ZOS — PLEASE do not neglect the older Arena weapons in Murkmire (vMA, vDSA, etc.)

TheYKcid

If the leaks concerning the upcoming Blackrose weapons are legitimate, it would seem the devs have acknowledged that a 2pc Arena weapon set—which occupies two slots in your build—ought to provide two bonuses. 1pc of generic stats, and a special 2pc effect (which in the case of Arena weps, modifies an ability from the corresponding skill line). No different from the very commonplace 2pc Monster sets.

Following this line of logic... please give the older Arena weapons the same treatment to keep them viable.

Many of them have been severely underperforming ever since Summerset made 2Hs count as two set pieces. Which means, to run these weapons on the frontbar, you are sacrificing the 4th and 5th piece bonuses of a 5pc set. This is a huge and practically insurmountable opportunity cost, as Arena weps give NO stats at all, and the special effect only boosts one ability in your entire combo/rotation. The ones that survived this change were already typically run on the backbar; your stats on this bar have minimal impact as you simply apply the effect then swap to front.

Adding a 1pc stat bonus would revitalise many of these options, making build formats that incorporate them on the frontbar more competitive with 5/5/2. And to address balance concerns... rest assured that this change would not make them BiS or mandatory. 5/5/2 will still provide the best raw stats or procs on the frontbar, while the existing backbar Arena sets are negligibly affected by virtue of how backbars and carry-over effects work.

I highly recommend viewing this thread I made during the Summerset PTS cycle for more in-depth analyses regarding the numbers and practicalities that this change would entail.

So, ZOS, please do not forget to retroactively extend this feature to the existing Arena weapons. Many people worked very hard to earn theirs, and it's only reasonable to make them somewhat competitive with generic, easily-obtained 5/5/2 sets. Not even superior, just competitive. As opposed to the garbage that many of them have been in the months since Summerset.

TheYKcid

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

Morgul667

Would be nice indeed

Feels like they are not so usefull anymore

I hope unperfected versions alsobget something

Masel

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

I'll make sure to remind them.

TheYKcid

Thanks for notifying, @Masel92! It makes me really glad to know that the reps are actively communicating with ZOS on this issue.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

Or give them at most 50% of whatever stat the perfected one get

WrathOfInnos

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

Some normal Asylum weapons have a much weaker 2pc bonus than the Perfected versions (destruction staff), while others are insignificantly different (2 hander).

What if they were to give the Perfected 2pc bonus to both Perfected and normal Asylum weapons, but as you said reserve the additional stat bonus for just the Perfected. This would mirror the Perfected sets from Cloudrest, by having equal unique bonuses, and just a single stat bonus difference between normal and Perfected versions.

Vapirko

Well they’re giving us a 4 man arena instead of two like we asked and they’re giving the old vMA 1pc to the new weapons, and they haven’t fixed any of the bugs or done anything for vMA weapons since ruining 90% of them, so I wouldn’t hold your breath. ZOS tends to just push on into new territory while letting old stuff pile up.

ruikkarikun

BUFF ELDER WEAPONS AND BRING TOKEN CHANGE SYSTEM.

Your new weapons will be unavailable, like DSA, still can't get bow, daggers. GG you makeing stupid system when some lucky guy drop thing from 1-3 runs and some other CAN"T GET IT FOR YEAR. IS IT NICE???

iCaliban

100% agree. The arena weapons should be standardized and kept relevant throughout the patches. Zos, people who play vDSA buy crowns just the same as people who play the murkmire arena. Give them a 1pc bonus!

TheYKcid

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

Some normal Asylum weapons have a much weaker 2pc bonus than the Perfected versions (destruction staff), while others are insignificantly different (2 hander).

What if they were to give the Perfected 2pc bonus to both Perfected and normal Asylum weapons, but as you said reserve the additional stat bonus for just the Perfected. This would mirror the Perfected sets from Cloudrest, by having equal unique bonuses, and just a single stat bonus difference between normal and Perfected versions.

This suggestion seems fair. I guess I'm too used to thinking of Asylum weapons from the perspective of 2H, bow, and resto—where there's virtually no downside to imperfects. But I can see how it would be a double-whammy for something like the destro.

That said, would making the new imperfect destro as strong as the current perfected be too much? The current perfected destro is BiS on a forcepulse non-pet sorc (PvE), as far as I know (the only frontbar Arena wep that's still competitive, although in a very niche way).

karekiz

Add the current version to normal mode as imperfected and update vet drops with perfected stat bonus version.

Also back upgrading would be nice.

XxCaLxX

Want the 1pc bonus back for sure. As I’ve posted before I just think there should be different types of 1pc bonuses. VMA staves with either 1pc as spell damage, Spell Crit or Max Magicka or vMA bow with weapon damage, Weapon Crit or max stamina etc. Random drop. Make farming them worth it again and different option for different builds.

Facefister

imperfected and perfected is the worst thing happened to this game.

Nyladreas

Facefister wrote: »

imperfected and perfected is the worst thing happened to this game.

Why? Let the dedicated people be rewarded as they rightfully deserve.

Facefister

Nyladreas wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

imperfected and perfected is the worst thing happened to this game.

Why? Let the dedicated people be rewarded as they rightfully deserve.

I am not against cosmetic, pet and mount rewards. But I am especially against equipment disparity. If I want a gear treadmill, I switch to WoW.

Nyladreas

Facefister wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

imperfected and perfected is the worst thing happened to this game.

Why? Let the dedicated people be rewarded as they rightfully deserve.

I am not against cosmetic, pet and mount rewards. But I am especially against equipment disparity. If I want a gear treadmill, I switch to WoW.

Noone is forcing you to do it or get that gear though. If you just so happen to feel inferior cause you don't want to or can't do the hardest content, well then whose problem is that?

Not the elite players or the devs that's for sure. The way some people on here think is bizarre...

If you decide to go the extra effort and do the harder content, then you deserve it, nobody forces anyone to do it though and you can do just fine with imperfect weapons lol.

This is giving me a headache.

Facefister

"Noone is forcing you blablabla"
It's about the lingering disparity about gear here, I couldn't care less about those weapons. Equipment freedom is one of the main aspects which motivates me to play this game. Spreading equipment drops into different tiers is totally against this freedom.
Besides, I'll clear that thing on veteran on day one.

Ramber

Almost none of the vMA weapons were any good before Summerset and stuff just got worse after. I'm kinda shocked this is a recent post as this was seen a mile away and was asked about before the release. As in are they doing anything to give us a reason to use them with the 4/5 = 5/5 changed?? and the answer was no they didn't add anything to maelstrom or masters weapons. Ideas included giving back their weapon/spell damage bonuses they took away. I would love to be able to use my maelstrom 1h and 2h weapons (stam), The only good weapons being the bow and flame/lightning staves. Masters is actually the same just swap the lightning staff with the resto staff

So yeah Id love to be able to play with the weapons that took me months to finally acquire only to have them be glitched as the 1h weapons are and the rest mostly useless as they stand.

Aliyavana

Agreed. I expect the people who can't earn the arena weapons themselves to disagree tho

D0PAMINE

Aliyavana wrote: »

Agreed. I expect the people who can't earn the arena weapons themselves to disagree tho

As long as everyone has access to great sets(which we do), then those who put forth the effort to aquire vMA, Masters etc should be rewarded.

TheYKcid

Ramber wrote: »

Almost none of the vMA weapons were any good before Summerset and stuff just got worse after. I'm kinda shocked this is a recent post as this was seen a mile away and was asked about before the release.

Funnily enough I was one of the first to post about this issue during the Summerset PTS (the thread I linked, dated May 10th), as soon as I glanced at the PTS notes.

But that wasn't the greatest PTS cycle, some very broken things that were consistently highlighted made it through to live (Sload's and Rune Cage).

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Agreed. I expect the people who can't earn the arena weapons themselves to disagree tho

As long as everyone has access to great sets(which we do), then those who put forth the effort to aquire vMA, Masters etc should be rewarded.

5/5/2 will still be better than Arena weps for frontbar usage anyway, so people shouldn't have to worry.

Masel

Aliyavana wrote: »

Agreed. I expect the people who can't earn the arena weapons themselves to disagree tho

To be fair, dps is so incredibly high this patch that you don't need any high end gear to even complete hard mode trails...

TheYKcid

Masel92 wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Agreed. I expect the people who can't earn the arena weapons themselves to disagree tho

To be fair, dps is so incredibly high this patch that you don't need any high end gear to even complete hard mode trails...

This. Builds with no vMA weps can easily pull 30k+ DPS which is enough for vMoL.

TheYKcid wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

Some normal Asylum weapons have a much weaker 2pc bonus than the Perfected versions (destruction staff), while others are insignificantly different (2 hander).

What if they were to give the Perfected 2pc bonus to both Perfected and normal Asylum weapons, but as you said reserve the additional stat bonus for just the Perfected. This would mirror the Perfected sets from Cloudrest, by having equal unique bonuses, and just a single stat bonus difference between normal and Perfected versions.

That said, would making the new imperfect destro as strong as the current perfected be too much? The current perfected destro is BiS on a forcepulse non-pet sorc (PvE), as far as I know (the only frontbar Arena wep that's still competitive, although in a very niche way).

In response to my earlier post, I've been informed that even the perfected Asylum destro is no longer BiS for magsorc (everyone running shock glyphs in a raid means the minor vuln uptime is the same either way). 5/5/2 with ele wep is superior. So I guess giving the new imperfect the same effect as perfected, but without the stats, wouldn't be game-breaking at all.

idk

Vapirko wrote: »

Well they’re giving us a 4 man arena instead of two like we asked and they’re giving the old vMA 1pc to the new weapons, and they haven’t fixed any of the bugs or done anything for vMA weapons since ruining 90% of them, so I wouldn’t hold your breath. ZOS tends to just push on into new territory while letting old stuff pile up.

Yes, some have asked for 2 man but players have asked for all different sized groups for the next arena since DSA was launched including 6 and 8 man.

More importantly a 2 man group is very limiting as it means no true tanks or healers. It would mostly be a 2 man MA but of course could mean a tank could carry a dps that is challenged with area awareness through it but that is a weak justification.

TheYKcid

Murkmire PTS is less than a day away!

Giving this a bump so that everyone's aware of the issue as we go into the PTS cycle, and can provide feedback if the feature is neglected or implemented poorly somehow.

John_Falstaff

I'm all for giving a boost to older Arena weapons. Though with Summerset changes, I'm not sure if simply returning old 1-piece bonuses would be enough, because this time around, 1-piece Arena bonus will be competing with 4- and 5-piece bonuses of a five-piece set combined. So if one was to replace, say, Hunding's axe + dagger with vMA Cruel Flurry set, then vMA's bonus better be worth the loss of 833 critical and 299 damage.

(Granted, yet to see if sustain changes aren't like "sustain buff" slap on the face given earlier to DKs, else I still won't be able to sustain Cruel Flurry rotation.)

Emma_Overload

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

LOL, you RUIN your argument in the original post with this second comment. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, in my opinion. It's totally hypocritical to beg for a "fix" for the Arena and Master's weapons, and then turn around and screw over imperfect Asylum staff owners, who are ALREADY overly nerfed compared to other Asylum weapon users.

Don't even bother making these selfish threads. It's obvious you don't care about what's fair or balanced and only want buffs for your own personal gear.

WrathOfInnos

Emma_Overload wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

LOL, you RUIN your argument in the original post with this second comment. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, in my opinion. It's totally hypocritical to beg for a "fix" for the Arena and Master's weapons, and then turn around and screw over imperfect Asylum staff owners, who are ALREADY overly nerfed compared to other Asylum weapon users.

Don't even bother making these selfish threads. It's obvious you don't care about what's fair or balanced and only want buffs for your own personal gear.

I think the point here was to standardize the amount of difference between Perfected and Imperfected weapons. Some have insignificant difference right now, while others are massive and not worth using the Imperfect (looking mostly at destro here). If for example, the Imperfect Asylum destro got the 2pc bonus that the Perfected version currently has, it would be a massive buff for this "easy to obtain" weapon.

To keep the Perfected something sought after, it could be given one standard stat bonus above the Imperfect, which is a precedent that was set with the Cloudrest sets, and has worked out well. It typically results in about 2% DPS difference between the Perfected and Imperfect sets, which IMO is an appropriate reward for completing the hardest content in the game and not overly punishing to those that haven't yet. It's the difference between a 50k parse and a 51k, hardly gamebreaking.

swirve

vMA weapons should either be rebranded to perfected and given a 1piece or a new harder level of vMA that gives perfected needs to be introduced.

Both options would lead to crying however even though it would in some way improve vMA gear.

TheYKcid

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I'm all for giving a boost to older Arena weapons. Though with Summerset changes, I'm not sure if simply returning old 1-piece bonuses would be enough, because this time around, 1-piece Arena bonus will be competing with 4- and 5-piece bonuses of a five-piece set combined. So if one was to replace, say, Hunding's axe + dagger with vMA Cruel Flurry set, then vMA's bonus better be worth the loss of 833 critical and 299 damage.

(Granted, yet to see if sustain changes aren't like "sustain buff" slap on the face given earlier to DKs, else I still won't be able to sustain Cruel Flurry rotation.)

@John_Falstaff To be fair, you're not strictly losing a full 4 & 5pc bonus, because were you to frontbar an Arena wep, you'd probably pair it with agility/willpower jewels, which give the equivalent of 2.82 times of a standard 1-4pc bonus.

So, combining that with the new 1pc bonus on the Arena wep, the actual trade off is:

Loss: 5pc bonus
Gain: Ability-altering effect + 82% of 1-4pc bonus

82% of a 1-4pc WD bonus is about 105 WD, to put things in perspective, so it's really not a bad trade at all. Ultimately 5/5/2 will have the best raw stats or procs, but I think Arena + agi/willpower will be in a very good spot after this change.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

PS. in the case of Asylum weapons, I would support only giving the 1pc stat bonus to the perfected variants, in a similar way to how the perfected Cloudrest sets get an additional stat bonus over the imperfect ones. Normal Asylum weapons are far too easy to obtain to justify receiving this buff, in my opinion.

LOL, you RUIN your argument in the original post with this second comment. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, in my opinion. It's totally hypocritical to beg for a "fix" for the Arena and Master's weapons, and then turn around and screw over imperfect Asylum staff owners, who are ALREADY overly nerfed compared to other Asylum weapon users.

Don't even bother making these selfish threads. It's obvious you don't care about what's fair or balanced and only want buffs for your own personal gear.

If you'd read the thread you'd have noticed I supported giving imperfect weapons the same bonus as perfected ones, which is actually a significant buff to the destro. But then again, I'm talking to someone who supported nerfing arena weapons on the basis that you were unable to obtain them (would link your post except a moderator removed it for baiting lmao).