Do people who complain about "nerfs" only have one character?

ImmortalCX · November 2018

One of the good aspects of the CP system is that its easy to develop alts. I leveled two alts 3-50 during the last holiday. It was surprisingly little work to do the dolmen grind, and the free skill points handed out from leveling means you can advance all your combat skill lines without having to explore or quest. I believe there are 3 or 4 of these 100% xp events per year.

Because of the way gear drops work in dungeons, I already have many healing, tanking, and mag dps sets ready for these new characters.

I realize that the game will change, that some classes will become less entertaining, or less powerful. Players will adapt, or they will quit. But lets not pretend that getting another character into "fighting shape" takes much work at all.

If they completely nerfed my stamblade, I would just switch to one of my new characters. Which tells me that people who take balance nerfs this "seriously" feel like they are locked into a single character/playstyle. And that just isn't true. Its incredibly easy to level an alt (or two, or three.)

So why do people ragequit when meta changes? I would certainly understand it, if the game was like WOW where a new character took months of development. But getting an ESO toon from 3-50 takes 10-20 hours of playing.

SirAndy · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Do people who complain about "nerfs" only have one character?

I have 4 mains that i actively play. They represent the 4 base classes (Tried Warden, didn't like it a bit).

Only one of them uses shields and yet you'll find plenty of posts from me complaining about the shield nerfs.

I'm perfectly capable of recognizing when ZOS is going overboard with their nerf hammer (again and again), no matter if it affects the character i'm currently playing or not.

SydneyGrey · November 2018

No, people just sometimes have a favorite character, even though they might have 10 characters, and they don't want to see their favorite destroyed.

Valrien · November 2018

And then you gotta get Skyshards, lorebooks, undaunted experience, fighters guild experience, level your class skills and weapon skills...

It DOES take a ton of time and effort to get a character to a playable level. And without things like this being account wide, many people with limited time do feel locked into one playstyle.

Not to mention, achievements. If you like achievement hunting like me, many times you actually feel GUILTY because you're not getting achievements on your main, just some alt.

In short, people have a right to complain about game breaking nerfs, ESPECIALLY if they only have one character because most people don't have time for alts

ImmortalCX · November 2018

SirAndy wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Do people who complain about "nerfs" only have one character?

I have 4 mains that i actively play. They represent the 4 base classes (Tried Warden, didn't like it a bit).

Only one of them uses shields and yet you'll find plenty of posts from me complaining about the shield nerfs.

I'm perfectly capable of recognizing when ZOS is going overboard with their nerf hammer (again and again), no matter if it affects the character i'm currently playing or not.

So you don't agree with their balance changes, but you admit that if you had to keep playing the game, you could with three other characters in pretty much the same way you have been?

Odovacar · November 2018

Its mostly their main I would think, who knows.

Koolio · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

One of the good aspects of the CP system is that its easy to develop alts. I leveled two alts 3-50 during the last holiday. It was surprisingly little work to do the dolmen grind, and the free skill points handed out from leveling means you can advance all your combat skill lines without having to explore or quest. I believe there are 3 or 4 of these 100% xp events per year.

Because of the way gear drops work in dungeons, I already have many healing, tanking, and mag dps sets ready for these new characters.

I realize that the game will change, that some classes will become less entertaining, or less powerful. Players will adapt, or they will quit. But lets not pretend that getting another character into "fighting shape" takes much work at all.

If they completely nerfed my stamblade, I would just switch to one of my new characters. Which tells me that people who take balance nerfs this "seriously" feel like they are locked into a single character/playstyle. And that just isn't true. Its incredibly easy to level an alt (or two, or three.)

So why do people ragequit when meta changes? I would certainly understand it, if the game was like WOW where a new character took months of development. But getting an ESO toon from 3-50 takes 10-20 hours of playing.

Mages guild Psijic guild skill point build varieties(Dw 2h bow and SNB) it takes a long time.

It takes like 20 Skyreach runs to get that last level of SNB ult.

I already have most skills unlocked on every spec of character (magic and Stam)

But nerfs just ruin fun on a class. I will probably NEVER run my Mag sorc in PvP ever again. At least as Dps. I loved the 3rd bar and now that it’s been removed I just can’t bring myself to play it.

Valrien · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Do people who complain about "nerfs" only have one character?

I have 4 mains that i actively play. They represent the 4 base classes (Tried Warden, didn't like it a bit).

Only one of them uses shields and yet you'll find plenty of posts from me complaining about the shield nerfs.

I'm perfectly capable of recognizing when ZOS is going overboard with their nerf hammer (again and again), no matter if it affects the character i'm currently playing or not.

So you don't agree with their balance changes, but you admit that if you had to keep playing the game, you could with three other characters in pretty much the same way you have been?

This is an extremely selfish train of thought.

"Who gives a *** if one class is entirely destroyed to the point where it can't be played anymore? Just invest 4 more years of playtime into a different character"

Fischblut · November 2018

I have mag and stam version of all classes; I complain about all nerfs because each time some ability of some class is nerfed it always hurts at least one of my characters.

ImmortalCX · November 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

No, people just sometimes have a favorite character, even though they might have 10 characters, and they don't want to see their favorite destroyed.

My thinking is that mag sorc was the favorite of ALOT of people, precisely because it was overpowered. Its just human nature.

Valrien · November 2018

Koolio wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

One of the good aspects of the CP system is that its easy to develop alts. I leveled two alts 3-50 during the last holiday. It was surprisingly little work to do the dolmen grind, and the free skill points handed out from leveling means you can advance all your combat skill lines without having to explore or quest. I believe there are 3 or 4 of these 100% xp events per year.

Because of the way gear drops work in dungeons, I already have many healing, tanking, and mag dps sets ready for these new characters.

I realize that the game will change, that some classes will become less entertaining, or less powerful. Players will adapt, or they will quit. But lets not pretend that getting another character into "fighting shape" takes much work at all.

If they completely nerfed my stamblade, I would just switch to one of my new characters. Which tells me that people who take balance nerfs this "seriously" feel like they are locked into a single character/playstyle. And that just isn't true. Its incredibly easy to level an alt (or two, or three.)

So why do people ragequit when meta changes? I would certainly understand it, if the game was like WOW where a new character took months of development. But getting an ESO toon from 3-50 takes 10-20 hours of playing.

Mages guild Psijic guild skill point build varieties(Dw 2h bow and SNB) it takes a long time.

It takes like 20 Skyreach runs to get that last level of SNB ult.

I already have most skills unlocked on every spec of character (magic and Stam)

But nerfs just ruin fun on a class. I will probably NEVER run my Mag sorc in PvP ever again. At least as Dps. I loved the 3rd bar and now that it’s been removed I just can’t bring myself to play it.

The third bar was game breaking for you? Lol

That was like the one change I was happy with because it made the ultimate actually useful

idk · November 2018

I have at least two of every class on my main server and more on my alt server. 4 characters are my favorite, NB both stam and mag, mag Sorc and stamplar. The two NBs are probably my overall favorite ones.

But I feel justified being upset with heavy handed changes Zos has made multiple times in the past few years including this most recent update.

While we know there are some players that only play one character, I expect a majority of the most active players have multiple across multiple classes.

Suddwrath · November 2018

I have 15 characters with 5 at max CP. Of those 5, one is a templar, one is a sorc, two are DKs, and one is a warden. One is a tank, two are healers, and two are DPS. So I play a variety of roles over a variety of classes.

With that being said: It annoys me when ZOS takes the sledgehammer approach and heavily nerfs a class/skill regardless of whatever class or role it is. Especially when those changes weren't even something the community/class reps had brought up in previous discussions.

Starlight_Knight · November 2018

I would love to play alts if achievements were either account wide or cp wasn't.

Valrien · November 2018

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

I would love to play alts if achievements were either account wide or cp wasn't.

The second part of your post makes absolutely no sense and would make both building alts and CP in general incredibly cancerous.

The first part I agree with however

Mik195 · November 2018

I enjoy playing my warden, my DK are good , my Templer is acceptable, I hate playing my NB and my sorcerer is doing Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood and since I have to be in the mood to sneak, she doesn't get played often.

ZOS hurts my bear too much and I'll go play something else and check in a couple of times a year. Lots of games out there and too little free time to waste being annoyed. They might miss my money since I don't consider dropping $134 for the top number of crowns a couple times a month a big deal.

NordSwordnBoard · November 2018

Main: PvP Mag Sorc
PvE: DK Tank, Templar Healer, Mag Sorc DD
PvP: StamBlade, MagBlade Bomber, MagWarden, Heal Warden, StamDK

I thought 2 second cast time on a 6-8 second shield was bad. I'm glad that didn't happen as they hardly last the 6 seconds in combat.
Right before Murkmire, I switched my Main Mag Sorc to heavy in PvP and right now I am loving the new play style and build. It hearkens back to my early days of using trapping webs as a spammable lol. Hardly into PvE right now with the Cyrodiil additions and this build is also great for Battlegrounds. It's max cheese, but I really don't care because it's a blast.

The major change for me in a nutshell: I kill less stuff, but also die much, much less than ever before.

ImmortalCX · November 2018

SaltySudd wrote: »

With that being said: It annoys me when ZOS takes the sledgehammer approach and heavily nerfs a class/skill regardless of whatever class or role it is. Especially when those changes weren't even something the community/class reps had brought up in previous discussions.

I will be completely honest, when a major change happens in the game I will admit I don't even have a full perspective on the scope of the change. I'm relatively new to the game, coming up on one year anniversary.

I just have to assume that the "powers that be" have much more domain expertise and are doing it for a good reason. The developers and the class reps have a much better understanding of (and hopefully data to support) the changes that need to be made.

The question is, does even a multi-year player with many alts have that same perspective?

If I have a problem with the changes, my first reaction would be to seek out the opinion of the class reps. What do they say about the change? Do they have any insight about why? What are they doing in response? Did they change their build? Did they change classes?

This reminds me of eminent domain. Sometimes the government needs to build a highway through your back yard. It sucks to be forced out of your home, but the community at large decided on the need for a new highway and they had to put it somewhere.

Agenericname · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

So you don't agree with their balance changes, but you admit that if you had to keep playing the game, you could with three other characters in pretty much the same way you have been?

Switching classes to play whack-a-mole with ZoS isnt a solution.

I dont have 15 characters. I dont even have all the classes. Whatever I picked to play was because I found something about that class that was appealing. It certainly wasnt done to accommodate heavy handed balancing.

I dont main a magsorc and still dont believe that the adjustments that they made were thoughtful or correct.

Koolio · November 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

One of the good aspects of the CP system is that its easy to develop alts. I leveled two alts 3-50 during the last holiday. It was surprisingly little work to do the dolmen grind, and the free skill points handed out from leveling means you can advance all your combat skill lines without having to explore or quest. I believe there are 3 or 4 of these 100% xp events per year.

Because of the way gear drops work in dungeons, I already have many healing, tanking, and mag dps sets ready for these new characters.

I realize that the game will change, that some classes will become less entertaining, or less powerful. Players will adapt, or they will quit. But lets not pretend that getting another character into "fighting shape" takes much work at all.

If they completely nerfed my stamblade, I would just switch to one of my new characters. Which tells me that people who take balance nerfs this "seriously" feel like they are locked into a single character/playstyle. And that just isn't true. Its incredibly easy to level an alt (or two, or three.)

So why do people ragequit when meta changes? I would certainly understand it, if the game was like WOW where a new character took months of development. But getting an ESO toon from 3-50 takes 10-20 hours of playing.

Mages guild Psijic guild skill point build varieties(Dw 2h bow and SNB) it takes a long time.

It takes like 20 Skyreach runs to get that last level of SNB ult.

I already have most skills unlocked on every spec of character (magic and Stam)

But nerfs just ruin fun on a class. I will probably NEVER run my Mag sorc in PvP ever again. At least as Dps. I loved the 3rd bar and now that it’s been removed I just can’t bring myself to play it.

The third bar was game breaking for you? Lol

That was like the one change I was happy with because it made the ultimate actually useful

To me it enabled the bar space I needed for my build. I love pulling 3-4 people into a room puttin down (3rd bar) Mines Volcanic Rune hitting crit surge maybe a dark conversion and then going into my normal bars. It felt great and fluid. Both on mag sorc and Stam sorc.

50% reduced damage is useful for single target for you?

ezio45 · November 2018

no i have one of each class besides warden which i had and deleted.

TheShadowScout · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Do people who complain about "nerfs" only have one character?

No, but I suspect they might have one "main" they like best, and they get vexed when that one gets the nerfhammer.

Thing is, the only things that get nerfed are those things that perform better then the game designers intended, so... those who DO get vexed when their favorite character falls under the shadow of nerfage didn't -really- like that character for the character, they liked the (slightly unfair on occasion) advantage their build gave them over others...

The thing is, games like this one usually get "rebalancing" changes every now and then.
Its inevitable.
They keep adding stuff, stuff works differently then they thought, they have to fix the issues, their fixes generate new issues, etc.
Things will -always- change.
They have before, and they will again.
This time its a big one, that affects many builds that had been popular because they were super-effective.
And the fact that these builds were more effective then intended is what brought the nerfs down on them. Duh.
...now some people get upset about this, and whine.
While others... are busy finding new ways to run their favorite characters.
What else is new?
This has happened before, and will again.
Just accept it and carry on gaming!

ImmortalCX wrote: »

One of the good aspects of the CP system is that its easy to develop alts...

...at least as far as the basic "get to 50" stuff is concerned.
Its less "easy" when you take into account riding training, crafting research, exploration (including skyshard hunting), guild progression or skill maxings and morphings...

But in any case, even if that wasn't the case, its a bit callous to tell people "Ah, just forget about that character you invested three years of your life into and roll a new META..."

ImmortalCX wrote: »

If they completely nerfed my stamblade...

...I will just keep playing her, I suck at the PvPness anyhow, so how would it be different if I respawned some more?

I made and play my characters because I like the character concept, not because I want to have some META that beats all others. I just accept that I will loose more often then I may win in PvP, and that I won't make it to some dungeon leaderboard of such, and game on, having my fun nonetheless.
And that's the thing.
If all you care about is winning easily with an OP build, then you will always, always run into nerfings of your build sooner or later, and then feel betrayed because your advantage was taken away.
If you just want to have fun in the game... you will just adapt when the game is "rebalanced" and keep on having fun.
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SirAndy · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Do people who complain about "nerfs" only have one character?

I have 4 mains that i actively play. They represent the 4 base classes (Tried Warden, didn't like it a bit).
Only one of them uses shields and yet you'll find plenty of posts from me complaining about the shield nerfs.
I'm perfectly capable of recognizing when ZOS is going overboard with their nerf hammer (again and again), no matter if it affects the character i'm currently playing or not.

So you don't agree with their balance changes, but you admit that if you had to keep playing the game, you could with three other characters in pretty much the same way you have been?

I actually did the unthinkable and reworked my light armor PetSorc and still play it.
That doesn't mean it wasn't gimped. The shield nerf hit *hard*.

I don't have to "admit" anything since as far as i know i haven't been "accused" of anything yet and neither do i have to "defend" myself or "justify" my play style to anyone.

I periodically switch between my mains, and have done so since PC launch.

Salvas_Aren · November 2018

Do people who complain about "nerfs" only have one character? Bookmark

I think the nerf callers have only one character. They call for a nerf of that class that has an advante in the rock-scissor-paper game.

RedRook · November 2018

I play all five classes. I usually have a favorite, but I'm rarely in favor of any class being nerfed. Never as far as these devs tend to go with it.

Switching class and shelving alts when their playstyle has been nuked is a good way to cope, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be happy with the situation.

ATomiX96 · November 2018

i've got 15 characters all maxed out max undaunted and all the other stuff as well, but the thing is *** like single target dots proccing glyphs on cooldown needs to get called out to get nerfed and not everyone is a FOTM class reroller smh, some people actually stick to 1 character for a while.

carlos424 · November 2018

ImmortalCX wrote: »

One of the good aspects of the CP system is that its easy to develop alts. I leveled two alts 3-50 during the last holiday. It was surprisingly little work to do the dolmen grind, and the free skill points handed out from leveling means you can advance all your combat skill lines without having to explore or quest. I believe there are 3 or 4 of these 100% xp events per year.

Because of the way gear drops work in dungeons, I already have many healing, tanking, and mag dps sets ready for these new characters.

I realize that the game will change, that some classes will become less entertaining, or less powerful. Players will adapt, or they will quit. But lets not pretend that getting another character into "fighting shape" takes much work at all.

If they completely nerfed my stamblade, I would just switch to one of my new characters. Which tells me that people who take balance nerfs this "seriously" feel like they are locked into a single character/playstyle. And that just isn't true. Its incredibly easy to level an alt (or two, or three.)

So why do people ragequit when meta changes? I would certainly understand it, if the game was like WOW where a new character took months of development. But getting an ESO toon from 3-50 takes 10-20 hours of playing.

While you might be able to knock out 10-20 hours of playing in a day or two, this might take many people a couple of weeks or more. Not everyone can play more than a couple of hours a day, a few days a week. I have a few mag characters, but havent really ventured into stam, and only 2 that are fully leveled. Luckily, one is a beast magplar, with channeled focus and resistances out the wazoo. Unfortunately, the other is a magsorc. Not sure how I will proceed with him, since he was already squishy if I didnt have his ward up at all times. Now, with 30% of the ward he had (without making any changes), I will have to find resitances and more health. Any way you work that, there will be a significant loss of dps. Now if I was a stamblade, no problem, lose a few K dps, I’ll manage, but magsorc already has sustain and dps issues. So losing a few K dps makes you a liability to the group. (I’m focused on endgame pve. I realize that pvp should be easier to adapt.).

Abigail · November 2018

TheShadowScout wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Darwin never said or wrote that. Moreover, in the context of evolution it's entirely irrelevant to this conversation.

Kadoin · November 2018

Most of my chars use light armor. Guess how much I like LA this patch? Having more than one char means nothing when the nerfs affect the other ones too.

yodased · November 2018

I think you misunderstand the emotional connection in lieu of a logical one.

Video games by definition are an entertainment medium that require a certain part of one's self to be intermingled with their avatar. It's just the way it is, if you didn't feel personally connected to whatever action you see on the screen, then you would find no reason to play it.

This is not a new concept, people were attaching themselves to their pong paddles and then to their pac man and then to ms pac man, mario, donkey kong, sub zero and scorpion. Every successful video game allows the player to transport themselves, at least somewhat, into their digital counterpart.

When something drastic changes that brings about perceived unwarranted changes, it can actually feel like a personal attack.

Now, no one is going to say that they are emotionally damaged from a nerf in a video game, at least not well adjusted people, but that is the core reasoning behind why the passion is there.

If the change was logically warranted and just, that doesn't make it easier to accept that something you put so much time and connect so strongly with has changed for what feels like a worse version of that thing.

Doesn't matter if you could just buy a fully leveled fully geared character from the store, that hit to the ego is going to make people feel some type of way.

Is what it is, nature of this entertainment medium, people either change with it or find something else to invest their time in.

ImmortalCX · November 2018

carlos424 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

One of the good aspects of the CP system is that its easy to develop alts. I leveled two alts 3-50 during the last holiday. It was surprisingly little work to do the dolmen grind, and the free skill points handed out from leveling means you can advance all your combat skill lines without having to explore or quest. I believe there are 3 or 4 of these 100% xp events per year.

Because of the way gear drops work in dungeons, I already have many healing, tanking, and mag dps sets ready for these new characters.

I realize that the game will change, that some classes will become less entertaining, or less powerful. Players will adapt, or they will quit. But lets not pretend that getting another character into "fighting shape" takes much work at all.

If they completely nerfed my stamblade, I would just switch to one of my new characters. Which tells me that people who take balance nerfs this "seriously" feel like they are locked into a single character/playstyle. And that just isn't true. Its incredibly easy to level an alt (or two, or three.)

So why do people ragequit when meta changes? I would certainly understand it, if the game was like WOW where a new character took months of development. But getting an ESO toon from 3-50 takes 10-20 hours of playing.

While you might be able to knock out 10-20 hours of playing in a day or two, this might take many people a couple of weeks or more. Not everyone can play more than a couple of hours a day, a few days a week. I have a few mag characters, but havent really ventured into stam, and only 2 that are fully leveled. Luckily, one is a beast magplar, with channeled focus and resistances out the wazoo. Unfortunately, the other is a magsorc. Not sure how I will proceed with him, since he was already squishy if I didnt have his ward up at all times. Now, with 30% of the ward he had (without making any changes), I will have to find resitances and more health. Any way you work that, there will be a significant loss of dps. Now if I was a stamblade, no problem, lose a few K dps, I’ll manage, but magsorc already has sustain and dps issues. So losing a few K dps makes you a liability to the group. (I’m focused on endgame pve. I realize that pvp should be easier to adapt.).

What does the magsorc class representative say about the changes?