Linaleah wrote: »

you all people who are "lookinbg for challenge" youre main goal is litteraly to take that challenge and figure out how to make it easy for yourself again, and start the cycle of "too easy" complaints all over again, meanwhile the rest of the population - is left in a dust.

This is the heart of the problem, I think: when I started playing overland was not easy, not super hard either, but I died more than once because I was easily overwhelmed when fighting groups or single stronger enemies. Now My main is in the middle forties and a couple of chars in the lower thirties (so no CP) and recently I started a new toon for Summerset: using only what the char itself found (I decon pretty much everything) the overland questing has been very easy from the start (char is now level 13), even with no skill, just because I knew when to dodge, block or bash and when to use potions and food.

With level scaling as it is player's skills make the difference between easy and hard, so overland mobs and quest bosses are bound to be a walk in the park for experienced players.

Cause craglorn was popular till the more easier zone came along and became dead....

If you want harder content, limit yourself.

Use no cp.
No drink/food buff.
Use no sets. Only regular white gear with no glyphs.
Limit how many skill points you use, say 40.

I wonder how long people would last if they did this and how long it would be before they go back to their OP self or change the conditions I stated above to make it a little easier for you.

This is a MMO and I do not see how they can make the content harder for you and not the next person at the same time if you are playing in the same environment.

Where's the "Other" option?

1. Cadwells gold was fun on my first toon ... but when Im hunting skillpoints on alts I want to rampage!!
2. If you want a challenge / want to enjoy a new dlc: make a new toon or run nekid and frighten some townspeople
3. As some have said previously - they will probably just nerf us to make the content more tedious. If they can add an interesting option, I would be for it, but if not then meh

Normally I just lurk here but exactly to keep an eye on these threads in the hope that they add some form of vet option for over world.

It is safe to say "different folks different strokes". Players have different reasons for playing games, as demonstrated in a research by Nicole Lazzaro named : " Why We Play Games" , source

There is 'Hard Fun' and 'Easy Fun', needless to say some player enjoy one or the other. And there is nothing wrong with being on one or the other side, we all have different preferences.

The problem is, as others mentioned is that questing and the over world are a huge bulk of the content. And while there are dungeons and trials this is only a small fraction of the content. And running that small percentage of content ad nauseam isn't really fun.
The Problem is while frustration is definitely a factor for players to abandon a game, but so is boredom.
Don't forget the flow theory .

The other fun thing is that frustration can actually lead to heightened immersion and a better emotional engagement : Source. Now it is important though that the research paper does make a distinction between negative and positive frustration. Nonetheless it is a important factor that might significantly increase player enjoyment in a game.

with questing and overworld content being a large portion of the game and being faceroll easy, it completely ruins the appeal for the hard fun players. I want to feel like I am on and adventure when questing in the overworld, not a guided tour experience where every enemy dies the moment I look at them. And questing with friends makes the content even more trivial.

Abd taking off gear is not an option while it will probably increase the diffiuclty, you will be throwing away a core pillar of an RPG : Character development/progression. Since most of the power mainly comes through CP and gear you will be throwing that all away in the garbage. I am just going to leave this quote here :

" Continuously providing opportunities for the player’s characters to grow
and develop throughout the role-playing experience is absolutely critical. If a
game cannot offer meaningful character advancement perceptible either
through the story or through the character’s statistics, a title cannot rightfully
be considered a role-playing game."

Source : Hallford, N., Hallford, J., & LaMothe, A. (2001). Swords and circuitry: A designer's guide to computer role-playing games. Premier Press, Incorporated.

I don't really care about extra rewards, if some players feel like the extra rewards are unfair for some reason; fine no extra rewards I don't care. Hell if given the option I would choose to make epic and legendary gear more rare, but hey I am that weirdo that players Skyrim with a 4 times less loot mod. Anyway like I said many times just give me a vet option and I am coming back with friends. It might even make ESO an unique beast in the MMO market. An mmo that provides questing for both hardcore and casuals alike? where have you ever seen that?

in closing I want to refer to a quote from Gamasutra by John Harris, while it does not hold for all player types, I think the 'Hard Fun' players have definitely encountered this issue frequently :
" However, it's reached the point where "adventuring" in an RPG rarely feels risky. Gaining experience is supposed to carry the risk of harm and failure. Without that risk, gaining power becomes a foregone conclusion.

It has reached the point where the mere act of spending time playing the game appears to give players the right to have their characters become more powerful. The obstacles that provide experience become simply an arbitrary wall to scale before more power is granted; this, in a nutshell, is the type of play that has brought us grind, where the journey is simple and boring and the destination is something to be raced to."

Sadetius wrote: »

Normally I just lurk here but exactly to keep an eye on these threads in the hope that they add some form of vet option for over world.

It is safe to say "different folks different strokes". Players have different reasons for playing games, as demonstrated in a research by Nicole Lazzaro named : " Why We Play Games" , source

There is 'Hard Fun' and 'Easy Fun', needless to say some player enjoy one or the other. And there is nothing wrong with being on one or the other side, we all have different preferences.

The problem is, as others mentioned is that questing and the over world are a huge bulk of the content. And while there are dungeons and trials this is only a small fraction of the content. And running that small percentage of content ad nauseam isn't really fun.
The Problem is while frustration is definitely a factor for players to abandon a game, but so is boredom.
Don't forget the flow theory .

The other fun thing is that frustration can actually lead to heightened immersion and a better emotional engagement : Source. Now it is important though that the research paper does make a distinction between negative and positive frustration. Nonetheless it is a important factor that might significantly increase player enjoyment in a game.

with questing and overworld content being a large portion of the game and being faceroll easy, it completely ruins the appeal for the hard fun players. I want to feel like I am on and adventure when questing in the overworld, not a guided tour experience where every enemy dies the moment I look at them. And questing with friends makes the content even more trivial.

Abd taking off gear is not an option while it will probably increase the diffiuclty, you will be throwing away a core pillar of an RPG : Character development/progression. Since most of the power mainly comes through CP and gear you will be throwing that all away in the garbage. I am just going to leave this quote here :

" Continuously providing opportunities for the player’s characters to grow
and develop throughout the role-playing experience is absolutely critical. If a
game cannot offer meaningful character advancement perceptible either
through the story or through the character’s statistics, a title cannot rightfully
be considered a role-playing game."

Source : Hallford, N., Hallford, J., & LaMothe, A. (2001). Swords and circuitry: A designer's guide to computer role-playing games. Premier Press, Incorporated.

I don't really care about extra rewards, if some players feel like the extra rewards are unfair for some reason; fine no extra rewards I don't care. Hell if given the option I would choose to make epic and legendary gear more rare, but hey I am that weirdo that players Skyrim with a 4 times less loot mod. Anyway like I said many times just give me a vet option and I am coming back with friends. It might even make ESO an unique beast in the MMO market. An mmo that provides questing for both hardcore and casuals alike? where have you ever seen that?

in closing I want to refer to a quote from Gamasutra by John Harris, while it does not hold for all player types, I think the 'Hard Fun' players have definitely encountered this issue frequently :
" However, it's reached the point where "adventuring" in an RPG rarely feels risky. Gaining experience is supposed to carry the risk of harm and failure. Without that risk, gaining power becomes a foregone conclusion.

It has reached the point where the mere act of spending time playing the game appears to give players the right to have their characters become more powerful. The obstacles that provide experience become simply an arbitrary wall to scale before more power is granted; this, in a nutshell, is the type of play that has brought us grind, where the journey is simple and boring and the destination is something to be raced to."

The basic problem is that 'hard fun' players are usually very vocal on the forum, but they are a minority in-game. So it's simply not worth it to make exclusive content for the hardcore players...

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Sadetius wrote: »

Normally I just lurk here but exactly to keep an eye on these threads in the hope that they add some form of vet option for over world.

It is safe to say "different folks different strokes". Players have different reasons for playing games, as demonstrated in a research by Nicole Lazzaro named : " Why We Play Games" , source

There is 'Hard Fun' and 'Easy Fun', needless to say some player enjoy one or the other. And there is nothing wrong with being on one or the other side, we all have different preferences.

The problem is, as others mentioned is that questing and the over world are a huge bulk of the content. And while there are dungeons and trials this is only a small fraction of the content. And running that small percentage of content ad nauseam isn't really fun.
The Problem is while frustration is definitely a factor for players to abandon a game, but so is boredom.
Don't forget the flow theory .

The other fun thing is that frustration can actually lead to heightened immersion and a better emotional engagement : Source. Now it is important though that the research paper does make a distinction between negative and positive frustration. Nonetheless it is a important factor that might significantly increase player enjoyment in a game.

with questing and overworld content being a large portion of the game and being faceroll easy, it completely ruins the appeal for the hard fun players. I want to feel like I am on and adventure when questing in the overworld, not a guided tour experience where every enemy dies the moment I look at them. And questing with friends makes the content even more trivial.

Abd taking off gear is not an option while it will probably increase the diffiuclty, you will be throwing away a core pillar of an RPG : Character development/progression. Since most of the power mainly comes through CP and gear you will be throwing that all away in the garbage. I am just going to leave this quote here :

" Continuously providing opportunities for the player’s characters to grow
and develop throughout the role-playing experience is absolutely critical. If a
game cannot offer meaningful character advancement perceptible either
through the story or through the character’s statistics, a title cannot rightfully
be considered a role-playing game."

Source : Hallford, N., Hallford, J., & LaMothe, A. (2001). Swords and circuitry: A designer's guide to computer role-playing games. Premier Press, Incorporated.

I don't really care about extra rewards, if some players feel like the extra rewards are unfair for some reason; fine no extra rewards I don't care. Hell if given the option I would choose to make epic and legendary gear more rare, but hey I am that weirdo that players Skyrim with a 4 times less loot mod. Anyway like I said many times just give me a vet option and I am coming back with friends. It might even make ESO an unique beast in the MMO market. An mmo that provides questing for both hardcore and casuals alike? where have you ever seen that?

in closing I want to refer to a quote from Gamasutra by John Harris, while it does not hold for all player types, I think the 'Hard Fun' players have definitely encountered this issue frequently :
" However, it's reached the point where "adventuring" in an RPG rarely feels risky. Gaining experience is supposed to carry the risk of harm and failure. Without that risk, gaining power becomes a foregone conclusion.

It has reached the point where the mere act of spending time playing the game appears to give players the right to have their characters become more powerful. The obstacles that provide experience become simply an arbitrary wall to scale before more power is granted; this, in a nutshell, is the type of play that has brought us grind, where the journey is simple and boring and the destination is something to be raced to."

The basic problem is that 'hard fun' players are usually very vocal on the forum, but they are a minority in-game. So it's simply not worth it to make exclusive content for the hardcore players...

Keep moving those goalposts but sure I'll bite.

Do you have numbers on that ? Every mmo forum has people asking for more difficulty for questing be it wow, bdo, NWN, etc. What I see is potiential acquisition

Then there is also the potential players eso might gain since it will be the only game which offers this option.

Additionally there is also a portion of players who left the game the game because of the easy openworld and never visted the forums.

A potential added USP to ESO, and the potential acquisition of new players merits at the absolute least, more research from ZOS regarding this subject.

But unfortunayely it seems that ESO will remain run of the mill mmo 9000 with a Elder Scrolls skin.

I WROTE THIS FOR A TOPIC, BUT HERE IS THE PREVIEW.



Dungeon Mode Toggle (Normal/Veteran)

Delves and Public Dungeons (are... Dungeons and) can also be challenging content. Before you enter the Delve or Public Dungeon, you choose to face Normal or Veteran enemies.

I need to list some important points!

• Delves and Public Dungeons must be included in Dungeon Mode Toggle.
• Veteran Delves and Public Dungeons would be better than Group Delves or Group Quest Hubs.
• No need to be in a group to find other players in Veteran Delves and Public Dungeons!
• Current Public Dungeons are Normal Public Dungeons.
• Veteran Delves and Public Dungeons are for those well equipped and high CP.
• Veteran difficulty is based on an even more challenging Craglorn. That is, Veteran Delves is as challenging as Group Delves. Veteran Public Dungeons is as challenging as Skyreach, Spellscar, Shada's Tear, The Seeker's Archive and Rahni'Za. If we can find other players, I suggest adding a "CP Modifier" to monsters and bosses, making content even more challenging (see below).
• XP and Gold earned in Veteran Delves and Public Dungeons are the same as the Normal version! That is, XP and Gold are not the real rewards.
• Add daily quests to Public Dungeons.
• Daily Quests: blue reward for Normal and purple for Veteran.
• Based on everything I've presented above, redo Craglorn. Group Delves are now Delves, and Group Quest Hubs (Skyreach, Spellscar, Shada's Tear, The Seeker's Archive, Rahni'Za etc) are now Public Dungeons. Dungeon Mode Toggle is active for these contents.

CP Modifier

Gina's words CP for Common Monsters CP for Bosses

The suggestion below is optional!

Public Dungeons

We have 2 Public Dungeons per Chapter and 0 Public Dungeons per Zone DLC, right? This is my suggestion:

• 6 Public Dungeons per Chapter.
• 2 Public Dungeons per Zone DLC.

Again, I need to list some important points!

• Public Dungeons will be more important.
• Public Dungeon will also be Quest Hubs. Each Public Dungeon would be unique, with its own Daily Quests. Daily Quests could be creative and fun, with good and exclusive rewards.
• Some Public Dungeons can be "Public Trials", with Daily Quests rewarding Trial sets! Why not?
• Again, 6 Public Dungeons per Chapter and 2 Public Dungeons per Zone DLC. Public Dungeons are more interesting than Areas of Interest, ZOS!

Finally, I end up saying that I want more importance and protagonism for Delves and Public Dungeons!

Shraar wrote: »

I think the people suggesting a debuff battlespirit for questing are being silly. Who would ever elect to be nerfed just to experience quest content, the true reward of which is the story?

No no, if you want a nerf, unequip your armor and craft a low level weapon. Or just light attack. I have no idea why you'd want to progress through the tension less action slower but if you do, that's your choice, not anyone else's responsibility!

Suggesting that there be a reward to it, however small, is also a terrible idea! That way new players are penalized for questing without the reward. Questing is there to show the world, teach new players the ropes, and most importantly enjoy story. If you want difficult content, do dungeons, trials, veteran dungeons, or pvp!

[Edited for rude and insulting commentary]

Debuffing is not going to work.Nor is removing cp and armor.Make a damn vet instance already.I should not be able to go outside and smoke a cigarette in an area where there are mobs,(not to mention with the intent on killing myself for quick transport.)and come back still alive.

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Quest naked, with no jewelry and weapons with no enchantments/bonuses. It will be more challenging.

Enough of this stupid idea.

Enough with these stupid threads. Fixed.

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Shraar wrote: »

I think the people suggesting a debuff battlespirit for questing are being silly. Who would ever elect to be nerfed just to experience quest content, the true reward of which is the story?

No no, if you want a nerf, unequip your armor and craft a low level weapon. Or just light attack. I have no idea why you'd want to progress through the tension less action slower but if you do, that's your choice, not anyone else's responsibility!

Suggesting that there be a reward to it, however small, is also a terrible idea! That way new players are penalized for questing without the reward. Questing is there to show the world, teach new players the ropes, and most importantly enjoy story. If you want difficult content, do dungeons, trials, veteran dungeons, or pvp!

[Edited for rude and insulting commentary]

Debuffing is not going to work.Nor is removing cp and armor.Make a damn vet instance already.I should not be able to go outside and smoke a cigarette in an area where there are mobs,(not to mention with the intent on killing myself for quick transport.)and come back still alive.

So you want essentially split every megaserver in two. Good luck with that.