Snipe

frostz417 · November 2018

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

Thogard sums up snipeblades play very well;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPZpSw68Yz8

Omg 😂😂😂 that video is too much
Also he reminds me of a younger version of Elon musk.
The fact that he’s just casually eating while sniping is hilarious

frostz417 · November 2018

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

I love how people have the audacity to defend carry noob builds lol.

I've never seen one 1vx video that wasn't the current crutch meta either. Get used to it, skills and gear always carry. All these so called "skilled" 1vxers are all running the same ***. Crutching on poisons, pots, bleeds, troll king, earthgore or whatever the current broken op meta is.

Now this isn't to say the bow line couldn't use some work. But it if it truly were fixed it would make it worse not better for you potatoes that don't think you should have to be capable of having the situational awareness to deal with ranged combatants as there really is no such thing as ranged combat in eso anymore outside of some stuff from the top of keeps. The whiners got sorc nerfed into the ground, mNB still has to close to use their ult in their burst combo and dps Magden or ranged magplar haven't been a thing in a long time although ranged magplar could make a comeback. Most the time all these so called "elite" players or people who play "real builds" don't even slot a gap closer cause melee dominates pvp so badly everyone comes to them. It's trash and boring gameplay now that everyone is running HA bleed builds with ult dump combos to finish.

Also sorry but due to the time to kill (really the prevalence of self heals) a ranged defile is needed. Now a trade off of some burst damage on snipe could be doable if it came with some other adjustments to the bow line. Snipe spammers don't spam snipe necessarily cause they are bad but cause it is the only thing they have. Poison inject, then snipe till poison inject needs re-upped. So if you are going to call for adjustments at least understand the skill line. Generic whining is what got us here in the first place. Everyone cried about ranged skills so what did eso do? Increased travel time on all ranged skills. This lead to 3-4 snipes being in the air and hitting you at what appears to be the same time cause they used that dumb bandaid fix instead optimizing the net code or addmiting cyro was a failed experiment and current gen systems were never going to be able to run it properly or that large scale pvp always turns into a zerg spam fest like in every other game to date.

Sorry not everyone is a stam meta slave. You’re assumptions are terrible.
I’ve already listed my points and this does nothing to prove my points other wise. Just shows that snipe spam takes no skill and you seem to be one who is carried by snipe. Btw I play 6 classes and the only one I’d probably say is close to a meta slave stam is a stamden with hulking, bone pirate, and bloodspawn. Unless magdens and Magplars are also slave meta stam bleed poison etc blah blah all that fun stuff you just mentioned.

NuarBlack · November 2018

wheem_ESO wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Fix those issues so snipe can be evaluated properly. It could still need an adjustment.

You can evaluate the damage without fixing anything else in the game, and see that it does indeed need an adjustment (especially with Major Defile included).

I feel like a broken record at this point but...I'm running ~24.5k Physical Resistance with Minor Protection in Battlegrounds, and still get hit for ~10k by snipe crits. If that's what it's doing to me with that level of defense, I can just imagine what it's doing to a more "typical" light armor Magicka build without Minor Protection active.

That's not to say that Snipe is the only thing in the game that needs adjustment, but it seems completely indefensible in its current form. And I'm not saying that it should be nerfed into the ground with no compensation given, either. Perhaps some changes should be made to durability and/or mobility, which would allow for non-Nightblades to be able to run bow builds better than they currently can. Or maybe some other form of utility, or sustainable damage that doesn't have a cast time - I'm open to suggestions.

But you shouldn't be hitting someone with 24.5k Physical Resistance and Minor Protection for 10k damage with a single shot, from stealth. Period. If someone disagrees, I'd like to see them say it outright, rather than skirt around the issue. Declare up front that you should be taking out roughly half of an opposing player's health with one hit from one spammable ability, while in stealth, even if they've spec'd into resists fairly heavily. I think stating it like that would make most reasonable people feel silly.

The damage isn't high on snipe for what it is. The problem which you identify then chose to ignore is getting hit by multiple of them at a time. Same would be a problem if multiple wrecking blows landed simultaneously or surprise attacks. The base damage isn't the problem, it's the flight mechanics of projectiles that cause the problems and also exacerbate the dysnc cause many skills dysnc even melee its just not as noticeable cause there isn't a slow moving projectile graphic to compare it to. Improve desync and change snipes flight speed and arc first. This will make snipe better in brawler/run and gun bow builds but not have the delayed burst desync issues as bad for gankblades. I doubt it will happen though cause people will show up and cry they don't have time to react to snipe and we will be back to the same problem even tho there are tons of spammables that are instant meaning any flight time is more time to react than most.

I honestly have no hope for this game cause the community thinks everyone should have to play like them or it's op and needs nerfed.

CompM4s · November 2018

Something should be tweeked with snipe, fixing bugs, maybe change the defile on it? Lessen damage? Make it more obvious to counter spam?. Without completely butchering the skill, tho.

Metemsycosis · November 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I have a sniper character. My issue isn't the stun, but the lack of cue. Look at dark flare, the templar skill. If you get hit clean with this skill you take a ton of damage. But you never and I mean never not know it's coming, unless you have a hearing disability or turn down your volume. Just today for example I died to 4 lethal arrows but only heard one. Replayed the clip and still only heard one arrow.

Sorry but this isn't the sniper's fault or the victim's. Game works properly and you can counterplay. Game doesn't work properly and you can't.

Honestly if you’re really defend this ability it just shows you likely use it. How about you play something other than a garbage playstyle that takes no skill. And no it’s not on my end getting heath desync. Not when my internet is nearly perfect and I get no lag issues. The fact that garbage players defend the most pathetic playstyle ever is just absurd and completely beyond me. Learn to play something other than snipe and actually use skill. The fact that zerglings just spam a 40m dizzy swing easily and from stealth with the safety of 40+ meter distance is completely stupid.

I appreciate how you turned this conversation from a criticism about the op mechanics of a skill into a frothy negative series of judgments about people and their playstyles. Sorry I took the time to answer you or your thread in any sincere way.

Hochstapler · November 2018

Threads like this are always made by triggered baddies and they go nowhere because of some simple logics.
Ability or play style that has many different counters isn't broken, it works exactly as intended in a rock-paper-scissors combat of MMORPGs.
When something's really broken or overperforms by a large margin it gets fixed/patched, sometimes fast sometimes takes longer, depending on the severity of overperformance.
Snipe has been around for a long time and it isn't touched by devs, that should tell you something.
People try to help and list all the counters and give advices on how to adapt and overcome but no, let's ignore all that and keep on moaning.
Tears will keep on flowing and that's that.

PhoenixGrey · November 2018

Zeromaz wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

If I’m not mistaken. Zos has made it crystal clear they no longer want hard hitting abilities stunning. So how come stealth/snipe stuns? And it’s never been addressed.
How come this one ability that’s 40+ meters has the same damage output as dizzy swing and also has major defile or minor fracture. Let’s not forget how people can literally just sit in the back of groups and spam away at one button.

Now before some triggered garbage snipe spamming zerglings try to counter argue. Allow me to shut your arguments down before hand.
“It’s easily able to be heard and it has a cast time, and it’s easy to dodge l2p”

Yes it does. Maybe if I’m alone riding alone and I hear the snipes and it’s a 1v1 situation. If I don’t get health desync which rarely happens. But when I’m figjting say 2 or 3 people. It’s unlikely I’m going to hear said snipe spammer, and I’m not just going to dodge all snipes while still fighting the other 2-3 people since they’re likely spamming cc’s and roots. So no the “it’s easy to hear” excuses doesn’t work. Unless of course it’s just a 1v1 and please. Tell me how many times you get into a 1v1 with a sniper because the second you see said sniper he’s just going to perma cloak away and pooof gone. So no. It’s not as simple as “jUsT d0DgE iT”

Don’t even get me started on health desync. I love when I’m riding alone in cyro or fighting people when my health just suddenly drops from 100% to 0% health as 5 snipes all register at once.
A few times I get lucky and only 2-3 register but I get perma stunned from them since of course stealth snipe stuns and God knows who zos hasn’t fixed that since they once again clearly stated they don’t want hard hittin abilities to stun.
Not to mention this particular bug has never been fixed.
Zos has never even touched snipe each patch unlike literally every other skill they nerf without any hesistation. I’m beginnign to think these incompetent developers just want PvP to consist of snipe spamming trash.

It’s absolutely stupid how a hard hitting ability can just be spammed from 40+ meters away, adds and the guy spamming them can just cloak away and hide only to spam away again. Literally takes no skill. If they removed this trash PvP would be a lot better. Along with the bugs that come with this stupid skill. If there’s anything I missed? Please do tell.

Slot purge dude.

That's standard forum blade advice for standard forum blade skills

On the side note snipe does nowhere near the damage as dizzy swing. Snipe usually crits and offers no counterplay.

Unreal. Just shut this thread down if we’re going to get this garbage. Block and dodge aren’t real answers to snipe?

X% crit means you have the same exact change to crit on anything.. snipe doesn’t have some *** magical crit increase on it

Literally everything you’ve said is coming out your ass

Slot Purge is the real answer to snipe.

Meanwhile as you are searching for purge here are some fun facts
1. Block does not affect shields last time I checked.
2. Sure you can shield against a spammable ultimate(the damage is way too high compared to other ultimates even if it eventually becomes one ) like snipe until you run out of magika or keep roll dodging because you know everyone is a roller blade and have access to unlimited dodge.
2. Snipe from a nightblade usually crits. Can't expect forumblades spamming one skill to know their class passives or crit % can we ?

NuarBlack · November 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

I love how people have the audacity to defend carry noob builds lol.

I've never seen one 1vx video that wasn't the current crutch meta either. Get used to it, skills and gear always carry. All these so called "skilled" 1vxers are all running the same ***. Crutching on poisons, pots, bleeds, troll king, earthgore or whatever the current broken op meta is.

Now this isn't to say the bow line couldn't use some work. But it if it truly were fixed it would make it worse not better for you potatoes that don't think you should have to be capable of having the situational awareness to deal with ranged combatants as there really is no such thing as ranged combat in eso anymore outside of some stuff from the top of keeps. The whiners got sorc nerfed into the ground, mNB still has to close to use their ult in their burst combo and dps Magden or ranged magplar haven't been a thing in a long time although ranged magplar could make a comeback. Most the time all these so called "elite" players or people who play "real builds" don't even slot a gap closer cause melee dominates pvp so badly everyone comes to them. It's trash and boring gameplay now that everyone is running HA bleed builds with ult dump combos to finish.

Also sorry but due to the time to kill (really the prevalence of self heals) a ranged defile is needed. Now a trade off of some burst damage on snipe could be doable if it came with some other adjustments to the bow line. Snipe spammers don't spam snipe necessarily cause they are bad but cause it is the only thing they have. Poison inject, then snipe till poison inject needs re-upped. So if you are going to call for adjustments at least understand the skill line. Generic whining is what got us here in the first place. Everyone cried about ranged skills so what did eso do? Increased travel time on all ranged skills. This lead to 3-4 snipes being in the air and hitting you at what appears to be the same time cause they used that dumb bandaid fix instead optimizing the net code or addmiting cyro was a failed experiment and current gen systems were never going to be able to run it properly or that large scale pvp always turns into a zerg spam fest like in every other game to date.

Sorry not everyone is a stam meta slave. You’re assumptions are terrible.
I’ve already listed my points and this does nothing to prove my points other wise. Just shows that snipe spam takes no skill and you seem to be one who is carried by snipe. Btw I play 6 classes and the only one I’d probably say is close to a meta slave stam is a stamden with hulking, bone pirate, and bloodspawn. Unless magdens and Magplars are also slave meta stam bleed poison etc blah blah all that fun stuff you just mentioned.

And not everyone who uses a bow is a snipe spammer or gankblade either genius, apply your same logic to your own assumptions. Congrats I have every class both stam and mag versions leveled including an additional werewolf for a total of 11 max level characters I play in pvp. I don't have a particular dog in this fight. And the only class I have snipe slotted on right now is a stam sorc but not the defile version either as I use automaton on the build. And guess what? I'd say the magnum shot I do have slotted on that character is more broken more of the time than snipe ever has been as it thrashes people in all situations and stuns without stealth and still has the knockback Breakfree bug ZOS has had trouble from other knockbacks.

I do however enjoy bow characters in a lot of games and guess what? Eso has actually really bad bow combat. Most of you have already admitted the skill isn't a problem 1v1. When there are skills out there that are really strong 1v1 and in group play it makes you sound really bad to single out snipe when the only problem is that it is good under very specific circumstances and some of those being when the game breaks and glitches.

Gilvoth · November 2018

i have never played an mmo that had bow set to do as weak and little damage as it does here in eso.

NuarBlack · November 2018

Funny thing is that people are crying about snipe now. Gank blades used to be able to fire empowered snipes from stealth in the past using might of the mages guild and the player base dealt with it cause they knew they were one trick ponies.

templesus · November 2018

YES! FINALLY SOMEONE MADE A POST ABOUT IT! I’ve wanted to so bad it because of all the soft people on these forums I have one more warning before i get permabanned.

+1000 I cannot stress this enough how bad this skill is for the 1vX community. Ask any 1vXer what skill they’d want removed from the game EVERY SINGLE ONE will say snipe. I don’t understand why it’s still in the game, Snipe+Cloak is literally the LEAST skill based gameplay I’ve ever seen in PvP in any game.

Anyone who defends snipe should not be viewed as a good pvper. Period.

jaime1982 · November 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

Thogard sums up snipeblades play very well;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPZpSw68Yz8

Omg 😂😂😂 that video is too much
Also he reminds me of a younger version of Elon musk.
The fact that he’s just casually eating while sniping is hilarious

I just saw the video. It was great lol

frostz417 · November 2018

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

I love how people have the audacity to defend carry noob builds lol.

I've never seen one 1vx video that wasn't the current crutch meta either. Get used to it, skills and gear always carry. All these so called "skilled" 1vxers are all running the same ***. Crutching on poisons, pots, bleeds, troll king, earthgore or whatever the current broken op meta is.

Now this isn't to say the bow line couldn't use some work. But it if it truly were fixed it would make it worse not better for you potatoes that don't think you should have to be capable of having the situational awareness to deal with ranged combatants as there really is no such thing as ranged combat in eso anymore outside of some stuff from the top of keeps. The whiners got sorc nerfed into the ground, mNB still has to close to use their ult in their burst combo and dps Magden or ranged magplar haven't been a thing in a long time although ranged magplar could make a comeback. Most the time all these so called "elite" players or people who play "real builds" don't even slot a gap closer cause melee dominates pvp so badly everyone comes to them. It's trash and boring gameplay now that everyone is running HA bleed builds with ult dump combos to finish.

Also sorry but due to the time to kill (really the prevalence of self heals) a ranged defile is needed. Now a trade off of some burst damage on snipe could be doable if it came with some other adjustments to the bow line. Snipe spammers don't spam snipe necessarily cause they are bad but cause it is the only thing they have. Poison inject, then snipe till poison inject needs re-upped. So if you are going to call for adjustments at least understand the skill line. Generic whining is what got us here in the first place. Everyone cried about ranged skills so what did eso do? Increased travel time on all ranged skills. This lead to 3-4 snipes being in the air and hitting you at what appears to be the same time cause they used that dumb bandaid fix instead optimizing the net code or addmiting cyro was a failed experiment and current gen systems were never going to be able to run it properly or that large scale pvp always turns into a zerg spam fest like in every other game to date.

Sorry not everyone is a stam meta slave. You’re assumptions are terrible.
I’ve already listed my points and this does nothing to prove my points other wise. Just shows that snipe spam takes no skill and you seem to be one who is carried by snipe. Btw I play 6 classes and the only one I’d probably say is close to a meta slave stam is a stamden with hulking, bone pirate, and bloodspawn. Unless magdens and Magplars are also slave meta stam bleed poison etc blah blah all that fun stuff you just mentioned.

And not everyone who uses a bow is a snipe spammer or gankblade either genius, apply your same logic to your own assumptions. Congrats I have every class both stam and mag versions leveled including an additional werewolf for a total of 11 max level characters I play in pvp. I don't have a particular dog in this fight. And the only class I have snipe slotted on right now is a stam sorc but not the defile version either as I use automaton on the build. And guess what? I'd say the magnum shot I do have slotted on that character is more broken more of the time than snipe ever has been as it thrashes people in all situations and stuns without stealth and still has the knockback Breakfree bug ZOS has had trouble from other knockbacks.

I do however enjoy bow characters in a lot of games and guess what? Eso has actually really bad bow combat. Most of you have already admitted the skill isn't a problem 1v1. When there are skills out there that are really atrong 1v1 and in group play it makes you sound really bad to single out snipe when the only problem is that it is good under very specific circumstances and some of those being when the game breaks and glitches.

If not everyone who uses bow a snipe spammer then why are you so insistent on defending snipe? It isn’t a problem in 1v1 as most skills aren’t. All zerglings who cry about steel tornado realize it’s garbage in a 1v1. Same as stamden etc. So your argument really isn’t good there. Not to mention the bow is only terrible because zos can’t balance a game for crap. I wouldn’t be opposed to making snipe an ultimate and rapid fire a spammable and change the damage as necessary.

Royaji · November 2018

templesus wrote: »

YES! FINALLY SOMEONE MADE A POST ABOUT IT! I’ve wanted to so bad it because of all the soft people on these forums I have one more warning before i get permabanned.

+1000 I cannot stress this enough how bad this skill is for the 1vX community. Ask any 1vXer what skill they’d want removed from the game EVERY SINGLE ONE will say snipe. I don’t understand why it’s still in the game, Snipe+Cloak is literally the LEAST skill based gameplay I’ve ever seen in PvP in any game.

Anyone who defends snipe should not be viewed as a good pvper. Period.

Maybe it has something to do with ZOS understanding that 1vX is only fun for 1 and not X. And once X is more than 4 (5 for very good players) the 1 should have two options - run or die. That's how balanced combat system works. No matter the skill.

If 1vX community is all about skillful gameplay and fighting against all odds they should stop crying for nerfs because a 10 man rolled them over.

wheem_ESO · November 2018

Royaji wrote: »

You haven't adressed my point. A build built solely to deal high burst damage should be able to deal high burst damage. He paid for it by sacrificing all other stats. It's not about magicka vs stamina. This is rock/paper/scissors gameplay. Snipers with high burst are good at killing light armor mages and are completely stomped over by a heavy brawler.

And your minor protection is completely negated by minor berserk that sniper probably has. Your argument sounds like "I have minor protection so I shouldn't be hit by high burst" and is ridiculous.

typos

I'm well aware that snipe builds sacrifice defenses (other than being able to stealth), and build exclusively for high burst damage - that really isn't news to anyone that has spent more than 5 minutes doing PvP in ESO. But that isn't particularly relevant to the discussion, since many other builds also make sacrifices to survivability and/or sustain in order to be "glass cannons," though these other builds don't hit for 10k in one shot from stealth.

And no, I don't think I should be immune to burst damage, and have never said anything of the sort. Mentioning Minor Protection is worthwhile though, since it's 8% damage reduction that most people in BGs do not have.

You seem to solely be arguing the concept behind a build, rather than the actual in-game specifics. Lets say that I came up with a build that would let me 1-shot anyone in the game with my light attacks, but I'd also be able to be killed in the same manner. Would you consider it a valid defense if I argued against nerfs in the same way that you've argued to defend snipe? "Hey I gave up all my defenses, other than stealth, in order to play this way, so therefore it's totally balanced!" After all, the concept wouldn't change in that scenario - having ultra-high burst damage while being super squishy.

I think most everyone could see that such gameplay wouldn't be all that fun or compelling for anyone involved, and would need some changes. Snipe is a less extreme version of that example, but still more extreme than it should be. No player, regardless of how they've set up their character, should do 100%, 75%, or 50% of another player's HP in a single attack (assuming that the other player isn't naked, and is using PvP gear setups, etc...) Exactly what % should be the cutoff for single hits on someone with decent defenses I can't say, but it's most definitely < 50%.

ShadowProc · November 2018

templesus wrote: »

YES! FINALLY SOMEONE MADE A POST ABOUT IT! I’ve wanted to so bad it because of all the soft people on these forums I have one more warning before i get permabanned.

+1000 I cannot stress this enough how bad this skill is for the 1vX community. Ask any 1vXer what skill they’d want removed from the game EVERY SINGLE ONE will say snipe. I don’t understand why it’s still in the game, Snipe+Cloak is literally the LEAST skill based gameplay I’ve ever seen in PvP in any game.

Anyone who defends snipe should not be viewed as a good pvper. Period.

Lmao. U sound rediculious. Are you really arguing the game should be balanced around 1vx? U can’t be serious. It should be balanced around 1v1. If you die to a sniper 1 v 1 then u know what u need to do.

L

2

P

Period.

frostz417 · November 2018

ShadowProc wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

YES! FINALLY SOMEONE MADE A POST ABOUT IT! I’ve wanted to so bad it because of all the soft people on these forums I have one more warning before i get permabanned.

+1000 I cannot stress this enough how bad this skill is for the 1vX community. Ask any 1vXer what skill they’d want removed from the game EVERY SINGLE ONE will say snipe. I don’t understand why it’s still in the game, Snipe+Cloak is literally the LEAST skill based gameplay I’ve ever seen in PvP in any game.

Anyone who defends snipe should not be viewed as a good pvper. Period.

Lmao. U sound rediculious. Are you really arguing the game should be balanced around 1vx? U can’t be serious. It should be balanced around 1v1. If you die to a sniper 1 v 1 then u know what u need to do.

L

2

P

Period.

Read my argument. Snipe isn’t an issue 1v1. Just like many other controversial abilities like steel tornado, sub assault, or speed before nerfmire. But this game isn’t balanced around 1v1 it’s balanced around open world/BG’s. And that’s where snipe is the issue. In group play

Hochstapler · November 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

Read my argument. Snipe isn’t an issue 1v1. Just like many other controversial abilities like steel tornado, sub assault, or speed before nerfmire. But this game isn’t balanced around 1v1 it’s balanced around open world/BG’s. And that’s where snipe is the issue. In group play

No it's not.
Only potatos enter BGs with a glass canon snipe build and they soon learn that they die much more often and just as fast as they kill a player occasionally.
They only score kills against stuborn potatos like you who refuse to use counter play and abilities.

In Cyrodiil, sometimes it feels like there's a hidden sniper behind every bush and on top of every keep wall and tower so naturally, some of them will score a kill here and there but much less then melee stamblades and heavy brawlers.

Only baddies strugle with snipers.

Not only ESO but every single MMORPG balances PVP in a 1vs1 scenario, for obvious reasons.
That's why you have so many stalemates in duels, especially in CP environment.
If opponents are around same skill level, it's a stalemate no matter the class.

Royaji · November 2018

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

You haven't adressed my point. A build built solely to deal high burst damage should be able to deal high burst damage. He paid for it by sacrificing all other stats. It's not about magicka vs stamina. This is rock/paper/scissors gameplay. Snipers with high burst are good at killing light armor mages and are completely stomped over by a heavy brawler.

And your minor protection is completely negated by minor berserk that sniper probably has. Your argument sounds like "I have minor protection so I shouldn't be hit by high burst" and is ridiculous.

typos

I'm well aware that snipe builds sacrifice defenses (other than being able to stealth), and build exclusively for high burst damage - that really isn't news to anyone that has spent more than 5 minutes doing PvP in ESO. But that isn't particularly relevant to the discussion, since many other builds also make sacrifices to survivability and/or sustain in order to be "glass cannons," though these other builds don't hit for 10k in one shot from stealth.

And no, I don't think I should be immune to burst damage, and have never said anything of the sort. Mentioning Minor Protection is worthwhile though, since it's 8% damage reduction that most people in BGs do not have.

You seem to solely be arguing the concept behind a build, rather than the actual in-game specifics. Lets say that I came up with a build that would let me 1-shot anyone in the game with my light attacks, but I'd also be able to be killed in the same manner. Would you consider it a valid defense if I argued against nerfs in the same way that you've argued to defend snipe? "Hey I gave up all my defenses, other than stealth, in order to play this way, so therefore it's totally balanced!" After all, the concept wouldn't change in that scenario - having ultra-high burst damage while being super squishy.

I think most everyone could see that such gameplay wouldn't be all that fun or compelling for anyone involved, and would need some changes. Snipe is a less extreme version of that example, but still more extreme than it should be. No player, regardless of how they've set up their character, should do 100%, 75%, or 50% of another player's HP in a single attack (assuming that the other player isn't naked, and is using PvP gear setups, etc...) Exactly what % should be the cutoff for single hits on someone with decent defenses I can't say, but it's most definitely < 50%.

Should I remind you about pre-Murkmire ovelroad gank sorcs?

Anyway, I understand now, your issue is not Snipe. You just generally want to get rid of ganking playstyle? Well, sorry to say that, but a playstyle that was in place in many MMOs since forever, is liked by many, and is easy to get into and somewhat hard to master (making it accessible to newbies and solo players and interesting for veterans) is probably not going anywhere.

There are a lot of playstyles I personally dislike - root-wardens and healbot-plars for example. But I do not cry for nerfs just because I subjectively dislike a specific playstyle. I can understand how it can be fun and effective for some people.

Hochstapler · November 2018

ShadowProc · November 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

YES! FINALLY SOMEONE MADE A POST ABOUT IT! I’ve wanted to so bad it because of all the soft people on these forums I have one more warning before i get permabanned.

+1000 I cannot stress this enough how bad this skill is for the 1vX community. Ask any 1vXer what skill they’d want removed from the game EVERY SINGLE ONE will say snipe. I don’t understand why it’s still in the game, Snipe+Cloak is literally the LEAST skill based gameplay I’ve ever seen in PvP in any game.

Anyone who defends snipe should not be viewed as a good pvper. Period.

Lmao. U sound rediculious. Are you really arguing the game should be balanced around 1vx? U can’t be serious. It should be balanced around 1v1. If you die to a sniper 1 v 1 then u know what u need to do.

L

2

P

Period.

Read my argument. Snipe isn’t an issue 1v1. Just like many other controversial abilities like steel tornado, sub assault, or speed before nerfmire. But this game isn’t balanced around 1v1 it’s balanced around open world/BG’s. And that’s where snipe is the issue. In group play

I would read ur argument if u actually made one. Instead I just read some rubbish about “ask all 1 v xver’s.... blah blah”.

Now you just sound worse. If it’s balanced around open world then snipe is fine. Hits hard with plenty of counters. Just like nosy hard hitting abilities. U at least had an opinion with the first comment u made saying it made a particular play style harder, albeit a wrong one. And no not all 1vxers would agree with u. I don’t at all.

What are u 1vxing in open field? Lmao.

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frostz417 · November 2018

ShadowProc wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

YES! FINALLY SOMEONE MADE A POST ABOUT IT! I’ve wanted to so bad it because of all the soft people on these forums I have one more warning before i get permabanned.

+1000 I cannot stress this enough how bad this skill is for the 1vX community. Ask any 1vXer what skill they’d want removed from the game EVERY SINGLE ONE will say snipe. I don’t understand why it’s still in the game, Snipe+Cloak is literally the LEAST skill based gameplay I’ve ever seen in PvP in any game.

Anyone who defends snipe should not be viewed as a good pvper. Period.

Lmao. U sound rediculious. Are you really arguing the game should be balanced around 1vx? U can’t be serious. It should be balanced around 1v1. If you die to a sniper 1 v 1 then u know what u need to do.

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Read my argument. Snipe isn’t an issue 1v1. Just like many other controversial abilities like steel tornado, sub assault, or speed before nerfmire. But this game isn’t balanced around 1v1 it’s balanced around open world/BG’s. And that’s where snipe is the issue. In group play

I would read ur argument if u actually made one. Instead I just read some rubbish about “ask all 1 v xver’s.... blah blah”.

Now you just sound worse. If it’s balanced around open world then snipe is fine. Hits hard with plenty of counters. Just like nosy hard hitting abilities. U at least had an opinion with the first comment u made saying it made a particular play style harder, albeit a wrong one. And no not all 1vxers would agree with u. I don’t at all.

What are u 1vxing in open field? Lmao.

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I guess you didn’t read the main topic of the thread lmao. Not to mention not once did I say anything about 1vX but I guess you just assumed I was speaking of 1vXing due to my arguments. Sorry not all of us get carried by a zerg and we actually want to be good. But anyways. Obviously it’s best to small group vX in good strong pin points. But in situations such as Bg’s where maps are constructed very poorly. Snipe spammers thrive when groups are fighting and they just sit at a certain point and spam spam spam. The map construction for Bg’s Are atrocious and there really aren’t many good pin points like in cyro where you can even X. But then again it’s small scale and you don’t really X in BG’s. I think you understand my point for Bg’s. I will admit that sniping isn’t an issue when doing things such as tower farming. But that’s a small example over all other parts of cyro.
I will end my reply with this,
How about you snipe builds L2P something that isn’t a complete carry

frostz417 · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Read my argument. Snipe isn’t an issue 1v1. Just like many other controversial abilities like steel tornado, sub assault, or speed before nerfmire. But this game isn’t balanced around 1v1 it’s balanced around open world/BG’s. And that’s where snipe is the issue. In group play

No it's not.
Only potatos enter BGs with a glass canon snipe build and they soon learn that they die much more often and just as fast as they kill a player occasionally.
They only score kills against stuborn potatos like you who refuse to use counter play and abilities.

In Cyrodiil, sometimes it feels like there's a hidden sniper behind every bush and on top of every keep wall and tower so naturally, some of them will score a kill here and there but much less then melee stamblades and heavy brawlers.

Only baddies strugle with snipers.

Not only ESO but every single MMORPG balances PVP in a 1vs1 scenario, for obvious reasons.
That's why you have so many stalemates in duels, especially in CP environment.
If opponents are around same skill level, it's a stalemate no matter the class.

I guess getting health desync from 100%-0% makes me a bad player for dying from something I had no way to counter lol.
Plus, the time it takes for one to find and chase a snipe spammer 40+ meters away, he’s already cloak spamming and running away. Also I play 6 different classes so I don’t think some random like you can just make a stupid assumption like “HURRR DURRR bad playerz like U can’t countrrrr hurr” not all of us play wing spamming DK’s.
Also. Unless you haven’t seen the patch notes previously. Eso tends to balance the game by zergs. You really think speed was an issue in a 1v1? Lmao or even a while ago when they nerfed destro ult. You really think destro ult was soo OP in a 1v1. Or even blazing spear stun? Yeaaa okay. Tell me eso balances for 1v1 when they tend to nerf things that are usually what kills zergs.

Hochstapler · November 2018

Getting health desync from 100%-0% isn't what makes you a bad player and it's a tech issue that you should remind ZoS of fixing, in the appropriate forum section.

What makes you a bad player is the fact that you still die to snipers while you supposedly play 6 different classes (ESO has 5 classes lol) and there are so many easy counters to snipers.
And when people give you advices you berate them, like a complete potato that you are lol.
You are clearly beyond help at this point.
You'll just keep on moaning until you ragequit, is my guess.

wheem_ESO · November 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Should I remind you about pre-Murkmire ovelroad gank sorcs?

Are you under the impression that I was OK with that sort of nonsense when it was happening? To quote myself from a post back in June:
"Got outplayed last night by 9.8k + 11k overloads while stunned in a BG. Balance is really awesome, I just have to l2p I guess."

Royaji wrote: »

Anyway, I understand now, your issue is not Snipe. You just generally want to get rid of ganking playstyle? Well, sorry to say that, but a playstyle that was in place in many MMOs since forever, is liked by many, and is easy to get into and somewhat hard to master (making it accessible to newbies and solo players and interesting for veterans) is probably not going anywhere.

There are a lot of playstyles I personally dislike - root-wardens and healbot-plars for example. But I do not cry for nerfs just because I subjectively dislike a specific playstyle. I can understand how it can be fun and effective for some people.

Originally, the term "gank" basically meant jumping someone who was doing PvE and not expecting any PvP at the time (and often a much lower level, as well). It doesn't really apply in situations like ESO Battlegrounds, WoW's Arena system, etc...even if one gets bursted from stealth.

And you're once again seeming to ignore the specifics of actual in-game damage and health numbers. If 10k damage is balanced against 24.5k Physical Resistance and 8% damage reduction from Minor Protection, what about 12k? 20k? 500k? At what point do you start to consider the damage perhaps being just a little too high? Or is there no limit, and just citing a "ganking playstyle" is supposedly a legitimate defense of it no matter what?

frostz417 · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

Getting health desync from 100%-0% isn't what makes you a bad player and it's a tech issue that you should remind ZoS of fixing, in the appropriate forum section.

What makes you a bad player is the fact that you still die to snipers while you supposedly play 6 different classes (ESO has 5 classes lol) and there are so many easy counters to snipers.
And when people give you advices you berate them, like a complete potato that you are lol.
You are clearly beyond help at this point.
You'll just keep on moaning until you ragequit, is my guess.

My lord. When I meant 6 different classes.. I meant things such as StamNB magden magplar etc. I guess some people don’t have the brain power to understand that.
When I mentioned I play 6 different classes. It was to tell you that no I’m not some potatoe who has the “I only play 1 class” mentality bs. Plus the only two “counters” to snipe would be shimmering shield. And wings. 2 classes of the other 3, but of course you’re going to say spot radiant magelight. How I would love for the bar space to use that ability to counter only ONE playstyle.

I’ve clearly said my points of how it’s not the 1v1 sniping which is the issue. It’s the health desync, or fighting others only for some snipe spammer to hit equivalent of a dizzy swing from the safety of 40 meters away. Love how I’m called a potato by some garbage snipe spamming Zergling who probably doesn’t even know pvp outside of his bow build. There’s a difference between moaning and call it how it is. Guess people are so sensitive they just assume everything’s crying.

NuarBlack · November 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

YES! FINALLY SOMEONE MADE A POST ABOUT IT! I’ve wanted to so bad it because of all the soft people on these forums I have one more warning before i get permabanned.

+1000 I cannot stress this enough how bad this skill is for the 1vX community. Ask any 1vXer what skill they’d want removed from the game EVERY SINGLE ONE will say snipe. I don’t understand why it’s still in the game, Snipe+Cloak is literally the LEAST skill based gameplay I’ve ever seen in PvP in any game.

Anyone who defends snipe should not be viewed as a good pvper. Period.

Lmao. U sound rediculious. Are you really arguing the game should be balanced around 1vx? U can’t be serious. It should be balanced around 1v1. If you die to a sniper 1 v 1 then u know what u need to do.

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Period.

Read my argument. Snipe isn’t an issue 1v1. Just like many other controversial abilities like steel tornado, sub assault, or speed before nerfmire. But this game isn’t balanced around 1v1 it’s balanced around open world/BG’s. And that’s where snipe is the issue. In group play

I would read ur argument if u actually made one. Instead I just read some rubbish about “ask all 1 v xver’s.... blah blah”.

Now you just sound worse. If it’s balanced around open world then snipe is fine. Hits hard with plenty of counters. Just like nosy hard hitting abilities. U at least had an opinion with the first comment u made saying it made a particular play style harder, albeit a wrong one. And no not all 1vxers would agree with u. I don’t at all.

What are u 1vxing in open field? Lmao.

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Period.

I guess you didn’t read the main topic of the thread lmao. Not to mention not once did I say anything about 1vX but I guess you just assumed I was speaking of 1vXing due to my arguments. Sorry not all of us get carried by a zerg and we actually want to be good. But anyways. Obviously it’s best to small group vX in good strong pin points. But in situations such as Bg’s where maps are constructed very poorly. Snipe spammers thrive when groups are fighting and they just sit at a certain point and spam spam spam. The map construction for Bg’s Are atrocious and there really aren’t many good pin points like in cyro where you can even X. But then again it’s small scale and you don’t really X in BG’s. I think you understand my point for Bg’s. I will admit that sniping isn’t an issue when doing things such as tower farming. But that’s a small example over all other parts of cyro.
I will end my reply with this,
How about you snipe builds L2P something that isn’t a complete carry

Snipe builds are not a complete carry though by your own logic bud. Only if you sit in a zerg. If you seek out small scale and 1vX ecounters then snipe builds technically take more skill cause gap closers are busted as hell. So quit bashing snipe users. Jesus beam spammers in zergs could be said the same of but no one claims anyone who slots it is automatically a bad player being carried. And of course snipe users should thrive under the conditions you specified. It's why group composition matters. 4 heavy brawlers shouldn't be the only option for BGs. There should be counters and snipe is that. Every game has those concerns. In WoW you don't let an ele shaman or destro lock turret unharrassed on your team. You always try and find and separate teammates from their healer. Same goes for snipers, once you know one is out there don't let it go unharrassed. You just don't want to have to use tactics or be bothered to adjust your priorities in combat. I know BG scoring is broken but forcing the sniper to cloak away should be considered a win. With the right setup you could devote yourself to killing them easily if you hate them so much and get free and easy kills if they are so prevalent and such a problem. But oh thats right you refuse to slot mage light. So potatoe on bro

Hochstapler · November 2018

wheem_ESO wrote: »

If 10k damage is balanced against 24.5k Physical Resistance and 8% damage reduction from Minor Protection, what about 12k? 20k? 500k? At what point do you start to consider the damage perhaps being just a little too high? Or is there no limit, and just citing a "ganking playstyle" is supposedly a legitimate defense of it no matter what?

10k ranged hit sounds high when you look at it in a 'vacuum' and if theres no defence or counter against it.
Tanks in NoCP PVP have between 27-30k HP.
The sniper needs 3-5 snipes (depending on lucky crits after he breaks stealth) to kill a still standing non healing, non dodging, non blocking tank.
That's a 3 to 5 shot against an AFKer!
To do that the sniper has no defence what-so-ever, it's 3 sets of WD/Crit/Pen, all divines.
He has a magicka pool for 3 cloaks, thats 7.5 seconds of invisibility.
Easy to find ,catch and kill for anyone with a gap closer and expert hunter or Magelight sloted.
Radiant magelight is better option because only by slotting it you prevent the stun from the first snipe.

And if you don't feel like chasing the sniper, don't forget to keep block up when you are rebuffing yourself or to dodge roll periodically when you can afford it or when you hear the incoming snipe.
Both those actions are helpfull against many more things then snipes.

Looks balanced to me.

The health desync tech issue is bad yes but it's not exclusive issue to snipe combos.
Same happens when you get hit by any combo really, you just insta drop dead on your screen, while on your opponent's screen it took few seconds to execute the combo.

Juhasow · November 2018

The thing with snipe is that this ability currently breaks 2 rules devs created and nerfed bunch of other abilities and sets to achieve that. Rules are : not having easy acces to stun and burst dmg at 1 same ability (nerfs to crystal frag , deep fissure etc) and not having acces to strong sources of major defile allowing to keep almost 100% uptime without sacrifices (nerfs to reverb bash , duroks bane etc). ZoS literally nerfed abilities or sets that had acces to 1 of that features and left untouched ability that is capable to have both of that features at the same time. Then they also addes 28 meters range to scatter shot...

JobooAGS · November 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

The thing with snipe is that this ability currently breaks 2 rules devs created and nerfed bunch of other abilities and sets to achieve that. Rules are : not having easy acces to stun and burst dmg at 1 same ability (nerfs to crystal frag , deep fissure etc) and not having acces to strong sources of major defile allowing to keep almost 100% uptime without sacrifices (nerfs to reverb bash , duroks bane etc). ZoS literally nerfed abilities or sets that had acces to 1 of that features and left untouched ability that is capable to have both of that features at the same time. Then they also addes 28 meters range at scatter shot...

To be fair scattershot needed the range increase to better syrengize with the rest of the skill line, though arguably there are some bugs with the knockback that need addressing. Many want to swap rapid fire and snipe