If someone can judge other MMO players gender by their userID with a 100 percent accuracy, then I have a group of young mutants that needs teaching by you, professor!

But if we already talking about things that could never happen, someone please show me a screenshot of a pug group chat where the subject of the player's gender comes up naturally. I'm just trying to imagine a scenario where this could happen really.
Group formed. - Hi! Hi! Are you guys boys? Why? Cause girls are lame! I am a girl, how dare you!
Does this happen really, ever?
Or you saying that the first conclusion that an MMO player arrives when group dps is low is "Wow, dps is low, are you guys girls or something?"


I can't believe we have to say this here, but... don't pull the gender card in a social media setting, it never ends well. It's 2018, nobody cares. Can we stop averting precious resources from issues that are real examples of sexism and while we at it, stop throwing that word around, stripping its meaning and weight away?

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

@IndyWendieGo , Cultural hegemony is still a thing. I don't believe you being overly critical of my experiences is helpful at all, especially if it fixates on one thing I said is one example. The original post was a generalized statement as it is quite common to experience it in varying degrees in different gaming communities. A contributing factor is the personal ID. I have the freedom to choose what my personal ID and you can't dictate it or conclude my opinion is invalid based on your own experiences. Being a woman should not prevent a player from experiencing the game's content, end of story. We can't just ignore it because there isn't any evidence for one specific situation.

Also misquoting me is academic misconduct. I didn't attack anyone. I didn't use any insults. I just used words that I assumed you understood but then misconceived the intention. As a result, you feel insulted when there was no ill will explicitly posted. Fixating on one event doesn't help your argument either. I am obviously willing to talk about it without any sense of belittlement that is evidence enough that there really is no bad intentions on my part.

I also explained how I do know there are other reasons to being kicked from that one instance that isn't included in my original post. I shouldn't have to be decked out with the best gear to remain in safe position with a random group. I shouldn't have to be afraid of my feminine personal ID that reflects my personal identity. I am not using that one example for this post, it is a generalized statement as seen on the original post and not quoted comments which often tend to derail anyway 'cause of social implications.

Let's also dissect this, again, because you're dancing willfully around very simple points I addressed;

Cultural hegemony is still a thing. I don't believe you being overly critical of my experiences is helpful at all, especially if it fixates on one thing I said is one example.

Skepticism is different from cultural hegemony. The sooner we're on the same page, the sooner you can actually receive constructive feedback. Respect is earned, not given and when you're slandering people without any tangible evidence, you're giving other women, like myself, a bad platform to stand on in the real world. Blatantly throwing out sexism only perpetuates it, instead of acknowledging for yourself that there is the very high possibility that there was a misunderstanding.

The original post was a generalized statement as it is quite common to experience it in varying degrees in different gaming communities.

Generalizing leads into faulty deductive reasoning. Because this happened once, then that should make this instance the same thing, therefore anytime it happens, it must be due to sexism. It doesn't work that way.

A contributing factor is the personal ID. I have the freedom to choose what my personal ID and you can't dictate it or conclude my opinion is invalid based on your own experiences. Being a woman should not prevent a player from experiencing the game's content, end of story. We can't just ignore it because there isn't any evidence for one specific situation.

In no way shape or form is anyone preventing you from experiencing the game. And the bolded part? You may wanna stop throwing stones when you're living in a glass house.

Being a woman should not prevent a player from experiencing the game's content, end of story. We can't just ignore it because there isn't any evidence for one specific situation.

I've managed several online communities. I will not ostracize anyone without clear, tangible proof. Without it, you're only promoting baseless witch-hunts on generalized assumptions and stories at this point. Which, again, puts women in a bad spot because we can't be taken seriously because of people like you crying wolf all the time.

Also misquoting me is academic misconduct. I didn't attack anyone. I didn't use any insults. I just used words that I assumed you understood but then misconceived the intention. As a result, you feel insulted when there was no ill will explicitly posted.

No. You're using them to get a specific response. There's been plenty that disagree with you that have asked very key questions and you've all but ignored them. Some to better your experience, others to help you figure out where to direct you to, so you CAN at least get a temporary solution that would work until they decide to do what ever they want to do. Instead, you're just wanting to bait people into a fight.

I am obviously willing to talk about it without any sense of belittlement that is evidence enough that there really is no bad intentions on my part.

Then prove it by giving pertinent information. Sexist or not, it'd help us help you if we knew exact situations and details that you so conveniently not only leave out, but completely ignore.

I am not using that one example for this post, it is a generalized statement as seen on the original post and not quoted comments which often tend to derail anyway 'cause of social implications.

What's derailing the thread is that you're not asking questions and instead trying to strong-arm people into giving into your claims. Which this thread should be closed, because it's obvious where you're going to take your own thread.

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

@Thoragaal I am not making any assumptions them specifically. It is a generalized statement based on my experiences through multiple games. Unless indicated otherwise through ; or : or , it has no close relation to the previous sentence but is still relative to the context.

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

[...] ]That way if I get kicked its because I did poorly[...]

You're assuming that the only possible reason for you getting kicked would be because of poor performance.
For example: personally, I would rather let someone with poor performance stay and let them improve and I'm more inclinced to kick someone that's got a bad attitude.
Altough I only ever initiate a kick myself for people that's been DC'd for more than 5-10mins.

Thoragaal wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

@Thoragaal I am not making any assumptions them specifically. It is a generalized statement based on my experiences through multiple games. Unless indicated otherwise through ; or : or , it has no close relation to the previous sentence but is still relative to the context.

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

[...] ]That way if I get kicked its because I did poorly[...]

You're assuming that the only possible reason for you getting kicked would be because of poor performance.
For example: personally, I would rather let someone with poor performance stay and let them improve and I'm more inclinced to kick someone that's got a bad attitude.
Altough I only ever initiate a kick myself for people that's been DC'd for more than 5-10mins.

Yes, thats all I want. If I get kicked it is immediately reduced to poor performance. People will be trolls and I just want the tools to avoid them is all. I deal with the woes of being a woman enough and I don't need it to seep into my game time. The personal ID is not required for the identification process for reports as ZOS has knowledge of accounts linked with certain usernames and have a log of past events aid them.

you answered every single question? which post tells us which platform you're playing on?

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

@IndyWendieGo , Oh my gosh, I gave every single one of them an answer. For that one specific situation it was the other DPS who was the leader and got his associate to pass the vote. I am not using that one specific situation for this post as the original post has no evidence of it but your misrepresentation. I apologized to them too and all but you has accepted it. I already said there are other reasons for it. I do not support witch hunts and I never will. I have not revealed their identities and I refuse to do so in a public place. Again, you are devolving the conversation to that one specific argument. I just want the ID tags to only be available to friends. Why are you so dedicating to disproving my experiences and committing academic misconduct by misquoting me and thinking it gives you the high ground.

What you said is mean-spirited and really only serves to prove my point. If you want to continue to talk. I will only respond if you want another example for why personal IDs should remain personal. I will not argue with you when you quickly resort to personal insults and attacks.

Here we go again.

Oh my gosh, I gave every single one of them an answer. For that one specific situation it was the other DPS who was the leader and got his associate to pass the vote. I am not using that one specific situation for this post as the original post has no evidence of it but your misrepresentation.

We've also asked the following. I'll bold it so I can ensure that you read it this time.
Are you playing on

• PC
• Console

And the only misrepresentation of your statements, are in fact, your own. Without evidence, these things don't progress very well and you, again, painstakingly make it worse for other women who ARE being oppressed under sexist conditions. You haven't issued an honest apology.

I do not support witch hunts and I never will. I have not revealed their identities and I refuse to do so in a public place.

No one said you did, nor insinuating you would. You ARE however trying to rally very specific things in which if there is any opposition; They're either 'committing academic misconduct' or are 'intellectually dishonest'. The only dishonesty is this;

You've flip flopped in a few stories, you're avoidance to answer certain things only lead me to suggest that you're wanting to bait people into a fight and then point at them saying "I AM BEING OPPRESSED". It's not constructive, and you're just derailing it further.

What you said is mean-spirited and really only serves to prove my point. If you want to continue to talk. I will only respond if you want another example for why personal IDs should remain personal. I will not argue with you when you quickly resort to personal insults and attacks.

I haven't called you anything. Yet you're here saying people are performing 'academic misconduct' (it's a video game forum, not a school) and calling people the following;

1. Sexist
2. Intellectually dishonest

And you're saying I'm insulting and attacking YOU?

jabrone77 wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

@IndyWendieGo , Oh my gosh, I gave every single one of them an answer. For that one specific situation it was the other DPS who was the leader and got his associate to pass the vote. I am not using that one specific situation for this post as the original post has no evidence of it but your misrepresentation. I apologized to them too and all but you has accepted it. I already said there are other reasons for it. I do not support witch hunts and I never will. I have not revealed their identities and I refuse to do so in a public place. Again, you are devolving the conversation to that one specific argument. I just want the ID tags to only be available to friends. Why are you so dedicating to disproving my experiences and committing academic misconduct by misquoting me and thinking it gives you the high ground.

What you said is mean-spirited and really only serves to prove my point. If you want to continue to talk. I will only respond if you want another example for why personal IDs should remain personal. I will not argue with you when you quickly resort to personal insults and attacks.

Oh..I understand now.
You're bat *** crazy.....

No wonder you got kicked

I don't think insulting them helps any. In any case, I'd probably just report them as they're obviously baiting at this point.

When creating your tag you were not forced to put your name. Or miss...or lady... or anything that identifies you as a girl.

That being said...I can’t say I’ve ever seen someone be targeted in such a manner simply because they are a girl, so why would it matter.

@IndyWendieGo , Okay I can't let this slide. I have one PC account and one Xbox account. I am not treating this like an academic article, I am using that term in response to your criticism of how I conduct myself in arguments which plainly is quite good I say. Someone insulted me and I am being denied the validity of my own experiences due to your misrepresentation of me.

Examples of parallels with the same argument of identification processes.

Colored people are less likely to get a call back from HR managers than people with a more "white" name.
“white applicants receive 36% more callbacks than equally qualified African Americans”
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/9/18/16307782/study-racism-jobs

White fragility constructs a defensive position against such racism in the process of employment
"It’s fascinating when white people, who invariably have no personal experience of the frequent othering and subtle prejudice that comes from being born or raised in a country that does not recognise your unconditional right to its identity, tell you what you have and have not experienced."

"white fragility operates powerfully against progress; that there are those in our society, including high-profile and influential people, who prefer defensiveness to a cold, hard analysis of the patterns of prejudice."
https://medium.com/@SarahWoodwriter/13-rules-of-life-an-antidote-for-male-fragility-5c05717b2de8

As you can see these same processes are in-effect but this isn't HR or a government job. As a game it can afford to give the standard of privacy to subvert potential discrimination. A player does not need the personal ID tag to report a player as shown in WoW's history. Bnet provided real IDs but also provided an alternative and ultimately gave the player the option to who they want to share that information with.

In retrospect, I agree, the discussion as it has unraveled isn't pertinent to this forum other than the suggestions offered re: changing the gamer-tag name if you are feeling that it is a tool for discrimination as is.

This thread is so time consuming and filled with tension and hostility. Is it really worth it? There is no need to tackle the OP for the original intent. And there is no need for the OP to fiercely justify herself against them. This is going nowhere.

There really isn't a need for the username to be hidden. What's the problem here? The fact that people can know your username? Or your gender? While I agree that gender shouldn't be publicly displayed, I don't see the point of hidding an username, other than malicious intent. And no one can know the gender of an other player without asking them, they can only assume based on your username. So, if one doesn't want people to guess their gender right, there is a pretty obvious solution.

Anyway, it went off-topic, and should hopefully be closed.

Yes

drama!