Yep and its one of the reasons I'm looking to moving on. Love tanking, hate spamming the same button the entire dungeon. At some point the players change the game from how it was designed to be played to how its actually played. Whether they intend it or not it makes for a better run if things are taunted and grouped up. A tank will always try and hold as many targets as possible, making them press a button 6 times every pull VS 1 button every pull somehow makes for a better experience when achieving this? After years of this game, and being annoyed by this the whole time, I've no more patience for some of the stubborn+silly things in this game anymore, this including.
Instead of defending or stating the status quo think about the result. When the 1 second shield cast was introduced by the devs the community turned it around. Was it not their intention and design to have the 1second shield cast? The community said NO and they somehow changed their intention and design. Your argument is worthless. Churr
Yep and its one of the reasons I'm looking to moving on. Love tanking, hate spamming the same button the entire dungeon. At some point the players change the game from how it was designed to be played to how its actually played. Whether they intend it or not it makes for a better run if things are taunted and grouped up. A tank will always try and hold as many targets as possible, making them press a button 6 times every pull VS 1 button every pull somehow makes for a better experience when achieving this? After years of this game, and being annoyed by this the whole time, I've no more patience for some of the stubborn+silly things in this game anymore, this including.
Instead of defending or stating the status quo think about the result. When the 1 second shield cast was introduced by the devs the community turned it around. Was it not their intention and design to have the 1second shield cast? The community said NO and they somehow changed their intention and design. Your argument is worthless. Churr
Hochstapler wrote: »Nobody likes itHochstapler wrote: »
Being that you call it button mashing, yes. Seems like a fitting comment for someone who is challenged by it. Glad you got it down.
I like it.
Hochstapler wrote: »Nobody likes itHochstapler wrote: »
Being that you call it button mashing, yes. Seems like a fitting comment for someone who is challenged by it. Glad you got it down.
I like it.
I dont like it
i dont think an aoe taunt is needed in this game. Talons is working really good and does the job.
if you lead off with cinder storm or even caltrops they arent going anywhere.
@idk
To this, an AoE taunt is not needed in this game and specifically the devs have stated that it is by design that everyone has a chance to get agro when mobs are engaged. They did not, and do not, intend for a tank to tank everything.
So an AoE taunt will not be added to the game.
Yep and its one of the reasons I'm looking to moving on. Love tanking, hate spamming the same button the entire dungeon. At some point the players change the game from how it was designed to be played to how its actually played. Whether they intend it or not it makes for a better run if things are taunted and grouped up. A tank will always try and hold as many targets as possible, making them press a button 6 times every pull VS 1 button every pull somehow makes for a better experience when achieving this? After years of this game, and being annoyed by this the whole time, I've no more patience for some of the stubborn+silly things in this game anymore, this including.
Instead of defending or stating the status quo think about the result. When the 1 second shield cast was introduced by the devs the community turned it around. Was it not their intention and design to have the 1second shield cast? The community said NO and they somehow changed their intention and design. Your argument is worthless. Churr
Hochstapler wrote: »Let's make a list of combat mechanics likes and dislikes as a feedback for developers so maybe we can all agree on things that need improvements.
I'll go first.
- LIKES:
- Active blocking and roll dodge -
Huge selling point for me and on top of my list. Blocking provides slower pace and more strategic combat while roll dodging as a main damage mitigation is more of a hectic and fast paced combat style and the best part is, you can use both on same character and even in the same fight.
Love it, can't think of anything that would improve it really.
- Aiming instead of tab/targeting
Big one as well. Ever since I first played Age of Conan over a decade ago I can't stand tab/targeting no mo!
- Bashing/Interupting
Standard and great mechanic. I'm glad it's not restricted to shields only.
- Light/medium/heavy attacks
Good stuff.
- DISLIKES:
- 'Animation canceling'
One word: Teribad
This is def not an intented mechanic but a bug that probably can't be fixed.
In AoC we called it 'combo skipping' and it was labeled an exploit, but nobody ever got baned for using it because well, Funcom couldn't fix it.
Funcom couldn't fix it a decade ago and I don't expect ZoS to fix it here, it's just a necesarry evil we have to live with.
What annoys me about it in ESO though is the fact that is accepted as a mechanic and they even started making armor sets that forces 'weaving' on people.
Which lands us in a situation that if you refuse to use it you'll fall behind dps by a big margin.
I understand that it can't be fixed but can we please stop making armor sets that promote this 'mechanic' ?
And change the bonuses of armor sets that !
Hochstapler wrote: »Let's make a list of combat mechanics likes and dislikes as a feedback for developers so maybe we can all agree on things that need improvements.
I'll go first.
- LIKES:
- Active blocking and roll dodge -
Huge selling point for me and on top of my list. Blocking provides slower pace and more strategic combat while roll dodging as a main damage mitigation is more of a hectic and fast paced combat style and the best part is, you can use both on same character and even in the same fight.
Love it, can't think of anything that would improve it really.
- DISLIKES:
- 'Animation canceling'
One word: Teribad
This is def not an intented mechanic but a bug that probably can't be fixed.
In AoC we called it 'combo skipping' and it was labeled an exploit, but nobody ever got baned for using it because well, Funcom couldn't fix it.
Funcom couldn't fix it a decade ago and I don't expect ZoS to fix it here, it's just a necesarry evil we have to live with.
What annoys me about it in ESO though is the fact that is accepted as a mechanic and they even started making armor sets that forces 'weaving' on people.
Which lands us in a situation that if you refuse to use it you'll fall behind dps by a big margin.
I understand that it can't be fixed but can we please stop making armor sets that promote this 'mechanic' ?
And change the bonuses of armor sets that already do, maybe?
This is a key point that most people don't seem to understand. Your biggest like only exists because of your biggest dislike. The combat system is designed to be dynamic, with real time reactions that include blocking, dodge rolling, casting a shield, heal, buff, or whatever is needed in real time.
You can't have any of these without the ability to cancel animations.
Each action is given a priority in the combat system, with light and heavy attacks having the lowest priority. Skills are next so you have the ability to use a buff, heal, or whatever is needed in real time. Active defense mechanics are next with blocking and dodge roll.
Without the ability to animation cancel, you would start a light attack just as you noticed that fireball coming straight at your head and you wouldnt be able to do anything about it until your animation finished.
Hochstapler wrote: »
This is a key point that most people don't seem to understand. Your biggest like only exists because of your biggest dislike. The combat system is designed to be dynamic, with real time reactions that include blocking, dodge rolling, casting a shield, heal, buff, or whatever is needed in real time.
You can't have any of these without the ability to cancel animations.
Each action is given a priority in the combat system, with light and heavy attacks having the lowest priority. Skills are next so you have the ability to use a buff, heal, or whatever is needed in real time. Active defense mechanics are next with blocking and dodge roll.
Without the ability to animation cancel, you would start a light attack just as you noticed that fireball coming straight at your head and you wouldnt be able to do anything about it until your animation finished.
That's all good, if the canceled light attack didnt deliever it's damage BEFORE the animation even started.
If you cancel any animation be it light attack or a buff, it should cancel the damage or buff as well.
Problem solved, no more button mashing and you get to keep the animation cancel for all it's purposes and can balance the rest accordingly.
To use your words... this is a key point that most people don't understand.
Hochstapler wrote: »
This is a key point that most people don't seem to understand. Your biggest like only exists because of your biggest dislike. The combat system is designed to be dynamic, with real time reactions that include blocking, dodge rolling, casting a shield, heal, buff, or whatever is needed in real time.
You can't have any of these without the ability to cancel animations.
Each action is given a priority in the combat system, with light and heavy attacks having the lowest priority. Skills are next so you have the ability to use a buff, heal, or whatever is needed in real time. Active defense mechanics are next with blocking and dodge roll.
Without the ability to animation cancel, you would start a light attack just as you noticed that fireball coming straight at your head and you wouldnt be able to do anything about it until your animation finished.
That's all good, if the canceled light attack didnt deliever it's damage BEFORE the animation even started.
If you cancel any animation be it light attack or a buff, it should cancel the damage or buff as well.
Problem solved, no more button mashing and you get to keep the animation cancel for all it's purposes and can balance the rest accordingly.
To use your words... this is a key point that most people don't understand.
It isn't quite as easy as it might seem. Damage is currently applied server side based on button press. In order to do something like you're suggesting, each individual attack, skill, or action would need to be programmed individually based on animation time. Even then, the timing of the server might not match the client side due to lag, latency, graphics settings, etc.
This would also cause a complete unbalance of the combat system because not all animation times are the same. You'd have many skills become completely worthless simply because the cool animations take too long to complete.
You couldn't make this change and still have the global cooldown on attacks and skills because combat would slow to a crawl and almost every mob would need to be redesigned based on everyone's damage being halved.
Of course, they could remove the GCD, but this would have the opposite effect of what you're going for because it truly would be a button mashing fest. The new meta would simply be to find the skill with the shortest animation per magicka/stamina and spam it as fast as you can.
@idk
To this, an AoE taunt is not needed in this game and specifically the devs have stated that it is by design that everyone has a chance to get agro when mobs are engaged. They did not, and do not, intend for a tank to tank everything.
So an AoE taunt will not be added to the game.
Yep and its one of the reasons I'm looking to moving on. Love tanking, hate spamming the same button the entire dungeon. At some point the players change the game from how it was designed to be played to how its actually played. Whether they intend it or not it makes for a better run if things are taunted and grouped up. A tank will always try and hold as many targets as possible, making them press a button 6 times every pull VS 1 button every pull somehow makes for a better experience when achieving this? After years of this game, and being annoyed by this the whole time, I've no more patience for some of the stubborn+silly things in this game anymore, this including.
Instead of defending or stating the status quo think about the result. When the 1 second shield cast was introduced by the devs the community turned it around. Was it not their intention and design to have the 1second shield cast? The community said NO and they somehow changed their intention and design. Your argument is worthless. Churr
Hochstapler wrote: »Hochstapler wrote: »
Being that you call it button mashing, yes. Seems like a fitting comment for someone who is challenged by it. Glad you got it down.
I call it exactly what it is.
You are the one trying to sugarcoat it and present it like some inovative combat feature that takes skills to master.
Training your brain to automatism, what we call 'muscle memory" , to click one more button right before you click an ability button can be trained in 30 minutes in front of a practice skeleton, if that.
There is absolutely no player skill involved in this endeavour.
Nobody likes it, we put up with it because there are other actually enjoyable features in this fine game.
Get it?
I can explain what counts as a player skill if you want me to.
Hochstapler wrote: »Let's make a list of combat mechanics likes and dislikes as a feedback for developers so maybe we can all agree on things that need improvements.
I'll go first.
- LIKES:
- Active blocking and roll dodge -
- DISLIKES:
- 'Animation canceling'
I find this interesting. Especially since being able to actively block and roll dodge is the reason AC exists and Zos is not getting rid of it.
Of course the use of any skill must pass the 1 second GCD to fire if block or roll dodge is used afterwards. Otherwise it does not fire but we still have our block, etc. occur. AC can be fixed at the cost of being able to actively block and roll dodge.
It really is that simple.Dislike - I tank all the time and love doing dungeons. I am tired of spamming taunt all the time. A well designed aoe taunt would go a very long way. If its well designed it wouldn't become meta and wouldn't make tanking brain-dead easy/easier, it would enhance it and reduce repetitiveness.
Like - Blade of Woe is fun to use??
To this, an AoE taunt is not needed in this game and specifically the devs have stated that it is by design that everyone has a chance to get agro when mobs are engaged. They did not, and do not, intend for a tank to tank everything.
So an AoE taunt will not be added to the game.putting light and heavy attacks on the global timer will generally resolve the issue. A very simple solution really.
some would lose their minds but it would be a better game for it.
Says the guy who obviously doesn't play magblade. People would lose their minds for a reason and ZOS would have to redo Grim Focus and other things to make them workable again. It's not simple.
The question is would you trade light weaving for improved performance because you kind of have to.
It is clearly not changing anytime soon.
@idk
To this, an AoE taunt is not needed in this game and specifically the devs have stated that it is by design that everyone has a chance to get agro when mobs are engaged. They did not, and do not, intend for a tank to tank everything.
So an AoE taunt will not be added to the game.
Yep and its one of the reasons I'm looking to moving on. Love tanking, hate spamming the same button the entire dungeon. At some point the players change the game from how it was designed to be played to how its actually played. Whether they intend it or not it makes for a better run if things are taunted and grouped up. A tank will always try and hold as many targets as possible, making them press a button 6 times every pull VS 1 button every pull somehow makes for a better experience when achieving this? After years of this game, and being annoyed by this the whole time, I've no more patience for some of the stubborn+silly things in this game anymore, this including.
Instead of defending or stating the status quo think about the result. When the 1 second shield cast was introduced by the devs the community turned it around. Was it not their intention and design to have the 1second shield cast? The community said NO and they somehow changed their intention and design. Your argument is worthless. Churr
I hope you find a game that fits you. I do not think I would have stuck around for years in a game I was annoyed with.
Sorry you find yourself so challenged with tanking in this game. As someone who has cleared almost everything in this game I have never thought for a moment that an AoE taunt was needed.
You are correct that Zos has shown a willingness to listen to feedback. However, using your own example, Zos refused to back down from nerfing shield. They merely altered how they nerfed it.
Considering extremely few has issues tanking in the game without an AoE taunt and seem to do quite well it does not seem fitting to suggest it is silliness or stubbornness involved with Zos, nor the tanking community, wanting an AoE taunt.
Heck, the best justification you made in what I quoted is wanting to press buttons less often. That does not seem like a worthy justification.
Hochstapler wrote: »It is clearly not changing anytime soon.
You repeat something simmilar in every useless and condescending post of yours in this thread.
It's really funny to watch a dude that called his forum account "I don't know" acting like a know-it-all wannabe.
It's worth couple of LOLs and few LMAOs yes, but that's where it ends.
Unless you are a lead game designer or someone who calls the shots at ZoS you DO NOT KNOW what they might or might not do next.
This is a feedback thread about combat likes and dislikes and if you want to participate try sticking to the topic instead of criticizing other people's game preferances.
Or waste yours and everyone's time prophesizing about video game development lolz..
I don't care either way.
stuff..
@idk
To this, an AoE taunt is not needed in this game and specifically the devs have stated that it is by design that everyone has a chance to get agro when mobs are engaged. They did not, and do not, intend for a tank to tank everything.
So an AoE taunt will not be added to the game.
Yep and its one of the reasons I'm looking to moving on. Love tanking, hate spamming the same button the entire dungeon. At some point the players change the game from how it was designed to be played to how its actually played. Whether they intend it or not it makes for a better run if things are taunted and grouped up. A tank will always try and hold as many targets as possible, making them press a button 6 times every pull VS 1 button every pull somehow makes for a better experience when achieving this? After years of this game, and being annoyed by this the whole time, I've no more patience for some of the stubborn+silly things in this game anymore, this including.
Instead of defending or stating the status quo think about the result. When the 1 second shield cast was introduced by the devs the community turned it around. Was it not their intention and design to have the 1second shield cast? The community said NO and they somehow changed their intention and design. Your argument is worthless. Churr
I hope you find a game that fits you. I do not think I would have stuck around for years in a game I was annoyed with.
Sorry you find yourself so challenged with tanking in this game. As someone who has cleared almost everything in this game I have never thought for a moment that an AoE taunt was needed.
You are correct that Zos has shown a willingness to listen to feedback. However, using your own example, Zos refused to back down from nerfing shield. They merely altered how they nerfed it.
Considering extremely few has issues tanking in the game without an AoE taunt and seem to do quite well it does not seem fitting to suggest it is silliness or stubbornness involved with Zos, nor the tanking community, wanting an AoE taunt.
Heck, the best justification you made in what I quoted is wanting to press buttons less often. That does not seem like a worthy justification.
The bottom line is that I don't like not being able to AOE taunt,.
Hochstapler wrote: »
@idk
To this, an AoE taunt is not needed in this game and specifically the devs have stated that it is by design that everyone has a chance to get agro when mobs are engaged. They did not, and do not, intend for a tank to tank everything.
So an AoE taunt will not be added to the game.
Yep and its one of the reasons I'm looking to moving on. Love tanking, hate spamming the same button the entire dungeon. At some point the players change the game from how it was designed to be played to how its actually played. Whether they intend it or not it makes for a better run if things are taunted and grouped up. A tank will always try and hold as many targets as possible, making them press a button 6 times every pull VS 1 button every pull somehow makes for a better experience when achieving this? After years of this game, and being annoyed by this the whole time, I've no more patience for some of the stubborn+silly things in this game anymore, this including.
Instead of defending or stating the status quo think about the result. When the 1 second shield cast was introduced by the devs the community turned it around. Was it not their intention and design to have the 1second shield cast? The community said NO and they somehow changed their intention and design. Your argument is worthless. Churr
I hope you find a game that fits you. I do not think I would have stuck around for years in a game I was annoyed with.
Sorry you find yourself so challenged with tanking in this game. As someone who has cleared almost everything in this game I have never thought for a moment that an AoE taunt was needed.
You are correct that Zos has shown a willingness to listen to feedback. However, using your own example, Zos refused to back down from nerfing shield. They merely altered how they nerfed it.
Considering extremely few has issues tanking in the game without an AoE taunt and seem to do quite well it does not seem fitting to suggest it is silliness or stubbornness involved with Zos, nor the tanking community, wanting an AoE taunt.
Heck, the best justification you made in what I quoted is wanting to press buttons less often. That does not seem like a worthy justification.
The bottom line is that I don't like not being able to AOE taunt,.
And that is fine. Heck, I do not like the boring unengaged tanking games like WoW have.
No game can have everything meet everyone's liking. Certainly someone wanting something a different way is not a compelling reason to add something to the game. Especially something that might make something easier might be enough of a reason not to add it.
All I am saying is Zos intends for a tank not to tank everything and that has worked just fine for well over 4 years in all content this game offers. You have not offered a compelling reason this needs to change.
It is that simple. We can agree to disagree and if Zos agrees with you and decides it is time for them to change their mind I guess we will see an AoE taunt added. If not, then oh well.