ImmortalCX wrote: »Wrothgar had some meat, vvardenfel was maybe 20 hours, cwc a bit smaller. Each expansion / dlc has a fairly limited scope. They reveal a new zone with some local story quests. Maybe three stories and some minor side quests. Perhaps a couple new dungeons or arena.
What i think the game needs, is a *major* new chapter, of same magnitude as the current main quest. While i appreciate frequent small releases, it seems to keep them from getting very ambitiuos. When you look at WOW, they are able to do some very major things with each expansion.
Is eso just not big enough to do this?
The difference is not size, but delivery dates.
WoW had over 3 years after launch before Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich king was 4 years after launch, then cataclysm a full 2 years after that.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »Most $80 AAA games today come with 10 hours of story content.
30 hours of content for $40 isn't too bad.
ImmortalCX wrote: »When you look at WOW, they are able to do some very major things with each expansion.
ImmortalCX wrote: »When you look at WOW, they are able to do some very major things with each expansion.
Ancient Engine over 2 decades old (with some tweaks) and workers used to working with it? [✓]
PS2 era graphics that require 1/50th the effort to produce compared to more modern graphics? [✓]
Mandatory subs which in turn "force" a continuous flow of revenue? [✓]
There you have it, the recipe for pumping out low quality content rapidly.
So far, arguably more or less good, lore-wise The Elder Scrolls Online is continuing to expand with new in-game areas with quite good success. Game balance-wise and skill-wise not so much, anymore. The answer how long it will continue to do so, is probably more based on the "new inspiration" value of the developer team for new content, than anything else.
Anyone who has been playing Everquest II for more than 2-3 years will know how quickly lack of inspiration for new ideas can bring a game to a very repititive and boring state, at which even more players (than already before) will be leaving the game.
ImmortalCX wrote: »The cash store business model with free trials doesn't give anyone an accurate picture of the player base. I know they have touted constant growth, but that includes all the non-sub people who bought the $10 base game on sale and putzed around for a weekend before quitting.
With the lack of large updates and the cash store business model, it doesn't feel like they are trying for sustainable long term growth. If you sum up all the new content over the past two years, it doesn't add up to something like WOW's BC or WOTLK (or any of their major expansions)
The game needs vertical growth, not just horizontal.
RainfeatherUK wrote: »ESO wasn't successful early enough to capture the major mmo demographic really. The content model has long changed since the days of wrothgar and whilst they prefer these 'chapters' now, which are smaller and more cost effective - they also lack all of the 'features in one go' that normal mmo's would offer. Things like new classes come every expansion with FFXIV and other elements are all expanded on as well.
I feel as if ESO's updates are too thinly spread. They release a chapter but the technique works poorly because everyone gets a little bit - which means, ultimately, that because not everyone likes everything; that you complete your 'little bit' quickly and then you find yourself bored.
The graphical quality and the voice acting also make it take longer to make ESO content.The difference is not size, but delivery dates.
WoW had over 3 years after launch before Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich king was 4 years after launch, then cataclysm a full 2 years after that.
This puts into perspective why I think it is humorous some will compare ESO to WoW. It is not just quantity, but also quality that matter. ESO surpasses WoW in each. The comparison in the OP does not seem very genuine, or not very informed about WoW.
Cillion3117 wrote: »I'm happy with the content and the schedule of release they use. But that's why I play th he game, I'm happy with it. Why people continue playing a game and posting on forums about a game they are not happy with is beyond me. There's tons of gaming options out there. Someone out there is doing it right by your standards.
I don't think we will get anything the size of the base game again, however with the chapters and DLC ZOS can tell new arching stories (like Morrowind - Summerset) over the content releases.
They've got some great writers working for them so I'd imagine they have plenty of interesting ideas still lined up.
ImmortalCX wrote: »So far, arguably more or less good, lore-wise The Elder Scrolls Online is continuing to expand with new in-game areas with quite good success. Game balance-wise and skill-wise not so much, anymore. The answer how long it will continue to do so, is probably more based on the "new inspiration" value of the developer team for new content, than anything else.
Anyone who has been playing Everquest II for more than 2-3 years will know how quickly lack of inspiration for new ideas can bring a game to a very repititive and boring state, at which even more players (than already before) will be leaving the game.
I agree. While ESO seems to be doing pretty well, the game really isn't expanding "vertically". Adding a few new zones a year with some new story quests and recycled art resources isn't cutting it, long term.
The cash store business model with free trials doesn't give anyone an accurate picture of the player base. I know they have touted constant growth, but that includes all the non-sub people who bought the $10 base game on sale and putzed around for a weekend before quitting.
With the lack of large updates and the cash store business model, it doesn't feel like they are trying for sustainable long term growth. If you sum up all the new content over the past two years, it doesn't add up to something like WOW's BC or WOTLK.
The game needs vertical growth, not just horizontal.
After reading all the comments, I think I am misunderstanding something. Why are some people saying the Original Poster is wrong? Either I am misunderstanding what the original poster means or everyone else is getting it wrong. Since I am sure everyone is not getting it wrong, I guess it's me.
That said, let me say what I think the original poster ment. I agree, we could use a new "chapter" to go along the main quest or be a new main quest. We don't get rid of the main quest but we can also have another main quest. So like advancing the story.
Let us have Tamreil advance time wise a bit. By that I mean something new happened. Maybe a new villain. Have the cast of The Five Companions minus the one be in the quests. Heck I would love to do Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivon all over again but in a different way.
Why not let us find the 7 pieces of a staff? (or how many it was, memory is bad.) With memory continuing to be bad, why not do work for a certain person? Of course it can't be the Emperor but may an Emperor waiting to happen? Like with Oblivion, there is a hidden heir/heiress? How about being the Neverine again for the first time? While some people will just say "we already did that, done that" or "you can do it play those games" why not in ESO? This way it's not exactly the same. After all what we do is same old same old anyways. Go there, fetch this, fight that boss, rinse and repeat, you are the hero in the end after dying many times.
Why does it have to be side quests? Why can't it be something new. New idea. Why not be something new so when we make a new character we don't have to do the same old same old beginner quest. Or if you don't want to make a new character just have it continue as part of Caldwelss quest, "a new beginning".
After reading all the comments, I think I am misunderstanding something. Why are some people saying the Original Poster is wrong? Either I am misunderstanding what the original poster means or everyone else is getting it wrong. Since I am sure everyone is not getting it wrong, I guess it's me.
That said, let me say what I think the original poster ment. I agree, we could use a new "chapter" to go along the main quest or be a new main quest. We don't get rid of the main quest but we can also have another main quest. So like advancing the story.
Let us have Tamreil advance time wise a bit. By that I mean something new happened. Maybe a new villain. Have the cast of The Five Companions minus the one be in the quests. Heck I would love to do Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivon all over again but in a different way.
Why not let us find the 7 pieces of a staff? (or how many it was, memory is bad.) With memory continuing to be bad, why not do work for a certain person? Of course it can't be the Emperor but may an Emperor waiting to happen? Like with Oblivion, there is a hidden heir/heiress? How about being the Neverine again for the first time? While some people will just say "we already did that, done that" or "you can do it play those games" why not in ESO? This way it's not exactly the same. After all what we do is same old same old anyways. Go there, fetch this, fight that boss, rinse and repeat, you are the hero in the end after dying many times.
Why does it have to be side quests? Why can't it be something new. New idea. Why not be something new so when we make a new character we don't have to do the same old same old beginner quest. Or if you don't want to make a new character just have it continue as part of Caldwelss quest, "a new beginning".
ImmortalCX wrote: »After reading all the comments, I think I am misunderstanding something. Why are some people saying the Original Poster is wrong? Either I am misunderstanding what the original poster means or everyone else is getting it wrong. Since I am sure everyone is not getting it wrong, I guess it's me.
That said, let me say what I think the original poster ment. I agree, we could use a new "chapter" to go along the main quest or be a new main quest. We don't get rid of the main quest but we can also have another main quest. So like advancing the story.
Let us have Tamreil advance time wise a bit. By that I mean something new happened. Maybe a new villain. Have the cast of The Five Companions minus the one be in the quests. Heck I would love to do Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivon all over again but in a different way.
Why not let us find the 7 pieces of a staff? (or how many it was, memory is bad.) With memory continuing to be bad, why not do work for a certain person? Of course it can't be the Emperor but may an Emperor waiting to happen? Like with Oblivion, there is a hidden heir/heiress? How about being the Neverine again for the first time? While some people will just say "we already did that, done that" or "you can do it play those games" why not in ESO? This way it's not exactly the same. After all what we do is same old same old anyways. Go there, fetch this, fight that boss, rinse and repeat, you are the hero in the end after dying many times.
Why does it have to be side quests? Why can't it be something new. New idea. Why not be something new so when we make a new character we don't have to do the same old same old beginner quest. Or if you don't want to make a new character just have it continue as part of Caldwelss quest, "a new beginning".
Yes, you understand what I am asking. The problem with the many small content updates is that there isn't anything "big" happening in the world. The story doesn't advance once the main quest is completed.
When I was leveling, the main quest was metered out and done along with many side quests and exploration, giving the feeling that there was much to do. This was much how I played Skyrim; I explored and did many zone quests while waiting to complete the main quest.
What ZOS could do is make future chapters of the main quest (world advancing themes) that can only be completed by players who have achieved various CP levels. I know this would exclude many new players, but they would still have the original main quest to complete. And it would give motivation for players to keep advancing, story wise.
For instance, there could be another "main quest" that becomes unlocked at CP300 and that could be integrated with completion of a trial (or not). For instance, the story of the "main quest, chapter two" could be interwoven with the theme of one of the trials. For instance, the quest starts when an NPC approaches the player (much like original main quest), and the player then undertakes a largely scripted/instanced quest with puzzles, combat, and a story advancing narrative. At the end, the hero needs to obtain a plot device (item) by completing the normal version of a trial which is then handed in to the quest giver to complete the final stage of the quest. (The player wouldn't necessarily need to do this, but the final reward would be greater if he did...)
They could also create another main quest to be completed at CP600. And CP900.
The point is that the immersive and "world altering" feeling of the game ends when you complete the main quest and reach CP160. If there were future chapters of main quest that were unlocked at higher CP levels, it would feel like the world was alive and growing.
Even though the "many small releases" model is good, they have completely neglected the story telling and world building that typically comes in large expansions from other franchises.
Sevalaricgirl wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »After reading all the comments, I think I am misunderstanding something. Why are some people saying the Original Poster is wrong? Either I am misunderstanding what the original poster means or everyone else is getting it wrong. Since I am sure everyone is not getting it wrong, I guess it's me.
That said, let me say what I think the original poster ment. I agree, we could use a new "chapter" to go along the main quest or be a new main quest. We don't get rid of the main quest but we can also have another main quest. So like advancing the story.
Let us have Tamreil advance time wise a bit. By that I mean something new happened. Maybe a new villain. Have the cast of The Five Companions minus the one be in the quests. Heck I would love to do Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivon all over again but in a different way.
Why not let us find the 7 pieces of a staff? (or how many it was, memory is bad.) With memory continuing to be bad, why not do work for a certain person? Of course it can't be the Emperor but may an Emperor waiting to happen? Like with Oblivion, there is a hidden heir/heiress? How about being the Neverine again for the first time? While some people will just say "we already did that, done that" or "you can do it play those games" why not in ESO? This way it's not exactly the same. After all what we do is same old same old anyways. Go there, fetch this, fight that boss, rinse and repeat, you are the hero in the end after dying many times.
Why does it have to be side quests? Why can't it be something new. New idea. Why not be something new so when we make a new character we don't have to do the same old same old beginner quest. Or if you don't want to make a new character just have it continue as part of Caldwelss quest, "a new beginning".
Yes, you understand what I am asking. The problem with the many small content updates is that there isn't anything "big" happening in the world. The story doesn't advance once the main quest is completed.
When I was leveling, the main quest was metered out and done along with many side quests and exploration, giving the feeling that there was much to do. This was much how I played Skyrim; I explored and did many zone quests while waiting to complete the main quest.
What ZOS could do is make future chapters of the main quest (world advancing themes) that can only be completed by players who have achieved various CP levels. I know this would exclude many new players, but they would still have the original main quest to complete. And it would give motivation for players to keep advancing, story wise.
For instance, there could be another "main quest" that becomes unlocked at CP300 and that could be integrated with completion of a trial (or not). For instance, the story of the "main quest, chapter two" could be interwoven with the theme of one of the trials. For instance, the quest starts when an NPC approaches the player (much like original main quest), and the player then undertakes a largely scripted/instanced quest with puzzles, combat, and a story advancing narrative. At the end, the hero needs to obtain a plot device (item) by completing the normal version of a trial which is then handed in to the quest giver to complete the final stage of the quest. (The player wouldn't necessarily need to do this, but the final reward would be greater if he did...)
They could also create another main quest to be completed at CP600. And CP900.
The point is that the immersive and "world altering" feeling of the game ends when you complete the main quest and reach CP160. If there were future chapters of main quest that were unlocked at higher CP levels, it would feel like the world was alive and growing.
Even though the "many small releases" model is good, they have completely neglected the story telling and world building that typically comes in large expansions from other franchises.
Just no. ESO is just fine the way it is. I was sick of the main quest and doing it over and over again. Right now I have characters that do other things, one is doing the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild but only does delves and world bosses in the faction areas, etc. I don't think anything should be CP locked to anyone. I am also a proponent of ZOS giving us a Cyrodiil and Imperial City PvE zone.
The base game cost some $200,000,000 to make... if you think they're gonna shell that out again then