Random Dungeon: Is tp to another dungeon (eg: Fungal Grotto) an exploit/cheat?

kylewwefan · December 2018

If it’s in the game. And it works. But you “feel” like it shouldn’t work because of some moral dilemma...it’s a feature. Not an exploit.

Like the dummy guild traders. It’s a feature. Animation cancelling, undoubtedly a feature. Dropping some factions scroll in the water or lava, so it can’t be retrieved. Feature. Controlling empty campaigns to get emperor achievements. It’s part of the game.

They’ll let you know if you’re doing something wrong or bad.

Some trial exploits have been dubbed exploit by the devs. There’s no official word on this. It must be ok. Wish I had known about it a long time ago. It really doesn’t matter at this point.

This world is your oyster. What would you do with it.

Arciris · December 2018

In my opinion, an exploit is when you use a loophole in the system to achieve a result that you wouldn't be able to achieve otherwise.
A cheat is when you use an obvious flaw/bug or even external software to achieve any result that is favorable to you.

Example:
If you are not able to finish Crypt of hearts II on normal difficulty and port to Fungal I and get credit for completing CoH II, then you are exploiting.
But if you are able to complete CoH II normal with ease (like in soling it) but port to Fungal to get a faster run, then you are simply using a workaround to an otherwise tight time commitment (in this case, event timer management across several characters hassle).

So there isn't a clear answer to OP's question as it is relative to the capacities of each player.

nursingninja · December 2018

It's an exploit but in the grand scheme of things I dont think it's a serious one. Why come on the forums to report it? Just do fungal grotto 1 and get your reward.

I'd agree though that people shouldn't do it in the finder with pugs. If you're gonna do it then do it with your guild when everyone agrees ahead of time.

Mureel · December 2018

LordGavus wrote: »

Winner of the forum right here.

John_Falstaff · December 2018

@nursingninja , mostly because it gives another way for speedrunners to be rude to their random groups, and event greatly exacerbated it. If not for the event, it wouldn't have caused such resonance and it wouldn't probably have made it onto forums. It's not the exploit itself, it's just that sudden influx of people using it disrupts others' experience.

So yes, grab guildmates and run FG1 all day long, nobody will tell you anything. Don't expose random folks to that.

GreenhaloX · December 2018

Protossyder wrote: »

Ha ha ha... why is it that you need to do such things for a simple thing as queuing into doing quickly some random simple normal dungeons that you have to redirect to do Fungal Grotto1. Ha ha ha

wolf486 · December 2018

Cheat, exploit I'm still bitter I was kicked from a group after waiting 20+ minutes in queue 'cos some guy in chat typed "fungel" as I was starting to move in the dungeon we were placed in....Spindle 1, on a day where Spindle 1 was an Undaunted daily -_- I mean jfc Spindle is easy and fast anyway.

Also in the future just report the player(s) who do it. Hopefully ZOS gives them temp bans, takes away any "earned" loot.

Derbforgaill · December 2018

Thanks for providing us an official response @sudaki_eso!

sudaki_eso wrote: »

This discussion is still going on? Why is here no offical response like we got in the german forum which would end this discussion in seconds?

This is what ZOS said about it:

Das ist sicher nicht im Sinne des Erfinders, wie man so schön sagt. Allerdings verstehe ich auch, wenn jemand z.B. in der Mittagspause oder bei begrenzter Zeit im Spiel unglücklich ist, wenn er bei Zufallsverliesen eines der komplizierteren oder längerwierigeren zugewiesen bekommt.

Ich sehe keinen Grund, das zu ahnden aber vielleicht können wir es spieltechnisch für die Zukunft unterbinden.

In english:

That is certainly not in the sense of the inventor, as the saying goes. However, I also understand when someone, e.g. is unhappy in the lunch break or limited time in the game, when he gets assigned to one of the more complicated or longer-lasting random dungeons.

I see no reason to punish this, but maybe we can stop it for the future.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/5646569/#Comment_5646569

sevomd69 · December 2018

Yuls wrote: »

Thorstienn wrote: »

It ultimately go back to being a non issue in like 1 more day. It has existed for as long as I can remember, not sure why it's getting highlighted so much now.

I don't think this behaviour will disappear after the event. Yes, a lot of folks did know about it for a very long time, but a lot of others were completely unaware, and like it's been said before, every channel right now is full of the "just port to FG1" advise.
So why should they stop after the event, random gives nice xp. You might see no harm in someone doing 15 FG1 each day every day for a nice xp sum, others might think differently.

This^^^...Why do so many people think this is a new thing?...you could so this before this event...

Derbforgaill · December 2018

sevomd69 wrote: »

This^^^...Why do so many people think this is a new thing?...you could so this before this event...

Because a lot of us don't typically do random dungeons (as I said in my initial message), so we don't know that this is a "normal" thing that people do in the game.

StormChaser3000 · December 2018

All those whiners brought that on themselfes when they started gazillion threads about the bug. They created a very nice manual and advertising for it.

ZOS already stated that they are not going to take any actions against hardcore FG grinders which is a wise and justified desicion.
So stop having your hysterics on forums for 12 hours a day and go smell some roses.

Aliyavana · December 2018

Facefister wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Facefister , if you're afraid of low DPS and talkative (as opposed to rushed) people in the group, then all the more reason for you to get your own guildmates and run FG1 with them, no? It feels logical, does it not?

I am not afraid of a low DPS, I am annoyed by the fact that people who can't even manage their builds think that they were going to clear that DLC dungeon until that big bad elitist came around and went FG1. I am also annoyed by the fact that people forget that groups immediately disband after the DLC loading screen, the difference this time is that people finish the random by teleporting somewhere else.

Noone is hijacking anything, people just teleport FG1 instead of outright leaving the group.

This so much.

Aliyavana · December 2018

ThePlayer wrote: »

It's a cheat for take fast the special loot from the event, i reported 5 of them not because they tp in Fungal Grotto 1 but because they didnt say nothing.

First time they just wrote in group chat tp on me, and me and my friend didnt understand them, they finish the dungeon and we have to queue again for another dungeon and wait the cd, reported all of them, they was in 2;

Second time, i told them that i was a fake tank, coz we was in DLC dungeon that even in normal is not easy with a fake tank, they answer me np but they was already inside Fungal Grotto, this time i tp on them kill the final boss, took the special loot, and wrote them: this is not the way to play, you have to advice others at least, coz you are not a better player then others you just are rude stupid players, reported all of them, they was in 3;

Now is all in the hands of ZOS, i think never will happened.
They only thing that all players can do in this case is write the name of all rude players in the ignore list for like 3-6 months and give them the time to learn education (not easy task for such players) or leave the game, or a miracle in their brain maybe..

I'm dieing. You are complaining about people cheating the system when you cheated the system?

xan4silkb14_ESO · December 2018

Teleporting to another dungeon to finish and getting the random reward associated with queueing for a random dungeon is an exploit. It's not "Finish any Daily Dungeon Reward" Its the Random Daily Dungeon Reward. You probably won't get punished for this but it's still an exploit of the intent of this system of rewards.

Aebaradath · December 2018

Yes.

Merlin13KAGL · December 2018

The underlying problem is that that the reward does not scale with the risk. The risk/reward does not scale with the effort and time required.

There's huge difference getting an RDF and landing BC I vs Blackheart Haven vs March of Sacrifices, yet the rewards are the same.

There is no benefit/bonus to Hard Mode (unless the content happens to drop Motif pages or happens to be the Pledge, as well).

There is no subsequent benefit to a full clear vs avoiding or disregarding certain mobs.

All of these are everyday factors when using RDF. Add additional reward (the box) and it gets exacerbated even further.

Don't limit it to one per account per day, and suddenly you feel penalized if you have multiple capable alts.

There is tremendous difference between flying through with a well experienced 4 man pre-made and a learning run with undergeared, unfamiliar randoms.

Both have merit. Sometimes, teaching is enough reward.

A guaranteed reward for attempting would have been a better way to go. Additional reward for additional achievements (Speed Run, Full Clear, HM, whatever).

To an extent, the benefit should probably be greater for a 1st time clear vs those of us that have done something a thousand times.

There has to be incentive for both ends of the experience spectrum to want to continue to do so. It's part of why the Daily was implemented, because people that had run the pledges 500 times no longer needed gear, no longer needed keys, really didn't need the XP, and probably don't even need crystals.

< 1/8th of a CP does not become equivalent when it's CoA I with 4x Level 10 Undaunted's vs MoonHunter Keep or SCP with a brand new group. It's the same reason people burn random Norm's vs random Vet's. Blue vs Purple quality on gear you're going to vendor/decon anyway? Some extra soul gems to add to your stack of 5000?

There is a fundamental division on a number of levels. It keeps getting worse, yet the payoff remains the same?

Until they implement tiers, with tiered rewards (beyond Norm/Vet/HM), until they implement certifications (no more fake roles, etc), this will continue to be a problem, even after the event is long gone.

It's one thing to deal with what the RDF gives you, group and dungeon alike. It's a whole different thing to do that 2, 8, or 15x a day.

Until they fix that aspect, it's unlikely to change, because the experienced, max CP++ characters will simply opt not to do RDF's again because it won't be worth the effort.

The event only spotlighted the underlying problem. It didn't create it.

RebornV3x · December 2018

Yes its technically an exploit since you are queuing for a random dungeon and then just porting to another dungeon afterwards subverting the randomness of the random group finder

but is it wrong if ZOS didn't want us to do it this it would never have been a thing and would have been fixed along time ago only ZOS can give us the answer and hopefully they patch this out soon at least before another dungeon focused event happens

Merlin13KAGL · December 2018

Everyone declaring an exploit does not an exploit make. There are other ways to achieve the same results. The fact that some seem convinced something was being manipulated or bypassed is becoming a bit ridiculous.

Until an official statement is made, one way or the other, it's all conjecture.

As usual, an attempt at a goodwill event, inspiring people to gather together that might not otherwise do so has effectively blown up in their proverbial HR face.

It's theirs to deem broken. It's also theirs to fix.

BuddyAces · December 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Everyone declaring an exploit does not an exploit make. There are other ways to achieve the same results. The fact that some seem convinced something was being manipulated or bypassed is becoming a bit ridiculous.

Until an official statement is made, one way or the other, it's all conjecture.

As usual, an attempt at a goodwill event, inspiring people to gather together that might not otherwise do so has effectively blown up in their proverbial HR face.

It's theirs to deem broken. It's also theirs to fix.

I mean it's obviously broken lol. Exploit is the correct term here. Some people just have to be outraged at something so this is the flavor of the week.

Suddwrath · December 2018

Over 6k views and nearly 300 comments, yet no response from ZOS other than a brief response on the German forum?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Finn

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F3oz8xNW2qX4i9SNeiQ%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F3oz8xNW2qX4i9SNeiQ%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1

max_only · December 2018

sudaki_eso wrote: »

This discussion is still going on? Why is here no offical response like we got in the german forum which would end this discussion in seconds?

This is what ZOS said about it:

Das ist sicher nicht im Sinne des Erfinders, wie man so schön sagt. Allerdings verstehe ich auch, wenn jemand z.B. in der Mittagspause oder bei begrenzter Zeit im Spiel unglücklich ist, wenn er bei Zufallsverliesen eines der komplizierteren oder längerwierigeren zugewiesen bekommt.

Ich sehe keinen Grund, das zu ahnden aber vielleicht können wir es spieltechnisch für die Zukunft unterbinden.

In english:

That is certainly not in the sense of the inventor, as the saying goes. However, I also understand when someone, e.g. is unhappy in the lunch break or limited time in the game, when he gets assigned to one of the more complicated or longer-lasting random dungeons.

I see no reason to punish this, but maybe we can stop it for the future.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/5646569/#Comment_5646569

JumpmanLane · December 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

The dungeon itself isn't the "challenge" the people are. I don't have to time for doing more dps than the DDs as a healer nor 56 soulgems to revive them each boss fight. You want your "randomness" gather some guildmates and do it.

I don't understand. You're using random dungeon finder, and then try to coerce people you don't know into abusing that tool. They're the ones who're using the tool the way it's meant to be used. Why won't you remove randomness in first place by running in company of your guildmates? Guaranteed DPS, good tank. Why not? And if you don't have any, then why run randoms at all? Who stands behind you with a shotgun and makes you run randoms, force yourself upon randomly selected people?

They can do what they want to do, I’m going to kill Kra’gh. My only issue with porting out of a random dungeon is my own friends will race off and leave me. They’ll kill the pack master. They’ll kill the war chief and fighting Kra’gh.

They KNOW I always pause at the war chief’s lil roost and soak the adulation of crowd! They KNOW I always stop and get the cheese. They also swim off and climb up at a different spot than I do. So, i always pull a million crabs hope they kill my friends; but, they never do lol.

munster1404 · December 2018

ayu_fever wrote: »

if i am in a pug group, queue for a random, and get a dlc dungeon... then yeah im telling the group to fly to fungal grotto 1 and i will still sleep so very good tonight.

dont blame this exploit or the people doing it.
blame ZOS for not removing dlc dungeons from the random dungeon playlist.
if someone wants to spend 3 hours in moonhunter keep, go for it.
i just do not have the time.

maybe... just maybe... thr cp11 “healer” who spams bow light attacks and the non cp lv22 and lv35 “fake” dps can get through FG1.
good thing i am on tank when doing dungeons because 2 of the 3 i get matched with are always “fake.”

This^ . I wonder why ZoS remains so stubborn about removing DLC dungeons from random dailies.

Glurin · December 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

If it’s in the game. And it works. But you “feel” like it shouldn’t work because of some moral dilemma...it’s a feature. Not an exploit.

I know people have a lot of trouble differentiating between emotion and logic these days, and in fact go out of their way to promote "feelings" as the ultimate arbiter of truth while outright rejecting logic as something best left forgotten, but really the random dungeon thing is pretty clearly an exploit.

Intended function: Do a randomly selected dungeon and get a reward for it.

Current function: Get ported to a random dungeon, leave and go to a specific dungeon, still get the random reward.

It completely undermines the intended function of the system.

firedrgn · December 2018

Im already stealling and murdering . Worst of all i enjoy the slow motion on the blade of woe.

Fungal grotto is not at the top of my list for bad behavior.

Vapirko · December 2018

Another thread! Does anyone bother searching the forum before posting?

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

It’s relevent because people don’t have 20-30 minutes to dedicate to longer dungeons in a group finder a night. Personally I have like 4 hours to play a night. I don’t want to spend 3 of that to do random pledges for an event.

Well... if you don't have that much time... then, maybe, don't run that many random normals? ^^ Reward box is awarded not for each fifteen minutes of your time, it's awarded for a random dungeon. Not like you're going there to take what's rightfully yours to begin with - you have to earn it. Earning includes element of randomness. Sometimes longer clear time, true. Lottery. You agree to it by accepting the challenge of the event.

I think you're mistaking "challenge" for "mind numbing boredom."

Colecovision · December 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

Another thread! Does anyone bother searching the forum before posting?

To be fair, your complaint about the multiple threads is already in most of these theads.

Glurin · December 2018

firedrgn wrote: »

Im already stealling and murdering . Worst of all i enjoy the slow motion on the blade of woe.

Fungal grotto is not at the top of my list for bad behavior.

The stealing and murdering and blade of woe are all things that affect NPCs who are there for that purpose.

Exploiting a bug to get rewarded for doing a random dungeon when you did not in fact do a random dungeon, potentially screwing over your teammates in the process, is a completely different and more serious moral issue.

Jaraal · December 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

To an extent, the benefit should probably be greater for a 1st time clear vs those of us that have done something a thousand times.

It is. It's called a skill point.

LiquidPony · December 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

It is not the "normal" way to run a Daily Random Dungeon. The extra rewards come from the risk of getting a harder dungeon.

It not how we did this event last year either. Last year, we ran the dungeon we got or took the 15 minute penalty and hoped for an easier dungeon.

No doubt there will be plenty of folks here defending it, claiming it makes their lives easier and asking why on Earth would we complain about it. They'll justify it because ZOS didn't fix it right away, or because it lets them skip DLC dungeons, or because the event has problems already.

But the honest truth is that it's supposed to be the "Daily Random Dungeon" not the "Daily Guaranteed Quick 'N Easy Dungeon."

Who says the extra reward comes from the risk of getting a harder dungeon?

Why don't I get a reward if I purposely queue for the hardest dungeon in the game? Why does a random *normal* give greater rewards than a queued vMoS or vRoM?

Why do I get an extra reward for a random BG?

Seems to me that ZOS rewards *random* activities to encourage people to try different stuff and play different content. Doesn't seem like "risk" or difficulty has anything to do with it.

People have been porting to a different dungeon after queuing for a *long* time. Apparently it just wasn't widely known until recently.

This is definitely in the "who cares?" category of so-called "exploits" but the ESO Forum Hall Monitors aren't having any of that.

There is absolutely zero competitive advantage gained, no useful gear, no titles, no achievements, no leaderboards. Aside from event drops, absolutely nothing useful at all other than some extra XP.