Is ESO successful enough to have a new major chapter w/ extra main quest?

TheShadowScout

ImmortalCX wrote: »

...vvardenfel was maybe 20 hours, cwc a bit smaller. Each expansion / dlc has a fairly limited scope...

...unless you realize that -technically- Vvardenfell, Clockwork City and Summerset together have -one- storyline in three parts! The exact one you got a hint for at the end of the Orsinium mainstory... three daedric princes working together to make a great mess, and up to the polayer characters to stop them.

And that is how things are likely to be in the future as well. At best we will get new stories in interconnected "chapters", more likely standalone tales like orsinium that still tie into the general story somehow... smaller ones as DLCs, larger ones would come as "chapters" so they can make more money to pay all their developers and still show some profit to the shareholders.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

What ZOS could do is make future chapters of the main quest (world advancing themes) that can only be completed by players who have achieved various CP levels...

Eh. I remember that one from veteran ranks, back when doing one region was not quite enough to gain you a full rank and I had to do two days or so worth of dailies in cyrodil to make up before I could start the next region and actually -use- the drops there... it was really, really annoying.
...
More likely would be storyline prerequesites? Like, "must have completed prior chapters to play this one"?
Its possible I suppose... and I for one would like to see it, true, since I tend to do it like that anyhow...
...but...
...I can see why they would not want this, since playing everything in the "proper order" is good for your first playthrough, but not so great if you have friends in the game and they invite you to do some questing, and you have to say "sorry, I am still two chapters behind for that one..." - which is -exactly- the situation they made "One Tamriel" to avoid.

Personally, I would love to see them add a "SUGGESTED" order of all the content... like, have the game tell you "No, don't do summerset before you finished Morrowind and CWC, since the two build up to the third", and not have the "intro" questgivers loiter around guilds, banks and inns before you actually get to that point...
...but still let you do it by using the quest starters in the "collections" menu if you go like "I know, I played it all that way last character, now I just wanna do some questing with that friend of mine who just started summerset..."

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

I was sick of the main quest and doing it over and over again...

...and it indeed is much better to be able to take a break from the "mainquest" zones and so something else for a change. Play mainquesting on your alt one day, do DLC zones on your main the next, them mainquesting on another alt in a different zone again, then start on an expansion with another alt... keeps things from getting too familiar and thus too boring, yes?
In that spirit... -more- things to do your questing in would be appreciated!

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

I am also a proponent of ZOS giving us a Cyrodiil and Imperial City PvE zone.

Only if the PvPlayers also get to PvP YOU in every PvE zone! Fiar's fair, after all, if you were to get a way around their PvP, they should get a way around your PvP-safezones, right?

Seriously tho, nah.
PvP zones are just that. If you want to go there to do the PvE, and we all do, then getting ganked a couple time each day (or hour when its IC) is the price you pay.
And I say that as someone who sucks at the PvPness!
I still did all the PvE with my main. By picking my times to when my side was strong. By sneaking a lot. And by still getting ganked a lot, respawning and just going elsewhere in cyrodil to do PvE stuff.
It took a while, but I managed. And it was FUN! The sense of danger that a DC or AD masterkilla might lurk behind every corner to jump me when I was questing outside my aliances zone was a bit stressful, but it also gave -meaning- to the struggle I undertook to avoid them. And felt so good the few times when I -did- manage to get out of a sticky situation!

PvPlayers while just as much about "having to PvE" for undaunted and other stuff. Its balanced. No need to change the official policy of ZOS of "PvE in PvE zones, PvP in PvP zones"...

lagrue

Davor wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

The base game cost some $200,000,000 to make... if you think they're gonna shell that out again then

Almost a quarter of a billion dollars you say to make? I don't think so. Where did you get the facts for this? Be nice to see if I am wrong. If anything your point is that it's either improve the graphics of the game especially if true quater of a billion dollars was spent to make the game, no way they will just let it tank and slide with out dated graphics then.

''ZeniMax Media recently announced a $300 million investment from Providence Equity Partners, and of course the massive success of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Fallout 3 only adds to the assets that helped fund ZeniMax Online. Suffice it to say, we're covered.''

This quote originally came from this link however the link is now old and defunct, leading to errors.

And if you check their investment records from during ESO's dev period it's actually more like 580+ Million. However we know a portion of that went to establishing Zenimax Online and not just dumped into ESO.

I'll retract the $200 Million statement because (and I only just found this out) it was an insider leak and was quickly swept under the rug.

ImmortalCX

My point is to "go big or go home".

These small horizontal updates are eventually going to wear thin.

Endgame in ESO is either very casual (log in an do daily writs, play guild traders, farm, or wander around and pick up quests you haven't done.)

Or very hardcore with regards to theorycrafting, set/group composition, DPS parses, and PVP.

The AAA feeling that the game has at the beginning is lost once the main story quest is completed. The remaining game is either casual-grindy or heavy theorycrafting/pvp/mechanics based.

IMO, the story, the lore, the world, the "AAA-ness" needs to be refreshed with major additions to main instanced quests in a dynamic world.

Endgame feeling is far from AAA.

UrQuan

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Yes, you understand what I am asking. The problem with the many small content updates is that there isn't anything "big" happening in the world. The story doesn't advance once the main quest is completed.

A story that started in Orsinium (albeit only with a couple of hints at the end), continued in Dark Brotherhood (although the significance of what happened there wasn't fully apparent until later), dominated the Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset story lines, and involved a massive plot between a cabal of Daedric Princes seeking to completely destroy and remake the world isn't anything "big"? That isn't the story advancing once the main quest is completed in your mind?

ImmortalCX

UrQuan wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Yes, you understand what I am asking. The problem with the many small content updates is that there isn't anything "big" happening in the world. The story doesn't advance once the main quest is completed.

A story that started in Orsinium (albeit only with a couple of hints at the end), continued in Dark Brotherhood (although the significance of what happened there wasn't fully apparent until later), dominated the Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset story lines, and involved a massive plot between a cabal of Daedric Princes seeking to completely destroy and remake the world isn't anything "big"? That isn't the story advancing once the main quest is completed in your mind?

There are two problems with this.

First is that there is no defined or understood order to this progression. I did it in this order CWC, wrothgar, vvardenfel. I recognize that there was a story between CWC and vvardenfel, still unsure how it relates to orsinium.

Second is that none of these DLC zones/xpacs have instanced quests, cinematic cut scenes, or anything that feels "AAA". They appear to be just more small quests that heavily recycle art resources from the base game.

Lack of direction, lack of depth.

I think ESO is probably the best MMO game out there, but I feel like I can see the writing on the wall, and without major updates to its AAA-ness, it will further devolve into a cash-shop, doll-crafting, generic, casual mess.

Danikat

UrQuan wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Yes, you understand what I am asking. The problem with the many small content updates is that there isn't anything "big" happening in the world. The story doesn't advance once the main quest is completed.

A story that started in Orsinium (albeit only with a couple of hints at the end), continued in Dark Brotherhood (although the significance of what happened there wasn't fully apparent until later), dominated the Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset story lines, and involved a massive plot between a cabal of Daedric Princes seeking to completely destroy and remake the world isn't anything "big"? That isn't the story advancing once the main quest is completed in your mind?

That's what I'm thinking too.

The story of the main game was us + concerned individuals + (eventually) faction leaders fighting 1 daedric prince who was trying to remake Tamriel.

The overarching storyline of the DLC and expansions is us + concerned individuals + faction leaders trying to stop 3 daedric princes who are trying to remake Tamriel.

I don't understand how that's not the same thing, other than one was released all in one go (but originally level gated so you had to play it a bit at a time) and the other is time gated because it's released a bit at a time.

I also don't understand what new major storylines have to do with horizontal vs. vertical progression which is something else the OP keeps on bringing up. Unless somehow it doesn't count as a main storyline unless it makes your character more powerful? To me those are two separate things, a lot of games often do have you level up as you go through the story and/or require you to be a certain level before you can do the next bit, but you don't need to add vertical progression to have a new storyline - as I think ESO has already shown with all the releases since One Tamriel.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Yes, you understand what I am asking. The problem with the many small content updates is that there isn't anything "big" happening in the world. The story doesn't advance once the main quest is completed.

A story that started in Orsinium (albeit only with a couple of hints at the end), continued in Dark Brotherhood (although the significance of what happened there wasn't fully apparent until later), dominated the Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset story lines, and involved a massive plot between a cabal of Daedric Princes seeking to completely destroy and remake the world isn't anything "big"? That isn't the story advancing once the main quest is completed in your mind?

There are two problems with this.

First is that there is no defined or understood order to this progression. I did it in this order CWC, wrothgar, vvardenfel. I recognize that there was a story between CWC and vvardenfel, still unsure how it relates to orsinium.

Second is that none of these DLC zones/xpacs have instanced quests, cinematic cut scenes, or anything that feels "AAA". They appear to be just more small quests that heavily recycle art resources from the base game.

Lack of direction, lack of depth.

I think ESO is probably the best MMO game out there, but I feel like I can see the writing on the wall, and without major updates to its AAA-ness, it will further devolve into a cash-shop, doll-crafting, generic, casual mess.

Ok that I can agree with - the game could do a much better job of showing you what the intended order is, so players can choose to play the story in order and therefore understand what's going on. I suspect that would address a lot of your complaints - if you had played the story in order you would understand how it fits together and realise there already is an overarching plot that ties all the "little" DLC/expansion stories together.

But I don't understand why it needs to be instanced to "feel AAA". Especially since the major complaint about the base game's main quest is that you're forced to play it solo, which seems very contradictory in an MMO. Content which can be played solo is fine but forcing you to play solo in an exclusively multiplayer game is weird and frustrated a lot of people because they'd set out to play the story together and then every few levels had to split the party to do the major steps alone.

ImmortalCX

Danikat wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Yes, you understand what I am asking. The problem with the many small content updates is that there isn't anything "big" happening in the world. The story doesn't advance once the main quest is completed.

A story that started in Orsinium (albeit only with a couple of hints at the end), continued in Dark Brotherhood (although the significance of what happened there wasn't fully apparent until later), dominated the Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset story lines, and involved a massive plot between a cabal of Daedric Princes seeking to completely destroy and remake the world isn't anything "big"? That isn't the story advancing once the main quest is completed in your mind?

That's what I'm thinking too.

The story of the main game was us + concerned individuals + (eventually) faction leaders fighting 1 daedric prince who was trying to remake Tamriel.

The overarching storyline of the DLC and expansions is us + concerned individuals + faction leaders trying to stop 3 daedric princes who are trying to remake Tamriel.

I don't understand how that's not the same thing, other than one was released all in one go (but originally level gated so you had to play it a bit at a time) and the other is time gated because it's released a bit at a time.

I also don't understand what new major storylines have to do with horizontal vs. vertical progression which is something else the OP keeps on bringing up. Unless somehow it doesn't count as a main storyline unless it makes your character more powerful? To me those are two separate things, a lot of games often do have you level up as you go through the story and/or require you to be a certain level before you can do the next bit, but you don't need to add vertical progression to have a new storyline - as I think ESO has already shown with all the releases since One Tamriel.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Yes, you understand what I am asking. The problem with the many small content updates is that there isn't anything "big" happening in the world. The story doesn't advance once the main quest is completed.

A story that started in Orsinium (albeit only with a couple of hints at the end), continued in Dark Brotherhood (although the significance of what happened there wasn't fully apparent until later), dominated the Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset story lines, and involved a massive plot between a cabal of Daedric Princes seeking to completely destroy and remake the world isn't anything "big"? That isn't the story advancing once the main quest is completed in your mind?

There are two problems with this.

First is that there is no defined or understood order to this progression. I did it in this order CWC, wrothgar, vvardenfel. I recognize that there was a story between CWC and vvardenfel, still unsure how it relates to orsinium.

Second is that none of these DLC zones/xpacs have instanced quests, cinematic cut scenes, or anything that feels "AAA". They appear to be just more small quests that heavily recycle art resources from the base game.

Lack of direction, lack of depth.

I think ESO is probably the best MMO game out there, but I feel like I can see the writing on the wall, and without major updates to its AAA-ness, it will further devolve into a cash-shop, doll-crafting, generic, casual mess.

Ok that I can agree with - the game could do a much better job of showing you what the intended order is, so players can choose to play the story in order and therefore understand what's going on. I suspect that would address a lot of your complaints - if you had played the story in order you would understand how it fits together and realise there already is an overarching plot that ties all the "little" DLC/expansion stories together.

But I don't understand why it needs to be instanced to "feel AAA". Especially since the major complaint about the base game's main quest is that you're forced to play it solo, which seems very contradictory in an MMO. Content which can be played solo is fine but forcing you to play solo in an exclusively multiplayer game is weird and frustrated a lot of people because they'd set out to play the story together and then every few levels had to split the party to do the major steps alone.

I played WOW through a few Xpacs many years ago. Each of their releases had major storylines, that were themed within a new continent, new factions, new mechanics, new gameplay modes, cinematics, and an overall slick "AAA" presentation. If you didn't play WOW then maybe you don't have this perspective.

I'm not saying that WOW is a role model and there were problems with their end game, but there were things they did right to become and stay the #1 MMO. A large part of that was the AAA quality and scale that they continued in each expansion.

UrQuan

ImmortalCX wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Yes, you understand what I am asking. The problem with the many small content updates is that there isn't anything "big" happening in the world. The story doesn't advance once the main quest is completed.

A story that started in Orsinium (albeit only with a couple of hints at the end), continued in Dark Brotherhood (although the significance of what happened there wasn't fully apparent until later), dominated the Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset story lines, and involved a massive plot between a cabal of Daedric Princes seeking to completely destroy and remake the world isn't anything "big"? That isn't the story advancing once the main quest is completed in your mind?

There are two problems with this.

First is that there is no defined or understood order to this progression.

Yes there is.
Wrothgar => Thieves Guild (not actually required for the story, but this is where the events of the Thieves Guild story fit into the timeline) => Dark Brotherhood => Morrowind => Clockwork City => Summerset

The dungeon DLCs don't really need to fall anywhere in the timeline AFAIK.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Second is that none of these DLC zones/xpacs have instanced quests, cinematic cut scenes, or anything that feels "AAA". They appear to be just more small quests that heavily recycle art resources from the base game.

Some of that statement is simply false (there are some instanced quests in them, and if you consider any of the main quest to have cinematic cut scenes, then there are similar ones in the DLCs and chapters), and the rest of it is subjective.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Lack of direction, lack of depth.

A coherent story building over the course of 3 years is a lack of direction and a lack of depth to you? I guess if you're just clicking through all of the dialogue in the quests and not paying attention to any of the foreshadowing, callbacks, recurring characters, and continuations of the story, then any content will seem like it has a lack of direction and a lack of depth. That's on you though.

kringled_1

ImmortalCX wrote: »

There are two problems with this.

First is that there is no defined or understood order to this progression. I did it in this order CWC, wrothgar, vvardenfel. I recognize that there was a story between CWC and vvardenfel, still unsure how it relates to orsinium.

Second is that none of these DLC zones/xpacs have instanced quests, cinematic cut scenes, or anything that feels "AAA". They appear to be just more small quests that heavily recycle art resources from the base game.

As with Danikat, I agree that there's not much internal to the game to tell you what order to play content in to have it make the most sense plot wise. However, it is very clear to me that they've thought out quite a lot of their plot content, a long time in advance. Some of that is only clear in hindsight for the player.

As far as your second set of points: first of all, most (all?) of the DLC zones have parts of their main quests that are instanced as well as parts that are in the open overworld. You may not have noticed the instanced portions but they are there.
While you might like cinematic cut scenes, I only really like them in content I play once or twice. I'm not as sure as you are that it adds enough value to the game to be worth producing.

ImmortalCX

UrQuan wrote: »

A coherent story building over the course of 3 years is a lack of direction and a lack of depth to you? I guess if you're just clicking through all of the dialogue in the quests and not paying attention to any of the foreshadowing, callbacks, recurring characters, and continuations of the story, then any content will seem like it has a lack of direction and a lack of depth. That's on you though.

If you do them in the wrong order, which I did, the story is not as recognizable. I helped two demi-gods, I helped dethrone a murderous tyrant (I thought Orsinium was AAA), but the overall feeling is not AAA.

I had no idea that the TG and DB questlines are related in any way and still have to complete those.

Kingslayer513

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Endgame in ESO is either very casual (log in an do daily writs, play guild traders, farm, or wander around and pick up quests you haven't done.)

Or very hardcore with regards to theorycrafting, set/group composition, DPS parses, and PVP.

I don't think you know what endgame is. Endgame is supposed to be hardcore. It's supposed to be the most challenging content the game has to offer. ESO's endgame is top notch with theory crafting, though I would like to see more content. Mindlessly doing daily writs is not endgame, not even close.

ImmortalCX

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Endgame in ESO is either very casual (log in an do daily writs, play guild traders, farm, or wander around and pick up quests you haven't done.)

Or very hardcore with regards to theorycrafting, set/group composition, DPS parses, and PVP.

Mindlessly doing daily writs is not endgame, not even close.

It is for casuals. Lots of high CP people just do role-playing things.

UrQuan

ImmortalCX wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

A coherent story building over the course of 3 years is a lack of direction and a lack of depth to you? I guess if you're just clicking through all of the dialogue in the quests and not paying attention to any of the foreshadowing, callbacks, recurring characters, and continuations of the story, then any content will seem like it has a lack of direction and a lack of depth. That's on you though.

If you do them in the wrong order, which I did, the story is not as recognizable. I helped two demi-gods, I helped dethrone a murderous tyrant (I thought Orsinium was AAA), but the overall feeling is not AAA.

I had no idea that the TG and DB questlines are related in any way and still have to complete those.

I could see how doing them out of order could make it less coherent, and I'd agree that it's not clear enough what order they should be done in to properly follow the story. You need to do them all in the order they were released, which is totally logical, but it also isn't really spelled out anywhere.

Saying that the overall feeling is not AAA is totally subjective, and I vehemently disagree with you on that. It's an epic storyline with recurring characters who you get to know and understand, it's all linked together in ways that aren't always apparent until you've played through it all, and it's a battle to prevent the complete destruction (and remaking) of all of Mundus. Literally the entire mortal realm is at stake.

As far as the TG and DB storylines being related, it's only DB that ties in with the massive story arc, and it's not the main DB storyline that ties in, rather it's 2 (very good) side quests that tie in. But you wouldn't really know that they're related until Morrowind, and you still wouldn't understand the true significance until Summerset.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Endgame in ESO is either very casual (log in an do daily writs, play guild traders, farm, or wander around and pick up quests you haven't done.)

Or very hardcore with regards to theorycrafting, set/group composition, DPS parses, and PVP.

Mindlessly doing daily writs is not endgame, not even close.

It is for casuals. Lots of high CP people just do role-playing things.

Casuals doing writs is not endgame. High CP people just doing RP-related things is not endgame. Endgame is any combination of vet trials, vet DLC dungeons, vet arenas, and PVP.

Edited to add vet arenas to endgame content, because I forgot to include them at first.

Mavor

No matter how many gimmicky new things WoW adds, it always ends up boiling down to the endgame being raid or unsub. ESO has much that a player like me desires - casual things to do and enjoy (housing, motif/recipe hunting, etc) at endgame that don't funnel you into raiding because there's nothing left to do.

UrQuan

Mavor wrote: »

No matter how many gimmicky new things WoW adds, it always ends up boiling down to the endgame being raid or unsub. ESO has much that a player like me desires - casual things to do and enjoy (housing, motif/recipe hunting, etc) at endgame that don't funnel you into raiding because there's nothing left to do.

And this is a good point. When I was saying that casual things like doing writs etc is not endgame, I probably should have also pointed out that the only thing that really matters is not whether you're doing endgame activities or not. It's whether you're enjoying what you're doing.

Really I was just pointing out that OP was misusing the term "endgame".

ImmortalCX

UrQuan wrote: »

Mavor wrote: »

No matter how many gimmicky new things WoW adds, it always ends up boiling down to the endgame being raid or unsub. ESO has much that a player like me desires - casual things to do and enjoy (housing, motif/recipe hunting, etc) at endgame that don't funnel you into raiding because there's nothing left to do.

And this is a good point. When I was saying that casual things like doing writs etc is not endgame, I probably should have also pointed out that the only thing that really matters is not whether you're doing endgame activities or not. It's whether you're enjoying what you're doing.

Really I was just pointing out that OP was misusing the term "endgame".

A pretty strong argument can be made that my definition is correct.

I understand that FF14 has a very well developed crafting system that can fully engage players. If a FF14 player reaches max level and spends all his time crafting/selling, is he not playing endgame? What about something like Eve Online that is mostly about commerce? Does the player have to have combat every time he logs on or its not "endgame"?

Endgame is the activities that players do when they have completed all the early content and reached the level cap. It includes things like crafting, rep grinds, commerce, and yes even raids.

This is a bit off topic. My original question still stands, let me paraphrase: Is ESO big/successful enough that they will deliver a "AAA" expansion sometime in the future? Or will it largely be cash shop, cosmetics, and reused art resources from here on out?

idk

Turelus wrote: »

I don't think we will get anything the size of the base game again, however with the chapters and DLC ZOS can tell new arching stories (like Morrowind - Summerset) over the content releases.

They've got some great writers working for them so I'd imagine they have plenty of interesting ideas still lined up.

Summerset, CWC were both great. Morrowind was good. Murkmire seems to use the same people to voice to many of the same characters. Seems I kept hearing the same person in a different NPC to much.

theyancey

Just as EQ went from EQ1 to EQ2 so should ESO. A new main game with a new engine. Have a new common area with the current game as well. Separate Plus subs with a heave discount for having both.

UrQuan

ImmortalCX wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Mavor wrote: »

No matter how many gimmicky new things WoW adds, it always ends up boiling down to the endgame being raid or unsub. ESO has much that a player like me desires - casual things to do and enjoy (housing, motif/recipe hunting, etc) at endgame that don't funnel you into raiding because there's nothing left to do.

And this is a good point. When I was saying that casual things like doing writs etc is not endgame, I probably should have also pointed out that the only thing that really matters is not whether you're doing endgame activities or not. It's whether you're enjoying what you're doing.

Really I was just pointing out that OP was misusing the term "endgame".

A pretty strong argument can be made that my definition is correct.

I understand that FF14 has a very well developed crafting system that can fully engage players. If a FF14 player reaches max level and spends all his time crafting/selling, is he not playing endgame? What about something like Eve Online that is mostly about commerce? Does the player have to have combat every time he logs on or its not "endgame"?

Endgame is the activities that players do when they have completed all the early content and reached the level cap. It includes things like crafting, rep grinds, commerce, and yes even raids.

This is a bit off topic. My original question still stands, let me paraphrase: Is ESO big/successful enough that they will deliver a "AAA" expansion sometime in the future? Or will it largely be cash shop, cosmetics, and reused art resources from here on out?

And your original question is still starting from a flawed premise. ESO has been delivering "AAA" DLC/chapters. You justb refuse to admit it, because apparently you haven't actually completed the content. It's as if you were looking at whatever big WoW expansion you're comparing it to, only you're doing only a small portion of that expansion, and then complaining that it didn't feel "AAA". Well yeah, because you didn't actually experience the content.

ImmortalCX

My mind is blown. I didn't actually experience the content.

Nothing more to say.

Aesthier

The actual endgame to any MMO is complaining in the forums.

Tannus15

I think by definition "end game" is what 's left after you've done all the "content". And by content I mean quests. The stories created for you by the dev team. The roller coaster, the theme park. I don't see the level cap as the start of end game because of the way the auto scaling works and the gear cap works and CP works. I would argue that CP160 is the arbitrary level cap because that's the gear cap. I include normal trials and dungeons in this because you can and should do them once just to see the content, even if you're not into grouping up.

End game is repeatable content that you do for the challenge or just fun.

To my mind ESO endgame falls into 4 broad categories.

Collecting stuff. Motifs, recipes, houses. Stuff. Most of this is not challenging, just time consuming.

Achievement hunting. Similar to collecting stuff, but some of this requires more "skill". especially for no death, speed run hard mode DLC achieves. Join the 31k club, you know you want to.

PvE. vet trials, progression guilds. Grinding more CP because you'll need it.

PvP. Get Emp, crush the enemy, learning all the intricacies of how builds work and don't work and why and all that jazz.

Simply put ESO has a lot of "end game" but usually people are in one of these categories and disregard the others and don't see them as "end game".
Just because you don't like PvP doesn't mean it's not end game. Likewise housing, or trials.

OrdoHermetica

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Given what they have done the last few years I think another Chapter will be coming out in 2020 or 2021; all depending if they have enough of a story and quest to make it a chapter.

As for 20 hours of game play out of each DLC for questing; this better than what other MMOs do which is daily boring repeatable quest that take roughly 5 minutes each to do and you get 3-8 a day and in various zones. Once you do this about 2-3 times you are bored and if you play more than one character you start to wonder what am I doing to myself.

I rather the game release 20 hour quest every 3-4 months than release repeatable boring quest that results in me falling asleep with my controller in hand.

Their stated goal is one Summerset- or Morrowind-sized chapter per year, one smaller DLC zone per year, and two dungeon DLC a year. So far they've kept true to that schedule, with Morrowind in 2017 and Summerset in 2018. So, we'll almost certainly see the next Chapter next year in 2019.