset people that haven't gone with the easy route, where the ones that went for it did not suffer any consequences.

Picture this. You join a marathon and just as the race starts the racer next to you runs over to the go-kart track located nearby and completes a single lap. The judges hand him the first place trophy for the marathon along with the $20,000 cash prize.

Do you really not see a problem here?

Aside from your flawed analogy and overblown reward implication?

The problem isn't go-cart tracks. The problem is, some people got to run a 26 Mile marathon, others got to run 5k, some had to run a 100 mile desert rally, others simply got to walk down the block.

Some of those got the starting gun right away, others had to wait 20 minutes, some couldn't even get to the starting line. Factor in the relay race aspect and it makes a difference if you got paired up with Olympians and Triathletes, average individuals that run at the gym, or you got paired up with the local elementary school's finest, hand picked off the playground.

Furthermore, there is no trophy for 'winning.' Everyone crossing the finish line gets the trophy (it's still a completion trophy, not a participation one) and everyone gets the same prize money.

If you flip it around, groups that got unclearable dungeons within their group would never have the option to get anything other than some arbitrary amount of time to 'rest' between marathon attempts. (Brick wall time in current dungeon, find a replacement time in current dungeon, subsequent 'someone declined' time in follow up dungeon, after the potential queue penalty time from departing.)

You got one box, per alt, per day, max. There was never going to be any more reward than that, no matter what you did, or how you did it. You could run all the follow-up marathons you liked, it wasn't going to change the final prize.

Your right the problem isn't the go carts. The problem is (keeping with the analogy) some people signed up for a marathon, showed up for a marathon then on race day are told sorry today we are going on a jog to the corner and back. They don't care about the reward for running to the corner and back. They don't want to run to the corner and back and they don't want to sign up for another marathon later hoping it won't be a run to the corner and back also.

For me it isn't the switching dungeons for the reward that is the problem. The problem is doing it while a member of a random group. If you wanted to switch you should have used zone chat to find others that also wanted to take that option.

It's not an exploit.

We are truly blessed when these are the biggest problems plaguing our lives.

Mureel wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nothing.

But it would be nice of ZOS to give those who did not engage in the FG nonsense a choice drop.

and those who went along with whatever the group was doing? which means sometimes it would be full run of City of Ash 2 (I had several of those over the course of event, got some skillpoints for alts too, which is nice) and sometimes it would be "the nonsense". and what about that times when group would legitimately zone into fungal grotto as the actual random dungeon? (happened to me several times over the course of the event as well) how do they even tell the difference? or what about groups that did not port to fungal grotto but rather to whatever daily pledge was? which could be and sometime was much more difficult and longer then original dungeon they got dropped into.

honestly the biggest problem here is that there are people that I fit into the category of "this is why we cannot have nice things"
you know.. the ones springing the fungal grotto on a group - with no communication, no asking if all agree, getting angry when not everyone in a group wants to follow along. THEY are the biggest toxic problem, ruining it for everyone else, basically.

AGREE 100%!

incidentally - city of Ash 2 is... fascinating on a vampire. especially that "skip a bunch of trash by swimming through lava" shortcut >_> but seriously. I understand wanting to save time, this is why I had/seen multiple groups in multiple guilds cycling through various alts, just forming up over and over for pretty much the duration of the event. I do NOT however like or enjoy people who expect strangers to just.. go along with it as well.all I'm saying - ask the group, if they say yes, go forth, if they say no, we want to do the dungeon we got.. then you do the dungeon you got.

Glurin wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

As I read all I see here are upset people that haven't gone with the easy route, where the ones that went for it did not suffer any consequences.

Picture this. You join a marathon and just as the race starts the racer next to you runs over to the go-kart track located nearby and completes a single lap. The judges hand him the first place trophy for the marathon along with the $20,000 cash prize.

Do you really not see a problem here?

no, becasue your example is flawed. in case of undaunted event you get the same exact reward for finishing marathon properly. everyone gets a reward. you are NOT denied one. the only problem is when a go cart runner forcibly drags those who want to actualy run the marathon - into a go cart with them. THAT is a problem. everything else? is inconsequential. does it matter if people cheese the queue by using low level characters. or if they cheese it by porting. as long as they are doing it in a group where everyone has consented, the result is functionally the same.

picture this scenario. the fungal grotto run around get hot fixed. so now people do this little trick for the next event assuming it will again involve random daily. group up for a premade. except your 4th is an alt account of one of the people in a premade that is exactly lvl 10 which means you will ONLY get fungal grotto. queue goes through, lowbie character gets kicked from the group (to keep them lvl 10 and to prevent queue cooldown) and the 3 proceed to slam through fungal as normal. what do you do then? disallow grouping between high and low level character? that messes up with random que, give cooldown to a kicked person - not only does that punish actual victims of jerks and encourages some serious trolling, but it can also be easily circumvented by having several lvl 10 characters to cycle through. moralize about how people are terrible for cheating? well.. people are only using the system they are presented to their most effective.

so I reiterate. the ONLY problem here, genuine problem is people who spring FG1 on unsuspecting party of random players that did not consent to it and/or insult them for not going along. THAT is a problem. everything else? is just "how dare they get something faster then I did????"

Facefister wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

1. I couldn't find dungeons first day due to group finder broken
2. I couldn't get into game second day due to steam login problem
3. Even all these things I did not follow group members when they tp to fungal grotto because from my point of view it is wrong
4. I waited for 15 minutes to re-queue while these people finished their map and entered another fg1.
5. My precious time for finding a dungeon + loading screens + inside dungeon + queue + loading screens lost.

Clearly why I am the problem here? Why I am called the toxic in the community?

I reported those people tp to fg. If they are doing nothing wrong, then am I abusing the report system?

Until ZOS comes out and says that this is not the intended functionality, it is fair game. For better or for worse.

Some GM on the german forums already stated that it isn't intentional but they also wont take any steps against the "exploiters"

Official Zos Response from German forum

sudaki_eso wrote: »

This discussion is still going on? Why is here no offical response like we got in the german forum which would end this discussion in seconds?

This is what ZOS said about it:

Das ist sicher nicht im Sinne des Erfinders, wie man so schön sagt. Allerdings verstehe ich auch, wenn jemand z.B. in der Mittagspause oder bei begrenzter Zeit im Spiel unglücklich ist, wenn er bei Zufallsverliesen eines der komplizierteren oder längerwierigeren zugewiesen bekommt.

Ich sehe keinen Grund, das zu ahnden aber vielleicht können wir es spieltechnisch für die Zukunft unterbinden.

In english:

That is certainly not in the sense of the inventor, as the saying goes. However, I also understand when someone, e.g. is unhappy in the lunch break or limited time in the game, when he gets assigned to one of the more complicated or longer-lasting random dungeons.

I see no reason to punish this, but maybe we can stop it for the future.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/5646569/#Comment_5646569

That is certainly not in the sense of the inventor, as the saying goes. However, I also understand when someone, e.g. is unhappy in the lunch break or limited time in the game, when he gets assigned to one of the more complicated or longer-lasting random dungeons.

I see no reason to punish this, but maybe we can stop it for the future.

Complaint: when we all port into the random dungeon and it’s a dlc everyonejust leaves immediately. FIX THIS ZOS!



Complaint: when we all port into the random dungeon and it’s a dlc everyone asks to do an easier dungeon.





Can’t butter someone else’s bread from the inside buddy.

kargen27 wrote: »

Your right the problem isn't the go carts. The problem is (keeping with the analogy) some people signed up for a marathon, showed up for a marathon then on race day are told sorry today we are going on a jog to the corner and back. They don't care about the reward for running to the corner and back. They don't want to run to the corner and back and they don't want to sign up for another marathon later hoping it won't be a run to the corner and back also.

For me it isn't the switching dungeons for the reward that is the problem. The problem is doing it while a member of a random group. If you wanted to switch you should have used zone chat to find others that also wanted to take that option.

That is a terrible analogy, apparently you don't know how analogies work, either. You didn't sign up for a marathon. Hello!!! it's called a random for a reason. You signed up for one of several possible dungeons. You know, it's random what you get. And IMO, if you select a curtain dungeon, you should not be put in the que with regular random quers. You should have to wait for three other people who want to run "that" dungeon because the other people signed up for a random and guess what they are not getting what they signed up for because of you. There were other players that ran their random and then qued for randoms with DLC dungeons selected, just to grief other players and keep them from getting rewards or making it take longer to get those rewards. Some of this was to try and keep the prices high on the Motifs. So, should they be perma banned? Fair is fair, right? I do however agree with the very last thing you said, if you are intending to switch no matter what, they yes, they should put together a group on their own for it or at the very least ask. However, I fully understand switching on DLC dungeons, some players may not be ready for those.