DPS DPS DPS DPS

Asardes · October 2018

Maybe people were in the dungeon to get the plunder/dremora skulls or some gear. And trust me, listening to the NPCs at the start of COA1 say: "ready, aim, fire" only to race trough the dungeon and find at the end an infused inferno staff of ... Sunderflame, about 100 times in a row, makes you less eager to just pace out and listen to the said NPC. All you wanna do is nuke everything as fast as you can, race to the usual chest spawn spots and then right to the boss and loot it. So you have to understand those people. If you're in a daedra/undead filled dungeon - and most of them are - pulling everything in one room and stacking it on the boss, and dropping Elemental Storm or some class specific AoE ult actually makes sense, since you get it refunded straight away

Jeremy · October 2018

Asardes wrote: »

Maybe people were in the dungeon to get the plunder/dremora skulls or some gear. And trust me, listening to the NPCs at the start of COA1 say: "ready, aim, fire" only to race trough the dungeon and find at the end an infused inferno staff of ... Sunderflame, about 100 times in a row, makes you less eager to just pace out and listen to the said NPC. All you wanna do is nuke everything as fast as you can, race to the usual chest spawn spots and then right to the boss and loot it. So you have to understand those people. If you're in a daedra/undead filled dungeon - and most of them are - pulling everything in one room and stacking it on the boss, and dropping Elemental Storm or some class specific AoE ult actually makes sense, since you get it refunded straight away

I can understand that.

But it's important to remember not everyone using the group finder is bored of the dungeon and in a hurry. A lot of us actually still do dungeons for fun and want to enjoy our time in there - not frantically chase after someone running through mobs just to get it over with as fast as possible.

Mannix1958 · October 2018

ccfeeling wrote: »

Sorry to say , but I really cant enjoy the dungeons I ran over 500 times

Rush and complete the daily quicky ... that's what I do ...

Really 500 times? You should run....outside and get fresh air!

John_Falstaff · October 2018

I see many responses from people who stress the fact they've ran contents five hundreds of times and are bored of it and don't want to spend a lot of time running it, so those who want to enjoy the quest should go with friends. So, I just thought I'd note that it works both ways - if someone ran a dungeon 500 hundred times, then by that point in the (social) game they probably have a guild or several where their friends are, so they can poke around for them and take their enjoyment from chatting with friends on discord voice for instance, while they're running the daily, as opposed to just silently trying to rip their way through unwanted piece of content as fast as possible. Don't make those minutes a chore for yourself. If you don't enjoy the story anymore - enjoy sharing moment with friends. And if you've been here 500 times and don't have friends... well, maybe should look into getting to know more people.

Joxer61 · October 2018

LadyLethalla wrote: »

I've been playing solo most of my game time for months, if not years. My issue is more my location (Australia) and not knowing anyone else in my region, since the two I did know disappeared. So I can't just "find a new guild" or "find new people to play with" because apparently they're all over on NA or else hiding.
And the shield nerfs means reducing already limited activities down even further.

I am with you and feel your pain. I don't get why Australia has to have net from 1980 dialup days!! Its sad. Im in Brissy and same applys, just no one on. I tend to run with some folks in the Uk and other than that its just a crap shoot. Im on PC/NA but might swap to EU if more players?

Joxer61 · October 2018

Jeremy wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

They only get away with that on easy dungeons - which is probably why so many of them run away like scaredy-cats when a DLC pops up.

To be fair, some of those DLC dungeons are just super long. I admit I regularly drop when I see one, but that's because I don't typically have 1-2 hours to spend on a single random dungeon, not because I'm scared of the content.

I was referring to DPS who masquerade as tanks. The reason they tend to drop from DLC dungeons is because they know the bosses will obliterate them.

Actual DPS players who drop from DLC dungeons aren't so bad, as they are usually easy enough to replace. Tanks not so much though.

But your point is taken. I was attempting to assuage the OP by sharing in his contempt for the dwindling of quality when it comes to game play in dungeons, which has become overly DPS-centric.

Yes, and its still a huge issue yet when you bring it up you are told to join a guild or get friends.....really? Just makes trying to learn a role (tanking) not worth it. I see people crying all the time about no tanks in the game yet if one tried to learn you cant because people are in such a frickin hurry its sad. How about those that are in ahury get a guild or friends..speed run your butts off? I get that the LFG/dungeon finder is going to be random but ZOS put roles on it for a reason. Have yet to see it form a group with 4 dps yet that's all anyone wants. Just wish people would relax...if you see a new tank either leave or be kind enough to maybe help or just go at their pace?

Lysette · October 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

I've been playing solo most of my game time for months, if not years. My issue is more my location (Australia) and not knowing anyone else in my region, since the two I did know disappeared. So I can't just "find a new guild" or "find new people to play with" because apparently they're all over on NA or else hiding.
And the shield nerfs means reducing already limited activities down even further.

I am with you and feel your pain. I don't get why Australia has to have net from 1980 dialup days!! Its sad. Im in Brissy and same applys, just no one on. I tend to run with some folks in the Uk and other than that its just a crap shoot. Im on PC/NA but might swap to EU if more players?

Ping will be a lot higher to germany though - Brisbane to US should be around 300-360ms - to europe you will have like 480.

CyrusAntivirus · October 2018

welcome to WOW...this is *** i could not take in wow and now i switch to eso to find out is same *** here? Mmos are so toxic these days.

mojomood · October 2018

jrgray93 wrote: »

I really have a hard time enjoying anything but solo content anymore. The gradual shift of the game's focus over the years has turned what started as a great community to your typical online gaming cesspool.

Everyone in the dungeon finder wants to pull the entire dungeon as fast as possible and burn through everything without pausing to take a breath. They usually don't even bother talking, and will ignore you if you do. Just now, I was put on the queue cooldown twice because I refused to group with two people in the queue who were behaving this way. The healer was barking orders and pulling everything. As soon as I left, both him and his friend started sending me hate tells, calling me all manner of names I'd get banned for repeating here, and telling me how terrible I am despite being over 800 cp (1298, in fact). I won't go into detail on just how "terrible" I am.

This isn't an isolated incident. It's a daily occurrence. This isn't a complaint about the monetization model, although that is a contributing factor. The game has turned into nothing more than a DPS race in every scenario. Nobody is interested in enjoying the gameplay. They just want to grind out to the next goal. There is no incentive to socialize. There is no incentive to play a real tank outside of trials. The best choice is almost always four DPS. Most dungeon queues have DPS pretending to be tanks just to get in faster. If I'm not playing with friends, my tank is relegated to sprinting behind the DPS to keep up. This isn't fun.

The problem is most of the aforementioned friends don't bother playing anymore for the very same reasons. I'm in several guilds, but people are hardly ever interested in helping me with the content I am trying to do because there is so much more to be gained from solo, 'me-first' content. There are too many daily obligations to keep up in ESO these days.

Honestly, the combat team has really let this game fall apart. It's just not fun anymore.

Join a casual guild and run with them.

Queue for Vet, you'll be needed there.

greylox · October 2018

Best thing I did was forget about running vet stuff. Also joining a casual guild of like minded people.

SonofThunder · October 2018

I only do PVP any more because, as someone who has been around since beta, the game is basically ruined.

When a new patch comes out, I'll go around and look at the new content for a day or so. Then it's back to PVP and that's only once or twice a week.

F2P ruined the community, in my opinion. So many game breaking changes have been made over the last year that the holdouts from the early days have steadily left the game. PVP is about to be done because of the catawroebel damage.

Derbforgaill · October 2018

I rarely ever do dungeons, and every time I try to get back in with randoms (either to get gear/keys, or to do the quest) I am sorry I tried.

Sometimes when I enter a dungeon and say it's the first time I'm doing it, I get kicked right away. Most times though, they kick me once they see me talking to the NPCs, as if thinking: "How dare this person actually listen to the NPC's dialogue and delay us?". Most of the times, I stop doing dungeons until I can get three friends online from my guild who are willing to wait for me as I listen to the NPCs and do the quests. Other times, people just "carry" me through the dungeons, unwilling to wait (which causes the NPCs to disappear as objectives are met) but also unwilling to kick me, so I just ran behind them, finding most things killed and me playing basically no part in the dungeon. Which is why I typically just leave and wait until I can get people to take my time with...

However, when I started the game a couple of years ago I didn't want to inconvenience people, and as a result, I have no idea what the base game dungeons are about, as i was just rushed through them with people who cared nothing except for the final loot & key.

I don't know whether this is a result of anything ZOS has done, in this "DPS race" or whether it's the playerbase, but it sucks

goldenflameslinger · October 2018

I think most players have done the content so many times, they aren’t interested in hearing the Spindleclutch story for the 11,000th time. You can’t blame them for not wanting to do the quest.

Knootewoot · October 2018

And that is why i do most dungeons on normal solo during these events. Except if it's with my guild as they are the coolest dungeon crawlers.

Tyrion87 · October 2018

I totally agree with you and have the same observations and conclusions. The game was not like that 2-3 years ago. The guilds didn't have such irrational and - most importantly - unnecessary requirements to join them. Back then the requirements were to beat the content. Now the requirements are to beat it as fast as possible while skipping most of the mechanics. That is why the dps requirements are so ridiculously high nowdays. The guilds expect you to pull 50k+ while this kind of dps is nowhere near necessary to get something done with ease. You can do the hardest content in this game, all HMs and speedruns etc., with much lower dps - yet it will be considered too low for others to team up with you. When I look at the guild announcements it feels more like a job than a game. Players are "testing" the capabilities of others in many ways before calling them a "teammate". People went crazy over "testing things" madly on the dummies after they were introduced to the game. Right now all this seriousness just sucks the fun and enjoyment out of the game. I really miss the old days... and still hope that the devs will somehow "intervene" to prevent the game to continue taking this toxic route.

WildRaptorX · October 2018

I asked some people to wait for me whilst I hand in the quest for Volenfell. All left.

CruelCult · October 2018

jrgray93 wrote: »

It's just not fun anymore.

Thank you. Goodbye.

Joxer61 · October 2018

goldenflameslinger wrote: »

I think most players have done the content so many times, they aren’t interested in hearing the Spindleclutch story for the 11,000th time. You can’t blame them for not wanting to do the quest.

Then whats the fix? Those of us new/learning/etc. cant be expected to be held hostage just as you say your kind aren't to be held up by us. So, whats the next move? We can *** and cry to no end but something needs to change.

Stefacle · October 2018

I tried to do a dungeon yesterday with my stamblade as dps. Never managed to get a group, and just went back to solo play. Guess that char will be solo only, and I will do dungeons on my tank once he's leveled some more.

Royaji · October 2018

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I totally agree with you and have the same observations and conclusions. The game was not like that 2-3 years ago. The guilds didn't have such irrational and - most importantly - unnecessary requirements to join them. Back then the requirements were to beat the content. Now the requirements are to beat it as fast as possible while skipping most of the mechanics. That is why the dps requirements are so ridiculously high nowdays. The guilds expect you to pull 50k+ while this kind of dps is nowhere near necessary to get something done with ease. You can do the hardest content in this game, all HMs and speedruns etc., with much lower dps - yet it will be considered too low for others to team up with you. When I look at the guild announcements it feels more like a job than a game. Players are "testing" the capabilities of others in many ways before calling them a "teammate". People went crazy over "testing things" madly on the dummies after they were introduced to the game. Right now all this seriousness just sucks the fun and enjoyment out of the game. I really miss the old days... and still hope that the devs will somehow "intervene" to prevent the game to continue taking this toxic route.

Those guilds have such requirments because this is how they want to play. And there is nothing wrong with that. You will not be invited to MU just because playing soccer on a weekend is fun for you. Some people don't like spending 1 hour in FG1 and prefer perfomance based gaming. It's fun for them! They don't go in dungeon to "have fun during the run". They go in to get a good clear and have fun that way. You might think differently and you are free to not join such guilds. But same way they have no obligation to carry you.

Rungar · October 2018

dps has become completely unbalanced and thus everyone is or is trying to be dps.

a specced tank does maybe 5kdps, a specced healer maybe 10k dps and someone who knows how to dps in this game its 50k? 10 times the tank and 5 times the healer.

the Light attack weaving system has alot to do with it but no one can seem to come to terms with it.

the dynamic should look like this

tank 10k
healer 15k
dps 30k

a 3:2:1 ratio for properly specced roles. Is light attack weaving really worth waiting 30-60 minutes in the group finder.

simple fixes here

1) link 1h&shield to health not stam. Thatll easily balance tanks at 10k.
2) add in dps cost reductions for healers when they cast a heal spell. "your next dps spell x costs x less after a crit heal to a fellow group member who is not you". 15K easy balance
3) get rid of the light attack weave and make it a free spammable on the GCD. Got your 30k right there.

or enjoy your wait for a fake role of your choice.

Jimmy · October 2018

@OP: This is where friends come in handy. This is an MMO afterall. Eventually you'll get your next single player Elder Scrolls game.

Royaji · October 2018

Rungar wrote: »

dps has become completely unbalanced and thus everyone is or is trying to be dps.

a specced tank does maybe 5kdps, a specced healer maybe 10k dps and someone who knows how to dps in this game its 50k? 10 times the tank and 5 times the healer.

the Light attack weaving system has alot to do with it but no one can seem to come to terms with it.

the dynamic should look like this

tank 10k
healer 15k
dps 30k

a 3:2:1 ratio for properly specced roles. Is light attack weaving really worth waiting 30-60 minutes in the group finder.

simple fixes here

1) link 1h&shield to health not stam. Thatll easily balance tanks at 10k.
2) add in dps cost reductions for healers when they cast a heal spell. "your next dps spell x costs x less after a crit heal to a fellow group member who is not you". 15K easy balance
3) get rid of the light attack weave and make it a free spammable on the GCD. Got your 30k right there.

or enjoy your wait for a fake role of your choice.

You are waiting for fake roles because average DPS in a pug is too low. There are enough healers and quite a bit of tanks in the game. They just don't queue in GF because noone wants to carry a "fake-DD". And getting a group in a guild is much easier for them.

Kolache · October 2018

I'd agree that there is too much focus on DPS these days. ESO's "flexible" character building options combined with CPs have just lead to horrible power creep. It might not be so bad if it was associated with only new content, IE more power for higher levels in new zones, etc... but when it's applied to legacy content (what you're most likely to get in the dungeon finder queue), everything becomes trivial and the only "challenge" is how fast you can finish it... or you could look at it like how little time you have to spend in content if you don't like it.

Your story makes me feel lucky with the PUGs I've gotten though (and I've PUGged a LOT of dungeons). I'd say I've had as many remarkably helpful people as I have remarkably horrible people. As in people were just as likely to patiently walk newcomers through every aspect of every fight as they were to be a complete ***. More often than not my groups say little/nothing at all. Fast, slow, whatever, just walk through the content without a word. That's my average experience, except for vet DLC pugs where it's a crapshoot if people are capable/willing of completing that content.

Rungar · October 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

dps has become completely unbalanced and thus everyone is or is trying to be dps.

a specced tank does maybe 5kdps, a specced healer maybe 10k dps and someone who knows how to dps in this game its 50k? 10 times the tank and 5 times the healer.

the Light attack weaving system has alot to do with it but no one can seem to come to terms with it.

the dynamic should look like this

tank 10k
healer 15k
dps 30k

a 3:2:1 ratio for properly specced roles. Is light attack weaving really worth waiting 30-60 minutes in the group finder.

simple fixes here

1) link 1h&shield to health not stam. Thatll easily balance tanks at 10k.
2) add in dps cost reductions for healers when they cast a heal spell. "your next dps spell x costs x less after a crit heal to a fellow group member who is not you". 15K easy balance
3) get rid of the light attack weave and make it a free spammable on the GCD. Got your 30k right there.

or enjoy your wait for a fake role of your choice.

You are waiting for fake roles because average DPS in a pug is too low. There are enough healers and quite a bit of tanks in the game. They just don't queue in GF because noone wants to carry a "fake-DD". And getting a group in a guild is much easier for them.

your excuse addresses nothing. Are you saying people shouldnt use the groupfinder?

Tyrion87 · October 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I totally agree with you and have the same observations and conclusions. The game was not like that 2-3 years ago. The guilds didn't have such irrational and - most importantly - unnecessary requirements to join them. Back then the requirements were to beat the content. Now the requirements are to beat it as fast as possible while skipping most of the mechanics. That is why the dps requirements are so ridiculously high nowdays. The guilds expect you to pull 50k+ while this kind of dps is nowhere near necessary to get something done with ease. You can do the hardest content in this game, all HMs and speedruns etc., with much lower dps - yet it will be considered too low for others to team up with you. When I look at the guild announcements it feels more like a job than a game. Players are "testing" the capabilities of others in many ways before calling them a "teammate". People went crazy over "testing things" madly on the dummies after they were introduced to the game. Right now all this seriousness just sucks the fun and enjoyment out of the game. I really miss the old days... and still hope that the devs will somehow "intervene" to prevent the game to continue taking this toxic route.

Those guilds have such requirments because this is how they want to play. And there is nothing wrong with that. You will not be invited to MU just because playing soccer on a weekend is fun for you. Some people don't like spending 1 hour in FG1 and prefer perfomance based gaming. It's fun for them! They don't go in dungeon to "have fun during the run". They go in to get a good clear and have fun that way. You might think differently and you are free to not join such guilds. But same way they have no obligation to carry you.

And why you imply they would have to "carry" me or that I would fall behind? I didn't write about my dps but about how the majority of end-game guilds look like nowdays compared to what it was in the past. I also enjoy smooth runs and have no problems with clearing HMs in this game but you can achieve that even without these absurd numbers.

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

They only get away with that on easy dungeons - which is probably why so many of them run away like scaredy-cats when a DLC pops up.

To be fair, some of those DLC dungeons are just super long. I admit I regularly drop when I see one, but that's because I don't typically have 1-2 hours to spend on a single random dungeon, not because I'm scared of the content.

I was referring to DPS who masquerade as tanks. The reason they tend to drop from DLC dungeons is because they know the bosses will obliterate them.

Actual DPS players who drop from DLC dungeons aren't so bad, as they are usually easy enough to replace. Tanks not so much though.

But your point is taken. I was attempting to assuage the OP by sharing in his contempt for the dwindling of quality when it comes to game play in dungeons, which has become overly DPS-centric.

Yes, and its still a huge issue yet when you bring it up you are told to join a guild or get friends.....really? Just makes trying to learn a role (tanking) not worth it. I see people crying all the time about no tanks in the game yet if one tried to learn you cant because people are in such a frickin hurry its sad. How about those that are in ahury get a guild or friends..speed run your butts off? I get that the LFG/dungeon finder is going to be random but ZOS put roles on it for a reason. Have yet to see it form a group with 4 dps yet that's all anyone wants. Just wish people would relax...if you see a new tank either leave or be kind enough to maybe help or just go at their pace?

Ton of people run daily randoms and it’s approximately equal chance to get weak, normal or fast dps group. You will learn tanking in normal group and you will learn to value fast dps when you get to weak group where no matter how you tank, dps can’t kill mobs faster then they spawn.

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

Stefacle wrote: »

I tried to do a dungeon yesterday with my stamblade as dps. Never managed to get a group, and just went back to solo play. Guess that char will be solo only, and I will do dungeons on my tank once he's leveled some more.

In the event evening finder is overloaded, it took 15 mins to queue as tank yesterday during peak period.

Royaji · October 2018

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I totally agree with you and have the same observations and conclusions. The game was not like that 2-3 years ago. The guilds didn't have such irrational and - most importantly - unnecessary requirements to join them. Back then the requirements were to beat the content. Now the requirements are to beat it as fast as possible while skipping most of the mechanics. That is why the dps requirements are so ridiculously high nowdays. The guilds expect you to pull 50k+ while this kind of dps is nowhere near necessary to get something done with ease. You can do the hardest content in this game, all HMs and speedruns etc., with much lower dps - yet it will be considered too low for others to team up with you. When I look at the guild announcements it feels more like a job than a game. Players are "testing" the capabilities of others in many ways before calling them a "teammate". People went crazy over "testing things" madly on the dummies after they were introduced to the game. Right now all this seriousness just sucks the fun and enjoyment out of the game. I really miss the old days... and still hope that the devs will somehow "intervene" to prevent the game to continue taking this toxic route.

Those guilds have such requirments because this is how they want to play. And there is nothing wrong with that. You will not be invited to MU just because playing soccer on a weekend is fun for you. Some people don't like spending 1 hour in FG1 and prefer perfomance based gaming. It's fun for them! They don't go in dungeon to "have fun during the run". They go in to get a good clear and have fun that way. You might think differently and you are free to not join such guilds. But same way they have no obligation to carry you.

And why you imply they would have to "carry" me or that I would fall behind? I didn't write about my dps but about how the majority of end-game guilds look like nowdays compared to what it was in the past. I also enjoy smooth runs and have no problems with clearing HMs in this game but you can achieve that even without these absurd numbers.

Because they pull those, as you say, "absurd numbers". End-game kinda implies perfomance based approach. There are dozens of social guilds on every server. They are a lot more populated than end game guilds. Those guys care about having a good time and usually have little to no requirments.

Also why do you think those high-end players flock together to create their own guilds with strict requirments? Because they do not want to be in a casual guild. If you want to keep high-end, perfomance focused players in your guild you really have to put some requirments in. Otherwise those high-end players will leave because they are unable to find a good group in your guild.

You really can't blame someone because they want to run with 40-50k DPS DDs. That's how they like it. Leave them be and find a more suiting guild.

Rungar · October 2018

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Stefacle wrote: »

I tried to do a dungeon yesterday with my stamblade as dps. Never managed to get a group, and just went back to solo play. Guess that char will be solo only, and I will do dungeons on my tank once he's leveled some more.

In the event evening finder is overloaded, it took 15 mins to queue as tank yesterday during peak period.

you might have been bugged because i ran them as tank yesterday and it was business as usual. Less than a minute for sure.

people shouldnt be waiting for time on end because they will stop playing. Something needs to be done. Not everyone is going to roll a tank or should be expected to.