Do you think argonians are going to get changes next patch?

xxthir13enxx · November 2018

I heard they were getting eyebrows

Feanor · November 2018

this is all so ridiculous,
I ask myself, if you really think an argonian is OP, because of the pots,
why don´t you have yourself an argonian????

What kind of logic is that? It's not OP because everyone can play it? Argonians were an absolute RP race for the majority of the time because sustain wasn't an issue (either soft caps or being for free with CP). The game has changed drastically since then. Personally, I'd just remove the health component from the passive. There is no need to turn regular pots into tripots.

Tommy_The_Gun · November 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

I really don't get this rage about argonians. They have worse regen of their primary stat (magicka or stamina) than some other races, and they have to continually pay (consume potions) to even get any benefit at all, whereas other races get their regen bonus for free.

4260 stamina when i drink a potion on my argonian, thats the equivalent of 189 stam regen if i gulp potions on cooldown.

On my redguard NB, i get 792 stamina after a melee attack(so free) every 5 seconds, thats the equivalent of 317 stam regen. Then, i get a 9% stamina regen bonus on top of that.

The only thing an argonian is better at is the secondary-stat regen(since he gets magicka as well). But if a stamina toon is out of stamina, its dead.

However, you can build to reduce the pot cooldown by pretty-much half, turning that 189 into 378 - ON EVERY STAT. (while also benefiting directly from the extra pot benefits.. If you're chugging tri-pots on a reduced cd too, you honestly need no other sustain).. Not to mention that this doesn't require you to stay in melee and be constantly attacking.
The heals and health bonuses are pretty sweet too for PVP. Argonian is like heavy armour but better.

People will keep pretending that is not the case. When something is growing in population in Cyrodil and BGs, it's OP almost every time. Most PvPers do anything to win after all, even turn into a horrifying scaled beast!

Exodium wrote: »

Argonian needs a nerf. The class is being abused in pvp by stamdks, stamplars, stamdens and stamblades even though its got more magicka oriented bonuses.

It is infused jewelry with potion cooldown that is causing that. Not the argonian resourceful passive. It all started right after summerset update when infused jewelry trait was introduced (coincidence ?) If resourceful passive is going to be nerfed significantly either all argonian players out there will be forced to use 3x infused jewelry with potion cooldown or worse - this setup will be used on other races like altmer or dunmer in pvp.

Azurya · November 2018

@John_Falstaff I only play 2 Argonians, 2 Kahjit, 1 Highelf, 3 Dunmer, 1 Woodelf, 1 Redguard, 1 Ork, 1 Imperial, 1 Nord (Hairy-Legs), 1Breton.
and can say that you can play pretty much any race to excellence, if you get your grips down.

ESO_Nightingale · November 2018

Azurya wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Specifically, do you think they will look at resourceful?

yeah NERF them!!!
It is about time,
nobody played them for years until someone read the text to the racials
until then we played them because they swim so fast, what wasn´t such an advantage while questing in alikr-desert.............

but yeah nerf them,
and maybe all those other racial passives which huges amounts of regenration, to much health, magicka or stamina base,
aso, if we start looking a bit more it is ridicolous what many races have

NERF THEM ALL, NO MORE PASSIVES ANYMORE
after that
NERF ALL SKILLS, WAY TO OP, NERF IT ALL
after that
NERF ALL FOOD, DRINKS, POTIONS, POISONS, WAY TO OP
after that
NERF ALL GLYPHS, WAY TO OP
after that
NERF ALL STUFF FROM ARENAS, vMA, DSA, AS, BRP, WAY TO OP
after that
NERF ALL ARMOUR AND WEAPONS, WAY TO OP

but....
no need to go that far,
the game will die earlier.

this is all so ridiculous,
I ask myself, if you really think an argonian is OP, because of the pots,
why don´t you have yourself an argonian????

i dont think argonian is op.... i said it because i hear a whole bunch of people say its op. im asking the community.

HappyLittleTree · November 2018

Azurya wrote: »

@John_Falstaff I only play 2 Argonians, 2 Kahjit, 1 Highelf, 3 Dunmer, 1 Woodelf, 1 Redguard, 1 Ork, 1 Imperial, 1 Nord (Hairy-Legs), 1Breton.
and can say that you can play pretty much any race to excellence, if you get your grips down.

That's what i say. It doesn't matter which race you are, just how you can play with it.

Mrsinister2 · November 2018

Something tells me argonians, high elves and redgaurds will be completly useless next patch

John_Falstaff · November 2018

@Azurya , I'm not sure how's it relevant which races you personally play. I'm merely addressing your logic; you're saying that if person thinks that a race is OP, they should just go and play it. So the answer is, not everyone is comfortable playing races they don't associate themselves with. That is all.

MaxJrFTW · November 2018

High elves, argonians, redguards, and orcs(pvp) are bound to get nerfed. Personally i'd prefer if they just brought the others up to par. I like how races in ESO actually matter, unlike in other MMOs. Hopefully it stays that way.

Azurya · November 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Azurya , I'm not sure how's it relevant which races you personally play. I'm merely addressing your logic; you're saying that if person thinks that a race is OP, they should just go and play it. So the answer is, not everyone is comfortable playing races they don't associate themselves with. That is all.

@John_Falstaff But you think it is alright in that case if they call to NERF the race they don´t like to play, but which they COULD play?????
That is weird logic in my opinion!

Noldornir · November 2018

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Argonian is fine as it is. Any changes should be made to possibly improve a couple of other races. Argonian was a horrible race for a long time. It still requires item consumption which was not my suggestion but its what they chose. I personally would have given Argonians high regeneration across the board. They only need to buff a couple of other races and not nerf Argonian. If they nerf argonian I want to see Altmers have their Max magicka nerfed and Redguards have their Max stamina nerfed.

Damage dealers need to stop ruining the game for tanks.

This is THE problem if you ask me not argonians in general

We are talking about Argonians which are a RACE not a CLASS/ROLE the fact that a person (and i dont believe is a person fault but a balance problem) thinks to a role when u name a race explains the matter pretty well.

I main a Tank and due to lore/alliance i play as Altmer, i can tank any content so far (got VDSA with 300-400CP first time) so i can tell the build is solid and one doesn't NEED to be argonian (TBH most argonian tanks are usually some DD alt created in the most profitable way and most times is just an issue cause they have best race but poor skills in tanking).

What pisses me off is about alliances: we should have a "tanky" "magicka" and "stamina" race for each and every alliance while at the moment:

AD:
Altmer= Magicka
Bosmer= Stamina
Khajit= Stamina

DC:
Bretons= Magicka
Orcs= used to be tanks
Redguards= Stamina

EP:
Nords= used to be tanks
Argonians= tanks (and healers)
Dunmer= Magicka

While Orcs and Nords could make good tanks (even tho they do need some workaround atm) for their alliances we don't have any for AD and 2 possible candidates for EP.

AD bosmer or khajit race should be changed, atm they both serve the same purpose (stamina DD).

DC orcs should be fit to tank role again like they used to be (20% health regen bonus is worthless could be changed into something like physical resistance and or damage reduction since they are supposed to be hardy)

EP argonians are able to cover up healer/tank roles while nords have little use atm. Turn one of the two into stamDD role

Biro123 · November 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

I really don't get this rage about argonians. They have worse regen of their primary stat (magicka or stamina) than some other races, and they have to continually pay (consume potions) to even get any benefit at all, whereas other races get their regen bonus for free.

4260 stamina when i drink a potion on my argonian, thats the equivalent of 189 stam regen if i gulp potions on cooldown.

On my redguard NB, i get 792 stamina after a melee attack(so free) every 5 seconds, thats the equivalent of 317 stam regen. Then, i get a 9% stamina regen bonus on top of that.

The only thing an argonian is better at is the secondary-stat regen(since he gets magicka as well). But if a stamina toon is out of stamina, its dead.

However, you can build to reduce the pot cooldown by pretty-much half, turning that 189 into 378 - ON EVERY STAT.

Sure. But if a redguard sacrifices all his jewelry slots for regen in the same manner, he will get 3x270=810 stam regen, which will immediately be boosted by 9%(racial) to 883 stamina regen, in addition to his 317 regen from adrenaline, for a total of ~1200 extra stam regen.

On a stamina toon, would you rather have 378 regen on every stat, or a 1200 regen on the stat that is most important to you? I know what i'd choose.

You're also missing the resources you get from chugging the pots twice as fast.. just that extra pot use alone is giving the equivalent of around 300 recov on every resource (don't have exact figures)..
So counting the argonian passives and every other(since redguards can use em too), tri-stat pot use, we're looking at around 700 recov on every stat that is not stopped by stuff like blocking or sprinting.. 700x3 = 2100.. Its a LOT more than your measly 1200.. And its VERY burst-healy.
Its also very easy to build to make use of this.. How many stamblades complain about not having the mag to spam cloak? Stamsorcs on streak? StamDK's on wings, Stamplars on purge?
How many mag classes complain about not having the stam resources to block/break free/dodge etc.. ?

Honestly its really strong (but I hope it isn't nerfed too hard since I've already spent crowns on 2 race-changes to lizard!)

John_Falstaff · November 2018

@Azurya , don't put your words in my mouth, please. I specifically stated that I'm not taking sides. So you don't know what I think unless you can read my mind. I'm just pointing out a flaw in your own reasoning, no more, no less.

MartiniDaniels · November 2018

Sharee wrote: »

I really don't get this rage about argonians. They have worse regen of their primary stat (magicka or stamina) than some other races, and they have to continually pay (consume potions) to even get any benefit at all, whereas other races get their regen bonus for free.

4260 stamina when i drink a potion on my argonian, thats the equivalent of 189 stam regen if i gulp potions on cooldown.

On my redguard NB, i get 792 stamina after a melee attack(so free) every 5 seconds, thats the equivalent of 317 stam regen. Then, i get a 9% stamina regen bonus on top of that.

The only thing an argonian is better at is the secondary-stat regen(since he gets magicka as well). But if a stamina toon is out of stamina, its dead.

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Something tells me argonians, high elves and redgaurds will be completly useless next patch

Nope, ZOS will randomly buff and nerf some races wirh ever-evasive logic, and you will never predict the result. But there will be big changes, that’s for sure

Mrsinister2 · November 2018

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

I really don't get this rage about argonians. They have worse regen of their primary stat (magicka or stamina) than some other races, and they have to continually pay (consume potions) to even get any benefit at all, whereas other races get their regen bonus for free.

4260 stamina when i drink a potion on my argonian, thats the equivalent of 189 stam regen if i gulp potions on cooldown.

On my redguard NB, i get 792 stamina after a melee attack(so free) every 5 seconds, thats the equivalent of 317 stam regen. Then, i get a 9% stamina regen bonus on top of that.

The only thing an argonian is better at is the secondary-stat regen(since he gets magicka as well). But if a stamina toon is out of stamina, its dead.

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Something tells me argonians, high elves and redgaurds will be completly useless next patch

Nope, ZOS will randomly buff and nerf some races wirh ever-evasive logic, and you will never predict the result. But there will be big changes, that’s for sure

I agree and I for one can't wait till my wood elf gets a bunch of tanking passive for no apparent reason

munster1404 · November 2018

rabidrufus64 wrote: »

idc if they do get nerfed, i play them simply cuz i enjoy the race, not for passives lol

Actually, I do play Argonians because of the passives. Two race change tokens used to convert two of my characters to Argonians when jewellery crafting feature was launched. Triple Infused with potion speed glyphs, yummy......

It's more satisfying playing as a Argonian right now since my sustain is really, really bad. There will be a nerf since PvPers are up in arms against Argonians. I certainly hope that ZoS doesn't nerf it too badly. Would be tough to find another race that suits my burn thru consumables playstyle.

RaddlemanNumber7 · November 2018

I think it is inevitable that Argonian racials are going to get some balance changes. When it comes to self-healing they're just streets ahead of everyone else.

If they take away the healing received bonus and replaced it with a 5%/10% Poison damage bonus I will not be complaining.

rexagamemnon · November 2018

Hope so, they have the greatest buffs, completely unbalanced

Kadoin · November 2018

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I think it is inevitable that Argonian racials are going to get some balance changes. When it comes to self-healing they're just streets ahead of everyone else.

If they take away the healing received bonus and replaced it with a 5%/10% Poison damage bonus I will not be complaining.

5%/10% poison damage? Are you joking or serious?

Chaos2088 · November 2018

ESO_Nightingale · November 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I think it is inevitable that Argonian racials are going to get some balance changes. When it comes to self-healing they're just streets ahead of everyone else.

If they take away the healing received bonus and replaced it with a 5%/10% Poison damage bonus I will not be complaining.

5%/10% poison damage? Are you joking or serious?

Tbh that sounds like bosmers thing id add it to them.

Kuramas9tails · November 2018

Resource sustain shouldn't rely so heavily on races imo

templesus · November 2018

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Anyone who thinks argonian shouldn’t be nerfed probably plays as an argonian.

#1 race for Healers. #1 race for Tanks. Most common race in PvP. The race is overperforming.

If you have played on max leveled argonian character at least once you would know that their "Resourceful" passive is not as strong as people say (ok don't get me wrong - it is a strong passive... But it is not as strong as people say it is). People simply tend to overrate things - especially if they don't play much using specific race / class and once they read passive description on some eso wiki they are like.. IT IS SUPER OP ! ! !

It is even hard to call it a passive as it is not a "passive" passive. Instead it is a proc - passive and sure - you get "burst" recovery but in order for this to work in pvp you need 3x infused jewelry with potion cooldown. In other words - you have to build for it and make sacrefices for it to be strong. And btw. - you can achive similar result with any race if you use tri-stat pots & 3x infused jewelry with potion cooldown enchant.

I would also like to point out that relying solely on "Recorcfull" pssive is a double headed axe and you will often end up in a situation when you are low on stamia, your potions are on cooldown and you are getting stunned & die.
Races that have constant "passive" bonus to recovery don't have that problem.
The only reason people pick argonian as a tank or for pvp is you get slighly more stamina while blocking and weapon disease enchant can't proc minor defile on you (just like bosmer, argonians have disease resistance bonus).

As for the "bis" healers it is debatable. Altmer & breton seems to be better choices as they have 10% bonus to max magicka vs argonian 5% healing done.

As someone who played this game since 2014 I can tell you this: Argonian resourcefull is not op or anything when you take into account that argonias have no % bonus to recovery. This passive has a potenial to be strong when you use 3x infused jewelry with potion cooldown enchant.
If something needs to be looked into next update it is the infused jewelry or potion cooldown enchants - not argonian passive.

You realize resourceful isn’t the only passive they have right? This is why I can’t debate with people on these forums, they are so twisted in thinking they’re right that they actively use logical fallacies and cherry-pick data.

Resourceful alone isn’t enough to make argonian OP. It’s that, with the 9% HP, 3% Max Magicka, 5% healing done and 5% healing taken and immunity to poisoned and disease status effects that makes the race so good for Tanks and Healers, and exceptional in PvP.

Seriously, those of you who cherry-pick data need to stop. Nowhere in my original comment did I say resourceful was OP, but you immediately harp on it as if that’s the only passive they have. That’s ridiculous.

Ragnarock41 · November 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

1. If Argonians resourceful gets nerfed so the Redguards adrenaline rush should be.
2. While you're so concerned about races balance and want "adjustments" you better prepare those race change tickets for yourself. This is what ZOS wants, they will never balance races, they will just shift meta from one race to another in the name of the holy balance so we all will be forced to buy those darn tickets.

ZOS proven many times they are unable or unwilling to do things right, they leave more things broken than fixed with each patch.

When players are afraid of next update and they are most excited because of bugs fixing from previous updates, something is seriously bad.

Redguard adre rush wad already nerfed. Also argonian gives you sustain on ALL STATS, not just one. I'm not here to ask for nerfs, Im here to remind you that redguard is a pure stam race meanwhile argonian is a master sustain race for literally any pvp build I can think of.

I would not care if nerfing both would mean I won't have to see 2 billion unkillable argonians per day in pvp.

Malamar1229 · November 2018

I am not saying I necessarily agree with this but other games removed perks from races that impact gameplay so when you chose a race you can pick on you like rather than what's bis for your class/spec.

ESO_Nightingale · November 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I am not saying I necessarily agree with this but other games removed perks from races that impact gameplay so when you chose a race you can pick on you like rather than what's bis for your class/spec.

If that was what happened id be a dark elf and a or a khajiit 100% of the time

SpacemanSpiff1 · November 2018

argonians, high elves, redguards- all getting gutted. Ideally the less-used races will get buffed, but ZOS's peeps don't know how to fine tune balance, just smash with a nerf hammer.

pzschrek · November 2018

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

ZOS will most likely (hopefully)give with one hand and take some with the other.

I think they will increase the max magicka Argonians receive to 5 or 6 percent, increased from 3 percent and then reduce the resourceful passive by about 800-1000.

Nah man, they won't, gradual adjustments make sense. They tend to just sorta hit crap with the biggest hammer they can find.

pzschrek · November 2018

I will say I have a lot of pvp friends, and a number were like "THEY BETTER NOT NERF IT, I RACE CHANGED ALL OF MY TOONS TO ARGONIAN"

And I'm like..."dude...because it made sense for you to do that on all pvp toons regardless of class or role is exactly why it'll be nerfed"

Emmagoldman · November 2018

The idea of buffing everything is so ridiculous. Not worried about power Creep? There are too many pvers that don’t care for balance and just want to power through everything. Wonder why healers aren’t needed..........

I’m fine with different class set ups having a race that may pull slightly ahead as long as others have viability or are bis with different set ups. Zos did a decent job of rebalancing and I hope they are wise enough to build off of that and make tiny adjustments. There is no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Argonian is pulling head and makes for the best tank across all classes. It needs a slight nerf. Slight, as in tiny adjustment. Maybe a decrease to the amount for potion restore and a 1 percent decrease to healing done and received. Nothing drastic, nothing that would warrant saltiness

Nord needs a buff. It’s passives should make it a good choice for warden, as dmg mitigation and minor protection should stack with the minor protection built into the class.

I’d like to see a slight increase to its overall dmg mitigation. It has cold dmg resists, why not give it dmg for using frost abilities? It would allow a niche for nord to fit in and give it slightly better use with all tanking roles.