Make questing enjoyable for vet players too!

mocap

ZOS, don't leave us! Im not asking about new Craglorn (though Craglorn main quest line is actually easiest in game - big Manticore boss has 52k hp lol/facepalm). Im asking about making ALL current quests enjoyable for vet players. Somehow. Without pre-OT update instances ofcuz. Tx.

Danikat

Ok...but what, specifically, are you asking for? Do you want questing to be easier? Harder? More variety of storylines? Better voice acting?

You've given absolutely no information on why you don't find it enjoyable now, or what would make it enjoyable for you, which makes it impossible for ZOS to act on it even if they wanted to, or for anyone else to say if they agree with you or not.

Everstorm

Discussion has been done to death. There are no easy solutions and ZOS refuses to acknowledge it.

mocap

Danikat wrote: »

Ok...but what, specifically, are you asking for?

For vet players. Vet = veteran. Obviously harder.

Turelus

I agree with you, but on principle I can't vote in biased polls.

If you want to have a discussion or poll about buffing overland zones try to make one which isn't just a "everyone has to agree with me" style post.

Also roleplayers can be good at the game too. Roleplay =/= needing easy gameplay.

mocap

So we have new Murkmire DLC with new quests, storylines. I like ESO quests very much, i love dialogs, voice acting, story itself (most of the time). ESO has way more interesting quest than in most of single player RPG i've played.

But current difficulty of ESO questing RUIN all the fun for vet players. We need challenging story content! Not only "repeat this dungeon to death" endgame, but questing too!

Yes, you can play naked, disable CP... It's just BS and you know it.

Azurya

I skip questing with new toons, there are tons of things I do with new toons, but certainly not questing.
I only do the new dlc with main complete, all others just get those pieces they need to perform, like psijic skills.

Turelus

mocap wrote: »

So we have new Murkmire DLC with new quests, storylines. I like ESO quests very much, i love dialogs, voice acting, story itself (most of the time). ESO has way more interesting quest than in most of single player RPG i've played.

But current difficulty of ESO questing RUIN all the fun for vet players. We need challenging story content! Not only "repeat this dungeon to death" endgame, but questing too!

Yes, you can play naked, disable CP... It's just BS and you know it.

There have been a lot of people asking for a VR or no CP version of the overland content for a while. The issue ZOS needs to solve though is making overland harder for veterans, but not making it too hard for new players (no CP and knowledge can make overland very hard) without splitting the population.

They might be able to do something which grants an optional (and dismissible) debuff to power players down. So people who want harder content can just debuff themselves.

Arato

I could agree with making a veteran questing mode provided it has no exclusive rewards to it. if the point is simply having more difficult questing content for challenge's sake then that should be enough, but something tells me you want some sort of exclusive reward for it as a means to exclude other people and stand on a mountain and proclaim you're better than other people for being able to do it. There's already enough exclusivity with VMA , VDSA, Vet Trials and PVP leaderboards.

MaleAmazon

Discussion has been done to death.

True.

There are no easy solutions

Yes there is an easy solution, as has been put forth before by myself and others. We just need a debuff similar to battle spirit (someone suggested having it through an 'undaunted beer' which would be fitting IMO) that debuffs the player and gives some small award in return.

and ZOS refuses to acknowledge it.

Indeed.

Shraar

I think the people suggesting a debuff battlespirit for questing are being silly. Who would ever elect to be nerfed just to experience quest content, the true reward of which is the story?

No no, if you want a nerf, unequip your armor and craft a low level weapon. Or just light attack. I have no idea why you'd want to progress through the tension less action slower but if you do, that's your choice, not anyone else's responsibility!

Suggesting that there be a reward to it, however small, is also a terrible idea! That way new players are penalized for questing without the reward. Questing is there to show the world, teach new players the ropes, and most importantly enjoy story. If you want difficult content, do dungeons, trials, veteran dungeons, or pvp!

[Edited for rude and insulting commentary]

Turelus

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Yes there is an easy solution, as has been put forth before by myself and others. We just need a debuff similar to battle spirit (someone suggested having it through an 'undaunted beer' which would be fitting IMO) that debuffs the player and gives some small award in return.

And here comes the part we always end up at with discussions about easy content.

People say they want harder content to feel challenged, but won't accept that harder content unless it also rewards them with something (other than the increased challenge of the game).

MaleAmazon

People say they want harder content to feel challenged, but won't accept that harder content unless it also rewards them with something (other than the increased challenge of the game).

I´d accept it, but normally when you up the difficulty you get better rewards (e.g. veteran dungeons).

I think the people suggesting a debuff battlespirit for questing are being silly. Who would ever elect to be nerfed just to experience quest content, the true reward of which is the story?

Because the story of a powerful enemy is kinda ruined a bit when you kill that enemy before their intro dialogue finishes.


The rest of your post is quite frankly too silly to respond to.

Danikat

Turelus wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

So we have new Murkmire DLC with new quests, storylines. I like ESO quests very much, i love dialogs, voice acting, story itself (most of the time). ESO has way more interesting quest than in most of single player RPG i've played.

But current difficulty of ESO questing RUIN all the fun for vet players. We need challenging story content! Not only "repeat this dungeon to death" endgame, but questing too!

Yes, you can play naked, disable CP... It's just BS and you know it.

There have been a lot of people asking for a VR or no CP version of the overland content for a while. The issue ZOS needs to solve though is making overland harder for veterans, but not making it too hard for new players (no CP and knowledge can make overland very hard) without splitting the population.

They might be able to do something which grants an optional (and dismissible) debuff to power players down. So people who want harder content can just debuff themselves.

I like that idea.

I currently play with no CP because I find that makes the difficulty about right for me, and I'm fine with doing it but then I feel like I can't do dungeons on the same characters because people will expect me to be using CP.

A way to switch the effects of CP on and off would be perfect. That way I could apply the points, disable them and only turn them on when I'm doing group content where it's needed or expected...or maybe if I'm playing at an odd time when there's few people about and I just want to kill the boss and move on.

I'd be absolutely fine with it not awarding anything extra. Open-world content doesn't reward much anyway (the best stuff comes from treasure chests and resource nodes, which would be unaffected by this change) and keeping it the same would make this genuinely optional instead of penalising those who already struggle with it.

And if you think it's stupid to make the game harder then the solution is simple - don't. Don't turn off your CP and you can continue to play exactly the same as you do now.

Haashhtaag

As a vet player with max CP there is almost no incentive for me to quest unless I want soul assault, specific named items from overland that are tied to a quest, or a quest from grinding undaunted for skill points. I don’t bother doing the main story line quest for skill points as it’s a huge time sink.

Kiralyn2000

OP, show me a single mainstream MMO where true "veteran players" are challenged by newly released zone/quest content. Every WoW expansion that I played, the raiders plowed through the new quests without pause, until they got (once again) to the new level cap, did dungeons, and finally started to collect new gear. (disclaimer: this was awhile ago, I've no idea how more recent expansions have gone)

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Yes there is an easy solution, as has been put forth before by myself and others. We just need a debuff similar to battle spirit (someone suggested having it through an 'undaunted beer' which would be fitting IMO) that debuffs the player and gives some small award in return.

Eh, the zone mobs will still not be a challenge to veterans, since they still would be in scattered groups, still not use fancy mechanics, etc. Just being debuffed will make the fights take more than 3 hits, but it wouldn't make them 'challenging' or 'interesting'. (which is why removing CP and wearing garbage white gear doesn't make things 'harder' for vets, either - because they know the game mechanics inside & out, and won't be challenged by anything that's not a vet dungeon fight.)

Danikat

mocap wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

Ok...but what, specifically, are you asking for?

For vet players. Vet = veteran. Obviously harder.

Problem with this is it's only obvious to the people who have seen all the other discussions on this. So unless your intention was to create a 'dead horse' topic strictly for people already familiar with the issue to re-hash all the same things they've all said before you really needed to include enough information in the first post for other people to understand what the discussion was about.

And if that wasn't your intention, or if it was a different topic with less of a standard format for discussions, it would risk someone misinterpreting you and 'taking over' your topic to discuss what they think the problem is.

Basically if you want to start a discussion on how to fix something it's best to start almost assuming the people reading know nothing about the situation: explain what you think the problem is, why it's a problem and what you'd like to see done to fix it. Then ask if they agree.

MaleAmazon

Eh, the zone mobs will still not be a challenge to veterans, since they still would be in scattered groups, still not use fancy mechanics, etc. Just being debuffed will make the fights take more than 3 hits, but it wouldn't make them 'challenging' or 'interesting'. (which is why removing CP and wearing garbage white gear doesn't make things 'harder' for vets, either - because they know the game mechanics inside & out, and won't be challenged by anything that's not a vet dungeon fight.)

The bosses would be more interesting, and you´d at least see more mechanics. It would at least not make me feel like I accidentally slipped and adjusted some slider to 'very easy'.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

MaleAmazon wrote: »

People say they want harder content to feel challenged, but won't accept that harder content unless it also rewards them with something (other than the increased challenge of the game).

I´d accept it, but normally when you up the difficulty you get better rewards (e.g. veteran dungeons).

I think the people suggesting a debuff battlespirit for questing are being silly. Who would ever elect to be nerfed just to experience quest content, the true reward of which is the story?

Because the story of a powerful enemy is kinda ruined a bit when you kill that enemy before their intro dialogue finishes.


The rest of your post is quite frankly too silly to respond to.

I think the main story could’ve been better, not a generic “save the world from the big bad” but more options would be nice. It felt too short for me and I would’ve even preferred an ending to join Molag. So far I’m refusing to do the quest God of Schemes because of this.

jrgray93

I am behind on quests but I can't make progress without getting bored out of my mind. I spend 90% of the time listening to NPCs yapping because I can kill enemies by looking at them funny. I could intentionally cripple my build, but that just feels wrong. Anyway, beating a dead horse here.

Thraben

Everstorm wrote: »

Discussion has been done to death. There are no easy solutions and ZOS refuses to acknowledge it.

Well, Battle Spirit exists, so....

Thraben wrote: »

Hi!

As we all know adventuring in One Tamriel is far too easy for experienced players. As ZOS doesn´t appear to introduce a typical Elder Scrolls difficulty slider, mabe we can have this? While the greater income will be automatically reduced by higher repair costs, the purple and yellow loot is the true incencitive - not because it´s good but because we crafters want to deconstruct it


The Curse of Clavicus Vile

---

You have wished for great wealth - and now you will suffer for it.

Duration: 60 Minutes
Not active in instances or in Cyrodiil.

Decreases your damage, healing and size of your damage shields by 50%.
Increases incoming damage by 50%.

Increases the money you earn by defeating enemies by 100%.
Increases the chance to get loot of purple or gold quality from defeated enemies.

You can be cursed after praying at a Daedric Shrine of Clavicus Vile.

ezio45

im a fully lvl'd player and I enjoy the overland content o.O

Linaleah

harder =/= more enjoyable for everyone. its an assumption some people like to make, but its not true in all cases. how do you define veteran player. someone who's been playing for a while? or someone who pushes higher difficulties, regardless of length of time they have been in a game? becasue the 2 are NOT interchangeable. they overlap some of the time, but its not one an the same.

in any case - optional difficulty something has been suggested before, but doesn't seem to be priority at this time.

P.S. your poll is biased and leading

Swomp23

Arato wrote: »

I could agree with making a veteran questing mode provided it has no exclusive rewards to it. if the point is simply having more difficult questing content for challenge's sake then that should be enough, but something tells me you want some sort of exclusive reward for it as a means to exclude other people and stand on a mountain and proclaim you're better than other people for being able to do it. There's already enough exclusivity with VMA , VDSA, Vet Trials and PVP leaderboards.

I can't speak for others, but for me, all I would want is slightly higher exp, to make up for the longer kill times, and maybe slightly better loot tables, for people at max cp. I don't care for titles or skins. On the other hand, I don't get why it bothers you. If people are proud of something, let them be.

The reason no one is running naked with no cp right now is that there is no incentive to do so. Why hinder yourself if it just means it slows down your long term plan (grinding cp and equipment)?

With a difficulty slider, that acts a little like battle spirit, wich increases you damage taken and reduces your damage done on overland mobs, but gives you better exp and loot as difficulty increases, everybody would be able to find his sweet spot, from lvl 1 to cp 810.

Linaleah

Swomp23 wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

I could agree with making a veteran questing mode provided it has no exclusive rewards to it. if the point is simply having more difficult questing content for challenge's sake then that should be enough, but something tells me you want some sort of exclusive reward for it as a means to exclude other people and stand on a mountain and proclaim you're better than other people for being able to do it. There's already enough exclusivity with VMA , VDSA, Vet Trials and PVP leaderboards.

I can't speak for others, but for me, all I would want is slightly higher exp, to make up for the longer kill times, and maybe slightly better loot tables, for people at max cp. I don't care for titles or skins. On the other hand, I don't get why it bothers you. If people are proud of something, let them be.

The reason no one is running naked with no cp right now is that there is no incentive to do so. Why hinder yourself if it just means it slows down your long term plan (grinding cp and equipment)?

With a difficulty slider, that acts a little like battle spirit, wich increases you damage taken and reduces your damage done on overland mobs, but gives you better exp and loot as difficulty increases, everybody would be able to find his sweet spot, from lvl 1 to cp 810.

problem with difficulty sliders is that they will immediately be cheesed. you either have separate veteran zones or you have players grouping where one used slider and the other didn't and second player carries the first. (and or they take turns to increased rewards without increased difficulty) and having separate veteran zones doesn't seem to be on ZoS's agenda

contrary to the claims of "we want challenge" people who yell the loudest will ALWAYS look for path of least resistance, only to turn around and complain how easy something is.

SpacemanSpiff1

There's little point in making overland content harder. It won't make the quests I've seen 5 times more interesting, just make them take longer. If I need more skill points on alts I'd rather burn through a zone than have to slog through damage sponges.

Starlock

I'm a vet player. Questing is enjoyable for me. Always has been.

Danksta

mocap wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

Ok...but what, specifically, are you asking for?

For vet players. Vet = veteran. Obviously harder.

But that doesn't make their crappy quests more enjoyable.

Swomp23

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

OP, show me a single mainstream MMO where true "veteran players" are challenged by newly released zone/quest content. Every WoW expansion that I played, the raiders plowed through the new quests without pause, until they got (once again) to the new level cap, did dungeons, and finally started to collect new gear. (disclaimer: this was awhile ago, I've no idea how more recent expansions have gone)

It's not because other MMOs don't do it the ESO shouldn't. In my opinion, ESO does the questing WAY BETTER than other MMOs. ESO also has the heritage from the other Elder Scrolls single player games, where questing and solo exploration was the heart of the game. There, you could change the difficulty of the game as your character progressed, so content wouldn't become uninteresting. I understand that some people always play on casual difficulty, because that's what they enjoy, but other people enjoy the exact opposite. ESO should propose questing to all those people, like Bethesda did in previous Elder Scrolls games.
I did Summerset questline recently. I've been told countless times how Sea Sloads were super powerful beings, super dangerous and all this. It died in 4 seconds. How do you want to be involved in the game after this? Same thing for final boss. As good as the story might be, I can't get immersed in it if the baddest guys you're supposed to kill are a total faceroll. I know other people feel like this too.

Swomp23

Linaleah wrote: »

harder =/= more enjoyable for everyone. its an assumption some people like to make, but its not true in all cases.

Well, for some people, it is. If it wasn't, games like Dark Souls wouldn't exist. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't make it true.
But we also get that some people don't enjoy difficult content. To all the people that said they enjoyed questing, well, good for you. But why can't you recognize that different people thrive different things? If you enjoy easy content, don't touch the difficulty slider, or don't drink the undaunted brew, or don't chose wathever solution ZOS proposes. But other people will enjoy it. Stop staring at your belly button.

Swomp23

Linaleah wrote: »

problem with difficulty sliders is that they will immediately be cheesed. you either have separate veteran zones or you have players grouping where one used slider and the other didn't and second player carries the first. (and or they take turns to increased rewards without increased difficulty) and having separate veteran zones doesn't seem to be on ZoS's agenda

contrary to the claims of "we want challenge" people who yell the loudest will ALWAYS look for path of least resistance, only to turn around and complain how easy something is.

Easily fixed. Only the group leader has access to the difficulty slider, which affects the whole group. Different zones wouldn't be a good idea, as I think this game is better with vets and newbies mixing together to help each other.

As for your second point, I'm not sure I get it, but for me, the path of least resistance means the best way to beat the game. And yes, that's part of the fun. In front of a difficult challenge, find a way to overcome it. And then turn yourself to a harder one. I don't see where the problem is in this.