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Master's Bow needs a big nerf and Ballista Ultimate as well

nsmurfer
nsmurfer
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Master's Bow is the most OP single item in pvp in the game. it is way way more broken than Master's DW (which itself is broken af imo). after ZOS butchered my main magsorc from beta, i switched to stamblade and from what I have seen playing one for the last month, the base class in itself is quite balanced, but itemization and the bow skill line makes it possible to create ridiculous builds on stamblade.
And of all these items, Master's Bow is the most broken, giving 750 weapon damage from using the strong DoT in the game. why bother with bleeds that tick for 2k max every 2 secs when you can get 2k+ damage evry sec with an included execution capability. Adding 750 weapon damage to Poison injection from a single weapon is ridiculously broken. It is creating a toxic divide in the PvP, where this one item is separating the normal stamblades from the broken godmode stamblades. Why bother to invest in damage sets, when you can simply build for sustain and survivability while backbar Master's Bow gives you the power of more than 2xHunding's Rage. Almost every single good openworld/duel/BG stamblade I know is using it, while other PvPers cannot really match them as said Bow (inspite of being BiS PvP weapon) is locked behind one of the hardest PvE good content. This forced rarity is classic toxic dev mentality of catering to the elitist minority while abandoning the vast majority of players.

also, Ballista..... It is ridiculous how a 70K+ tooltip ultimate is allowed to stay in the game unnerfed. It can literally take someone from max HP to zero in matter of seconds. there is this AD stamblade shadow kiter in pc na vivec, who is spamming this ulti for 30K+ damage on 28k resist and 3k crit resist builds. It is so freaking *** how OP this ulti is, with no realistic means of defense. every time, i meet this dude, it goes the same way with him dodging and cloaking 90% of attacks, then fear to ballista with bow proc, then spamming the sap essense stam morph, till I die. it is the same result on my magsorc, bleedsorc, bleedblade, rollerblade. even if I survive, I will out of resources trying to shield, outheal, dodge, block it, making me a free kill at this point. Ballista needs to at least 250 ulti with lesser damage. Apart from wingsDK and magplar or nearby LOS, this ulti is pretty auto win.
  • JobooAGS
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    Master bow is only 301 weapon damage to a single target, not 750. If you are including enchants well, those are another seperate problem. Ballista only takes a dodge or 2 and 175 ultimate is wasted.
  • Unfadingsilence
    Unfadingsilence
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    Just another L2P post right here ppl nothing to see
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
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    750 weapon damage from Masters Bow?
    Isn't it like 300 weapon damage against the target with Poison Injection on them?

    and Ballista can be blocked, dodged and you can use Line of Sight to avoid it. plus it costs 175 ultimate.
    PS NA
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main
  • idk
    idk
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Master bow is only 301 weapon damage to a single target, not 750. If you are including enchants well, those are another seperate problem. Ballista only takes a dodge or 2 and 175 ultimate is wasted.

    Very correct. One of the most misleading OPs I have seen in a while.

    OP is adding up two different things to make it look like the Master bow set bonus gives 750 WD. :(

  • chaz
    chaz
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    @ !!!!!

    Dude, do you know how long I have been farming and making builds for vet arena just to try and get one, and you want to nerf it?

    Can you at least wait until I get some good over seas connection, and wait until I actually get a drop, and use it for a week before you nerf it please.

    Damn son!

    ESO Beta Test Ultimate Question for control!
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  • Froil
    Froil
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    I lol'd hard on this one! But damn I wish Master Bow gave 750 weapon damage when it procced...
    "Best" healer PC/NA
  • susmitds
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    LOL

    I never expected someone would call me out, much less for "spamming Ballista".

    But as you did, lemme break apart your post.
    • Master's Bow gives 301 Weapon Damage, not 750. 450 extra comes from Infused enchant. The 301 weapon damage is a debuff on the enemy, not a self buff and hence is not affected by any buffs like Major Brutality, medium armor passive and only affects one enemy. By using it, you are losing out on the 4pc and 5pc bonus of a set on the bar it is in. While as a backbar weapon, it is certainly strong, it is not really OP. 301 weapon damage is not going to turn you into godmode 1vXer beast.
    • Ballista is strong, only in certain situations. While, it does the highest damage as an Ulti in the game, it is freaking dodgeable. I do use it to kill scrubs and I certainly cannot spam it. Against good opponents, it only serves to drain stamina real fast, if you pair it with a CC. I primarily use it in outnumbered combat to force someone out of offensive for 5 secs, so I can cloak out or if I see you spamming Snipe.
  • technohic
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    I had to check ballista. When I am buffed its over 75k and I have spriggans and 1 piece krahgs. Of course I logged out for the night laughing after checking it and realized I didnt have a bow which it cant be on anything else so that might take it down a little. I dont have it slotted. A hill or tree or rock and it drops to 0 fast.
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Lol. Exaggerating the master bow weapon damage sorta makes your arguement weaker
    Edited by Aliyavana on November 28, 2018 4:04AM
  • OFFL1MIT
    OFFL1MIT
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    Balista is good for these resist heavy stackers who runs damage sets, if you wear medium, light, you can easily cheese away from its range. I rarely get killed from it. Master weapons, u might be right, never used them. What they should nerf is those damn memory hackers, lately im seeing more and more of them, nerf that instead!!!!
  • nsmurfer
    nsmurfer
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    susmitds wrote: »
    LOL

    I never expected someone would call me out, much less for "spamming Ballista".

    But as you did, lemme break apart your post.
    • Master's Bow gives 301 Weapon Damage, not 750. 450 extra comes from Infused enchant. The 301 weapon damage is a debuff on the enemy, not a self buff and hence is not affected by any buffs like Major Brutality, medium armor passive and only affects one enemy. By using it, you are losing out on the 4pc and 5pc bonus of a set on the bar it is in. While as a backbar weapon, it is certainly strong, it is not really OP. 301 weapon damage is not going to turn you into godmode 1vXer beast.
    • Ballista is strong, only in certain situations. While, it does the highest damage as an Ulti in the game, it is freaking dodgeable. I do use it to kill scrubs and I certainly cannot spam it. Against good opponents, it only serves to drain stamina real fast, if you pair it with a CC. I primarily use it in outnumbered combat to force someone out of offensive for 5 secs, so I can cloak out or if I see you spamming Snipe.
    I have been playing since beta so dont bother giving the L2P card. you know some thing is wrong when someone dodge 6+ in a row, spamming vigor and shuffle and not running out of stamina whatsever, while eating a 4k spell dmg, 48k magicka soul assault and still being able to drop Ballista and kill people with zero sustain issue what so ever. I got combat logs of your ballista killing me mid Soul Assault ticking over 28k HP, while I am stuck in Soul Assault animation. both are channels, why should one guy survive while the other dies.

    [edited to remove unnecessary comments]
    Edited by ZOS_RikardD on November 28, 2018 9:20PM
  • LeHarrt91
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    Ballista isnt a Channel (the other morph is). you summon a stationary Ballista to shoot arrows for you.
    PS NA
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main
  • susmitds
    susmitds
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    nsmurfer wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    LOL

    I never expected someone would call me out, much less for "spamming Ballista".

    But as you did, lemme break apart your post.
    • Master's Bow gives 301 Weapon Damage, not 750. 450 extra comes from Infused enchant. The 301 weapon damage is a debuff on the enemy, not a self buff and hence is not affected by any buffs like Major Brutality, medium armor passive and only affects one enemy. By using it, you are losing out on the 4pc and 5pc bonus of a set on the bar it is in. While as a backbar weapon, it is certainly strong, it is not really OP. 301 weapon damage is not going to turn you into godmode 1vXer beast.
    • Ballista is strong, only in certain situations. While, it does the highest damage as an Ulti in the game, it is freaking dodgeable. I do use it to kill scrubs and I certainly cannot spam it. Against good opponents, it only serves to drain stamina real fast, if you pair it with a CC. I primarily use it in outnumbered combat to force someone out of offensive for 5 secs, so I can cloak out or if I see you spamming Snipe.
    Unbelievable, how you can defend your trashy playstyle while pretending to be innocent. you probably a broken build and defend it. It is ridiculous how it takes multiple people to hunt exploiters like you, while you can happily destroy someone in the middle of dozens of players and get out. I have been playing since beta so dont bother giving the L2P card. you know some thing is wrong when someone dodge 6+ in a row, spamming vigor and shuffle and not running out of stamina whatsever, while eating a 4k spell dmg, 48k magicka soul assault and still being able to drop Ballista and kill people with zero sustain issue what so ever. I got combat logs of your ballista killing me mid Soul Assault ticking over 28k HP, while I am stuck in Soul Assault animation. both are channels, why should one guy survive while the other dies.

    Maybe just cancel your Soul Assault with a dodge and shield up instead? If you choose to take the full damage of the hardest hitting Single target ultimate in the game by choice, then you really need to up your game,as Ballista is great to kill zerg Soul Assaulters, Snipers, Frag hard-casters, pretty much anyone who has zero idea what they are doing.
  • Witar
    Witar
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    susmitds wrote: »
    LOL

    I never expected someone would call me out, much less for "spamming Ballista".

    But as you did, lemme break apart your post.
      While, it does the highest damage as an Ulti in the game, it is freaking dodgeable.
    Will trade your ballista for my meteor any time and day

    It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
    Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
    It lies behind stars and under hills,
    And empty holes it fills,
    It comes first and follows after,
    Ends life, kills laughter.
  • OFFL1MIT
    OFFL1MIT
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    Well if u cant see where's balista placed, then zos should make a change to it, when u activate it u should start dancing and drums should be playing so you would now your getting f@ed by it 😆
  • susmitds
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    Also, calling me an exploiter because you think I spammed dodge, Vigor, Shuffle etc is kinda BS. None of those needs spamming and even I wanted to, I can easily do so, as I build for enough sustain for it. 4k Spell damage, 48k magicka will always die to something with lesser damage potential but with higher sustain in fights that last longer than 10 secs.
  • susmitds
    susmitds
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    Witar wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    LOL

    I never expected someone would call me out, much less for "spamming Ballista".

    But as you did, lemme break apart your post.
      While, it does the highest damage as an Ulti in the game, it is freaking dodgeable.
    Will trade your ballista for my meteor any time and day

    Ironically I use Ballista+Fear pretty similarly as most MagDKs/Magblades/Magsorcs use Meteor+CC.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    @susmitds you must be doing something right, you even got your very own salty nerf thread.

    Ballista is good though. Super gewd.

    As for the Master bow, IMO they should bump it back up to 450 weapon damage but make it only apply to bow attacks. It does pack too much extra punch into 2h and DW combos.
  • Witar
    Witar
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    susmitds wrote: »
    Witar wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    LOL

    I never expected someone would call me out, much less for "spamming Ballista".

    But as you did, lemme break apart your post.
      While, it does the highest damage as an Ulti in the game, it is freaking dodgeable.
    Will trade your ballista for my meteor any time and day

    Ironically I use Ballista+Fear pretty similarly as most MagDKs/Magblades/Magsorcs use Meteor+CC.

    Ye but it doesn't telegraph itself under your feet saying "hey ur in trouble time to block".
    Edited by Witar on November 28, 2018 4:39AM
    It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
    Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
    It lies behind stars and under hills,
    And empty holes it fills,
    It comes first and follows after,
    Ends life, kills laughter.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    Witar wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    Witar wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    LOL

    I never expected someone would call me out, much less for "spamming Ballista".

    But as you did, lemme break apart your post.
      While, it does the highest damage as an Ulti in the game, it is freaking dodgeable.
    Will trade your ballista for my meteor any time and day

    Ironically I use Ballista+Fear pretty similarly as most MagDKs/Magblades/Magsorcs use Meteor+CC.

    Ye but it doesn't telegraph itself under your feet saying "hey ur in trouble time to block".

    It kinda does though, it's super loud and flashy. You definitely should know when the pew pew starts.
  • nsmurfer
    nsmurfer
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    susmitds wrote: »
    Also, calling me an exploiter because you think I spammed dodge, Vigor, Shuffle etc is kinda BS. None of those needs spamming and even I wanted to, I can easily do so, as I build for enough sustain for it. 4k Spell damage, 48k magicka will always die to something with lesser damage potential but with higher sustain in fights that last longer than 10 secs.

    you dragged my group all the way from ash to nik, spamming said skills and I am pretty sure that requires 3k+ stam recovery with cost reduction setup. Given you use a khajit, not bosmer, redguard or argonian, i am willing to bet that it requires a zero damage sustain setup, which you obviously dont use given your damage potential. one of my groupies was a Nb tank, who had 45k Hp and you dropped him as well, which is ridiculous as i have seen him tank more than half a dozen player.
    Edited by nsmurfer on November 28, 2018 5:01AM
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    .



    Edited by Gilvoth on January 25, 2019 9:54PM
  • OneKhajiitCrimeWave
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    Rules for fighting ballista:

    1. Don't be a fool. If you're channeling a skill break it off. Ballista is not a channel so they can heal, block and LoS while you're getting destroyed.
    2. If you see a gold shiny item appear move away from it fast. Throw in a dodge roll, some heals/shields/both. If you have 48k Magicka then spam shields to mitigate damage to your health bar.
    3. Line of Sight it. If you engaged in wide open ground with no cover by choice (like it seems to imply if you were hunting them 6 on 1) then that is on you.

    Also as a general rule, unless you know a setup is "broken" don't put people on blast for their setup or simply label it a "trashy playstyle"
    Edited by OneKhajiitCrimeWave on November 28, 2018 5:21AM
    Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!
  • brandonv516
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    Guess you've never heard of the 100k tooltip Soul Assault.
  • Heimpai
    Heimpai
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    nsmurfer wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    Also, calling me an exploiter because you think I spammed dodge, Vigor, Shuffle etc is kinda BS. None of those needs spamming and even I wanted to, I can easily do so, as I build for enough sustain for it. 4k Spell damage, 48k magicka will always die to something with lesser damage potential but with higher sustain in fights that last longer than 10 secs.

    you dragged my group all the way from ash to nik, spamming said skills and I am pretty sure that requires 3k+ stam recovery with cost reduction setup. Given you use a khajit, not bosmer, redguard or argonian, i am willing to bet that it requires a zero damage sustain setup, which you obviously dont use given your damage potential. one of my groupies was a Nb tank, who had 45k Hp and you dropped him as well, which is ridiculous as i have seen him tank more than half a dozen player.

    Soo what’s the issue here? You don’t think he can have 3k+ recovery with decent dmg?
  • susmitds
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    nsmurfer wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    Also, calling me an exploiter because you think I spammed dodge, Vigor, Shuffle etc is kinda BS. None of those needs spamming and even I wanted to, I can easily do so, as I build for enough sustain for it. 4k Spell damage, 48k magicka will always die to something with lesser damage potential but with higher sustain in fights that last longer than 10 secs.

    you dragged my group all the way from ash to nik, spamming said skills and I am pretty sure that requires 3k+ stam recovery with cost reduction setup. Given you use a khajit, not bosmer, redguard or argonian, i am willing to bet that it requires a zero damage sustain setup, which you obviously dont use given your damage potential. one of my groupies was a Nb tank, who had 45k Hp and you dropped him as well, which is ridiculous as i have seen him tank more than half a dozen player.

    I don't bother sharing my build unless asked but I guess I will make an exception. Spriggans (body), Shadow Walker (golden jewelry+Defending mace) + Master's Bow (infused backbar :trollface: ) + Bloodspawn. Not the easiest build to play but insane sustain+damage if you know what you are doing. Every second your group lost track of me was used to restore stamina thanks to Shadow Walker. It works exactly like Dark Deal, as long you can't stop me from Cloaking, I will keep resetting my stamina.

    Ash to Nik is nothing, next time you want a wild goose chase, seek me out, I will take your entire group on the VIP ride straight from Ash to Alessia bridge.

    I dont remember killing any tank, but if I can kill him while being chased, I highly doubt he can survive more two players at once. But hey, at least you have a tank, just need two leet DPS and a healbot and get on the Master's Bow grind.
    Edited by susmitds on November 28, 2018 5:25AM
  • Vapirko
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    Actually I’d argue that it is the other way around and stamblades as a class are very strong and master bows are just pretty good.
  • OneKhajiitCrimeWave
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    That setup is very clever, not going to lie.
    And this is what we mean when we talk about people making strong builds. There's nothing broken in that, and definitely nothing trashy about it.

    A few people who read the thread will have to go look up Shadow Walker because it's an "off radar" set. Damn strong set when used right and i'm surprised/glad more people don't run it.

    And OP, maybe a member of your group can invest in some detect pots? Or your NB tank can run and spam mark?

    TLDR: sweet build, OP L2zerg
    Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    nsmurfer wrote: »
    Master's Bow is the most OP single item in pvp in the game. it is way way more broken than Master's DW (which itself is broken af imo). after ZOS butchered my main magsorc from beta, i switched to stamblade and from what I have seen playing one for the last month, the base class in itself is quite balanced, but itemization and the bow skill line makes it possible to create ridiculous builds on stamblade.
    And of all these items, Master's Bow is the most broken, giving 750 weapon damage from using the strong DoT in the game. why bother with bleeds that tick for 2k max every 2 secs when you can get 2k+ damage evry sec with an included execution capability. Adding 750 weapon damage to Poison injection from a single weapon is ridiculously broken. It is creating a toxic divide in the PvP, where this one item is separating the normal stamblades from the broken godmode stamblades. Why bother to invest in damage sets, when you can simply build for sustain and survivability while backbar Master's Bow gives you the power of more than 2xHunding's Rage. Almost every single good openworld/duel/BG stamblade I know is using it, while other PvPers cannot really match them as said Bow (inspite of being BiS PvP weapon) is locked behind one of the hardest PvE good content. This forced rarity is classic toxic dev mentality of catering to the elitist minority while abandoning the vast majority of players.

    also, Ballista..... It is ridiculous how a 70K+ tooltip ultimate is allowed to stay in the game unnerfed. It can literally take someone from max HP to zero in matter of seconds. there is this AD stamblade shadow kiter in pc na vivec, who is spamming this ulti for 30K+ damage on 28k resist and 3k crit resist builds. It is so freaking *** how OP this ulti is, with no realistic means of defense. every time, i meet this dude, it goes the same way with him dodging and cloaking 90% of attacks, then fear to ballista with bow proc, then spamming the sap essense stam morph, till I die. it is the same result on my magsorc, bleedsorc, bleedblade, rollerblade. even if I survive, I will out of resources trying to shield, outheal, dodge, block it, making me a free kill at this point. Ballista needs to at least 250 ulti with lesser damage. Apart from wingsDK and magplar or nearby LOS, this ulti is pretty auto win.

    I uh... um. I am having serious trouble determining the true purpose of this post. Is.... is this real?
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Heimpai
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    susmitds wrote: »
    nsmurfer wrote: »
    susmitds wrote: »
    Also, calling me an exploiter because you think I spammed dodge, Vigor, Shuffle etc is kinda BS. None of those needs spamming and even I wanted to, I can easily do so, as I build for enough sustain for it. 4k Spell damage, 48k magicka will always die to something with lesser damage potential but with higher sustain in fights that last longer than 10 secs.

    you dragged my group all the way from ash to nik, spamming said skills and I am pretty sure that requires 3k+ stam recovery with cost reduction setup. Given you use a khajit, not bosmer, redguard or argonian, i am willing to bet that it requires a zero damage sustain setup, which you obviously dont use given your damage potential. one of my groupies was a Nb tank, who had 45k Hp and you dropped him as well, which is ridiculous as i have seen him tank more than half a dozen player.

    I don't bother sharing my build unless asked but I guess I will make an exception. Spriggans (body), Shadow Walker (golden jewelry+Defending mace) + Master's Bow (infused backbar :trollface: ) + Bloodspawn. Not the easiest build to play but insane sustain+damage if you know what you are doing. Every second your group lost track of me was used to restore stamina thanks to Shadow Walker. It works exactly like Dark Deal, as long you can't stop me from Cloaking, I will keep resetting my stamina.

    Ash to Nik is nothing, next time you want a wild goose chase, seek me out, I will take your entire group on the VIP ride straight from Ash to Alessia bridge.

    I dont remember killing any tank, but if I can kill him while being chased, I highly doubt he can survive more two players at once. But hey, at least you have a tank, just need two leet DPS and a healbot and get on the Master's Bow grind.

    Funny, i *** around with that sometimes but usually run bp instead, like your thinking 😏
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