All unique weapons need 1 piece bonus like blackrose weapons

Bigevilpeter · October 2018

Very few arena weapons are viable now specially front bar in PvE, if you front bar them you drop a monster set losing 2 piece effects, Malestorm weapons already had it as base but was removed and only bow and destro staffs are usable now and on back bar.

Master weapons, asylem weapons almost useless in PvE.

Give people a reason to use them at least while this is still not enough, it might give some people a reason to use them

Valrien · October 2018

1. You don't have to drop a monster set to use a special weapon (even if you did, the tradeoff is generally fair). 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 and 1 is a perfectly viable set split

2. That being said I still agree

Bigevilpeter · October 2018

Valrien wrote: »

1. You don't have to drop a monster set to use a special weapon (even if you did, the tradeoff is generally fair). 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 and 1 is a perfectly viable set split

2. That being said I still agree

If you frontbar an arena weapon you will have only 10 slots empty enough for a 5-5 +weapon, so you will drop 2 monster set pieces

Vapirko · October 2018

It’s crazy ZOS nerfed vMA weapons like that. They ruined them for PvP entirely. And now only the bow and a couple staffs are even useable. And then they go and reintroduce that format with black rose weapons.

jcm2606 · October 2018

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

1. You don't have to drop a monster set to use a special weapon (even if you did, the tradeoff is generally fair). 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 and 1 is a perfectly viable set split

2. That being said I still agree

If you frontbar an arena weapon you will have only 10 slots empty enough for a 5-5 +weapon, so you will drop 2 monster set pieces

You would replace one of those 5-piece sets with a 3-piece jewelry+weapons set, such as Agility or Willpower. Run special weapons on both bars. That is a perfectly viable setup, especially in PVP.

Mettaricana · October 2018

Give it a couple dlcs black rose will lose its buffs

TheYKcid · October 2018

Valrien wrote: »

1. You don't have to drop a monster set to use a special weapon (even if you did, the tradeoff is generally fair). 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 and 1 is a perfectly viable set split

5/3/2/1+1 is absolutely not viable though, the sheer loss in raw stats is just too much of an opportunity cost.

The only build that really does that anymore is reach-spam Magsorc, and only because it's the only viable option they have, as bad as it is. And we know the sorry state Magsorc is in right now.

I've been creating numerous threads ever since the Summerset PTS back in May, explaining why this is a huge issue for Arena weps:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/411801/arena-weapons-desperately-need-a-1pc-stat-bonus-a-detailed-explanation/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/433525/zos-please-do-not-neglect-the-older-arena-weapons-in-murkmire-vma-vdsa-etc/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/439003/the-older-arena-weapons-vma-vdsa-vas-please-dont-neglect-them-again-during-this-pts-cycle/p1

There are plenty of numerical comparisons and back-and-forth arguments in those threads to substantiate the point. We had several rep replies, and the message was conveyed ZOS directly—they stated they were open to the idea of adding a 1pc stat bonus to the older Arena weapons, but had no current plans due to the extra "dungeon work" it would entail (???).

idk · October 2018

It has been suggested that the normal special weapons could drop in the normal difficulty and a perfected version that adds back the old static attribute as the 1pc weapon, or have a better and stronger set bonus such as the vAS weapons have.

In that suggestion it has been included that maybe with MA (and even DSA) the perfected drops with more than just a clear of vet, but a higher standard such as a no sigil run in vMA. Not sure what could be done in DSA. It would make sense because perfect vAS weapons and the vCR gear require a higher standard than just clearing on vet.

TheShadowScout · October 2018

Personally I dislike "one-piece bonus" things.
Though I suppose for weapons... that could be a two-piece bonus, even if its one two-handed weapon (which now counts as two pieces anyhow) and we already have those with monster sets, yes?

I would however love to see "set plus one" bonus things... like, weapons that have a seperate effect as long as they are added to a existing set. Like... wear five pieces of this set, and add this "unique" weapon for giving the weapon an extra effect... wear two pieces of that monster set and add that "unique" weapon for giving the weapon an extra effect... etc.

I also would love to see more set variability... we have two piece, three piece and five piece sets, why no four piece or six piece sets?

John_Falstaff · October 2018

While we're at that, I wonder if vMA S+B is any good for tanking? Or Master for that matter. I'm looking at two pairs of vMA swords and shields gathering dust, and I wonder if they're of any use, or a deconstruction material like most things from there.

Generally, the case is a bit more complicated (at least in PvE). vMA and Master bow are viable because they sit on back bar and most of the time player can keep 5+5+2 set effect - but for same reason, adding 1pc bonus to staff and bow won't make huge difference. Front bar sets like Cruel Flurry force one to permanently lose 5+5+2 effect (go without monster helm or with 3-piece jewelry set), Summerset only widened the gap - so I'm not sure if even giving those sets the old 1pc bonuses would make them viable. They all make one go for more sacrifices than bow/inferno.

Shezzarrine · October 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

While we're at that, I wonder if vMA S+B is any good for tanking? Or Master for that matter. I'm looking at two pairs of vMA swords and shields gathering dust, and I wonder if they're of any use, or a deconstruction material like most things from there.

Generally, the case is a bit more complicated (at least in PvE). vMA and Master bow are viable because they sit on back bar and most of the time player can keep 5+5+2 set effect - but for same reason, adding 1pc bonus to staff and bow won't make huge difference. Front bar sets like Cruel Flurry force one to permanently lose 5+5+2 effect (go without monster helm or with 3-piece jewelry set), Summerset only widened the gap - so I'm not sure if even giving those sets the old 1pc bonuses would make them viable. They all make one go for more sacrifices than bow/inferno.

Those arena sword and board sets are alright, I do use both of them on different tanks. I mostly use them just because I have them but they can be nice. The only thing is that you have to make sure to switch to your back bar if you need to proc alkosh because it will remove alkoshs 4 and 5 pc bonuses on the front bar.
Lots of end game DPS I know who start to try out tanking use one of these sets because it helps out beginner tanks quite a bit but they are absolutely not "needed", especially in the way the bow/inferno are.

John_Falstaff · October 2018

@Shezzarrine , that's more or less my case. ^^ I'm sDK DPS, but I pondered about trying on doubling down as tank for simpler cases - like when guild mates gather for an impromptu pledge run and we have one DD too many and no tank at hand. Just an attempt to be more versatile if situation demands. So, thanks for the hint; in that case, I'll definitely try them as part of the 'learning' tank build when I'll put one together.

xRIVALENx · October 2018

Master weapons are far from useless in PvE. Currently running the following setup:

5 x War Machine
3 x Agility
2 x Kra'gh
Masters Dual Wield
Masters Bow

Without having my rotation perfected my Stamblade still pulls 44k on a self parse, there is room for improvement and yet it is more than enough for the current PvE content we have. There is nothing wrong with running a 5/3/2 setup with Arena weapons, it is perfectly viable.

Apherius · October 2018

Mettaricana wrote: »

Give it a couple dlcs black rose will lose its buffs

3/4 of these black rose weapons are already super useless, I hope they won't nerf them.

zaria · October 2018

Mettaricana wrote: »

Give it a couple dlcs black rose will lose its buffs

Why? the 1 piece stat tend to be standard for the hard / vet version of weapons now, with normal missing it.

ZonasArch · October 2018

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

1. You don't have to drop a monster set to use a special weapon (even if you did, the tradeoff is generally fair). 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 and 1 is a perfectly viable set split

2. That being said I still agree

If you frontbar an arena weapon you will have only 10 slots empty enough for a 5-5 +weapon, so you will drop 2 monster set pieces

YRub 5+3+2 with weapon sets. They are fairly decent and batch a lot better with monster sets for a "5" set. Still perfectly viable.

LapisLazuli99 · November 2018

I'm all for OPs point atleast keep "Master Level" weapons on par with each other Zos XD

xaraan · November 2018

I agree. Maybe create 'regular' versions with no one piece bonus for the non-vet DSA and MA weapons just like they have for the new perfect weapons - and then add the one piece bonus to all the old one piece weapons that were earned (and will be earned in future vet versions). The drops should work the same across content IMO.

Masel · November 2018

They wont do that without adding a new difficulty to DSA and vMA. I've had a chat with @ZOS_RobGarrett about this a few weeks ago.

Asylum might be possible, but the older ones I don't see happening any time soon.

THE_BIG_BOSS · November 2018

Masel wrote: »

They wont do that without adding a new difficulty to DSA and vMA. I've had a chat with @ZOS_RobGarrett about this a few weeks ago.

Asylum might be possible, but the older ones I don't see happening any time soon.

Doesnt make sense at all.

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

While we're at that, I wonder if vMA S+B is any good for tanking? Or Master for that matter. I'm looking at two pairs of vMA swords and shields gathering dust, and I wonder if they're of any use, or a deconstruction material like most things from there.

Generally, the case is a bit more complicated (at least in PvE). vMA and Master bow are viable because they sit on back bar and most of the time player can keep 5+5+2 set effect - but for same reason, adding 1pc bonus to staff and bow won't make huge difference. Front bar sets like Cruel Flurry force one to permanently lose 5+5+2 effect (go without monster helm or with 3-piece jewelry set), Summerset only widened the gap - so I'm not sure if even giving those sets the old 1pc bonuses would make them viable. They all make one go for more sacrifices than bow/inferno.

VMA daggers have been unreliable since before the iceage...they got nerfed to much back in the days
And now youre not even sure if thry still work after each patch
Furthermore they are expensive as hell to run sustainwise.
Dots dont get buffed more than the loss of a monsterset would cover
Even vDSA daggers with their flat ammount are stronger than vMA daggers

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

They wont do that without adding a new difficulty to DSA and vMA. I've had a chat with @ZOS_RobGarrett about this a few weeks ago.

Asylum might be possible, but the older ones I don't see happening any time soon.

Doesnt make sense at all.

Have to agree, that would onve again srew the longtime playing playerbase

We have run vMa vDSA back in the days when it wasnt as easy as it is now. Adding newer stronger weapons in there just available in a HM scenario wont end up good.
Yes we endgamers will complete it pretty fast i assume, but the idea alone to rerun vMA over and over just to get a slightly stronger weapon....rngjesus may bless us to get the weapontype we want...thats judt forcing players to do content again and agsin which they have cleared years ago

Masel · November 2018

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

THE_BIG_BOSS wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

They wont do that without adding a new difficulty to DSA and vMA. I've had a chat with @ZOS_RobGarrett about this a few weeks ago.

Asylum might be possible, but the older ones I don't see happening any time soon.

Doesnt make sense at all.

Have to agree, that would onve again srew the longtime playing playerbase

We have run vMa vDSA back in the days when it wasnt as easy as it is now. Adding newer stronger weapons in there just available in a HM scenario wont end up good.
Yes we endgamers will complete it pretty fast i assume, but the idea alone to rerun vMA over and over just to get a slightly stronger weapon....rngjesus may bless us to get the weapontype we want...thats judt forcing players to do content again and agsin which they have cleared years ago

I'm with you gyus on that. I ran vMA about 350-400 times by now, and introducing them this way would make all that time pretty much wasted effort. That's why i focus on the aslyum weapons for now, because there we already have a situation where it is easier to change stuff.

These weapons compete with a 5-piece set nowadays and they simply cannot do that. You can front bar siroria/bsw/spell strategist on magicka and it's always gonna be better than the front bar destruction staff.

Same goes for stamina, the arena weapons just don't add enough dps to justify using them, not even talking about the missing 4-piece. I keep pressuring them on this issue, because it is important. I want more options for PvE dps, and right now we simpyl don't have them (AY/Veiled/ravager+relequen/war machine/maelstrom bow) is all we have. I remember the days when stam dk was so much fun to play with maelstrom dual wield.