Attitude of players - Patch?

Biro123 · October 2018

Lisutaris wrote: »

Behave like grown ups....

Everytime CPs are increased, the whole game gets a "debuff" or "nerf" ... Call it as you like.
OFC there will be adjustments (nerfs) on some skills, stuff, etc, to balance this out.
Endgame content shouldn't become too easy. Otherwise it will be boring and ppl will start to complain (as they are already about world bosses, dolmen, some trials etc.)
You could skip/ignore whole mechanics because of extreme shielding(barriers) or raw dmg. That's not how a boss should be done.

The problem is that every time this happens, 'generic buffs' like CP's and new sets, or new, generic skill-lines are applied, - then class-specific nerfs happen to counter them.
Over time, bit by bit, classes become more homogenized as what made them different and fun gets watered down patch after patch. This has been going on for some time now, and it seems to be only a matter of time until they're pretty much identical - all having access to almost the same buffs, with the same durations - all using pretty much the same abilities, but with different coloured glows.. all pretty much stacking the same stats - and therefore running the same gear.. The only differences will be soo minimal as to not matter.

This is what people don't like.. It may not come out that way - but this is the crux of it.

Lisutaris · October 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Lisutaris wrote: »

Behave like grown ups....

Everytime CPs are increased, the whole game gets a "debuff" or "nerf" ... Call it as you like.
OFC there will be adjustments (nerfs) on some skills, stuff, etc, to balance this out.
Endgame content shouldn't become too easy. Otherwise it will be boring and ppl will start to complain (as they are already about world bosses, dolmen, some trials etc.)
You could skip/ignore whole mechanics because of extreme shielding(barriers) or raw dmg. That's not how a boss should be done.

The problem is that every time this happens, 'generic buffs' like CP's and new sets, or new, generic skill-lines are applied, - then class-specific nerfs happen to counter them.
Over time, bit by bit, classes become more homogenized as what made them different and fun gets watered down patch after patch. This has been going on for some time now, and it seems to be only a matter of time until they're pretty much identical - all having access to almost the same buffs, with the same durations - all using pretty much the same abilities, but with different coloured glows.. all pretty much stacking the same stats - and therefore running the same gear.. The only differences will be soo minimal as to not matter.

This is what people don't like.. It may not come out that way - but this is the crux of it.

Compare this to 99% of the forum complains.... I am sure you are not talking about the same thing....

I agree with everything you wrote. The difficult thing for Zos is to find a solution without destroying another part of the game... Solo gaming vs 4 ppl content vs 12 ppl content vs rvr vs solo difficult stuff (vmsa)
I dont think there will be any perfect solution and trying to make the best out of it is what they are doing now... can't be mad at them for trying their best ....

deLioncourt · October 2018

Lisutaris wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Lisutaris wrote: »

Behave like grown ups....

Everytime CPs are increased, the whole game gets a "debuff" or "nerf" ... Call it as you like.
OFC there will be adjustments (nerfs) on some skills, stuff, etc, to balance this out.
Endgame content shouldn't become too easy. Otherwise it will be boring and ppl will start to complain (as they are already about world bosses, dolmen, some trials etc.)
You could skip/ignore whole mechanics because of extreme shielding(barriers) or raw dmg. That's not how a boss should be done.

The problem is that every time this happens, 'generic buffs' like CP's and new sets, or new, generic skill-lines are applied, - then class-specific nerfs happen to counter them.
Over time, bit by bit, classes become more homogenized as what made them different and fun gets watered down patch after patch. This has been going on for some time now, and it seems to be only a matter of time until they're pretty much identical - all having access to almost the same buffs, with the same durations - all using pretty much the same abilities, but with different coloured glows.. all pretty much stacking the same stats - and therefore running the same gear.. The only differences will be soo minimal as to not matter.

This is what people don't like.. It may not come out that way - but this is the crux of it.

Compare this to 99% of the forum complains.... I am sure you are not talking about the same thing....

I agree with everything you wrote. The difficult thing for Zos is to find a solution without destroying another part of the game... Solo gaming vs 4 ppl content vs 12 ppl content vs rvr vs solo difficult stuff (vmsa)
I dont think there will be any perfect solution and trying to make the best out of it is what they are doing now... can't be mad at them for trying their best ....

"I dont think there will be any perfect solution"

Spoken like a true Zenimaxian.

evoniee · October 2018

cmon guys, people aleeady forgoting shield change. weapon enchantment is the main issue rn

Trinity_Is_My_Name · October 2018

The problem is it is impossible to "Balance" this game. Changes to Poisons, Enchants, etc and more cause more problems than they fix. And every time a new DLC comes out we get "X" number of new gear and sometimes Monster sets. With these new sets come some new ways to make a certain class into a powerhouse either in PVE or PVP or both. So what happens? Next thing you know the Forum lights up with "OMG, this guy beat me! Look at my Death Recap!" and it's on. The Nerf threads start and the player base hits the Forum threads hard with support to nerfs.

Now we have new threads already popping up with "OP build! Check this out!". Just look and see. And it's from PVP players who go out and immediately build the new Meta OP build and kill everyone in sight. I see a Torugs Pact/DW enchant build already destroying the opposition with ease. LOL. I'm sure ZOS will nerf it quickly and introduce more bugs.

Let's see what is broken (not OP, really broken) that I know of with the DLC Nerfmire: Templar Dark Flare, Sweeps, Jabs do not work correctly. Haven't tested the rest on Templar...yet. Dizzying Swing and Snipe not working correctly. Pets die almost instantly as you walk through Overland content and non group dungeons like delves and Public dungeons. In Group content Pets are almost as useless since they do not aggro anything. Oh and yesterday my Pet died in COH1 twice. Like...hmmmm. Sorcs are almost useless now, especially Pet Sorc builds.

So that is "Balance" from this last DLC. I'm sure I missed a ton of new bugs that will be overlooked for months and may be even years. OH, anyone see if Arcane Well is working? LOL! That has been broken forever with absolutely no response from ZOS. Check it out for yourself.

Pops_ND_Irish · October 2018

"I dont think there will be any perfect solution"

Exactly. No matter what is nerfed, not nerfed, changed, fixed, etc the whine elfs will continue on. Never satisfied

Odovacar · October 2018

Hey OP !!

Gotcha!

See we're adults

Biro123 · October 2018

Lisutaris wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Lisutaris wrote: »

Behave like grown ups....

Everytime CPs are increased, the whole game gets a "debuff" or "nerf" ... Call it as you like.
OFC there will be adjustments (nerfs) on some skills, stuff, etc, to balance this out.
Endgame content shouldn't become too easy. Otherwise it will be boring and ppl will start to complain (as they are already about world bosses, dolmen, some trials etc.)
You could skip/ignore whole mechanics because of extreme shielding(barriers) or raw dmg. That's not how a boss should be done.

The problem is that every time this happens, 'generic buffs' like CP's and new sets, or new, generic skill-lines are applied, - then class-specific nerfs happen to counter them.
Over time, bit by bit, classes become more homogenized as what made them different and fun gets watered down patch after patch. This has been going on for some time now, and it seems to be only a matter of time until they're pretty much identical - all having access to almost the same buffs, with the same durations - all using pretty much the same abilities, but with different coloured glows.. all pretty much stacking the same stats - and therefore running the same gear.. The only differences will be soo minimal as to not matter.

This is what people don't like.. It may not come out that way - but this is the crux of it.

Compare this to 99% of the forum complains.... I am sure you are not talking about the same thing....

I agree with everything you wrote. The difficult thing for Zos is to find a solution without destroying another part of the game... Solo gaming vs 4 ppl content vs 12 ppl content vs rvr vs solo difficult stuff (vmsa)
I dont think there will be any perfect solution and trying to make the best out of it is what they are doing now... can't be mad at them for trying their best ....

Not really.. I mean every class has its strengths and weaknesses.. but everytime they put in 'power-creep' in the shape of new CP's/gear etc, content becomes too easy for their liking, so something needs to be hammered down..
What are the obvious things? those class strengths... One classes damage stands out? - hammer it down. One class has too much defence? - hammer it down etc... until nobody has too much of anything and all are equal in all areas...

The class-targeted nerfs which people are complaining about are a symptom of the power-creep cause.

carlos424 · October 2018

Nerfs, in general, aren’t the problem. The problem is such extreme nerfs all at one time. You want to nerf shields, fine. Nerf them by maybe 25%. If thats not enough, add another 10% next patch. Same with speed. When you nerf something that is a core part of probably half the builds in the game by 60-70% (shields) you have to expect a backlash from players. Wouldnt it be better to nerf in stages, in order to let people start adjusting their play styles a little at a time? No one wants to log on one day and find that they have to respec, grind new gear, and learn a new rotation all at once.

Vahrokh · October 2018

Lisutaris wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lisutaris wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

You're asking too much. The sorc mains are already calling for a riot.

Meanwhile those of us who play a lot of DK are just like...."? - so you got nerfed huh? meh, its not like we ever get nerfed"

We just move on and take the nerfs in our stride xD

What do the wise teach in EvE Online and in real life?

"If you want to achieve or just defend something you have got, you got to fight for it. Else it'll be taken away from you".

I am fighting against moronic developers since 2001, when a "successful" MMO consisted of 40k players.
I've learned across close to 2 decades how the whole MMO "mechanism" works.

I'll tell you a secret: it does not work out of kindness. It's a fight:

- against clueless "second generation" game designers, who cost much less and usually replace the original designers who had a vision.
- against developers who are always oppressed by deadlines and publishers and who try to get stuff done with a "80 / 20" approach: achieve 80% doing 20%. Too bad, quality is usually included in the 20% that is cut off.
- against ever angry, opposite faction / class / race / spec players.

Who succeeds at this is not who begs nicely.

Those who beg nicely are still waiting multiclass dragons in Istaria (after 17 years). Are still waiting for their heavy armor class to fullfill its "classic" purpose (WoW) while others achieved what they wanted after 1.5 years with me as their leader.
They are still waiting for NGE to be reversed (game shut down well before that).
They are still waiting for their EvE features to be implemented, while others (with 5 leaders including me) achieved "$1000 jeans" game designer approach to be trashed.
They are still waiting for their feature to be implemented in ToA while we "others" nasty guys had our race get 90% of priority.

And so on.

Who wants to succed has to be brutal, merciless, organize forum riots, social manipulation, server crashes, mass mail bombing, organized gaming review websites "approach" and much more. That's what you learn in all those years of fighting for your beloved class to not be forgotten and trashed.

Because who you have against are busy and / or dumb and / or coward people who can't care the less about you, about the thousands dollars and hours you poured into their product. Then there are publishers whose only purpose in life is to make beancounters happy and - if you have to cut corners and screw up players - go ahead and do it. The latter is why I supported Star Citizen, that is freedom from publishers dictatorship.

So, keep asking nicely for DK or Warden changes, by 2090 you'll have a breadcrumb. In the meanwhile we are getting several nerfs reduced and undone to bearable levels. And announced bugfix at next mini-patch.

I am simply amazed ... that is a wall of text that is a rival to mine
Yea... some points are not only true, history has proved it already.

BUT ... and here is the huge BUT .... we are talking about a game ...
Next would be flipping cars in front of the headquarters ? xD
(need a meme here .... "YOU NERFED MY BUILD NOW! I NERF YOUR CAR!)
Nah, will stick to be friendly and ... nice guy white knight mentality

I have created 4 companies, have gone to live and work overseas, have grinded from living below a bridge to living in a nice home on a tropical island.
It did not come easily, nor quickly, I had to carve a living out of nothingness. This certainly did not help making me a sweet guy.

Alas, as wise Ripley teached me: "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure".

I am so agree with you i just want to add one more thing if we are quoting Ripley when it comes for sorcerers so ZOS this is for you when it comes for sorc nerfs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDqTwSO1DDc

(OFC nothign personal and dont take it in the wrong side okay?

Still as unnecessary as all the ranting but ok

I don't think they will listen to you ... or to Vahrokh. Maybe if some of your posts wouldn't be as aggressive as they are xD.

...

Also ... the pet survival rate is not how it was intended ... and they are going to fix it. Look at some console players and how long they are waiting for a hotfix for the ww in the ww dlc ...

In case you didn't notice, they exactly listened to me. I created the harsh threads about pets being officially useless both on general and PTS forums.

I am ugly, but I deliver.

Lisutaris · October 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

In case you didn't notice, they exactly listened to me. I created the harsh threads about pets being officially useless both on general and PTS forums.

I am ugly, but I deliver.

It was 100% only your post and you were the only one who mentioned it .... Look around you... A lot of players wrote the same and not only that... they even described the issue.
You are not meaningless, creating threads about bugs/failed implements are ok and NEEDED ... but you can watch the language and use of words. Maybe some guys will only listen to your "harsh and brutal words" but every top management I know isn't intersted in emotional feedback... they want facts and without drama.