Bleed Adjustment for PVP

bpmachete · October 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

bpmachete wrote: »

Bleeds should not crit

I think this is wrobel in disguise.

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Did you guys already get to the point, where you included infused weapon enchants into the math proccing from rending slashes?

I’ve tried pointing it out but most of the community are currently still in blissful ignorance as to how utterly broken that is.

Wait till they start seeing kill feeds where every other damage source is a enchant proc

I don't understand why a bleed would proc an enchant. Just on the basis the weapon should have to be hitting you.

The bleeds will be so dumb this patch, and Zos is blind to it still, they taking away Overload bar, doings things that are completely unnecessary and then further increasing the problem of bleeds being over powered.

Again make bleeds not proc anything and not crit players. If they want to keep the bleeds crit and proc enchants and make shields and vampires bleed they can do it in Pve.

Nicko_Lps · October 2018

I insist on BUFF bleeds and make those heavy armor tanklings that wander around cyro in packs BLEED

After all farming VMA is super easy because its you vs mechanics, now farming VDSA is not easy because its you+3 other players VS mechanics. No reason to see bleed sets getting nerfed as some request because they dont have them or they dont wanna farm them.

PS
I dont use bleeds on my magsorc

RinaldoGandolphi · October 2018

Bleeds are going to ahve to be changed, they are too strong.

they cost ZERO RESOURCES (Heavy Weapons Bleed and Twin Blade and Blunt Bleed) they do an absurd amount of damage just for light or heavy attacking, even if you block the attack you still get a bleed proc on you which is stupid.

You know what effects Fire, Lighting, and Ice Staff attacks get with no enchant on them, NOTHING they won't even proc a elemental effect, yet just equipping an axe or a two handed axe with no enchant or poison on them will proc resource free bleeds, I mean are you kidding me?

Either you half the damage of bleeds, or you give one of the Destruction Staffs a passive that allows them to inflict a DOT that ignores spell resist.....i'd rather you half the damage on bleeds then to introduce another noobified mechanic that allows people to get free proc damage from light or heavy attacking...who thought this was a good idea?....

Qbiken · October 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Bleeds are going to ahve to be changed, they are too strong.

they cost ZERO RESOURCES (Heavy Weapons Bleed and Twin Blade and Blunt Bleed) they do an absurd amount of damage just for light or heavy attacking, even if you block the attack you still get a bleed proc on you which is stupid.

You know what effects Fire, Lighting, and Ice Staff attacks get with no enchant on them, NOTHING they won't even proc a elemental effect, yet just equipping an axe or a two handed axe with no enchant or poison on them will proc resource free bleeds, I mean are you kidding me?

Either you half the damage of bleeds, or you give one of the Destruction Staffs a passive that allows them to inflict a DOT that ignores spell resist.....i'd rather you half the damage on bleeds then to introduce another noobified mechanic that allows people to get free proc damage from light or heavy attacking...who thought this was a good idea?....

It would honestly be interesting to see magicka get a "bleed" that is unique for magicka users and ignores spell-resistance. Maybe Coldfire damage could be a thing for magicka users??

And you can delete werewolf from somewhat competitive PvP if bleed damage where severely nerfed, just saying.

Feanor · October 2018

And you can delete werewolf from somewhat competitive PvP if bleed damage where severely nerfed, just saying.

If you do it with the sledgehammer method that is the M.O. of the game developers, yes. If you do it right Werewolf could gain a unique position where it stands out as having sole possession of a powerful bleed that at least comes with a cost and not so high uptime.

Enchant Procs on top of the Bleeds. Another proof the dev team just has no idea.

Qbiken · October 2018

Feanor wrote: »

And you can delete werewolf from somewhat competitive PvP if bleed damage where severely nerfed, just saying.

If you do it with the sledgehammer method that is the M.O. of the game developers, yes. If you do it right Werewolf could gain a unique position where it stands out as having sole possession of a powerful bleed that at least comes with a cost and not so high uptime.

Enchant Procs on top of the Bleeds. Another proof the dev team just has no idea.

That´s a big IF tbh

, but agree with your response.

And ye, the enchants proccing of bleeds next patch will be disgusting.

Olupajmibanan · October 2018

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nicko_Lps · October 2018

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nerfing bleeds and specially the master's set its not so nice looking since farming this set is probably one of the most painfull things to do in this game.

Bleeds are strong and they should be strong, but its silly to have a tank in heavy armor dishing out that insane dmg while taking minimal damage.

The bleed damage is strong and should be strong but, while on medium armor in a glassy build. Not in heavy armors .

Olupajmibanan · October 2018

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nerfing bleeds and specially the master's set its not so nice looking since farming this set is probably one of the most painfull things to do in this game.

Bleeds are strong and they should be strong, but its silly to have a tank in heavy armor dishing out that insane dmg while taking minimal damage.

The bleed damage is strong and should be strong but, while on medium armor in a glassy build. Not in heavy armors .

Just to be completely clear, bleeds do more dmg while in medium armor than in heavy.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2018

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nerfing bleeds and specially the master's set its not so nice looking since farming this set is probably one of the most painfull things to do in this game.

Bleeds are strong and they should be strong, but its silly to have a tank in heavy armor dishing out that insane dmg while taking minimal damage.

The bleed damage is strong and should be strong but, while on medium armor in a glassy build. Not in heavy armors .

And how would you archive that? By manipulating how their damage scales? Than we are again at nerfing heavy sets and adding high stat sets for medium. Or do you think about a form of punishment for heavy like it get thrown around often these days?

Nicko_Lps · October 2018

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nerfing bleeds and specially the master's set its not so nice looking since farming this set is probably one of the most painfull things to do in this game.

Bleeds are strong and they should be strong, but its silly to have a tank in heavy armor dishing out that insane dmg while taking minimal damage.

The bleed damage is strong and should be strong but, while on medium armor in a glassy build. Not in heavy armors .

Just to be completely clear, bleeds do more dmg while in medium armor than in heavy.

Ofc they do, but you can pressure a medium armor. While you cant really pressure that much a heavy amror. Thats the problem with bleeds in heavy and that is the main reason players use heavy in their bleed builds and not medium that deals more dmg.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nerfing bleeds and specially the master's set its not so nice looking since farming this set is probably one of the most painfull things to do in this game.

Bleeds are strong and they should be strong, but its silly to have a tank in heavy armor dishing out that insane dmg while taking minimal damage.

The bleed damage is strong and should be strong but, while on medium armor in a glassy build. Not in heavy armors .

And how would you archive that? By manipulating how their damage scales? Than we are again at nerfing heavy sets and adding high stat sets for medium. Or do you think about a form of punishment for heavy like it get thrown around often these days?

Im not a dev, its not my job to call nerfs or buffs its actually something that i really hate.
Im just pointing out what i see performing extremely well.

Im just stating my opinion while ZoS claimed that they dont like glassy builds therefore they ARE pushing players to heavy, its actually what ZoS wants we like it or not, but hey i do have the right to state my opinion right?

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2018

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nerfing bleeds and specially the master's set its not so nice looking since farming this set is probably one of the most painfull things to do in this game.

Bleeds are strong and they should be strong, but its silly to have a tank in heavy armor dishing out that insane dmg while taking minimal damage.

The bleed damage is strong and should be strong but, while on medium armor in a glassy build. Not in heavy armors .

Just to be completely clear, bleeds do more dmg while in medium armor than in heavy.

Ofc they do, but you can pressure a medium armor. While you cant really pressure that much a heavy amror. Thats the problem with bleeds in heavy and that is the main reason players use heavy in their bleed builds and not medium that deals more dmg.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nerfing bleeds and specially the master's set its not so nice looking since farming this set is probably one of the most painfull things to do in this game.

Bleeds are strong and they should be strong, but its silly to have a tank in heavy armor dishing out that insane dmg while taking minimal damage.

The bleed damage is strong and should be strong but, while on medium armor in a glassy build. Not in heavy armors .

And how would you archive that? By manipulating how their damage scales? Than we are again at nerfing heavy sets and adding high stat sets for medium. Or do you think about a form of punishment for heavy like it get thrown around often these days?

Im not a dev, its not my job to call nerfs or buffs its actually something that i really hate.
Im just pointing out what i see performing extremely well.

Im just stating my opinion while ZoS claimed that they dont like glassy builds therefore they ARE pushing players to heavy, its actually what ZoS wants we like it or not, but hey i do have the right to state my opinion right?

Man, you are really on a roll as of late. Suspecting an insult and agenda behind every corner while throwing a tantrum in all your posts. Might want to take a step outside? Don't want you to burst a vein.

Nicko_Lps · October 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nerfing bleeds and specially the master's set its not so nice looking since farming this set is probably one of the most painfull things to do in this game.

Bleeds are strong and they should be strong, but its silly to have a tank in heavy armor dishing out that insane dmg while taking minimal damage.

The bleed damage is strong and should be strong but, while on medium armor in a glassy build. Not in heavy armors .

Just to be completely clear, bleeds do more dmg while in medium armor than in heavy.

Ofc they do, but you can pressure a medium armor. While you cant really pressure that much a heavy amror. Thats the problem with bleeds in heavy and that is the main reason players use heavy in their bleed builds and not medium that deals more dmg.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Let's look at sources of bleed.

The passive axes (both DW and 2H) bleed could be toned down, I agree. Maybe some adjustment to formula which determines damage based on max Stamina and Weapon Damage? It has passive source with little input needed to proc it, so no need to keep the damage that high. Or improve the duration of the dot further to 10 seconds, so the damage would be spread accross time and the duration would be in line with other dots.

Cleave damage could actually see a buff to damage. It's significantly inferior to Poison Injection or Twin Slashes.

Nerf to Master Dual Wield seems satisfactory to me. Look it this way:
The nerf does bring it in line with other sets such as Viper.
Viper does 800dmg/s in non-CP which is further reduced by resistances (thus it benefits from resistance reduction effects such as Major Fracture), but can proc poisoned status effects and sets/abilities that rely on damage over time effects.
Master Dual Wield adds 675dmg/s to your Twin Slashes dot in non-CP which has no side effects but ignores resistances (thus does not benefit from reduce resistances effect)

Twin Slashes bleed damage is in line with other single target dots such as Poison Injection. No need to adjust that. The same MasterDW vs Viper rule applies to Twin Slashes vs Poison Injection.

So all in all, my opinion is that the only bleeds that need adjustment are bleeds from passives Twin-Blades and Blunt and Heavy Weapons.

Nerfing bleeds and specially the master's set its not so nice looking since farming this set is probably one of the most painfull things to do in this game.

Bleeds are strong and they should be strong, but its silly to have a tank in heavy armor dishing out that insane dmg while taking minimal damage.

The bleed damage is strong and should be strong but, while on medium armor in a glassy build. Not in heavy armors .

And how would you archive that? By manipulating how their damage scales? Than we are again at nerfing heavy sets and adding high stat sets for medium. Or do you think about a form of punishment for heavy like it get thrown around often these days?

Im not a dev, its not my job to call nerfs or buffs its actually something that i really hate.
Im just pointing out what i see performing extremely well.

Im just stating my opinion while ZoS claimed that they dont like glassy builds therefore they ARE pushing players to heavy, its actually what ZoS wants we like it or not, but hey i do have the right to state my opinion right?

Man, you are really on a roll as of late. Suspecting an insult and agenda behind every corner while throwing a tantrum in all your posts. Might want to take a step outside? Don't want you to burst a vein.

Suspecting an insult? I wouldnt care, i have many of them print screened because it actually makes me laugh.

Im throwing a tantrum? When somebody is not replying like: Yes you are absolutely right and im absolutely wrong , you consider it as a tantrum? One of the basic principles of democracy is free speech, now if you find free speech a tantrum or insult or whatever i really think you live in WW2 and you got "his" ideals.

Step outside? Im sure that would be very convenient with all forum whinebabies, but i dont think so xD

Ragnarock41 · October 2018

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Bleeds are going to ahve to be changed, they are too strong.

they cost ZERO RESOURCES (Heavy Weapons Bleed and Twin Blade and Blunt Bleed) they do an absurd amount of damage just for light or heavy attacking, even if you block the attack you still get a bleed proc on you which is stupid.

You know what effects Fire, Lighting, and Ice Staff attacks get with no enchant on them, NOTHING they won't even proc a elemental effect, yet just equipping an axe or a two handed axe with no enchant or poison on them will proc resource free bleeds, I mean are you kidding me?

Either you half the damage of bleeds, or you give one of the Destruction Staffs a passive that allows them to inflict a DOT that ignores spell resist.....i'd rather you half the damage on bleeds then to introduce another noobified mechanic that allows people to get free proc damage from light or heavy attacking...who thought this was a good idea?....

This is part of why stamDk(also partly magDk but they are not a purely dot class so) feels so damn awful. Bleeds do more damage for less sustain required.

As a dot based class it makes you feel worthless to see a bleed hitting 3x harder than your main class damage skill(claws).

Purdomination33 · October 2018

Bleed+Hurricane+Spin2win. Instant PvP victory.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2018

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Bleed+Hurricane+Spin2win. Instant PvP victory.

Now substract 25% dmg of 2 of those skills.

Feanor · October 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Bleed+Hurricane+Spin2win. Instant PvP victory.

Now substract 25% dmg of 2 of those skills.

Mag classes won’t be having a significant major evasion uptime.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Bleed+Hurricane+Spin2win. Instant PvP victory.

Now substract 25% dmg of 2 of those skills.

Mag classes won’t be having a significant major evasion uptime.

What happened to the stam meta?

Feanor · October 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Bleed+Hurricane+Spin2win. Instant PvP victory.

Now substract 25% dmg of 2 of those skills.

Mag classes won’t be having a significant major evasion uptime.

What happened to the stam meta?

Still there of course. I just wanted to point out that the argument that major evasion somehow limits how good the Spin2Win setup is isn’t entirely true.

Mayrael · October 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Bleed+Hurricane+Spin2win. Instant PvP victory.

Now substract 25% dmg of 2 of those skills.

Now just cast quick cloak to get 25% aoe damage reduction, 30% all damage reduction and 30% movement speed.

dagonbeer · October 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Bleed+Hurricane+Spin2win. Instant PvP victory.

Now substract 25% dmg of 2 of those skills.

Now just cast quick cloak to get 25% aoe damage reduction, 30% all damage reduction and 30% movement speed.

And give up master's dw? Unlikely.

I wish they'd buff maelstrom dw though. Always liked the sound for flurry.

Rukzadlithau · October 2018

Bleeds will spoil the concept of new infused/enchant rules on dw for PvP.

Bleed skills/passives have to be individually decreased, to a point where they‘re present but not dominant.

The weapon choice should allow equal viability to the functionality of their enchants by chosing the right feature (dmg/pen/crit). In Murkmire axes make a choice for PvP futile, as bleeds are always the best source of damage ontop of automatic enchant procs, because they‘re strong from the get go - you don‘t have to specifically build for it. And it’s literally beginner proof in utilisation and basically resource free.

Master DW is not the problem.
New infused/enchant rules are not the problem.

Twin Slashes and Weapon Line passive bleeds are the root.

Narrow minded slow learners will dispute it anyways, because they figured to stack bleeds with Master DW way late in Wolfhunter. Rotation blind dps bots aren‘t even aware twin slashes has a mitigateable burst component that can be altered to not decrase PvE dps.

Welcome to another 3 months of Bleed stacking ontop of resource free proc damage.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

Buzo wrote: »

Bleeds will spoil the concept of new infused/enchant rules on dw for PvP.

Bleed skills/passives have to be individually decreased, to a point where they‘re present but not dominant.

The weapon choice should allow equal viability to the functionality of their enchants by chosing the right feature (dmg/pen/crit). In Murkmire axes make a choice for PvP futile, as bleeds are always the best source of damage ontop of automatic enchant procs, because they‘re strong from the get go - you don‘t have to specifically build for it. And it’s literally beginner proof in utilisation and basically resource free.

Master DW is not the problem.
New infused/enchant rules are not the problem.

Twin Slashes and Weapon Line passive bleeds are the root.

Narrow minded slow learners will dispute it anyways, because they figured to stack bleeds with Master DW way late in Wolfhunter. Rotation blind dps bots aren‘t even aware twin slashes has a mitigateable burst component that can be altered to not decrase PvE dps.

Welcome to another 3 months of Bleed stacking ontop of resource free proc damage.

This is simply not true.

Rending slash on live is really not a big deal. What's changed? Bleeds proccing enchants. That's your problem then.

Koensol · October 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

Bleeds will spoil the concept of new infused/enchant rules on dw for PvP.

Bleed skills/passives have to be individually decreased, to a point where they‘re present but not dominant.

The weapon choice should allow equal viability to the functionality of their enchants by chosing the right feature (dmg/pen/crit). In Murkmire axes make a choice for PvP futile, as bleeds are always the best source of damage ontop of automatic enchant procs, because they‘re strong from the get go - you don‘t have to specifically build for it. And it’s literally beginner proof in utilisation and basically resource free.

Master DW is not the problem.
New infused/enchant rules are not the problem.

Twin Slashes and Weapon Line passive bleeds are the root.

Narrow minded slow learners will dispute it anyways, because they figured to stack bleeds with Master DW way late in Wolfhunter. Rotation blind dps bots aren‘t even aware twin slashes has a mitigateable burst component that can be altered to not decrase PvE dps.

Welcome to another 3 months of Bleed stacking ontop of resource free proc damage.

This is simply not true.

Rending slash on live is really not a big deal.

#Every bleed user ever.

At least come up with a valid comparison of the dmg in pvp of twin slashes vs other dots in game. Let me tell you there will be quite some disparity in there. But you would rather post empty comments in the hope you won't lose your crutch, in stead of actually making a valid point. Pity.

Feanor · October 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

Bleeds will spoil the concept of new infused/enchant rules on dw for PvP.

Bleed skills/passives have to be individually decreased, to a point where they‘re present but not dominant.

The weapon choice should allow equal viability to the functionality of their enchants by chosing the right feature (dmg/pen/crit). In Murkmire axes make a choice for PvP futile, as bleeds are always the best source of damage ontop of automatic enchant procs, because they‘re strong from the get go - you don‘t have to specifically build for it. And it’s literally beginner proof in utilisation and basically resource free.

Master DW is not the problem.
New infused/enchant rules are not the problem.

Twin Slashes and Weapon Line passive bleeds are the root.

Narrow minded slow learners will dispute it anyways, because they figured to stack bleeds with Master DW way late in Wolfhunter. Rotation blind dps bots aren‘t even aware twin slashes has a mitigateable burst component that can be altered to not decrase PvE dps.

Welcome to another 3 months of Bleed stacking ontop of resource free proc damage.

This is simply not true.

Rending slash on live is really not a big deal. What's changed? Bleeds proccing enchants. That's your problem then.

Yes, it’s clearly underpowered. Probably that’s why everyone is running it.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2018

Koensol wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

Bleeds will spoil the concept of new infused/enchant rules on dw for PvP.

Bleed skills/passives have to be individually decreased, to a point where they‘re present but not dominant.

The weapon choice should allow equal viability to the functionality of their enchants by chosing the right feature (dmg/pen/crit). In Murkmire axes make a choice for PvP futile, as bleeds are always the best source of damage ontop of automatic enchant procs, because they‘re strong from the get go - you don‘t have to specifically build for it. And it’s literally beginner proof in utilisation and basically resource free.

Master DW is not the problem.
New infused/enchant rules are not the problem.

Twin Slashes and Weapon Line passive bleeds are the root.

Narrow minded slow learners will dispute it anyways, because they figured to stack bleeds with Master DW way late in Wolfhunter. Rotation blind dps bots aren‘t even aware twin slashes has a mitigateable burst component that can be altered to not decrase PvE dps.

Welcome to another 3 months of Bleed stacking ontop of resource free proc damage.

This is simply not true.

Rending slash on live is really not a big deal.

#Every bleed user ever.

As a bleed build user since Pvp was all about burst I'd have no issue if they rework bleeds as long as it's not useless or only viable in connection with certain arena weapons.
First stop should be the passives tho, since they add too much with no cost.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

Koensol wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

Bleeds will spoil the concept of new infused/enchant rules on dw for PvP.

Bleed skills/passives have to be individually decreased, to a point where they‘re present but not dominant.

The weapon choice should allow equal viability to the functionality of their enchants by chosing the right feature (dmg/pen/crit). In Murkmire axes make a choice for PvP futile, as bleeds are always the best source of damage ontop of automatic enchant procs, because they‘re strong from the get go - you don‘t have to specifically build for it. And it’s literally beginner proof in utilisation and basically resource free.

Master DW is not the problem.
New infused/enchant rules are not the problem.

Twin Slashes and Weapon Line passive bleeds are the root.

Narrow minded slow learners will dispute it anyways, because they figured to stack bleeds with Master DW way late in Wolfhunter. Rotation blind dps bots aren‘t even aware twin slashes has a mitigateable burst component that can be altered to not decrase PvE dps.

Welcome to another 3 months of Bleed stacking ontop of resource free proc damage.

This is simply not true.

Rending slash on live is really not a big deal.

#Every bleed user ever.

At least come up with a valid comparison of the dmg in pvp of twin slashes vs other dots in game. Let me tell you there will be quite some disparity in there. But you would rather post empty comments in the hope you won't lose your crutch, in stead of actually making a valid point. Pity.

Magblade main. 2h Sword Stamblade 2nd.

Don't use any bleeds on my main two characters so my experience with them is largely how likely they are to kill me spoiler: it's not very often.

People use them because consistent, reliable damage is really useful for sustained pressure but they're a log way from OP tbh.

usmcjdking · October 2018

If you love bleeds and believe they should exist in their current form, then I should be able to go through your entire post history and not see single complaint about shields. The reason shields were/are OP is the same structural reason as to why bleeds are.

Bleeds allow you to flat out ignore an important stat - penetration. In addition to ignoring your penetration, it ignores the enemies armor resistance, which gives bleeds a gigantic efficacy rate. Much like shields and CHC, bleeds are in the same boat.

Bleeds then manage to also do greater amounts of effective damage to lower HP targets than higher HP targets which makes zero sense given that HA has greater natural HP and bleeds have been stated as being the counter to HA by the developers themselves. Bleeds don't counter HA, they counter everything.

In addition to all that, ZOS is going to try to balance the PVE & PVP with bleeds. This is impossible; I mean it's actually impossible. The armor values of enemies and players are nowhere near the same. The effective work bleeds do versus players (irt to penetration) is significantly higher than the effective damage they do vs NPCs.

Cleanest fixes to bleeds - input a max HP cap. 6% is a good number per bleed. This is to ensure that health stacking remains punished by bleeds whereas using other defensive measures, most notably medium armor (bar cloak) is not absolutely molested by 2 bleeds that chunk you for 1/4 of your HP every tick.

WreckfulAbandon · October 2018

As long as healing is as strong as it is and abilities like Guard exist, you can't just look at bleeds in a vacuum. Stamsorcs, Stamplars, and WW all rely on bleeds to be competitive. And there are DoT builds with just as good pressure as bleed builds. Magicka builds too. If you don't believe me, PM me and duel my magplar. PC/NA same @ name as forum account. With all the insane healing there is you need bleeds paired with defile. And even then fights can drag out for a long time. Quit crying, can't believe this thread is still going on this far.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

Can't wait for the bleed defenders in this thread to get into Murkmire, get absolutely annihilated in PvP and see on their kill feed that every other damage source is a weapon enchant proc.

Then you will know we were right.