Skyshards account bound

TheTombstone · November 2018

Not true. It all depends on the builds you want to go for and how much xp you want to go for.

Elsonso · November 2018

Swomp23 wrote: »

Yes, but role playing game can mean different things for different people. To some, it’s to project themselves in the skin of their character and experience the quests like if it happened directly to them. To others, like myself, it’s to theorycraft the strongest builds to tackle the most difficult content.

This is actually an interesting statement, since theory crafting the strongest builds is not really part of this sort of role playing. ESO is the sort of role playing game where player's abilities in the game world grow as the character's abilities grow as play progresses. Early advancement options are not always end-game oriented, and end-game abilities must be unlocked to obtain them. This is why we don't run off to the hardest trials after bypasing the tutorial and entering the world as a level 3. In this game, unlocking those abilities is part of the game. Not a distraction from the game, or a mindless grindy diversion, but part of the deliberate intent of the game.

Certainly, theory crafting is part of gaming, and is a common activity in many games, including this one, but it is not role playing. This is a 'god modding' activity, dependent upon a perspective outside that of the character, with an understanding of the world and what makes it go that the character could not have.

You can certainly do theory crafting in the game, and ESO is flexible in that way, but character progression is still tied to the RPG part of the game, and that has to be honored, first.

sulima · November 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Yes, but role playing game can mean different things for different people. To some, it’s to project themselves in the skin of their character and experience the quests like if it happened directly to them. To others, like myself, it’s to theorycraft the strongest builds to tackle the most difficult content.

This is actually an interesting statement, since theory crafting the strongest builds is not really part of this sort of role playing. ESO is the sort of role playing game where player's abilities in the game world grow as the character's abilities grow as play progresses. Early advancement options are not always end-game oriented, and end-game abilities must be unlocked to obtain them. This is why we don't run off to the hardest trials after bypasing the tutorial and entering the world as a level 3. In this game, unlocking those abilities is part of the game. Not a distraction from the game, or a mindless grindy diversion, but part of the deliberate intent of the game.

Certainly, theory crafting is part of gaming, and is a common activity in many games, including this one, but it is not role playing. This is a 'god modding' activity, dependent upon a perspective outside that of the character, with an understanding of the world and what makes it go that the character could not have.

You can certainly do theory crafting in the game, and ESO is flexible in that way, but character progression is still tied to the RPG part of the game, and that has to be honored, first.

I don't get this part... "This is a 'god modding' activity, dependent upon a perspective outside that of the character, with an understanding of the world and what makes it go that the character could not have."

Are you saying a newly created character, on my account, and on my dime that acquired skill points via account bound skillshards "magically" would be a disservice to it?

I ran the old content already (enjoyed it very much), now I want to experience the current relevant content on a new character, and it would be great if that new character came with some of the grind I already invested from old content.

Where is the fun in repeating old content?

Edziu · November 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Yes, but role playing game can mean different things for different people. To some, it’s to project themselves in the skin of their character and experience the quests like if it happened directly to them. To others, like myself, it’s to theorycraft the strongest builds to tackle the most difficult content.

This is actually an interesting statement, since theory crafting the strongest builds is not really part of this sort of role playing. ESO is the sort of role playing game where player's abilities in the game world grow as the character's abilities grow as play progresses. Early advancement options are not always end-game oriented, and end-game abilities must be unlocked to obtain them. This is why we don't run off to the hardest trials after bypasing the tutorial and entering the world as a level 3. In this game, unlocking those abilities is part of the game. Not a distraction from the game, or a mindless grindy diversion, but part of the deliberate intent of the game.

Certainly, theory crafting is part of gaming, and is a common activity in many games, including this one, but it is not role playing. This is a 'god modding' activity, dependent upon a perspective outside that of the character, with an understanding of the world and what makes it go that the character could not have.

You can certainly do theory crafting in the game, and ESO is flexible in that way, but character progression is still tied to the RPG part of the game, and that has to be honored, first.

and to reoleplaying here like @Swomp23 and I meantioned it in other post
our roleplay is doind hard endgame, pvp battles, skriishes etc
our roleplay to fit to be explorers, we want be true fightes who dont peacfuly chilling explore ALL map to collecting something but who just want go for hard endgame or pvp and just fight, plan strategies for battle etc

we dont want to be adventures in our roleplay, we want be just like soldiers but game is forcing us to be explorers via real boring collecting which isnt fun, enjoyable to our roleplay like you enjoy by this exploring

we got burned in exploring all tamriel at 1st time on main character, now on every new we want be just fighters who dont look for exploring world but for battles

mxxo · November 2018

TheTombstone wrote: »

Not true. It all depends on the builds you want to go for and how much xp you want to go for.

You can get over 400 Skillpoints in that game, 150 alone by skyshards, show me the build you nee all of them for (which is not a crafter).

Tsute · November 2018

No. Just no. Part of learning your class, learning the game in general, is exploration. I have 6 characters and hunt skyshards on all of them, often without a map or addons. Is it tedious? A bit. But there are so many things to do in this game - helping with WBs along the way, dolmens, taking that quest I missed my first time through - that I don't really mind. Removing this specific grind would remove many players' motivation to play the game, to learn their class at their own rate. The best players, the ones that knock out Vet everything every week, got that way by finding the skyshards themselves, learning more about their abilities as they went. Fast tracking only creates terrible players who would drop the game after a week because "there's nothing for me to do". Go out, fish, hunt skyshards, build onto that villa we all just got. Stop trying to create reasons to make this game fast and easy. This is not Super Mario Bros. It's not about reaching the final boss in under 5 minutes. It's about the journey. It's always been about the journey.

Gargath · November 2018

TheTombstone wrote: »

And no one would stop you from adventuring, but for those that don't want to be forced to explore every zone in order to get the most out of the game, this would help.

The new situation would stop me. It would help you, maybe, but what helps you, destroys the fun of others. Especially those who spent years on doing the same things multiple times.
ZOS put a hard work into preparing the zones, forcing us to explore them all, which is good, because we make a crowd and have a chance to visit places we already forgot once. Now imagine you gathered all skyshards on single character - you no longer need to visit these places again on your other characters. Thousands of players in same situation. How empty Tamriel would become. If there is no longer need to explore for skyshards, mages guild books, achievements, titles, because in time everything would be account bound on someone's request...
Some people also want a horse training to be account bound, the auction house from SWTOR. The amount of ideas or demands goes up every week. I'm glad ZOS doesn't hear out most of them.
And even if you are a subscriber, it doesn't give you special rights to change the world.

Edziu · November 2018

Tsute wrote: »

No. Just no. Part of learning your class, learning the game in general, is exploration. I have 6 characters and hunt skyshards on all of them, often without a map or addons. Is it tedious? A bit. But there are so many things to do in this game - helping with WBs along the way, dolmens, taking that quest I missed my first time through - that I don't really mind. Removing this specific grind would remove many players' motivation to play the game, to learn their class at their own rate. The best players, the ones that knock out Vet everything every week, got that way by finding the skyshards themselves, learning more about their abilities as they went. Fast tracking only creates terrible players who would drop the game after a week because "there's nothing for me to do". Go out, fish, hunt skyshards, build onto that villa we all just got. Stop trying to create reasons to make this game fast and easy. This is not Super Mario Bros. It's not about reaching the final boss in under 5 minutes. It's about the journey. It's always been about the journey.

what I have just readed?

you didnd read any posts behind 1st one on 1st page?

every experienced player will read or learn from somewhere about this class which he want to create or will just fast learn his class without this damn exploring

like me, I know mostly how classes work, can work while even nor playing most time on every class, I just have many experince by playing with them, seeing how they playing

and like for most expl players its enough to get for skyreach grind to 50lvl and they have enough knowledge about this class how to play and rest what they need its practise in few vet dungs

and please "Removing this specific grind would remove many players"? this for now is removing many players for creating their new alts because they dont want to repeat this, read @TheTombstone #240 post at end on previous page

its for for you and now you ignoring these who dont like this or want to pretend its fun to everyone

wolf486 · November 2018

No and people should be thankful CP is account bound

Edziu · November 2018

Gargath wrote: »

TheTombstone wrote: »

And no one would stop you from adventuring, but for those that don't want to be forced to explore every zone in order to get the most out of the game, this would help.

The new situation would stop me. It would help you, maybe, but what helps you, destroys the fun of others. Especially those who spent years on doing the same things multiple times.
ZOS put a hard work into preparing the zones, forcing us to explore them all, which is good, because we make a crowd and have a chance to visit places we already forgot once. Now imagine you gathered all skyshards on single character - you no longer need to visit these places again on your other characters. Thousands of players in same situation. How empty Tamriel would become. If there is no longer need to explore for skyshards, mages guild books, achievements, titles, because in time everything would be account bound on someone's request...
Some people also want a horse training to be account bound, the auction house from SWTOR. The amount of ideas or demands goes up every week. I'm glad ZOS doesn't hear out for most of them.
And even if you are a subscriber, it doesn't give you special rights to change the world.

now imagine you as you had struggle before you dont want other players to have more pleasure from this game than you telling they also need to struggle by this where we can easy fix it, change to not force player to struggle with boring content

yes, it would help other players who yet dont have every character created but they dont have and wont have done it even soon maybe because of this?

oks you struggled by this boring stupid time wasting grind but is this reason to force other player to struggle this like you?
do you remember old max lvl as 16 vet rank? that was pure real grind, many had many chars at this time and what they got whet it was removed? not so much while now every new player dont need to get these vet ranks, just 50max lvl on char and enough

what you saying is like that as old players struggled to grind their every chat to 16 vet rank and these players will stay at their own to newer remove vet rank, they got it, some struggled it but got so dont remove it only because of newer players! keep it also to vet, force them to grind every new char to 16 vet rank because we had to do it - this is what I see in your opinion in this post like

is it like revenge to newer player? because you struggled with stupid thing in eariel time in this game then newer players also should even when game should evolving in time to be more pleasant for newer player to get more of them playing in it

Edziu · November 2018

wolf486 wrote: »

No and people should be thankful CP is account bound

nah, as I really was playing years on single character because of how I dont whant to grind same thing again and again on every new alt I will have no problem if even cp would be character bound
thats will be real fun to see people will almost never play their alts and with it this game will not have that much meta for specific class as everyone will want to keep their main class to be playable to not be forced to start playing another class because its get to new meta

with your thinking we should have slots not for many different classes but jsut slot for each class to not grind everything over on many other alts while w will have max 5 of them as how many we have classes,

thats what I see in your opinion from perspective of player who dont have time and dont like to make literally same quests and exploration on every character - if that would be atlest different t not be that boring ut isnt and cant be

mxxo · November 2018

Edziu wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

TheTombstone wrote: »

And no one would stop you from adventuring, but for those that don't want to be forced to explore every zone in order to get the most out of the game, this would help.

The new situation would stop me. It would help you, maybe, but what helps you, destroys the fun of others. Especially those who spent years on doing the same things multiple times.
ZOS put a hard work into preparing the zones, forcing us to explore them all, which is good, because we make a crowd and have a chance to visit places we already forgot once. Now imagine you gathered all skyshards on single character - you no longer need to visit these places again on your other characters. Thousands of players in same situation. How empty Tamriel would become. If there is no longer need to explore for skyshards, mages guild books, achievements, titles, because in time everything would be account bound on someone's request...
Some people also want a horse training to be account bound, the auction house from SWTOR. The amount of ideas or demands goes up every week. I'm glad ZOS doesn't hear out for most of them.
And even if you are a subscriber, it doesn't give you special rights to change the world.

now imagine you as you had struggle before you dont want other players to have more pleasure from this game than you telling they also need to struggle by this where we can easy fix it, change to not force player to struggle with boring content

yes, it would help other players who yet dont have every character created but they dont have and wont have done it even soon maybe because of this?

oks you struggled by this boring stupid time wasting grind but is this reason to force other player to struggle this like you?
do you remember old max lvl as 16 vet rank? that was pure real grind, many had many chars at this time and what they got whet it was removed? not so much while now every new player dont need to get these vet ranks, just 50max lvl on char and enough

what you saying is like that as old players struggled to grind their every chat to 16 vet rank and these players will stay at their own to newer remove vet rank, they got it, some struggled it but got so dont remove it only because of newer players! keep it also to vet, force them to grind every new char to 16 vet rank because we had to do it - this is what I see in your opinion in this post like

is it like revenge to newer player? because you struggled with stupid thing in eariel time in this game then newer players also should even when game should evolving in time to be more pleasant for newer player to get more of them playing in it

So you want 150 extra Skillpoints right from the Start? Removing the need for collecting skillpoints? Removing the need for quests, Public Dungeons etc? How often do you create new chars? Every 2nd day? 1 or max 2 Days is enough to get all the Skillpoints you need (on alts that are not crafters).

Gargath · November 2018

Edziu wrote: »

is it like revenge to newer player? because you struggled with stupid thing in eariel time in this game then newer players also should even when game should evolving in time to be more pleasant for newer player to get more of them playing in it

Man, it's so hard to understand your point. Maybe if you were using capitals and dots in a right place, your whole post wouldn't showed up as a single sentence

.

Tandor · November 2018

Edziu wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

One thing no one has addressed is how this would muck up the current achievements you can get from collecting skyshards. Would you be demanding to have access to the dyes you get if you could just buy access to skill points?

Also how would this effect zones outside your chosen alliance? Would you get shards only native to your alliance zones? Or all zones? And wouldn't this mess up Cadwells Silver and Gold?

easy why like they have done with dyes or collectibles - once unlocked on 1 char then avaible for rest while you still can go for achiev for collecting this if its really that mmuch immersive for some ignorants as I see

Ignorants? Excuse me?

as I said in many post before and I see you are on of them who defend shards to be separate for every char while ignoring fact many playrer :
- dont have time to run it on every new char
- dont have any of fun in this running collecting simulator
- its just boring af for many
- and again not everyone have time for this while aslo have no fun running for this

and most is hard defenders of this system because its ok, its immersive for them to have it separately on every char while ignoring rest players who have more problem with this than fun of playing doing this

people who disagree with you = ignorant?

Is that really where you want to stand? That makes sense to you? You really thought that out all the way?

no not only because they disagree with me but because as they disagree they dont have good arguments for this or if they have and argument and it is challenged?undermined? (sorry jsut dont know perfect word for this in english)

you still are going with your argument which was defeated by opposite not only better but also by more good arguments to which you cant, you dont have next argument to stay on your side but you still dont want let rest unhappy players to get an upgrade to their fun

EDIT: thats all wha tI see what you writing, when we got new argument why to my shards account wide you stay nonstop with yout same and stale single argument or just a bit changed but still same instead of finding new argument against us

Classic bully behavior. You are right, everybody else is wrong. Start name calling, and disregarding anything they say. There have been dozens of people who are against this in this thread. But you will ignore their comments and ideas because they don't fit into your view.

so maybe please point my other arguments? maybe I missed some after reading 2 and half page but what I saw why people are against ths:
- this will ruin their immersion
- this will make unbalance for low levels (so I suggested to make it unlockable after max lvl)
- you have time for making new alt - you have time to run all of this again (just lol)
- you have fun doing this so we also should have fun doing this like you
- everything should be separated for every char (some people wanted even CP lol, they are real hard defenders)

did I miss something why you all dont want to make shysards accountwide?

You missed the fact that it's part of the gameplay. Dumbing down the gameplay is not a Quality of Life Improvement.

You seem very obsessed with the concept of time. People don't oppose this proposal because they have more time than you, they oppose it for an assortment of reasons as you have acknowledged. The important point about time is that this is a MMO, and as such it's designed to be played for years, not weeks or even months. As such whether you don't have the time to achieve something this week that others can achieve today isn't relevant. It's taken me well over 4 years to achieve 200 CPs on one account, with none on the other account, but I'm still opposed to cutting corners on the gameplay and turning every account into a single character plus alts that have everything offered to them on a plate because one character has them. All my characters are equal individuals and they do different things in different ways as they progress fully through the game. Options are all well and good but sooner or later there's pressure in various parts of the game to comply with the perceived best approach and the options no longer become viable. Meanwhile there's more pressure on the developers to change something else in the gameplay, and all the while the development time required to implement these "optional" changes have distracted ZOS from the greater priorities like performance and balance.

I've played many MMORPGs since 1998 and the ones that I have become wholly committed to have each kept me entertained for over 10 years - EQ, EQ2, WoW and LotRO being the main ones but with ESO now in the same category. I don't want to shorten that lifespan by doing everything in one go.

I know that not everyone will agree with my approach any more than they will agree with yours. That doesn't make anyone ignorant, it simply means they have different opinions, all equally validly held and promoted. ZOS recognise this and have struck a fair balance in my view between things like CPs, dye unlocks, bank slots and collectibles etc that are account-wide and other things like most achievements including skyshards and lorebooks etc that are character-specific. You may prefer everything to be account-wide while I would prefer everything to be character-specific, and ZOS have met us both halfway. I'm happy with that as a fair recognition of the different views players hold.

Edziu · November 2018

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

TheTombstone wrote: »

And no one would stop you from adventuring, but for those that don't want to be forced to explore every zone in order to get the most out of the game, this would help.

The new situation would stop me. It would help you, maybe, but what helps you, destroys the fun of others. Especially those who spent years on doing the same things multiple times.
ZOS put a hard work into preparing the zones, forcing us to explore them all, which is good, because we make a crowd and have a chance to visit places we already forgot once. Now imagine you gathered all skyshards on single character - you no longer need to visit these places again on your other characters. Thousands of players in same situation. How empty Tamriel would become. If there is no longer need to explore for skyshards, mages guild books, achievements, titles, because in time everything would be account bound on someone's request...
Some people also want a horse training to be account bound, the auction house from SWTOR. The amount of ideas or demands goes up every week. I'm glad ZOS doesn't hear out for most of them.
And even if you are a subscriber, it doesn't give you special rights to change the world.

now imagine you as you had struggle before you dont want other players to have more pleasure from this game than you telling they also need to struggle by this where we can easy fix it, change to not force player to struggle with boring content

yes, it would help other players who yet dont have every character created but they dont have and wont have done it even soon maybe because of this?

oks you struggled by this boring stupid time wasting grind but is this reason to force other player to struggle this like you?
do you remember old max lvl as 16 vet rank? that was pure real grind, many had many chars at this time and what they got whet it was removed? not so much while now every new player dont need to get these vet ranks, just 50max lvl on char and enough

what you saying is like that as old players struggled to grind their every chat to 16 vet rank and these players will stay at their own to newer remove vet rank, they got it, some struggled it but got so dont remove it only because of newer players! keep it also to vet, force them to grind every new char to 16 vet rank because we had to do it - this is what I see in your opinion in this post like

is it like revenge to newer player? because you struggled with stupid thing in eariel time in this game then newer players also should even when game should evolving in time to be more pleasant for newer player to get more of them playing in it

So you want 150 extra Skillpoints right from the Start? Removing the need of collecting skillpoints? Removing the need for quests, Public Dungeons etc? How often do you create new chars? Every 2nd day? 1 or max 2 Days is enough to get all the Skillpoints you need.

not from jsut start if you readed posts before, to be this more equal to other lvling or new players it will be enough to get unlocked these skyshards when you hit 50lvl on your new char and have collected them before on another char
at 50lvl lvl and high cp player you really wont see difference if its new or old character while under lvling to 50lvl you would not have this skillpoints advantage because it will be locked until you hit this max lvl

and I was creating new alt with mind to play him after few months and as I have created 6 alts (ofc not counting main) only 1 of them is in playable state and rest are jsut magasiners because I was to bored to grind with them exploration again for just skillpoints

I have 8 chars, 7 of them are at max lvl with bought backapck upgrades because was with mind to play with them and currenly anly 2 are at plaaybe state, this my main and just single alt at which I had streangh to struggle to gather this minimum needed of points

tmbrinks · November 2018

kyle.wilson wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

If you cannot be arsed to collect stuffs then dont play an mmo. thats it.

You know MMO doesn't mean insanely boring repetitive tasks and nauseam right?

Massively
Multiplayer
Online

Not

Massively
Mundane
Ordeal

You know RPG stands for Role Playing Game not Really Prompt Gratification right?

Yes, but role playing game can mean different things for different people. To some, it’s to project themselves in the skin of their character and experience the quests like if it happened directly to them. To others, like myself, it’s to theorycraft the strongest builds to tackle the most difficult content.

Forcing mindless grinds to people who thrive challenging content is not a good idea. Just like it wouldn’t be a good idea to force you to play Dark Souls or other challenging games.

On top of that, people that ask to skip easy grinding are generally people that whant to do this hard, end-game content. Believe me, vMA is the complete opposite of Really Prompt Gratification.

I’m repeating myself, but to each their own!

I like completing the really hard content. I absolutely, unequivocally, do NOT want skyshards to be account bound.

For having at least 31.1K achiev points. (Elearium - EP - Templar healer - Bringer of Light - Voice of Reason - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Divayth Fyr’s Coadjuster - Blackrose Executioner - Master Angler - 9-trait/All Motifs - 31.1k+ Achievement Points) are you saying skyshards are hard?
I see it as more of an annoyance than difficult.

Plus what do you play on? I'd expect you to be a Grand Overlord with those points, but I don't recognize the char name from PCNA. But, nothing highlights someones love for pointless grind quite like Master Angler

I was referring to the comment I quoted "People that ask to skip easy grinding are generally people that whant (sic) to do this hard, end-game content." Not that they were hard, but to emphasize that even while I do the hard end-game content, I do NOT want skyshards to be account bound.

I think they're rather easy to get, as I've said numerous times, so this insistence on them being "given" to me is absurd

What I choose to do with my time is my business.

I don't really PVP. I find it boring and toxic. That's where I'm missing a majority of achievement points. But to each his own.

Edziu · November 2018

ok @Tandor
but like this option is dumbing your gameplay same this shard grinding is dumping our gamepley but additional our time

while we just dont like to grind this over on every new chara you ike this, but as we dont lie this this additionally is consuming your time to already consumed our fun of playing in this game and until we grind this we cant play with our maxed friends who have ready characters and mainly we are forced to grind in solo as almost nobody from our friends want again this grind for no reason even if it will to help us but we understand they same dont like to repeat it even with us

TheTombstone · November 2018

Actually, @mxxo the build I'm currently working towards takes 144 points, and is designed to be for a sub level 50 character. That's the bare minimum it takes as well. It's a min-maxed build that I wanted to try out.

I don't feel the need to do the same thing again and again. Yes, the Journey matters. But Sky Shards aren't part of the Journey to a lot of people. There are over what, 200+ posts on this thread, with over 2.5k views?? A lot of people supporting this in the comments and those that don't care enough to comment. I for one like doing the delves. I don't think that the books should be account bound, but it wouldn't surprise me if that became a thing in the future either.

Don't hate change, just because you had to do it the hard way.

mxxo · November 2018

Edziu wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

TheTombstone wrote: »

And no one would stop you from adventuring, but for those that don't want to be forced to explore every zone in order to get the most out of the game, this would help.

The new situation would stop me. It would help you, maybe, but what helps you, destroys the fun of others. Especially those who spent years on doing the same things multiple times.
ZOS put a hard work into preparing the zones, forcing us to explore them all, which is good, because we make a crowd and have a chance to visit places we already forgot once. Now imagine you gathered all skyshards on single character - you no longer need to visit these places again on your other characters. Thousands of players in same situation. How empty Tamriel would become. If there is no longer need to explore for skyshards, mages guild books, achievements, titles, because in time everything would be account bound on someone's request...
Some people also want a horse training to be account bound, the auction house from SWTOR. The amount of ideas or demands goes up every week. I'm glad ZOS doesn't hear out for most of them.
And even if you are a subscriber, it doesn't give you special rights to change the world.

now imagine you as you had struggle before you dont want other players to have more pleasure from this game than you telling they also need to struggle by this where we can easy fix it, change to not force player to struggle with boring content

yes, it would help other players who yet dont have every character created but they dont have and wont have done it even soon maybe because of this?

oks you struggled by this boring stupid time wasting grind but is this reason to force other player to struggle this like you?
do you remember old max lvl as 16 vet rank? that was pure real grind, many had many chars at this time and what they got whet it was removed? not so much while now every new player dont need to get these vet ranks, just 50max lvl on char and enough

what you saying is like that as old players struggled to grind their every chat to 16 vet rank and these players will stay at their own to newer remove vet rank, they got it, some struggled it but got so dont remove it only because of newer players! keep it also to vet, force them to grind every new char to 16 vet rank because we had to do it - this is what I see in your opinion in this post like

is it like revenge to newer player? because you struggled with stupid thing in eariel time in this game then newer players also should even when game should evolving in time to be more pleasant for newer player to get more of them playing in it

So you want 150 extra Skillpoints right from the Start? Removing the need of collecting skillpoints? Removing the need for quests, Public Dungeons etc? How often do you create new chars? Every 2nd day? 1 or max 2 Days is enough to get all the Skillpoints you need.

not from jsut start if you readed posts before, to be this more equal to other lvling or new players it will be enough to get unlocked these skyshards when you hit 50lvl on your new char and have collected them before on another char
at 50lvl lvl and high cp player you really wont see difference if its new or old character while under lvling to 50lvl you would not have this skillpoints advantage because it will be locked until you hit this max lvl

and I was creating new alt with mind to play him after few months and as I have created 6 alts (ofc not counting main) only 1 of them is in playable state and rest are jsut magasiners because I was to bored to grind with them exploration again for just skillpoints

I have 8 chars, 7 of them are at max lvl with bought backapck upgrades because was with mind to play with them and currenly anly 2 are at plaaybe state, this my main and just single alt at which I had streangh to struggle to gather this minimum needed of points

That would be from the Start since you can be level 50 in hours ;D

Edziu · November 2018

Gargath wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

is it like revenge to newer player? because you struggled with stupid thing in eariel time in this game then newer players also should even when game should evolving in time to be more pleasant for newer player to get more of them playing in it

Man, it's so hard to understand your point. Maybe if you were using capitals and dots in a right place, your whole post wouldn't showed up as a single sentence .

well thats my bad as I dont mainly talk in engish and mainly tyupid to fast on forum but ok, I will try to write it in tl;dr

what I understand from your point about this its like
you struggled before to grind this stupid thing and now you want also newer players to struggle same way as you even when game should evolving to be more pleasant for new players.

like that was with old veteran rank system I see your opinion like:

I have grinded all my characters to 16 vet rank so why to remove this? keep it up, let new players also struggle this grind because I had to do and I have done it then they shouldnt have easier way to make their alts at playable state like me

sorry if something was insulting you but this is jsut view from my point how I see your opinion from your post before

Merlin13KAGL · November 2018

For those wanting this (and likely half a dozen other similar changes), how many hours to end-game-capable-character do think is reasonable?

That covers gear, L50, guild rep, Alliance war skills, relevant class skills maxed and morphed. Because that is the true complaint, in the grand scheme, that it takes time?

~100 hours in game can get you most of what you need. That includes Undaunted, Alliance War, Class and Racial's, all three armor types, and at least two weapon lines. That also includes capped Provisioning and Alchemy for the passives.

Unless you're buying from a guild trader, I'm guessing it ends up taking more than that same 100 hours simply to have final gear.

64 points from leveling. 16 points for non-DLC normal 4 man quest completion (10-20 minutes each). 16 points for non-DLC group events.

That, alone puts you at 96 skillpoints.

Do the version II's of some of those dungeons and you get 8 more skillpoints yet, again, can be completed on normal.

There's 104 total without ever having collected a single skyshard, and that doesn't count the ones you'll get from Alliance ranks, which most are bound to do at least a handful.

You can also do the first few main line quests for fast points. The first one is literally a five minute stroll.

Time to functional character is really not that bad, and for that character, you only have to do it once. If you can't be bothered to take that minimal amount of time, either play on the PTS or don't play alts.

And for the "No one plays on the PTS" argument, if there are 11 other people wanting this change, then there's enough to do anything you like on the PTS. If there aren't 11 other people wanting this change, then apparently it's unnecessary.

Take your pick.

Aionari · November 2018

sulima wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

No, absolutely not. Each time one of my characters absorbs a skyshard it is a special little moment for me as well. I've just restarted my 15th character to ensure that it continues to happen.

As a casual player I don't agree with this statement, and frankly what would it take away from you if an option for other players was available to make it account bound? I'm sure the DEVs could make it a toggling option for all the MMO purists strongly voicing their concerns in this thread. Would that be OK then, or would you then feel cheated by it? OMG!!! ZOS is now pay to win...

I don't find it enjoyable to hunt down skyshards a second time, more importantly I don't have the cycles to do so. I find these types of grinds fests the biggest flaw of most MMOs.

I tell you what would be nice, me rolling another class and explore all the great skill lines that I can from the points I already earned on a different character.

Personally, I believe my dues are paid in full to ZOS, but pretty sure it's folks with 15+ characters out there that will never feel that way for reasons I truly can't understand.

I prefer the current model over Account Wide option, I hunt the Sky Shards while clearing the Delves and Public Dungeons for a Zone, I have 10 characters on EU and 3 on NA.

For CP; Server Wide is the correct approach.

Edziu · November 2018

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

TheTombstone wrote: »

And no one would stop you from adventuring, but for those that don't want to be forced to explore every zone in order to get the most out of the game, this would help.

The new situation would stop me. It would help you, maybe, but what helps you, destroys the fun of others. Especially those who spent years on doing the same things multiple times.
ZOS put a hard work into preparing the zones, forcing us to explore them all, which is good, because we make a crowd and have a chance to visit places we already forgot once. Now imagine you gathered all skyshards on single character - you no longer need to visit these places again on your other characters. Thousands of players in same situation. How empty Tamriel would become. If there is no longer need to explore for skyshards, mages guild books, achievements, titles, because in time everything would be account bound on someone's request...
Some people also want a horse training to be account bound, the auction house from SWTOR. The amount of ideas or demands goes up every week. I'm glad ZOS doesn't hear out for most of them.
And even if you are a subscriber, it doesn't give you special rights to change the world.

now imagine you as you had struggle before you dont want other players to have more pleasure from this game than you telling they also need to struggle by this where we can easy fix it, change to not force player to struggle with boring content

yes, it would help other players who yet dont have every character created but they dont have and wont have done it even soon maybe because of this?

oks you struggled by this boring stupid time wasting grind but is this reason to force other player to struggle this like you?
do you remember old max lvl as 16 vet rank? that was pure real grind, many had many chars at this time and what they got whet it was removed? not so much while now every new player dont need to get these vet ranks, just 50max lvl on char and enough

what you saying is like that as old players struggled to grind their every chat to 16 vet rank and these players will stay at their own to newer remove vet rank, they got it, some struggled it but got so dont remove it only because of newer players! keep it also to vet, force them to grind every new char to 16 vet rank because we had to do it - this is what I see in your opinion in this post like

is it like revenge to newer player? because you struggled with stupid thing in eariel time in this game then newer players also should even when game should evolving in time to be more pleasant for newer player to get more of them playing in it

So you want 150 extra Skillpoints right from the Start? Removing the need of collecting skillpoints? Removing the need for quests, Public Dungeons etc? How often do you create new chars? Every 2nd day? 1 or max 2 Days is enough to get all the Skillpoints you need.

not from jsut start if you readed posts before, to be this more equal to other lvling or new players it will be enough to get unlocked these skyshards when you hit 50lvl on your new char and have collected them before on another char
at 50lvl lvl and high cp player you really wont see difference if its new or old character while under lvling to 50lvl you would not have this skillpoints advantage because it will be locked until you hit this max lvl

and I was creating new alt with mind to play him after few months and as I have created 6 alts (ofc not counting main) only 1 of them is in playable state and rest are jsut magasiners because I was to bored to grind with them exploration again for just skillpoints

I have 8 chars, 7 of them are at max lvl with bought backapck upgrades because was with mind to play with them and currenly anly 2 are at plaaybe state, this my main and just single alt at which I had streangh to struggle to gather this minimum needed of points

That would be from the Start since you can be level 50 in hours ;D

yes I will be 50lvl in hours but thats because I know this game, I know classes and just shards hunting isnt anything special and needed for me, its jsut boring time waste as without this I know great game and classes and I want to run my content, without being forced to to shard grind which will give me nothing to my experience beside waste my free time and slow down me to go for normal enjoyable content

mxxo · November 2018

TheTombstone wrote: »

Actually, @mxxo the build I'm currently working towards takes 144 points, and is designed to be for a sub level 50 character. That's the bare minimum it takes as well. It's a min-maxed build that I wanted to try out.

I don't feel the need to do the same thing again and again. Yes, the Journey matters. But Sky Shards aren't part of the Journey to a lot of people. There are over what, 200+ posts on this thread, with over 2.5k views?? A lot of people supporting this in the comments and those that don't care enough to comment. I for one like doing the delves. I don't think that the books should be account bound, but it wouldn't surprise me if that became a thing in the future either.

Don't hate change, just because you had to do it the hard way.

I don´t hate change. Read my posts and you will discover that i wrote that some things should be faster. I am just against the Skyshard thing. And i dont care how many ppl support it, i have my own opinion. And my opionion is that this wouldnt be good for the game. And if your build is supposed to be a sub level 50 char then i tell you leave Kyne for beginners and instead of playing it again and again just move forward to other campaigns. This removes the need to make a new char every week. There is also another non-cp-campaign. So i am not convinced to change the game for tryhard reasons, even if i admit that it can be funny ;D

tmbrinks · November 2018

Edziu wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

TheTombstone wrote: »

And no one would stop you from adventuring, but for those that don't want to be forced to explore every zone in order to get the most out of the game, this would help.

The new situation would stop me. It would help you, maybe, but what helps you, destroys the fun of others. Especially those who spent years on doing the same things multiple times.
ZOS put a hard work into preparing the zones, forcing us to explore them all, which is good, because we make a crowd and have a chance to visit places we already forgot once. Now imagine you gathered all skyshards on single character - you no longer need to visit these places again on your other characters. Thousands of players in same situation. How empty Tamriel would become. If there is no longer need to explore for skyshards, mages guild books, achievements, titles, because in time everything would be account bound on someone's request...
Some people also want a horse training to be account bound, the auction house from SWTOR. The amount of ideas or demands goes up every week. I'm glad ZOS doesn't hear out for most of them.
And even if you are a subscriber, it doesn't give you special rights to change the world.

now imagine you as you had struggle before you dont want other players to have more pleasure from this game than you telling they also need to struggle by this where we can easy fix it, change to not force player to struggle with boring content

yes, it would help other players who yet dont have every character created but they dont have and wont have done it even soon maybe because of this?

oks you struggled by this boring stupid time wasting grind but is this reason to force other player to struggle this like you?
do you remember old max lvl as 16 vet rank? that was pure real grind, many had many chars at this time and what they got whet it was removed? not so much while now every new player dont need to get these vet ranks, just 50max lvl on char and enough

what you saying is like that as old players struggled to grind their every chat to 16 vet rank and these players will stay at their own to newer remove vet rank, they got it, some struggled it but got so dont remove it only because of newer players! keep it also to vet, force them to grind every new char to 16 vet rank because we had to do it - this is what I see in your opinion in this post like

is it like revenge to newer player? because you struggled with stupid thing in eariel time in this game then newer players also should even when game should evolving in time to be more pleasant for newer player to get more of them playing in it

So you want 150 extra Skillpoints right from the Start? Removing the need of collecting skillpoints? Removing the need for quests, Public Dungeons etc? How often do you create new chars? Every 2nd day? 1 or max 2 Days is enough to get all the Skillpoints you need.

not from jsut start if you readed posts before, to be this more equal to other lvling or new players it will be enough to get unlocked these skyshards when you hit 50lvl on your new char and have collected them before on another char
at 50lvl lvl and high cp player you really wont see difference if its new or old character while under lvling to 50lvl you would not have this skillpoints advantage because it will be locked until you hit this max lvl

and I was creating new alt with mind to play him after few months and as I have created 6 alts (ofc not counting main) only 1 of them is in playable state and rest are jsut magasiners because I was to bored to grind with them exploration again for just skillpoints

I have 8 chars, 7 of them are at max lvl with bought backapck upgrades because was with mind to play with them and currenly anly 2 are at plaaybe state, this my main and just single alt at which I had streangh to struggle to gather this minimum needed of points

That would be from the Start since you can be level 50 in hours ;D

yes I will be 50lvl in hours but thats because I know this game, I know classes and just shards hunting isnt anything special and needed for me, its jsut boring time waste as without this I know great game and classes and I want to run my content, without being forced to to shard grind which will give me nothing to my experience beside waste my free time and slow down me to go for normal enjoyable content

Once again, as was stated by another poster. You literally can level up, and get enough skill points without collecting a single skyshard. So, if skyshard collecting is what your bugaboo is, get the skill points in another way. There are plenty in the game, unless you want a character that is a full dps/healer/tank AND crafter/etc... Then you might have to collect the skyshards.

mxxo · November 2018

@Edziu

I dont like repetitive either, but there are other things that could be faster. But not the basics of the game. For example mages guild, fighters guild, psijic guild... these things add nothing to the game and could be faster with the 2nd time you do them.

Edziu · November 2018

tmbrinks wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

TheTombstone wrote: »

And no one would stop you from adventuring, but for those that don't want to be forced to explore every zone in order to get the most out of the game, this would help.

The new situation would stop me. It would help you, maybe, but what helps you, destroys the fun of others. Especially those who spent years on doing the same things multiple times.
ZOS put a hard work into preparing the zones, forcing us to explore them all, which is good, because we make a crowd and have a chance to visit places we already forgot once. Now imagine you gathered all skyshards on single character - you no longer need to visit these places again on your other characters. Thousands of players in same situation. How empty Tamriel would become. If there is no longer need to explore for skyshards, mages guild books, achievements, titles, because in time everything would be account bound on someone's request...
Some people also want a horse training to be account bound, the auction house from SWTOR. The amount of ideas or demands goes up every week. I'm glad ZOS doesn't hear out for most of them.
And even if you are a subscriber, it doesn't give you special rights to change the world.

now imagine you as you had struggle before you dont want other players to have more pleasure from this game than you telling they also need to struggle by this where we can easy fix it, change to not force player to struggle with boring content

yes, it would help other players who yet dont have every character created but they dont have and wont have done it even soon maybe because of this?

oks you struggled by this boring stupid time wasting grind but is this reason to force other player to struggle this like you?
do you remember old max lvl as 16 vet rank? that was pure real grind, many had many chars at this time and what they got whet it was removed? not so much while now every new player dont need to get these vet ranks, just 50max lvl on char and enough

what you saying is like that as old players struggled to grind their every chat to 16 vet rank and these players will stay at their own to newer remove vet rank, they got it, some struggled it but got so dont remove it only because of newer players! keep it also to vet, force them to grind every new char to 16 vet rank because we had to do it - this is what I see in your opinion in this post like

is it like revenge to newer player? because you struggled with stupid thing in eariel time in this game then newer players also should even when game should evolving in time to be more pleasant for newer player to get more of them playing in it

So you want 150 extra Skillpoints right from the Start? Removing the need of collecting skillpoints? Removing the need for quests, Public Dungeons etc? How often do you create new chars? Every 2nd day? 1 or max 2 Days is enough to get all the Skillpoints you need.

not from jsut start if you readed posts before, to be this more equal to other lvling or new players it will be enough to get unlocked these skyshards when you hit 50lvl on your new char and have collected them before on another char
at 50lvl lvl and high cp player you really wont see difference if its new or old character while under lvling to 50lvl you would not have this skillpoints advantage because it will be locked until you hit this max lvl

and I was creating new alt with mind to play him after few months and as I have created 6 alts (ofc not counting main) only 1 of them is in playable state and rest are jsut magasiners because I was to bored to grind with them exploration again for just skillpoints

I have 8 chars, 7 of them are at max lvl with bought backapck upgrades because was with mind to play with them and currenly anly 2 are at plaaybe state, this my main and just single alt at which I had streangh to struggle to gather this minimum needed of points

That would be from the Start since you can be level 50 in hours ;D

yes I will be 50lvl in hours but thats because I know this game, I know classes and just shards hunting isnt anything special and needed for me, its jsut boring time waste as without this I know great game and classes and I want to run my content, without being forced to to shard grind which will give me nothing to my experience beside waste my free time and slow down me to go for normal enjoyable content

Once again, as was stated by another poster. You literally can level up, and get enough skill points without collecting a single skyshard. So, if skyshard collecting is what your bugaboo is, get the skill points in another way. There are plenty in the game, unless you want a character that is a full dps/healer/tank AND crafter/etc... Then you might have to collect the skyshards.

and this why I need more skillpoints unfortunately

when Im going to create alt then as I also dont like to much even pure grind to 50lvl (but this one is atlest fast eanough) I creating charaacter which is usable for more than 1 build

as I said before my only alt which I had to playable state bahind main was mag dk, I have exploored +- 75% of just tamriel gathering for hims shards and skippoints and he is able to dps, tank and pvp even without changes in cp
this isnt prume mmin/max but this is enough for me to be able play different roles, builds without ned to change and this my disadvantage is thats as this is not min/max to every of those build, its just enough to be playable and still have fun of this

my next alt magplar was, I wanted him also for pve and pvp like this dk, pve healer and dps 1st to collct mre poisnt via vet dung etc and here it ended, have done some pve with him and then got bored and didnt want to end his shard grind for more skillpoint to be viable for pvp and pve higher endgame

and rest of my alts went worse with even less skippoints as on every next I was more bored because of this in end your post - I want my alts to be able to play more than single build on them because I dont want to have 10+ alts and every on them for specific situations, content
I dont want many alts, I just want few alst for atlest each class and be able to do atleast 2 or 3 roles on them instead of just 1

thats why for me this isnt enough skippoiints from just lvling char and groupd dungs quests and Im forced to explore same map again and again with every of those alts which isnt fun for me after x-th time

Edziu · November 2018

mxxo wrote: »

@Edziu

I dont like repetitive either, but there are other things that could be faster. But not the basics of the game. For example mages guild, fighters guild, psijic guild... these things add nothing to the game and could be faster with the 2nd time you do them.

yeah thats point also, if I could then have asier to have done wtith these guild while have done it atlest once fully then I will not have that problem to grin boring shards again because then I will have easier way with guild

so here it staretd, as we have problem with every of this, guild and shards for many are equal boring and nonsens time wasting then here we started this thread - as someone wanted to get rid of jsut 1 thing from these grinds

we had threads about faster lvl guild - we get nothing at all and people still struggling so here thread about skyshards had to be create - to try get rid from other different boring grind for many

Swomp23 · November 2018

disintegr8 wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I have 14 max level toons on one account and 3 on a second account (currently working on numbers 4 and 5) and I see no reason why skyshards, skill points or horse training should be account wide. Even being able to use CP on below level 50 toons makes live too easy.

Yes - I have 19 characters at 60/60/60 in horse training, all done 1 day at a time with gold.

Well, good for you. I’m genuinely happy if you enjoyed doing it and take pride in it.

But not everyone likes the same things. I see no point in forcing people do things they find boring in a game.

Maybe you should find another game you might enjoy more instead of requesting ZOS change THIS game so it suits YOUR needs. Why should others lose stuff they enjoy just because others don't like it? - it's the same as your argument.

You only need enough skill points to equip each characters needs and nobody's forcing you to get all of the skyshards on every character. Beyond maybe one character set aside as a crafter, any other character can get enough skill points without trudging all over Tamriel.

I suppose once you level a character to level 50, any new ones you make should start at level 50 with 64 skill points.

I don't need another game, this one suits my needs. Well, parts of this game. For a long time, I enjoyed vet dungeons and normal trials (I didn't dabble in vet trials yet). I had a BLAST dying 200 times on my first vMA clear. Now, since a couple weeks, I rediscovered pvp and I'm having a lot of fun there. The problem, is that there is 2-3 other archetypes that I would like to try in pvp and I dont have those archetypes battle ready. So I have the choice to waste a couple of weeks to bring those new toons to 50, and then grind skyshards, lorebooks, undaunted, horse and all that, or I can keep pvping with 2 of my chars that I built for pvp, until I get bored and quit the game for a 2nd time. And btw, it's just not MY needs, just look at the salts in this forum when a class gets nerfed. If it would be easy to bring a character battle ready, people would still be mad, but they would have a nice alternative.

And to be clear, I NEVER wanted other people to lose the opportunity to hunt skyshards, if that's what they enjoy. Go read my other posts, I say that if we get that, it has to be an OPTION, so you can CHOOSE to use it or not. Everyone wins!

Gargath · November 2018

It's hard to talk with minority of people who find the key features of game as boring and waste of time and keep repeating how important it is for all to ease their boredom. Instead of adapting to the environment, about which they knew when they started the game, they rather keep demanding an easy way to obtain things. This is all wrong and selfish, and that's no progress.

@Edziu I read your spoiler: "retired from eso since morrowind, back after half of year for short time and again retired after summerset, GG". If you are no longer interested in playing ESO, then why are you so active in this thread? You represent any group? Or maybe you think the changes you want would make any difference in your returning to ESO?