DPS DPS DPS DPS

Leocaran · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you want to linger and enjoy the NPC dialogue, a random group probably isnt the best choice either.

One huge problem with that: you can do a dungeon's quest only once. If you want to get the story you have one try. And as I understand if you select specific dungeon in GF you still get same random dungeon people with you.
Also you just can't demand people to fully level char without random dungeons, then start doing them solo for quests. Or that all people must find guilds to firstly run quests in dungeons and use GF only after all quests have been finished. That's absurd.

Zardayne · October 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

I really have a hard time enjoying anything but solo content anymore. The gradual shift of the game's focus over the years has turned what started as a great community to your typical online gaming cesspool.

Everyone in the dungeon finder wants to pull the entire dungeon as fast as possible and burn through everything without pausing to take a breath. They usually don't even bother talking, and will ignore you if you do. Just now, I was put on the queue cooldown twice because I refused to group with two people in the queue who were behaving this way. The healer was barking orders and pulling everything. As soon as I left, both him and his friend started sending me hate tells, calling me all manner of names I'd get banned for repeating here, and telling me how terrible I am despite being over 800 cp (1298, in fact). I won't go into detail on just how "terrible" I am.

This isn't an isolated incident. It's a daily occurrence. This isn't a complaint about the monetization model, although that is a contributing factor. The game has turned into nothing more than a DPS race in every scenario. Nobody is interested in enjoying the gameplay. They just want to grind out to the next goal. There is no incentive to socialize. There is no incentive to play a real tank outside of trials. The best choice is almost always four DPS. Most dungeon queues have DPS pretending to be tanks just to get in faster. If I'm not playing with friends, my tank is relegated to sprinting behind the DPS to keep up. This isn't fun.

The problem is most of the aforementioned friends don't bother playing anymore for the very same reasons. I'm in several guilds, but people are hardly ever interested in helping me with the content I am trying to do because there is so much more to be gained from solo, 'me-first' content. There are too many daily obligations to keep up in ESO these days.

Honestly, the combat team has really let this game fall apart. It's just not fun anymore.

Welcome to the new age of MMOs. MMOs used to be social and fun. These days they are just anti-social, epeen contest of who pulls more dps. The devs are mostly to blame for this. They push standards so high that you have to be super serious with your gaming time or you will not be able to clear content.

~Start of Rant~
I to watched all my old ESO friends quit the game. I still hung around because it was somewhat fun. But that and Mirkmire destruction of my jplaystyle. Has pushed me away from ESO for at least the near future. At least in GW2 it's fun to play Magical based characters. So there I am. A new 14 day old account and $300 dropped on said account. That could've went to ZOS instead. But they've gutted my fun, so for now I take my money elsewhere.
~End of Rant~

I definitely agree with your first paragraph..20+ years of this genre and they are slowly going downhill IMO.

GreenHere · October 2018

Abigail wrote: »

I'm one of those "fake DDs." I run only equipment that can be crafted or picked up in zones, though I have gotten round to golding all but my jewelry. On top of that, in six months I've run only a few dungeons and they're basically all new to me. Worse, I'm a crap player; therefore, I never do group content because I'm a crap player and that makes me nervous (hands shake) and I become even more of a crap player. I did run normals and vets when I first started, as a healer, but I died a lot and I wasn't good at it. So I just stopped. I've been in one random daily -- got through it as dps -- but I did not understand the prison or boss's mechanics and the group had to carry me through a lot of it. They were also moving so quickly that I could not pick up the quests. My hands were shaking too badly for me to type and tell them. I knew I sucked completely. It was far from fun and I shall never run another group dungeon. Ever.

I don't blame other players or the game for my failures -- it's all on me. Ironically, I'm pretty careful about my builds and I can output 35K on my best alt. But when you suck at everything else, that doesn't matter much.

I only add this here by way of saying not all of us have a capacity to get gud in any elitist sense, or we're doing a dungeon for the first time and may need more patience and explanation from the group. When everyone wants to rush rush rush (and I do commiserate with those who've run dungeons 500 times) it's going to turn off a lot of new players and that will eventually kill this wonderful game by shear attrition of old and new players.

With dps like that, you can easily solo a great many of the "group" dungeons! Even on veteran. I do it with less dps. Just gotta have a little bit of survivability (very little, honestly), and knowledge of basic mechanics (which you're free to learn at your own pace when solo).

I'd encourage you, and everyone in this thread who has trouble grouping, to give solo dungeon runs a try. Really. On normal, most of them aren't much harder than Delves. And no one shies away from those.

Good dungeons to start with, for getting your feet wet in solo, are:
- City of Ash 1
- Fungal Grotto 1
- Darkshade Caverns 1
- Vaults of Madness
- Arx Corinium

None of those dungeons have terribly punishing mechanics, but do have mechanics that you can easily learn by observation. They'll help you become a more competent player by simply showing you what to avoid, when to interrupt, et cetera. And even if you can't / refuse to do those things, you can still just murder everything in sight and clear the dungeon anyway, haha.

Most importantly, none of them require a second player for any reason. So if other people's pace preferences or whatever are a problem, then your problems are solved by doing it alone; which you'd be surprised how easily you can.

GreenHere · October 2018

Leocaran wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you want to linger and enjoy the NPC dialogue, a random group probably isnt the best choice either.

One huge problem with that: you can do a dungeon's quest only once. If you want to get the story you have one try. And as I understand if you select specific dungeon in GF you still get same random dungeon people with you.
Also you just can't demand people to fully level char without random dungeons, then start doing them solo for quests. Or that all people must find guilds to firstly run quests in dungeons and use GF only after all quests have been finished. That's absurd.

True. But you don't have to accept the dungeon quest just because the dude's standing there with an arrow over his head, you know. You can only complete the quest once, but it'll always be available until you pick it up and complete it. You can ignore it until you're ready.

If you want to linger on and enjoy the story that a dungeon has to offer, doing it with random people who apparently don't give a single crap about you seems unwise. I think that was more @VaranisArano 's point.

To be clear: I like the dungeon storylines, and am always always willing to wait for people who just say in chat "dueng qwst" or whatever. It's like 90 extra seconds added to the dungeon in most cases. Hell, if they type in full sentences and ask something like "Do you guys mind if I pick up the quest, please?", I usually make a friend! I'm not at all against picking up the quests when you're doing a random; just seems to me tuning your expectations accordingly is necessary. They're random strangers on the internet, after all. Play to the group, instead of expecting them to play to you; you'll hate the Group Finder a lot less.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Leocaran wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you want to linger and enjoy the NPC dialogue, a random group probably isnt the best choice either.

One huge problem with that: you can do a dungeon's quest only once. If you want to get the story you have one try. And as I understand if you select specific dungeon in GF you still get same random dungeon people with you.
Also you just can't demand people to fully level char without random dungeons, then start doing them solo for quests. Or that all people must find guilds to firstly run quests in dungeons and use GF only after all quests have been finished. That's absurd.

I'm happy to let people quest and do my best to wait for questers. Since I'm usually playing the tank or the healer, that means most groups wait as well.

But if your desire is to wait and linger over every line of dialogue, well, there's no guarantee that your random teammates are going to be that patient. If your teammates being patient is really important to you, then yeah, you might want to think about questing with friends, guildmates, or get a group together from zone chat who's willing to wait for you instead of using groupfinder. That's not an absurd idea - this is an MMO and the social part of the game does have its benefits.

Its a matter of priorities. If you want a group that's guaranteed to wait for you, especially if you mean to linger over dialogue, I would not recommend using Groupfinder. Groupfinder gets you people to conplete the dungeon with, and that's about it.

GreenHere wrote: »

If you want to linger on and enjoy the story that a dungeon has to offer, doing it with random people who apparently don't give a single crap about you seems unwise. I think that was more @VaranisArano 's point.

Yep, that's pretty much it exactly. Many random groups will be tolerant of questers, some will be very patient, and others very impatient. Groupfinder gets you random teammates.

If your purpose is to farm gear, enjoy the quest, speedrun, no-death run, or really anything other than just completing the dungeon with random teammates...a pre-made group from zone, friends, or guild will probably serve you better than randoms from groupfinder.

Izaki · October 2018

Raraaku wrote: »

It's been an issue for a while now. I'm really hoping that the Dev team can figure out a way to force a more rhythmic pace in boss fights to prevent the current strategy of "just blitz the boss as quickly as possible so we don't have to worry about mechanics". It honestly takes the fun out of doing pledges and dailies and make them feel more like a chore.

Pledges were fun about 2 years ago when you were first doing them. Doing the same dungeons every day (or somewhere close to everyday) for a long time will become a chore anyway. I mean I remember 90% of every NPCs lines in every dungeon.

GoldenLight · October 2018

Most of the time I run the dungeons for fun and also for Undaunted daily but have been doing them solo (Mostly normal but sometimes veteran). If I see someone sending out a request for a run; I will invite them and do them 2 manned and try to have a fun time.

I have tried to not take the game too seriously and just enjoy new content when it comes out. No game is perfect but have really enjoyed this game (even with all the changes) from the old closed beta days.

Many of the players I take with me are new players and I am happy to let them do the quests. It is good to give new players a great experience as they are likely to stay. Almost every one that I have taken on a run with me have added me as a friend and contact me when help is needed on other runs.

qbit · October 2018

What you describe is why I seldom do group content. So there are some amazing players I’ve grouped with. That’s mostly my experience actually. But the one time of toxic cesspool *** makes you never want to risk encountering it again. It sucks. It’s my own personal hang ups. I’m afraid of being vote kicked. I could just as easily not take my 60% DPS to the next fight and not sprint and let the tank and healer die. Depends on how much I’ve drank at the moment how .. confrontational .. I’ll be. I do sometimes do this when someone is an obvious new player and trying to do the quest. I will hang back so the speed runner feels a little embarrassed hopefully. And probably say as much in group chat. I’m playing for fun and am not farming. I’m not in a rush.

That said, I’ve relatively recently realized the tanks sometime appear to be rush ahead because they’re confident their DPS group members can burn large groups of mobs. They were trying to coral all the adds at once. So while I thought they were being disrespectful they were just being efficient. Which is my fault for not realizing that.

Ogou · October 2018

goldenflameslinger wrote: »

I think most players have done the content so many times, they aren’t interested in hearing the Spindleclutch story for the 11,000th time. You can’t blame them for not wanting to do the quest.

And there are newer players who haven't got the chance to experience those contents yet. You can't blame them for wanting to do the quest. At the end of the day people just need to remember that there are other people in their group who might want to run things in a different way.

qbit · October 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

OP so you still need a hour-long RP walking in fingal grotto at your *800 cp (1298, in fact)* ?

You’re using hyperbol to downplay his very valid post. It’s a fallacy and now you can’t be taken seriously.

Royaji · October 2018

Ogou wrote: »

goldenflameslinger wrote: »

I think most players have done the content so many times, they aren’t interested in hearing the Spindleclutch story for the 11,000th time. You can’t blame them for not wanting to do the quest.

And there are newer players who haven't got the chance to experience those contents yet. You can't blame them for wanting to do the quest. At the end of the day people just need to remember that there are other people in their group who might want to run things in a different way.

Just remember that it goes both ways.

Marcusito · October 2018

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Dear diary....

Is that you Jim?

Cryptical · October 2018

About doing the quest...

You can be grouped as you finish the final segment of the summerset assault on nocturnal.

I never got to hear any of the dialogue. When one person walks through a door it pulls the other person too regardless of where they are - the ultimate carry. When the gate comes down and traps you on the wrong side of it, you’ll get pulled when the other person uses the door.

I wish I had abandoned the quest so I could go do it again and maybe have an idea what was happening. Darien’s death flew by, dialogue skipped and events advanced too fast to even read the captions. The other person did something with dawnbringer as soon as the prompt appeared, I never saw what it said.

I put in a ticket about it, hoping that it could be reversed by one step so I could enjoy the content. Valsirenn has the quest arrow over the head of her ghostly projection. I have ignored her talking about it every time I go to Alinor, refusing to do any more of that so it might be easy to back that quest line up for me. No response from zeni. They don’t care.

Kilnerdyne · October 2018

This has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with which celestial body you're currently populating.

Welcome to Earth.

Shawn_PT · October 2018

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Shawn_PT wrote: »

I had some of this just last night. I'm leveling up a character that I made for the 10 Million stories event and didn't much bother touching since then. She's running with random drop items. She's a healer. She has low DPS. She's lvl 40 or so.

She needs some undaunted for the necrotic orbs. Queued late at night for random normal, no vet at lvl 40.

Blackheart pops up. Cool, I see the quest indicator, one more skill point for me. Except that everyone jumps into the water to skip ahead, someone even cast Rapids. I commented 'guess we're not doing the quest then.' No answer. I should have asked them to kick me or something but whatever. It's still some undaunted experience. I could have tried to stay back and get the quest NPC but it would probably mean that by the time I had killed the surrounding mobs, the group would be on the third boss.

Rushing forward, I tossed some heals but they were totally unnecessary, which brings us to another problem where healers are no longer wanted/needed but I digress.

Instead of healing I spent the entire dungeon running after the group, trying to get a hit on the bosses before they died. One of the fellows, possibly the tank, commented halfway that we were so far from the boss we didn't even get loot. Because mister selfish rushpants kept going on rapids, leaving the trash behind to hinder the rest of the group, and just mowing down the bosses.

It was a lame run. It was not fun for the rusher, it was no fun for the ones running behind. If you're so uber OP you can wipe the dungeon solo in 5 minutes, why use the finder? Solo it, get it done your way, get all the loot you want, and don't be a ***. I don't get it. I really don't.

Don't be that guy. It's the first step towards making ESO's community better as a whole.

Why you and tank can’t swim together with those fast dps and get all rewards for free? rapids are casted on group btw..
Also what’s the problem to equip rapid maneurs too?
Yes that guy who left mobs behind is bad, but it’s current reality, you either adapt to it, or suffer.
I’m leveling up tank now (32 lvl now) when i got in group with cp810, i try to keep up with them and usually can even taunt boss a little

I did. I got the rewards for free. But. I lost the skulls we couldn't run fast enough to get and I lost the skill point from the quest. It was a run, but it was definitely not a pleasant run. When a player steps into what is GROUP content, with people of varied interests, levels, and aims, the very least they should do is be considerate to the rest of the group.

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

Shawn_PT wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Shawn_PT wrote: »

I had some of this just last night. I'm leveling up a character that I made for the 10 Million stories event and didn't much bother touching since then. She's running with random drop items. She's a healer. She has low DPS. She's lvl 40 or so.

She needs some undaunted for the necrotic orbs. Queued late at night for random normal, no vet at lvl 40.

Blackheart pops up. Cool, I see the quest indicator, one more skill point for me. Except that everyone jumps into the water to skip ahead, someone even cast Rapids. I commented 'guess we're not doing the quest then.' No answer. I should have asked them to kick me or something but whatever. It's still some undaunted experience. I could have tried to stay back and get the quest NPC but it would probably mean that by the time I had killed the surrounding mobs, the group would be on the third boss.

Rushing forward, I tossed some heals but they were totally unnecessary, which brings us to another problem where healers are no longer wanted/needed but I digress.

Instead of healing I spent the entire dungeon running after the group, trying to get a hit on the bosses before they died. One of the fellows, possibly the tank, commented halfway that we were so far from the boss we didn't even get loot. Because mister selfish rushpants kept going on rapids, leaving the trash behind to hinder the rest of the group, and just mowing down the bosses.

It was a lame run. It was not fun for the rusher, it was no fun for the ones running behind. If you're so uber OP you can wipe the dungeon solo in 5 minutes, why use the finder? Solo it, get it done your way, get all the loot you want, and don't be a ***. I don't get it. I really don't.

Don't be that guy. It's the first step towards making ESO's community better as a whole.

Why you and tank can’t swim together with those fast dps and get all rewards for free? rapids are casted on group btw..
Also what’s the problem to equip rapid maneurs too?
Yes that guy who left mobs behind is bad, but it’s current reality, you either adapt to it, or suffer.
I’m leveling up tank now (32 lvl now) when i got in group with cp810, i try to keep up with them and usually can even taunt boss a little

I did. I got the rewards for free. But. I lost the skulls we couldn't run fast enough to get and I lost the skill point from the quest. It was a run, but it was definitely not a pleasant run. When a player steps into what is GROUP content, with people of varied interests, levels, and aims, the very least they should do is be considerate to the rest of the group.

Then simply run it again, Blackheart haven is such a pleasant dungeon, i run it 50 times while farming bone pirate gear and there were all different type of groups, from very weak to facerolling dps, but i don't remember any situation where i don't get boss rewards (I farm as tank of course).

As for the bad guy.. yeah, there are different kind of people, there are some who doesn't care about teammates and even find pleasure in running forward leaving tank and healer to deal with mobs and writes that he can solo dungeon etc.. i just pity them, no healthy person will do things like that.

LiquidPony · October 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

goldenflameslinger wrote: »

I think most players have done the content so many times, they aren’t interested in hearing the Spindleclutch story for the 11,000th time. You can’t blame them for not wanting to do the quest.

And there are newer players who haven't got the chance to experience those contents yet. You can't blame them for wanting to do the quest. At the end of the day people just need to remember that there are other people in their group who might want to run things in a different way.

Just remember that it goes both ways.

Great point, and one that always gets overlooked. There's always people complaining, here and on Reddit and everywhere else, about those dastardly players who just want to "sprint through the dungeon," but that perspective is worth considering, too.

It's 2AM, I'm just here for my Random Daily bonus, I've run this dungeon 638 times, I've got an XP pot running, yadda yadda. If you're doing the quest, fine, no problem. Just say so and I'll wait. But I'm not going to stand around twiddling my thumbs while you search every crate and barrel in the dungeon and fiddle with your inventory every time you loot and stop to smell the roses and enjoy the scenery. Sorry.

Anyone who wants to run a dungeon in a specific way, be it fast or slow, should group up with like-minded people. In the group finder, the best you should hope for is a compromise. And really, in the Random Daily queue, I would lean towards the expectation that most people are there for the XP bonus and they just want to blast through it as quickly as possible.

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

goldenflameslinger wrote: »

I think most players have done the content so many times, they aren’t interested in hearing the Spindleclutch story for the 11,000th time. You can’t blame them for not wanting to do the quest.

And there are newer players who haven't got the chance to experience those contents yet. You can't blame them for wanting to do the quest. At the end of the day people just need to remember that there are other people in their group who might want to run things in a different way.

Just remember that it goes both ways.

Great point, and one that always gets overlooked. There's always people complaining, here and on Reddit and everywhere else, about those dastardly players who just want to "sprint through the dungeon," but that perspective is worth considering, too.

It's 2AM, I'm just here for my Random Daily bonus, I've run this dungeon 638 times, I've got an XP pot running, yadda yadda. If you're doing the quest, fine, no problem. Just say so and I'll wait. But I'm not going to stand around twiddling my thumbs while you search every crate and barrel in the dungeon and fiddle with your inventory every time you loot and stop to smell the roses and enjoy the scenery. Sorry.

Anyone who wants to run a dungeon in a specific way, be it fast or slow, should group up with like-minded people. In the group finder, the best you should hope for is a compromise. And really, in the Random Daily queue, I would lean towards the expectation that most people are there for the XP bonus and they just want to blast through it as quickly as possible.

++ just got tempest on my daily vet, i thought it will be 10 minutes faceroll, instead of that got two beginner dps (130cp and 170cp), 50 minutes, approx. 30 soul gems spend on resing those poor sods on final boss.. and all that time I spend resing them I was thinking about God and that I must be patient to our little ones, and now I just feel exhausted like somebody who made something wrong, probably I should tell them they shouldn't go vet and leave group so they stick to normals.. but no, they will run vet again hoping for another to carry them

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

freespirit wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Devs made a mistake when they allow multiplicative rise of dps instead of linear.. and so in PUG we may receive 5k dps and 50k dps.. no way they can balance this.. and so with "average" 20-25k per dps we have faceroll vet1, blackheaven, tempest etc.. reasonable vet2.. and dlc vets which are punishing if even one person from group doesn't use optimal build.

Compare survivability of top / beginner tank.. it will be 2-3 times max (in plain numbers), and in case of dps it will be 10 times. They just need to change formula.. so "overland" dps will make 10k and "top" dps 25k, that's all, no facerolls, tank and healer will be naturally mandatory and so on.

When you suddenly know it's time to go to bed...…..

You read a post and totally don't understand it

I mean that difference between tank anybody can create in 1 hour with tank gear and experienced tank is not so big in terms of max damage they can take, it's more about skill and knowledge what to do in which situation and how to sustain. Same with healer, experienced healer just should know what to do in each check and boss rotation and keep sustain.
Since there is no critical difference in healer/tank stats average and min-maxed, this allows to make balanced dungeons from side of tanking/healing, so experienced tank/healer may even sacrifice chunk of their role stats for buffing/debuffing of dps.

But if you take dps, somebody who will just take alcast beginner build and will cycle it without training will put out 10k dps max, but experienced dps with trial gear will put out 50k from same build, and average will put out 20-30k. So devs are forced to create even vet dungeons doable at 40-50k team dps and this allows group of top-dps throw out part of mechanics even in dlc vet and completely ignore them in others.. just nuke, nuke, nuke.

doc_ketamine · October 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

~Start of Rant~
I to watched all my old ESO friends quit the game. I still hung around because it was somewhat fun. But that and Mirkmire destruction of my jplaystyle. Has pushed me away from ESO for at least the near future. At least in GW2 it's fun to play Magical based characters. So there I am. A new 14 day old account and $300 dropped on said account. That could've went to ZOS instead. But they've gutted my fun, so for now I take my money elsewhere.
~End of Rant~

I'm checking out GW2 as well. I've spent around $1500 on ESO since March 2018 (the game, crowns) and am wary to spend on another game, but I'm also holding off spending my dollars on ESO while this mess goes on.

Leocaran · October 2018

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with which celestial body you're currently populating.
Welcome to Earth.

This has nothing to do with the celestial body you're currently populating and everything to do with creatures creating and playing this game. Welcome to humans. Earth is fine.
And by the way, I blame only the creators. They should have made more sensible mechanics to completely avoid that. Even just a possibility to redo quests (without or almost without rewards) solo or in a group would solve most problems.

Trinity_Is_My_Name · October 2018

jrgray93 wrote: »

I really have a hard time enjoying anything but solo content anymore. The gradual shift of the game's focus over the years has turned what started as a great community to your typical online gaming cesspool.

Everyone in the dungeon finder wants to pull the entire dungeon as fast as possible and burn through everything without pausing to take a breath. They usually don't even bother talking, and will ignore you if you do. Just now, I was put on the queue cooldown twice because I refused to group with two people in the queue who were behaving this way. The healer was barking orders and pulling everything. As soon as I left, both him and his friend started sending me hate tells, calling me all manner of names I'd get banned for repeating here, and telling me how terrible I am despite being over 800 cp (1298, in fact). I won't go into detail on just how "terrible" I am.

This isn't an isolated incident. It's a daily occurrence. This isn't a complaint about the monetization model, although that is a contributing factor. The game has turned into nothing more than a DPS race in every scenario. Nobody is interested in enjoying the gameplay. They just want to grind out to the next goal. There is no incentive to socialize. There is no incentive to play a real tank outside of trials. The best choice is almost always four DPS. Most dungeon queues have DPS pretending to be tanks just to get in faster. If I'm not playing with friends, my tank is relegated to sprinting behind the DPS to keep up. This isn't fun.

The problem is most of the aforementioned friends don't bother playing anymore for the very same reasons. I'm in several guilds, but people are hardly ever interested in helping me with the content I am trying to do because there is so much more to be gained from solo, 'me-first' content. There are too many daily obligations to keep up in ESO these days.

Honestly, the combat team has really let this game fall apart. It's just not fun anymore.

Yep. Agree 100%. This is exactly why I solo the Undaunted Pledges instead of grouping with children and hormone raging teens.

zaria · October 2018

Leocaran wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you want to linger and enjoy the NPC dialogue, a random group probably isnt the best choice either.

One huge problem with that: you can do a dungeon's quest only once. If you want to get the story you have one try. And as I understand if you select specific dungeon in GF you still get same random dungeon people with you.
Also you just can't demand people to fully level char without random dungeons, then start doing them solo for quests. Or that all people must find guilds to firstly run quests in dungeons and use GF only after all quests have been finished. That's absurd.

If you make alts you can do it multiple times, you can also drop quest to do it again, has done that on the newer dlc.
I just has two problems, one if other also has quest and just rush it, or if you come in late in dungeon, March of sacrifice I'm looking at you

Yes dropping quest and you don't get the skill point until you do dungeon again.

if rest of group run ahead they are welcome to clear trash, no I don't do this on new players as it confuses them and they feel pressed to run and help.