Game should not show Gametag ID

Brittany_Joy

Whenever a team does poorly or whenever a group needs someone to blame for their losses the trolls are more inclined to blame the lady in the group. If I heal, tank, dps people make snap judgments on how well I will do in the event and are overtly critical of my performance. It is frustrating to have to deal with sexism because the game decided to take it out of my hands to show the world my personal ID gametag. ZOS can't change the world and I don't expect them to. However, I would like it if the game gave me the choice to choose who knows my personal ID tag. This wouldn't be an issue if I am allowed to change my ID tag, but I also shouldn't be ashamed of my personal identification choice. As a result, the game shouldn't act like sexism doesn't exist and take away that shroud of safety from female gamers.

[Edit: Get some popcorn 'cause its going to be a wild ride of absolutely nothing.]

kadochka

Having the choice to hide it would be a nice addition..
And those people are a--holes, try to ignore them, dear.

ValorieW

Nah. I very rarely see sexism in game. I’m a lady and on mic usually... have you considered that maybe you just aren’t that good?

Morgul667

I would prefer we can hide the usersID yes

Brittany_Joy

ValorieW wrote: »

Nah. I very rarely see sexism in game. I’m a lady and on mic usually... have you considered that maybe you just aren’t that good?

Cultural hegemony is also a thing. A lady blind to the social nuances really doesn't discredit the underlying theme of sexism. People stereotype! I just want the game to give me the choice to who I choose to show my personal ID.

As for your ill-mannered quote, I did more than half the damage in the group. I can achieve top kda ratios in BGs with my meager equipment because I comprehend the concept of positioning, focusing, and switching targets. Maybe with a full set I can perform exceptionally well as to not displease those trolls. Unfortunately, just like everyone else and just like a normal person I have to start from somewhere and need to be given the chance to play the game's content without fearing ostracism.

ArchMikem

Not even gonna try to squeeze into the underlying issue claimed here,though yeah I wouldn't mind hiding our @ name/gamertag at all.

TaliColdwater

I wish there was a way to turn off gamertag display too. I'm sorry this has happened to you. It really sucks. In my experience, I've heard guys oversexualize everything when they suddenly see what they think is a female gamertag enter the area. Or they flock to her and point out how her character looks if she's playing a female (talk about character's chest, body shape, etc.) or ask why she's playing a male character if that's the case (why are you playing a guy when you're a girl? do you wish you were a guy? do you like girls? etc.) I play on my husband's gamertag so no one knows I'm female until I talk into my mic for some reason (because it's usually off).

Tholian1

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Whenever a team does poorly or whenever a group needs someone to blame for their losses the trolls are more inclined to blame the lady in the group. If I heal, tank, dps people make snap judgments on how well I will do in the event and are overtly critical of my performance. It is frustrating to have to deal with sexism because the game decided to take it out of my hands to show the world my personal ID gametag. ZOS can't change the world and I don't expect them to. However, I would like it if the game gave me the choice to choose who knows my personal ID tag. This wouldn't be an issue if I am allowed to change my ID tag, but I also shouldn't be ashamed of my personal identification choice. As a result, the game shouldn't act like sexism doesn't exist and take away that shroud of safety from female gamers.

It was suggested during the console beta to show character name instead of gamer tag and it was ignored. At least they allowed us to show our character names eventually.

Brittany_Joy

Tholian1 wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Whenever a team does poorly or whenever a group needs someone to blame for their losses the trolls are more inclined to blame the lady in the group. If I heal, tank, dps people make snap judgments on how well I will do in the event and are overtly critical of my performance. It is frustrating to have to deal with sexism because the game decided to take it out of my hands to show the world my personal ID gametag. ZOS can't change the world and I don't expect them to. However, I would like it if the game gave me the choice to choose who knows my personal ID tag. This wouldn't be an issue if I am allowed to change my ID tag, but I also shouldn't be ashamed of my personal identification choice. As a result, the game shouldn't act like sexism doesn't exist and take away that shroud of safety from female gamers.

It was suggested during the console beta to show character name instead of gamer tag and it was ignored. At least they allowed us to show our character names eventually.

I know, I was one of the people who commented on one of those posts. They got rid of the disagree, lol buttons. I don't see why only allowing our friends to know our personal ID would be a step too far for them.

MaxJrFTW

There's plenty of dudes out there pretending to be females, with female names and female characters and this doesn't happen to them. Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the fact you're a woman, and more with the fact that you need to improve.

Judas Helviaryn

As a result, the game shouldn't act like sexism doesn't exist and take away that shroud of safety from female gamers.

How about instead of blaming the system for making you vulnerable, in your eyes, why don't we just focus on the sexist trolls instead? Fearing being a pariah on a video game is quite silly, considering the sheer amount of people playing daily. You ran into some bad eggs, they're the reason they act that way, not the game, not you, not whatever cosmic sign might be hanging over their heads. Just them.

I mean honestly, I've been antagonizing people from the first moment I started playing with others, and I'm still here with plenty of good people around me.

Whenever a team does poorly or whenever a group needs someone to blame for their losses the trolls are more inclined to blame the lady in the group. If I heal, tank, dps people make snap judgments on how well I will do in the event and are overtly critical of my performance.

As an aside, I didn't see exactly how you determined they were judging you based on your sex or gender. Is there anything more specific, or are you just assuming that must be it, because of the constant hatorade?

RayneHalo

I would like the option to just see/display characters names

static_recharge

You can freely change your game user ID in the account settings on the webpage.

Mureel

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

ValorieW wrote: »

Nah. I very rarely see sexism in game. I’m a lady and on mic usually... have you considered that maybe you just aren’t that good?

Cultural hegemony is also a thing. A lady blind to the social nuances really doesn't discredit the underlying theme of sexism. People stereotype! I just want the game to give me the choice to who I choose to show my personal ID.

As for your ill-mannered quote, I did more than half the damage in the group. I can achieve top kda ratios in BGs with my meager equipment because I comprehend the concept of positioning, focusing, and switching targets. Maybe with a full set I can perform exceptionally well as to not displease those trolls. Unfortunately, just like everyone else and just like a normal person I have to start from somewhere and need to be given the chance to play the game's content without fearing ostracism.

NEVERMIND. I cba.

Brittany_Joy

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

As an aside, I didn't see exactly how you determined they were judging you based on your sex or gender. Is there anything more specific, or are you just assuming that must be it, because of the constant hatorade?

To fully answer your question, I believe it was my personal ID tag that influenced their decision to remove the highest DPS of the group due to the group's failure to complete the activity. Then that leads us to my original post. In situations of strife, people will make judgments based on their views of who is most valuable to the group. Unfortunately, people tend to have questionable values and sometimes will only view players through a stereotypical lens. Just to play the content I should not have to come out of the door decked out in full gear to decimate the dungeon to avoid ostracism due to my ID tag.

Secondly, when I legit performed poorly were my name was ambiguous about my gender I surprisingly never got kicked. My mannerisms, comments, and playstyle is often mistaken for a man (said by all my gamer friends). When I suck at a game and people think I am a man they don't assume the group failed because of me but because the content is generally difficult- the same cannot be said if they thought I was a woman.

EDIT: Another scenario is if they are a premade, they tend to kick the odd one out, which is understandable.
2nd Edit: Cut some paragraphs cause too long.

Judas Helviaryn

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

As an aside, I didn't see exactly how you determined they were judging you based on your sex or gender. Is there anything more specific, or are you just assuming that must be it, because of the constant hatorade?

Relevancy reveals the inferred notion. It happens across all games, to deny the reality of sexism in gaming culture is just outright intellectual dishonesty. Surprisingly, the games I experience the most ostracism is in games were the developers thought it was okay to reveal personal ID tags to the public. Even these conversations on this thread aid my assumption as the deniers suggest that sexism is not the reality of the situation based on their anecdotal evidence.

To fully answer your question, I believe it was my personal ID tag that influenced their decision to remove the highest DPS of the group due to the group's failure to complete the activity. Then that leads us to my original post. In situations of strife, people will make judgments based on their views of who is most valuable to the group. Unfortunately, people tend to have questionable values and sometimes will only view players through a stereotypical lens. Just to play the content I should not have to come out of the door decked out in full gear to decimate the dungeon to avoid ostracism due to my ID tag.

In cases were I do perform poorly, which does happen as no one starts up ESO and automatically is given the best gear in the game. Across all games, when I legit performed poorly were my name was ambiguous about my gender I surprisingly never got kicked. My mannerisms, comments, and playstyle is often mistaken for a man (said by all my gamer friends). When I suck at a game and people think I am a man they don't assume the group failed because of me but because the content is generally difficult- the same cannot be said if they thought I was a woman.

Well here's the thing.. I'm not trying to base this on my own anecdotal evidence, and you evidently are, as inferred by the first paragraph in your response. You believe you experience ostracism in games where the developers reveal personal ID tags to the layman. Anecdote is never ideal for a straight answer or conclusion, empirical evidence is. That is what I was asking for, what definitive proof do you have that they were acting on sexist notions, and nothing else?

To your second paragraph, you say you believe it was your personal ID, the ID showing you may indeed be a woman, that influenced the decision of the group to remove you. Indeed, if you were the highest DPS contributor out of a typical dungeon group, the only other person who would even know you contributed the most would be the one other DPS player, as the healer and tank would have lower relative DPS values and couldn't tell you and the other DPS apart. You indeed shouldn't have to come out of the gate decked out in endgame gear, that is true, but I don't see why you consider your equipment choice or proficiency relevant to being kicked if this party is indeed not even judging you on it, but sex alone.

Sexism is alive and well, and it would be silly to deny it, but it would also be ridiculous to buy into confirmation bias, fed into by anecdote often second-hand, and fool yourself into thinking more instances than not, of conflict, are a result of said bias. On your statement about being perceived as a man online, rather than a woman, it's quite curious that you consider the mannerisms of the ideal man and woman to be so different in gaming culture, when the chief value of this entire discussion should be about the similarities of men and women, not what makes them stand apart from eachother, on the issue of sex alone.

So again, what exactly was said to make you believe they were sexist?

Brittany_Joy

static_recharge wrote: »

You can freely change your game user ID in the account settings on the webpage.

Thats another problem. I accidentally used up my free name change to get rid of the numbers and accidentally saved the change way back on Release Day. I am stuck with this name due to an accident, so yeah.

Mureel wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

ValorieW wrote: »

Nah. I very rarely see sexism in game. I’m a lady and on mic usually... have you considered that maybe you just aren’t that good?

Cultural hegemony is also a thing. A lady blind to the social nuances really doesn't discredit the underlying theme of sexism. People stereotype! I just want the game to give me the choice to who I choose to show my personal ID.

As for your ill-mannered quote, I did more than half the damage in the group. I can achieve top kda ratios in BGs with my meager equipment because I comprehend the concept of positioning, focusing, and switching targets. Maybe with a full set I can perform exceptionally well as to not displease those trolls. Unfortunately, just like everyone else and just like a normal person I have to start from somewhere and need to be given the chance to play the game's content without fearing ostracism.

THIS - End Game raider on my healer and DPS, here - and I am *That Good* and yet, some guys when I tank (tanked every damn DLC hm in game except VMOS so far!), *because this is how they're culturally inclined* still think they can tank better - even when they themselves never have tanked any of the stuff I have.

Either you're 'that gamergrl' or your're likely oblivious to it. Or you're just really lucky and your community happens to be nice and contain only men on holiday from Themyscira.

Your comment was pretty rude and for no reason really.

I'm sorry, did I insult you somehow? I don't see the connection between my said comment and yours.

Mureel

A

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

You can freely change your game user ID in the account settings on the webpage.

Thats another problem. I accidentally used up my free name change to get rid of the numbers and accidentally saved the change way back on Release Day. I am stuck with this name due to an accident, so yeah.

Mureel wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

ValorieW wrote: »

Nah. I very rarely see sexism in game. I’m a lady and on mic usually... have you considered that maybe you just aren’t that good?

Cultural hegemony is also a thing. A lady blind to the social nuances really doesn't discredit the underlying theme of sexism. People stereotype! I just want the game to give me the choice to who I choose to show my personal ID.

As for your ill-mannered quote, I did more than half the damage in the group. I can achieve top kda ratios in BGs with my meager equipment because I comprehend the concept of positioning, focusing, and switching targets. Maybe with a full set I can perform exceptionally well as to not displease those trolls. Unfortunately, just like everyone else and just like a normal person I have to start from somewhere and need to be given the chance to play the game's content without fearing ostracism.

@Valer
THIS - End Game raider on my healer and DPS, here - and I am *That Good* and yet, some guys when I tank (tanked every damn DLC hm in game except VMOS so far!), *because this is how they're culturally inclined* still think they can tank better - even when they themselves never have tanked any of the stuff I have.

Either you're 'that gamergrl' or your're likely oblivious to it. Or you're just really lucky and your community happens to be nice and contain only men on holiday from Themyscira.

Your comment was pretty rude and for no reason really.

I'm sorry, did I insult you somehow? I don't see the connection between my said comment and yours.

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

You can freely change your game user ID in the account settings on the webpage.

Thats another problem. I accidentally used up my free name change to get rid of the numbers and accidentally saved the change way back on Release Day. I am stuck with this name due to an accident, so yeah.

Mureel wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

ValorieW wrote: »

Nah. I very rarely see sexism in game. I’m a lady and on mic usually... have you considered that maybe you just aren’t that good?

Cultural hegemony is also a thing. A lady blind to the social nuances really doesn't discredit the underlying theme of sexism. People stereotype! I just want the game to give me the choice to who I choose to show my personal ID.

As for your ill-mannered quote, I did more than half the damage in the group. I can achieve top kda ratios in BGs with my meager equipment because I comprehend the concept of positioning, focusing, and switching targets. Maybe with a full set I can perform exceptionally well as to not displease those trolls. Unfortunately, just like everyone else and just like a normal person I have to start from somewhere and need to be given the chance to play the game's content without fearing ostracism.

THIS - End Game raider on my healer and DPS, here - and I am *That Good* and yet, some guys when I tank (tanked every damn DLC hm in game except VMOS so far!), *because this is how they're culturally inclined* still think they can tank better - even when they themselves never have tanked any of the stuff I have.

Either you're 'that gamergrl' or your're likely oblivious to it. Or you're just really lucky and your community happens to be nice and contain only men on holiday from Themyscira.

Your comment was pretty rude and for no reason really.

I'm sorry, did I insult you somehow? I don't see the connection between my said comment and yours.

I should have tagged valorie; I agreed with you - if that's not painfully obvious by my post :P but I don;t really feel like being involved in 'I'm a victim and everyone is a perp' drama rn so Imma delete my replies.

I agree with you; but I don't feel like doing the whole Facebook thing on the forum.

Brittany_Joy

Mureel wrote: »

A

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

You can freely change your game user ID in the account settings on the webpage.

Thats another problem. I accidentally used up my free name change to get rid of the numbers and accidentally saved the change way back on Release Day. I am stuck with this name due to an accident, so yeah.

Mureel wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

ValorieW wrote: »

Nah. I very rarely see sexism in game. I’m a lady and on mic usually... have you considered that maybe you just aren’t that good?

Cultural hegemony is also a thing. A lady blind to the social nuances really doesn't discredit the underlying theme of sexism. People stereotype! I just want the game to give me the choice to who I choose to show my personal ID.

As for your ill-mannered quote, I did more than half the damage in the group. I can achieve top kda ratios in BGs with my meager equipment because I comprehend the concept of positioning, focusing, and switching targets. Maybe with a full set I can perform exceptionally well as to not displease those trolls. Unfortunately, just like everyone else and just like a normal person I have to start from somewhere and need to be given the chance to play the game's content without fearing ostracism.

@Valer
THIS - End Game raider on my healer and DPS, here - and I am *That Good* and yet, some guys when I tank (tanked every damn DLC hm in game except VMOS so far!), *because this is how they're culturally inclined* still think they can tank better - even when they themselves never have tanked any of the stuff I have.

Either you're 'that gamergrl' or your're likely oblivious to it. Or you're just really lucky and your community happens to be nice and contain only men on holiday from Themyscira.

Your comment was pretty rude and for no reason really.

I'm sorry, did I insult you somehow? I don't see the connection between my said comment and yours.

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

static_recharge wrote: »

You can freely change your game user ID in the account settings on the webpage.

Thats another problem. I accidentally used up my free name change to get rid of the numbers and accidentally saved the change way back on Release Day. I am stuck with this name due to an accident, so yeah.

Mureel wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

ValorieW wrote: »

Nah. I very rarely see sexism in game. I’m a lady and on mic usually... have you considered that maybe you just aren’t that good?

Cultural hegemony is also a thing. A lady blind to the social nuances really doesn't discredit the underlying theme of sexism. People stereotype! I just want the game to give me the choice to who I choose to show my personal ID.

As for your ill-mannered quote, I did more than half the damage in the group. I can achieve top kda ratios in BGs with my meager equipment because I comprehend the concept of positioning, focusing, and switching targets. Maybe with a full set I can perform exceptionally well as to not displease those trolls. Unfortunately, just like everyone else and just like a normal person I have to start from somewhere and need to be given the chance to play the game's content without fearing ostracism.

THIS - End Game raider on my healer and DPS, here - and I am *That Good* and yet, some guys when I tank (tanked every damn DLC hm in game except VMOS so far!), *because this is how they're culturally inclined* still think they can tank better - even when they themselves never have tanked any of the stuff I have.

Either you're 'that gamergrl' or your're likely oblivious to it. Or you're just really lucky and your community happens to be nice and contain only men on holiday from Themyscira.

Your comment was pretty rude and for no reason really.

I'm sorry, did I insult you somehow? I don't see the connection between my said comment and yours.

I should have tagged valorie; I agreed with you - if that's not painfully obvious by my post :P but I don;t really feel like being involved in 'I'm a victim and everyone is a perp' drama rn so Imma delete my replies.

I agree with you; but I don't feel like doing the whole Facebook thing on the forum.

Oh, I understand. Kinda sucks that you feel that way though. I hate being the 'victim'. All I want is the game to give me the choice to reveal my personal ID tag to only my friends and not the whole world. As if sexism doesn't exist, I know it exists and I just want to be given the tools to avoid it.

Brittany_Joy

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

That is what I was asking for, what definitive proof do you have that they were acting on sexist notions, and nothing else?



So again, what exactly was said to make you believe they were sexist?

1. First question, infer is different from conjecture. I stated the reality of the situation; I was top DPS in a Veteran dungeon (performance wasn't exceptionally high but it was adequate). The leader of the group was the other DPS. Vote to kick was initiated. Unfortunately, it is quite popular to kick the odd one out or the lady of the group because ladies are pigeonholed with blame for the group's failure. Several events within the dungeon I did 25%-65% of the total damage dealt. The problem may have risen because I entered the dungeon with PvP gear still equipped and the beginning mob fight made me realize I had to switch gear sets. After that, I was able to contribute modestly to the group activity. All they have seen was my HP pool, my ID tag, and my DPS magically changing with the switch of gear sets. A rough start combined with my ID tag was enough for them to exclude me from the group activity. Again, I am not using one instance. I am using multiple instances across my lifetime. Empirical evidence is simply documented anecdotal evidence. I shouldn't have to conduct a nationwide survey to persuade you.
2. Actions speak louder than words. For example; a nation can exclaim their forward thinking by punishing racism but underneath the lines sterilize women of color in an act of making the population 'pure'. Sexism is not deduced from words but from actions. If they only made a few sexist comments, I would easily ignore them and continue on with my adventures. Unfortunately, sexism is systemic actions against women and my experience can be influenced by the overarching social structures.

Judas Helviaryn

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

That is what I was asking for, what definitive proof do you have that they were acting on sexist notions, and nothing else?



So again, what exactly was said to make you believe they were sexist?

1. First question, infer is different from conjecture. I stated the reality of the situation; I was top DPS in a Veteran dungeon (performance wasn't exceptionally high but it was adequate). The leader of the group was the other DPS. Vote to kick was initiated. Unfortunately, it is quite popular to kick the odd one out or the lady of the group because ladies are pigeonholed with blame for the group's failure. Several events within the dungeon I did 25%-65% of the total damage dealt. The problem may have risen because I entered the dungeon with PvP gear still equipped and the beginning mob fight made me realize I had to switch gear sets. After that, I was able to contribute modestly to the group activity. All they have seen was my HP pool, my ID tag, and my DPS magically changing with the switch of gear sets. A rough start combined with my ID tag was enough for them to exclude me from the group activity. Again, I am not using one instance. I am using multiple instances across my lifetime. Empirical evidence is simply documented anecdotal evidence. I shouldn't have to conduct a nationwide survey to persuade you.
2. Actions speak louder than words. For example; a nation can exclaim their forward thinking by punishing racism but underneath the lines sterilize women of color in an act of making the population 'pure'. Sexism is not deduced from words but from actions. If they only made a few sexist comments, I would easily ignore them and continue on with my adventures. Unfortunately, sexism is systemic actions against women and my experience can be influenced by the overarching social structures.

So in totality, you neither want, nor apparently can, provide said irrefutable evidence of sexist motives, and instead prefer to explain sideways around the issue.

You are a victim of your own confirmation bias. You assume that you will be judged on your sex, and so it is all that you see.

I wish I could help you, and there is indeed a fine line between victim blaming, and digging your own ditch, but the difference is lack of malice from the supposed antagonizing party.

You have not proved that you are a victim, as seems to be your goal.

PrayingSeraph

I'm not even going to open the can of worms that is "systemic actions against women influenced by overarching social structures"

However OP, I still have yet to see anything you have said that evidently suggests you were kicked just because you were a woman. People get kicked all the time, and sometimes it does not make sense why. Many guys use female characters and don't seem to experience any sexism or impactful sexism.

As mentioned above, general dps isn't always observable by other players, with the exception of the other dps. Tank and Healer won't know the difference between the players usually

Gnozo

Welcome to 2018.

If someone performs Bad at his role. Either doing less then 5k dps, light attacking instead of taunting as tank or a healer with a 2h heavy attacking the boss i harrass them, doesnt matter if they are female, male or Apache helicopter.

John_Falstaff

@Brittany_Joy , so, just to be precise, the dungeon began with you geared up for PvP? Mind, that might be what irked your group - people sometimes kick others even randomly, and I happened to run pug groups couple of times when a high CP someone with two-hander will cause a stray whisper straight from the start ('oh look, we're running with PvPer...'). I often run with a friend, so we wouldn't ever judge PvP-geared people and just continue, but I can imagine how people can kick simply because of that. Or if they'll see sword+board, and switching later would probably pass unnoticed if they already have first impression.

Plus Judas is right, one would wonder if there was any back-and-forth in the group chat. Healer and tank can't see which DPS does which share of damage.

Brittany_Joy

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

That is what I was asking for, what definitive proof do you have that they were acting on sexist notions, and nothing else?



So again, what exactly was said to make you believe they were sexist?

1. All they have seen was my HP pool, my ID tag, and my DPS magically changing with the switch of gear sets.

So in totality, you neither want, nor apparently can, provide said irrefutable evidence of sexist motives, and instead prefer to explain sideways around the issue.

You are a victim of your own confirmation bias. You assume that you will be judged on your sex, and so it is all that you see.

I wish I could help you, and there is indeed a fine line between victim blaming, and digging your own ditch, but the difference is lack of malice from the supposed antagonizing party.

You have not proved that you are a victim, as seems to be your goal.

I provided the evidence. Intellectual dishonesty prevents you from seeing it. Irrefutable evidence of one situation proves what exactly? That sexism doesn't exist and that any notion of sexism in gaming culture requires a major crime criteria of "beyond a reasonable doubt'' in order to be taken seriously.

I am no 'victim', I refuse to be named as such. I am simply making the post to emphasize the importance of allowing players to have the choice of who they reveal their personal ID tag to. In an effort to strengthen my claim I provided examples and you are poking holes in one specific example in an effort to further your own agenda. I have no hatred for you and I do not confuse sexism with 'being mean'. But what exactly are you trying to prove with your comments?

Edit: @John_Falstaff and @PrayingSeraph , the post isn't about that one example of ostracism due to my personal ID tag. That example is just one I can name. The leader could have been the other DPS and that could have been the primary reason I got removed from the group. So that specific situation is this: Other DPS is leader; both DPS have DPS addons or not, I pull 25%-65% of DPS beside the first trash mob; Said DPS continued the dungeon and others not affiliated with the DPS left the group. That is just one example I provided to why I want to be able to choose who I reveal my ID tag too. I can't write a novel of all instances and provide surveyed data to prove my point, I mean I can but I don't want to 'cause why would I have to provide so much more evidence just to be taken seriously?

Judas Helviaryn

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

That is what I was asking for, what definitive proof do you have that they were acting on sexist notions, and nothing else?



So again, what exactly was said to make you believe they were sexist?

1. All they have seen was my HP pool, my ID tag, and my DPS magically changing with the switch of gear sets.

So in totality, you neither want, nor apparently can, provide said irrefutable evidence of sexist motives, and instead prefer to explain sideways around the issue.

You are a victim of your own confirmation bias. You assume that you will be judged on your sex, and so it is all that you see.

I wish I could help you, and there is indeed a fine line between victim blaming, and digging your own ditch, but the difference is lack of malice from the supposed antagonizing party.

You have not proved that you are a victim, as seems to be your goal.

I provided the evidence. Intellectual dishonesty prevents you from seeing it. Irrefutable evidence of one situation proves what exactly? That sexism doesn't exist and that any notion of sexism in gaming culture requires a major crime criteria of "beyond a reasonable doubt'' in order to be taken seriously.

I am no 'victim', I refuse to be named as such. I am simply making the post to emphasize the importance of allowing players to have the choice of who they reveal their personal ID tag to. In an effort to strengthen my claim I provided examples and you are poking holes in one specific example in an effort to further your own agenda. I have no hatred for you and I do not confuse sexism with 'being mean'. But what exactly are you trying to prove with your comments?

You provided no evidence. You provided your own convictions, which may or may not be misbegotten based upon past experiences. I won't pretend to dissect who you are or how you think, but you can't say one thing, or nothing, and pretend that you didn't, or did.

You're already assuming I have an ulterior motive here, and outright calling me "intellectually dishonest" for asking you to definitively prove your claims. This is conducive to my own assertion that you may be operating off of your own confirmation bias, as I have illustrated above for you.

Any assertion made without evidence can be refuted, without evidence. What exactly did they say to suggest sexist motives, before you were kicked from the group?

ssorgatem

Come on.
Tanks and healers always get blamed when the group doesn't work.
I've been called a "terrible tank" by a DD that did < 10K DPS!
And on a male character...

Toxic a**holes exist, and they will blame you and attack you regardless.
If they think you are a female, they'll use it to attack you. But if they don't, they'll use something else; they will attack you regardless...

Aluneth

I've never seen or been in a group where a player has been removed because of their gender.

- Attitude
- Drama
- Politics (including gender politics)
- Bad player
- Slow player
- Low level
- Geographical location (Russians in WoW as an example)
- *** n' giggles (often friend/guild groups)
...

There are many reasons, and most of them are stupid, but I've never seen or heard of a female being kicked because of their gender. It's often one or more of the above reasons.

Did you communicate with them in the run?
How far into the dungeon were you?

The way I understand it: you got kicked half way through the dungeon, or at least not the start of it. If they wanted to kick you for being a female, wouldn't they have done so from the start?

FleetwoodSmack

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

That is what I was asking for, what definitive proof do you have that they were acting on sexist notions, and nothing else?



So again, what exactly was said to make you believe they were sexist?

1. All they have seen was my HP pool, my ID tag, and my DPS magically changing with the switch of gear sets.

So in totality, you neither want, nor apparently can, provide said irrefutable evidence of sexist motives, and instead prefer to explain sideways around the issue.

You are a victim of your own confirmation bias. You assume that you will be judged on your sex, and so it is all that you see.

I wish I could help you, and there is indeed a fine line between victim blaming, and digging your own ditch, but the difference is lack of malice from the supposed antagonizing party.

You have not proved that you are a victim, as seems to be your goal.

I provided the evidence. Intellectual dishonesty prevents you from seeing it. Irrefutable evidence of one situation proves what exactly? That sexism doesn't exist and that any notion of sexism in gaming culture requires a major crime criteria of "beyond a reasonable doubt'' in order to be taken seriously.

I am no 'victim', I refuse to be named as such. I am simply making the post to emphasize the importance of allowing players to have the choice of who they reveal their personal ID tag to. In an effort to strengthen my claim I provided examples and you are poking holes in one specific example in an effort to further your own agenda. I have no hatred for you and I do not confuse sexism with 'being mean'. But what exactly are you trying to prove with your comments?

You have not provided anything that is tangible, definitive proof aside from that you were simply kicked. There's a plethora of reasons why you'd be kicked from a dungeon;

• Not performing group mechanics.
• Not staying with the group.
• Not performing group functions (DPS should be rezzing other DPS, etc).
• Spamming nothing but light attacks.
• Unconventional builds.
• Low CP.

And that list goes on and on and on. If you've been here long enough, you'll know that groupfinder groups tend to kick for pretty asinine reasons, but claiming that it's mostly sexist-based kicks is... Well... You can't expect people to believe you just from what you say.

We literally know nothing about you, what characters and builds you were running, what dungeons you were in, which bosses you were fighting, nor how far in you were kicked in the dungeon. Do you have screenshots of them intending to kick you because you're a female? If not, then I'm sorry; I don't see that as sexist.

I will not deny that there is sexism in games. I've seen it in other MMOs, but I've been lucky enough to find a crowd in which if there is; It's pretty quiet and generally when found they're promptly kicked. As they should be. However, from what you've presented, there seems to be more of an agenda on your part due to the lack of evidence and the baited statements rather than anyone else here.

Since we're editing posts here;

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Edit: @John_Falstaff and @PrayingSeraph , the post isn't about that one example of ostracism due to my personal ID tag. That example is just one I can name. The leader could have been the other DPS and that could have been the primary reason I got removed from the group. So that specific situation is this: Other DPS is leader; both DPS have DPS addons or not, I pull 25%-65% of DPS beside the first trash mob; Said DPS continued the dungeon and others not affiliated with the DPS left the group. That is just one example I provided to why I want to be able to choose who I reveal my ID tag too. I can't write a novel of all instances and provide surveyed data to prove my point, I mean I can but I don't want to 'cause why would I have to provide so much more evidence just to be taken seriously?

Here's also something you're going back on, going back through the comments. You said the other DPS was the group leader, yet here they say they COULD have been, which implies that you have no idea.

Furthermore, if you're on PC; You can still change your name for free. I get that implication based on the mentioning of the other DPS was using addons (which can't happen on consoles). If you're console, then I have no idea. But I know several people who were able to change their name as if they were underwear.

FleetwoodSmack

Double post.

malicia

"personal ID tag" - is that the @handle, or something on console that PC doesn't have?

Personally I would always want the player base to have access to a unique, visible identifier for each player, simply to allow guilds to make sure that someone kicked for whatever reason doesn't rejoin simply under another user name.

Also, in guild chat most of us want to see the @handle as we want to know who we're speaking to. Learning all your friends/guidlies' chars' names is a bit much.

Won't a much simpler solution to the OP's conundrum be to simply choose gender neutral ID tags? I have in-game friends whom I have no idea whether they're male or female, as they don't use voice chat and their @handles are gender neutral.