Combat mechanics - likes and dislikes

Hochstapler

Let's make a list of combat mechanics likes and dislikes as a feedback for developers so maybe we can all agree on things that need improvements.
I'll go first.

- LIKES:

- Active blocking and roll dodge -
Huge selling point for me and on top of my list. Blocking provides slower pace and more strategic combat while roll dodging as a main damage mitigation is more of a hectic and fast paced combat style and the best part is, you can use both on same character and even in the same fight.
Love it, can't think of anything that would improve it really.

- Aiming instead of tab/targeting
Big one as well. Ever since I first played Age of Conan over a decade ago I can't stand tab/targeting no mo!

- Bashing/Interupting
Standard and great mechanic. I'm glad it's not restricted to shields only.

- Light/medium/heavy attacks
Good stuff.


- DISLIKES:

- 'Animation canceling'

One word: Teribad
This is def not an intented mechanic but a bug that probably can't be fixed.
In AoC we called it 'combo skipping' and it was labeled an exploit, but nobody ever got baned for using it because well, Funcom couldn't fix it.
Funcom couldn't fix it a decade ago and I don't expect ZoS to fix it here, it's just a necesarry evil we have to live with.
What annoys me about it in ESO though is the fact that is accepted as a mechanic and they even started making armor sets that forces 'weaving' on people.
Which lands us in a situation that if you refuse to use it you'll fall behind dps by a big margin.
I understand that it can't be fixed but can we please stop making armor sets that promote this 'mechanic' ?
And change the bonuses of armor sets that already do, maybe?


- Short term buffs
Bad on it's own, coupled with 'weaving' = Teribad
Because of 'weaving' dps rotations are a button smashing idiocy where on top of 'weaving' and refreshing 8-12sec dots you also need to keep track of those 18sec buffs, ah yes dont forget the 20sec one and the 30sec one and the 36sec one too...
I mean, we are already wasting bar slots for these buffs, that should be enough.
If it wasn't for the damn 'weaving' this wouldnt be much of a problem but 'weaving' is here to stay and there's a no fix for it but there's an easy fix for the short term buffs.

MAKE ALL SHORT TERM BUFFS LAST 1 MINUTE?

Boom, easy fix and now you can cast them at begining of a fight and you dont have to refresh them mid fight on most dungeon bosses, you can do it once on longer fights I guess, np.
This would make dungeon combat much more enjoyable and easier on our fingers.


That's it from me for now, I'll add other issues later maybe.
Next!

DoobZ69

Dislike - I tank all the time and love doing dungeons. I am tired of spamming taunt all the time. A well designed aoe taunt would go a very long way. If its well designed it wouldn't become meta and wouldn't make tanking brain-dead easy/easier, it would enhance it and reduce repetitiveness.

Like - Blade of Woe is fun to use??

AcadianPaladin

Like: For the first time in Elder Scrolls game history, staves are good weapons and worth using!

Dislike: Short buffs. Bosses who ignore your bash / block.

Kadoin

Maybe I'm alone in this, but here it comes!

Dislike: Smart healing, one-shots, terrible CC bugs (needing to spam break free before you actually even get stunned? )

Also lack of information in standard UI, like how much break free, roll, block, etc. costs, and other stats/costs that matter.

twofaced

@ Hochstapler
Just FYI. They do know how to lock animation (overload attack before Nerfmire).

I've been thinking about their combat system for several months. And I don't decide whether I like it or not. It's fast paced and pretty hard, there is a big opportunity to master your skill. But I think I know what's wrong. Many people find ESO combat system stupid because they didn't face it's core till they start pvp and endgame trials. Mobs have very slow attack rate and poor special attack pool. Imagine your fights were mostly avoiding red areas last 100 hours and this overpowered dude just melted you with LA+debuff+swapcancel+CC+LA+execute in 2 sec! Common folk heroically killed Molag Bal with spamming snipe and now he's being kicked from his first dungeon because DPS is too low. F**g unfair, right?!

I do think they need to refactor mobs to make combat system solid. OR disable input for upper body until last animation is not ended. It'll just nerf bulls**t burst technique, and I'm sure main community will be fine with that since latest meta is pressure. Reducing combat tempo will solve several current biggest issues: content difficulty degradation, latency injustice, huge gap in learning curve, maybe even net lags.

At the moment there is no matter what you use or play. All rotations are basically same. Every class has access to major buffs and ESO gameplay is click+skill, click+skill all day long. Boring AF when you have no other goals.Imagine how deep we could go in theorycrafting if every skill has actually unique cooldown based on animation...

Unfortunately nobody will read this post carefully and discuss my suggestion on meetup. Just because it is a task for month or two implementing such big fix.

Added: I don't want get rid off block or roll. But there should be a certain time point on animation where your skill is fired. Every *** game since 2010 has correct AnimNotifiers, lazy ZOS. I already showed you how stupid it looks:


Wanna react on combat situation? Fine, but your LA or skill won't fire then. Wanna spam LA? Fine! Wanna spam skills? Sure! But why is it possible to click and immediately swap bars with attack going. Check out combat system of a Korean MMO with a lot of combo, yes even they suffer from lags, but how smooth their combos and how rewarding nukes are.

twofaced

DoobZ69 wrote: »

A well designed aoe taunt would go a very long way. If its well designed it wouldn't become meta and wouldn't make tanking brain-dead easy/easier, it would enhance it and reduce repetitiveness.

Nothing could be simpler tho!

Channeling taunt. Every 0.6-1s taunt an enemy which is not taunted for 6 sec. Maybe even get major protection.

They already have same mechanic - Rite of Passage.

Aznox

My Feedback :

- DISLIKES:

Lag in cyro ?

- LIKES:

LA/HA weaving : allows for an interesting skill ceiling despite the limited number of equipped abilities

Short term buffs : makes combat more dynamic and decision-based

todokete

DISLIKES: Animation cancelling, short buffs, spamming 1 ability.
LIKES: ultimates?

Swomp23

Hi @Hochstapler
I agree on your likes, but I actually enjoy your dislikes.

- Animation cancelling / weaving : I think ESO's combat system is the perfect mix of RPG, strategy and action/adventure gameplay. It's an RPG, but one that rewards player's physical skill more that anyone I know. For hard content (vMA, trials, pvp...), the difficulty level is comparable to Dark Souls or For Honor (even harder, I would say. Looking at you, Voriak Solkyn). After playing ESO, I went back to Skyrim once and couldn't finish main quest because combat was so boring. IMO, weaving adds a layer to that fast-paced, high skill gameplay. I'm nowhere near pro level and sometimes during high-stress combat phases, I mash buttons too fast, making me miss my light attacks, effectively lowering my dps. As it should do when you panic and start button-mashing. It rewards me if I keep my composure and control what I do.

- Same logic goes for short-term buffs. When I started playing, I saw absolutely no point in them, to the point I thought hardened ward be the most useless skill in the game, due to the 6 seconds duration. It's not until I understood and accepted that ESO was a fast-paced game where you can't just spam 1 skill for 30 seconds that I started to appreciate them. Just in the same way as the point above, it rewards player's skill, since it forces you to keep a mental tracking of your dots and buffs, so you don't lose dps. Well, at least on console. On pc, I guess you just need to take 1 second to press the button when the add-on's icon disappears...

All in all, I think your propositions would make the game lose it's fast-paced action that it is known for. Now, if we could get rid of it's bugs and lag...

Starlock

This looks like a worthy thread, let's give this a whirl!

Starlock's Plusses:

• Ability Diversity. This is an important one to me as a role-player who focuses on building characters rather than fussing overmuch about game mechanics. This diversity notably includes the animation and aesthetics of the ability, not just what it does mechanically.
• Flexible Builds. It's entirely possible to complete the best content in this game - the questing, the story, the lore - with just about any character/build you can imagine. Put another way, any build is viable and the game doesn't hamstring your creativity or ramrod you into a cookie cutter mold to finish it.
• Flexible Mitigation. I've played some games where you can't block, dodge, or really mitigate damage on your character in any way. It's workable, but just weird, and the diverse tools this game provides to counter things is much more engaging and interesting.
• Interesting Sets. Sets provide another layer of customization for your characters in ways that can really enhance telling the story of who they are. Interesting effects and themes are a lot of fun. Set accessibility is a problem, though.

Starlock's Minuses:

• Poorly Balanced. Since One Tamriel, everyone in ESO is now battle-leveled to the same relative power level. When there's still a chasm of difference between players with battle-leveling, that's a sign of problems. A game should not have one person doing their best with 18k dps and another reaching twice that or more. It is impossible to balance content around such disparities (speaking as someone who has dealt with similar issues in tabletop RPGs), and I think this is one of the roots of ESO's current combat problems.
• Animation Cancelling. Far and away the most bizarre aspect of ESO's combat mechanics is the ability to cancel a strike mid swing and have it still do damage. Understand that I have no problem with the ability to cancel animations in of itself - it's an important mitigation tool that I like. My issue is that cancelling an ability should cancel the effect of that ability unless the animation completes itself. There should be none of this "I'm gonna swing at you with my sword, stop mid-swing to block, but still damage you anyway."
• Opaque Mechanics. The complexity of the system is coupled with a lack of transparency. I can see on my character sheet that I have some number of resistance. What that means is about as clear as mud. How CP stars impact various abilities is about as clear as mud also.

fred4

Hochstapler wrote: »

- Aiming instead of tab/targeting
Big one as well. Ever since I first played Age of Conan over a decade ago I can't stand tab/targeting no mo!

I think this could be improved. Sometimes I tab target to make sure my attack hits the correct enemy. It's something you pretty much have to do against pet sorcs, in PvP, although I am unsure how much it helps. Sometimes the targeting system fires 90 degrees sideways, or even backwards, which IMO it should not do. Huge nuisance when that happens. I am not sure how much that relates to tab targetting. I think this can primarily happen when I have something tab targetted.

As a templar, I also want clarification on whether I can select the primary target for Sweeps/Jabs with tab targetting. For example, sometimes you face several mobs alongside a Crematorial Guard in the final vMA stage, and it is extremely annoying (not to mention deadly) when the Daedroth isn't the primary target.

A further use of tab targetting is simply marking the enemy for the white outline. It helps visibility in crowded duelling places. It tremendously helps in the final Selene boss fight, as the place is so dark and you otherwise can't see which way the boss is facing to avoid it's one-shot mechanic. You can also use it to track players across great distances and through building walls, for example in IC, which I actually like. (Players can shake this off with cloak or crouch).

In other words, I also like that tab targetting is not necessary, but as an optional mechanic I would very much like to keep it.

- 'Animation canceling'

Well, here we go . I am not a great DPSer and I hate the snobbery that goes with it, such as posting your DPS numbers in chat at times when it's clearly irrelevant. But, where to start? Weaving is just one form of animation cancelling. Others are bash, block, roll, and bar swap cancelling. The reason this exists, IMO, is to make the game feel responsive, and I see it as a huge positive in that regard. There is a global cooldown (GCD) of about 1 second. You can only perform one skill per GCD. There is a bunch things done to make the game feel responsive, despite the rather long cooldown:

(1) You may queue up another skill, by pressing another skill key early. It won't activate until the following second, but this allows you to be less accurate with your keyboard timing. This is most noticeable when the first skill has a cast time. For example you can queue an Incap Strike during the Snipe animation. Both skills will activate and, due to the Snipe cast time, land at the same time, but it took 2 GCDs to activate.

(2) Block, bash, roll, if not bar swap, are very reactionary actions. The game would feel terrible, if they couldn't be done in a split second. I would thus be totally against them not cancelling the preceding skill animation. I guess the question is, what does that mean? Currently, the preceding action still takes place, and there are subtle ... glitches, such as being able to speed up the Impale travel time that way. What would happen if this was implemented differently? I don't really see how you could improve it.

(3) That leaves us with weaving. In an earlier paragraph you praised light, medium, heavy attacks. What would happen, if light attacks shared the same GCD as skills? What would be the reason to use them at all, given that they do substantially less damage than a skill? Conserving resources? I guess that might work. Of course, as it stands, light attack weaving is necessary for so many reasons. Enchant activation when your skill rotation doesn't consist of weapon skills. Armor sets that depend on it. Skills that depend on it. The Psijic spammable is fairly new, but Grim Focus has been around for a long time. This is just so ingrained, at this stage. The player base keeps telling ZOS not to make drastic changes, if they ever hope to balance combat. So, by that token, you IMO can't / shouldn't change this now.

I understand that it can't be fixed but can we please stop making armor sets that promote this 'mechanic' ?
And change the bonuses of armor sets that already do, maybe?

I don't see the point. Light attack damage was buffed recently, but has always been a sizeable part of overall DPS. Set bonuses don't matter. You have to weave to be competitive, or to just get through the hardest content at all, regardless of what you wear.

Funny you didn't mention CCs, roots, and snares as either positive or negative. Aside from lag, these are probably the things I curse about the most. Not so much in PvP, where it's expected, but in PvE. When overland mobs snare you as you are riding by, it's such a nuisance. How dare they? Shouldn't they realise, by now, that you are stupid OP and will just annihilate them, if you get off your horse? Same with daedra in IC. It would be different if they were more dangerous, but nowadays the ones that cloak, snare, or CC, just waste your time.

At the other end of the spectrum there are dangerous fights in vMA where ground / boss effects only produce a slight wobble in your character that's hard to see, yet you have to break free.

I am very conflicted about CC in general. It is clearly baked into the design of the game, yet I hate mechanics that remove control from my character. Complexity is what makes the game interesting, so I'm not sure banishing CCs, roots and snares would be a good thing, but sometimes that's what I wish for.

fred4

Starlock wrote: »

There should be none of this "I'm gonna swing at you with my sword, stop mid-swing to block, but still damage you anyway."

I appreciate the logic of that, but on the other hand this provides a way for 1vXers or smaller groups to have a chance against bigger ones, in PvP. Without it, they would be more likely to get stuck on defense, and that's always a recipe to just die. Those guys running around a tower, killing it against superior forces, the window they have to attack anyone is extremely small as it is. They manage it partly by being skilled at animation cancelling.

WeiOfTheGun

When I use mass hysteria on my stamblade, none of my surprise attacks land while the person is feared. I have to chase someone spamming attacks that don't hit....please fix

Hochstapler

Starlock wrote: »

This looks like a worthy thread, let's give this a whirl!


[*] Animation Cancelling. Far and away the most bizarre aspect of ESO's combat mechanics is the ability to cancel a strike mid swing and have it still do damage. Understand that I have no problem with the ability to cancel animations in of itself - it's an important mitigation tool that I like. My issue is that cancelling an ability should cancel the effect of that ability unless the animation completes itself. There should be none of this "I'm gonna swing at you with my sword, stop mid-swing to block, but still damage you anyway."
]

This is exactly what I ment when I was bitching about this 'mechanic' just couldn't put it in words as well as you did.
I can blame it on English not being my first language but I'm just not good at words like you.
The fact that canceled animation does it's damage is why we are where we are.
anything can be learned and get used to if you practice it long enough, it's just 'muscle memory'.
My point is that there's no need for it what-so-ever.
For me, it just takes away from my enjoyment of combat, especially in PVE and longer boss fights.
There's no time what so ever to enjoy the RPG part of this MMORPG.
On boss fights in dungeonsI can't follow the story line or focus on the scenery or NPC comments or even move from my spot because well, I have to focus on those weaving light attacks in this circle I'm standing in so I can squeeze the max dps out of my armor bonuses.
Not a fun gameplay at all, for me.

Well said my man, well said.

Hochstapler

fred4 wrote: »

(3) That leaves us with weaving. In an earlier paragraph you praised light, medium, heavy attacks. What would happen, if light attacks shared the same GCD as skills? What would be the reason to use them at all, given that they do substantially less damage than a skill?

I see light and heavy attacks as signature Elder Scrolls mechanic and one that adds a bit of realism to the game.
I would use them for the same reasons i use them now, to replenish resources, like with siphoning attacks in case of light attacks importance and the usual mechanic of resource replenishment via heavy attacks.
Devs designed and gave us reasons to use them in combat.

fred4 wrote: »

Funny you didn't mention CCs, roots, and snares as either positive or negative.

I didn't mention them because CC has been with us since Everquest.
It's one of the essential mechanics to add diversity and a player skill to the mix.
Without them combat would be super bland and boring.

And yes I also hate it when I'm trying to get someplace fast and in a full galop just for that idiot NPC to dismount me with a single arrow in the back.
It's annoying yes but not enough for me to wish to remove such an essential mechanic from the game.
Al least in ESO we have innate root breaks that also can me improved with CP, which I can't say for other MMOs, at least not one I've played.



So, well timed blocking, dodging and use of CC and anti CC are all parts of player skill set and what separates skillfull from not so skillfull players.
'Weaving' is none of that.
'Weaving' is something I can teach a monkey to execute if i trained it long enough.

The question we need to ask ourselves is, does button mashing adds fun to our gaming or it's just a major annoyance that takes away from our fun and game experience.
I've asked myself that many times and the answer is clear yes, it's absolutely idiotic 'mechanic' that has no place in any game.

And yes I know it's probably too late now to demand to be reworked and I mentioned it in the OP but at least it shouldn't be encouraged like it was with Summerset armor sets.
And I also added a simple solution to tone down the button mashing a bit with adding longer timers on short term buffs.

Rungar

putting light and heavy attacks on the global timer will generally resolve the issue. A very simple solution really.

some would lose their minds but it would be a better game for it.

DoobZ69

twofaced wrote: »

DoobZ69 wrote: »

A well designed aoe taunt would go a very long way. If its well designed it wouldn't become meta and wouldn't make tanking brain-dead easy/easier, it would enhance it and reduce repetitiveness.

Nothing could be simpler tho!

Channeling taunt. Every 0.6-1s taunt an enemy which is not taunted for 6 sec. Maybe even get major protection.

They already have same mechanic - Rite of Passage.

I disagree with that design. It takes control away from what you are taunting. Maybe I want to taunt the npcs around me right now but not 3 seconds from now when more enemies show up, as an example. A single aoe taunt has more control and overtaunting too many mobs is the player's mistake, rather than the skill's design.

idk

Hochstapler wrote: »

Let's make a list of combat mechanics likes and dislikes as a feedback for developers so maybe we can all agree on things that need improvements.
I'll go first.

- LIKES:

- Active blocking and roll dodge -

- DISLIKES:

- 'Animation canceling'

I find this interesting. Especially since being able to actively block and roll dodge is the reason AC exists and Zos is not getting rid of it.

Of course the use of any skill must pass the 1 second GCD to fire if block or roll dodge is used afterwards. Otherwise it does not fire but we still have our block, etc. occur. AC can be fixed at the cost of being able to actively block and roll dodge.

It really is that simple.

DoobZ69 wrote: »

Dislike - I tank all the time and love doing dungeons. I am tired of spamming taunt all the time. A well designed aoe taunt would go a very long way. If its well designed it wouldn't become meta and wouldn't make tanking brain-dead easy/easier, it would enhance it and reduce repetitiveness.

Like - Blade of Woe is fun to use??

To this, an AoE taunt is not needed in this game and specifically the devs have stated that it is by design that everyone has a chance to get agro when mobs are engaged. They did not, and do not, intend for a tank to tank everything.

So an AoE taunt will not be added to the game.

fred4

Rungar wrote: »

putting light and heavy attacks on the global timer will generally resolve the issue. A very simple solution really.

some would lose their minds but it would be a better game for it.

Says the guy who obviously doesn't play magblade. People would lose their minds for a reason and ZOS would have to redo Grim Focus and other things to make them workable again. It's not simple.

Hochstapler

idk wrote: »

I find this interesting. Especially since being able to actively block and roll dodge is the reason AC exists and Zos is not getting rid of it.

Of course the use of any skill must pass the 1 second GCD to fire if block or roll dodge is used afterwards. Otherwise it does not fire but we still have our block, etc. occur. AC can be fixed at the cost of being able to actively block and roll dodge.

It really is that simple.

I don't understand exactly what you saying here.
Block and dodge has a priority to everything and cancels everything (as it should).
The problem is that the canceled skill aplies, be it damage or buff or whatever.

But not only block, but also any damage skill on your bar cancels light attack animation but still aplies the light attack damage on your target.
That's the problem, it's free damage if you button mash like a monkey.
If you cancel a skill mid way, it shouldn't apply the effect it carries no?

First time I saw this was in Age of Conan which had simmilar combat system.
It had combo system where you charge up a powerfull combo by activating 2 to 4 skills one after another.
Every skill had its animation but you could cancel them in simmilar way as in ESO and deliver much faster fully charged combo damage.
It was called 'combo skipping' and it was considered exploit, except that it was never fixed.

Here is considered mechanic and skills and armor sets are made to promote it.
Weird indeed.

Rungar

idk wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

Let's make a list of combat mechanics likes and dislikes as a feedback for developers so maybe we can all agree on things that need improvements.
I'll go first.

- LIKES:

- Active blocking and roll dodge -

- DISLIKES:

- 'Animation canceling'

I find this interesting. Especially since being able to actively block and roll dodge is the reason AC exists and Zos is not getting rid of it.

Of course the use of any skill must pass the 1 second GCD to fire if block or roll dodge is used afterwards. Otherwise it does not fire but we still have our block, etc. occur. AC can be fixed at the cost of being able to actively block and roll dodge.

It really is that simple.

DoobZ69 wrote: »

Dislike - I tank all the time and love doing dungeons. I am tired of spamming taunt all the time. A well designed aoe taunt would go a very long way. If its well designed it wouldn't become meta and wouldn't make tanking brain-dead easy/easier, it would enhance it and reduce repetitiveness.

Like - Blade of Woe is fun to use??

To this, an AoE taunt is not needed in this game and specifically the devs have stated that it is by design that everyone has a chance to get agro when mobs are engaged. They did not, and do not, intend for a tank to tank everything.

So an AoE taunt will not be added to the game.

fred4 wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

putting light and heavy attacks on the global timer will generally resolve the issue. A very simple solution really.

some would lose their minds but it would be a better game for it.

Says the guy who obviously doesn't play magblade. People would lose their minds for a reason and ZOS would have to redo Grim Focus and other things to make them workable again. It's not simple.

zos literally changes how classes work each patch. Nothing new here. I have all the classes also. The question is would you trade light weaving for improved performance because you kind of have to.

idk

Hochstapler wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I find this interesting. Especially since being able to actively block and roll dodge is the reason AC exists and Zos is not getting rid of it.

Of course the use of any skill must pass the 1 second GCD to fire if block or roll dodge is used afterwards. Otherwise it does not fire but we still have our block, etc. occur. AC can be fixed at the cost of being able to actively block and roll dodge.

It really is that simple.

I don't understand exactly what you saying here.
Block and dodge has a priority to everything and cancels everything (as it should).
The problem is that the canceled skill aplies, be it damage or buff or whatever.

But not only block, but also any damage skill on your bar cancels light attack animation but still aplies the light attack damage on your target.
That's the problem, it's free damage if you button mash like a monkey.
If you cancel a skill mid way, it shouldn't apply the effect it carries no?

First time I saw this was in Age of Conan which had simmilar combat system.
It had combo system where you charge up a powerfull combo by activating 2 to 4 skills one after another.
Every skill had its animation but you could cancel them in simmilar way as in ESO and deliver much faster fully charged combo damage.
It was called 'combo skipping' and it was considered exploit, except that it was never fixed.

Here is considered mechanic and skills and armor sets are made to promote it.
Weird indeed.

Your explanation is very rudimentary and as such leaves out pertinent information.

Yes, block and dodge have priority over a skill but the use of either after activating a skill does not mean the skill still fires. There is a 1 second GCD that must pass for the skill to still fire. Otherwise nothing happens except for the block of roll dodge.

What you mention second gets into the priority of actions. Basic attack<Skill<Block/Roll Dodge/Weapon Swap

Essentially, animations are designed in a manner that they are longer than what is required for the skill to fire. It really is that simple.

Here it does take a little bit of skill, but really not much. Most players AC with weaving LA and bar swaps. Something easy for all to do. Yes, I know some players have problems with bar swaps but that really is a personal issue.

Also, Zos has double downed on the most basic part, and the easiest part, weaving LAs. Twice they have increased the damage of a LA so it now does more damage than a HA.

But my point is that both are tied together. You praise being able to block and dodge yet complain about the reason why.

Rungar

putting light attacks on the gcd does not impact in any way the use of block or dodge to keep the fast paced gameplay so they are not tied together in any way.

Hochstapler

idk wrote: »

Yes, block and dodge have priority over a skill but the use of either after activating a skill does not mean the skill still fires. There is a 1 second GCD that must pass for the skill to still fire. Otherwise nothing happens except for the block of roll dodge.

The skill fires bro.
You can skip the animation of your short buffs with a block mid fight and reaply the buff

idk wrote: »

What you mention second gets into the priority of actions. Basic attack<Skill<Block/Roll Dodge/Weapon Swap

Essentially, animations are designed in a manner that they are longer than what is required for the skill to fire. It really is that simple.

Fine.
Why do we have long light attack and buffs animations if we aren't supposed to enjoy them?
They can shorten them to 2 frames (sword up, sword down..lol) and explain to new players that they are expected to button mash super dooper fast (console style) on a PC MMORPG.
Since when do we consider button mashing a player skill?
It must be a generational thing.

idk

Rungar wrote: »

putting light attacks on the gcd does not impact in any way the use of block or dodge to keep the fast paced gameplay so they are not tied together in any way.

You are fairly wrong. It would make combat clunky. Especially the combat Zos has been pushing which specifically incentivized weaving in a light attack.

In other words, Zos will not be making that change.

idk

Hochstapler wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Yes, block and dodge have priority over a skill but the use of either after activating a skill does not mean the skill still fires. There is a 1 second GCD that must pass for the skill to still fire. Otherwise nothing happens except for the block of roll dodge.

The skill fires bro.
You can skip the animation of your short buffs with a block mid fight and reaply the buff

idk wrote: »

What you mention second gets into the priority of actions. Basic attack<Skill<Block/Roll Dodge/Weapon Swap

Essentially, animations are designed in a manner that they are longer than what is required for the skill to fire. It really is that simple.

Fine.
Why do we have long light attack and buffs animations if we aren't supposed to enjoy them?
They can shorten them to 2 frames (sword up, sword down..lol) and explain to new players that they are expected to button mash super dooper fast (console style) on a PC MMORPG.
Since when do we consider button mashing a player skill?
It must be a generational thing.

It is not button mashers that successfully AC. It is those that practice how to get it done right and do it well that get it done. They have refined their playstyle.

As for the rest, it does not make sense. I have explained it well. Maybe I left out the more important aspects, that it only takes a little consistent practice to start getting it down. Also, and more importantly, a great many get it and Zos will not be changing since I already explained they have more than double downed on this twice in recent years.

Edit: practice it . Really work on it and you will get it down. I did and some fairly casual players I run with some got it figured out because they wanted to.

Hochstapler

Rungar wrote: »

The question is would you trade light weaving for improved performance because you kind of have to.

Very good point.

Hochstapler

idk wrote: »

Edit: practice it . Really work on it and you will get it down. I did and some fairly casual players I run with some got it figured out because they wanted to.

Rly bro?
That's what you got out of my posts?
That I can't button mash?
I'm not new to ESO, I am however new to forums.
I play both Stamblade and Magblade dps in dungeons, classes with the most silly rotations I've ever seen in a MMOs and I play MMOs for almost 2 decades now.

I got it down all right lol.
That doesn't mean I have to like it.
If the annoyance overtakes the fun I'll just drop the game like a bad habit.
It's no biggie for me really.

idk

Hochstapler wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Edit: practice it . Really work on it and you will get it down. I did and some fairly casual players I run with some got it figured out because they wanted to.

Rly bro?
That's what you got out of my posts?
That I can't button mash?

Being that you call it button mashing, yes. Seems like a fitting comment for someone who is challenged by it. Glad you got it down.

Hochstapler

idk wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Edit: practice it . Really work on it and you will get it down. I did and some fairly casual players I run with some got it figured out because they wanted to.

Rly bro?
That's what you got out of my posts?
That I can't button mash?

Being that you call it button mashing, yes. Seems like a fitting comment for someone who is challenged by it. Glad you got it down.

I call it exactly what it is.
You are the one trying to sugarcoat it and present it like some inovative combat feature that takes skills to master.
Training your brain to automatism, what we call 'muscle memory" , to click one more button right before you click an ability button can be trained in 30 minutes in front of a practice skeleton, if that.
There is absolutely no player skill involved in this endeavour.
Nobody likes it, we put up with it because there are other actually enjoyable features in this fine game.
Get it?
I can explain what counts as a player skill if you want me to.

jcm2606

Hochstapler wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Edit: practice it . Really work on it and you will get it down. I did and some fairly casual players I run with some got it figured out because they wanted to.

Rly bro?
That's what you got out of my posts?
That I can't button mash?

Being that you call it button mashing, yes. Seems like a fitting comment for someone who is challenged by it. Glad you got it down.

Nobody likes it

I like it.