tannips wrote: »

I feel that the community was pretty outspoken when it came to the fact that we didn't want to see proc sets anymore. Viper, Red Mountain, Tremorscale - nerfing how strong they were was a great thing for pvp as they were clearly overperforming. With reintroducing proc sets such as Zaan, PvP truly feels like it took one step forward and another two steps back.

Problem with it is you don't even see it 90% of the time.

Big battles = invisible Zaan.

Prabooo wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Zaan has counters. Here is what I noticed when using it.

Sorcs use streak 1 time. Out of its range.

Doesn't always work if the enemy sits right on you when Zaan procs and spams gap closer. Had this happen last week - 2 streaks and Zaan unbroken, had to spam shields then because a 3rd streak would have get me killed ...

This is a good example. You had all the time to react properly, be it teleporting, shielding, heals, etc. Why ask for a nerf then?

Because it is ridiculous that i have to go full turtle mode for 5s while spending tons of resources to barely stay alive, just because some random proc happen to go off. It is stupid design.

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

Got a 18k proc ftom Zaan on my Magblade this evening, wearing 5x Impreg, 5x Spinners, 2x Skoria, all impen, in no CP campain...

You do know that, as pertains dealing with Zaan or any Offense Proc Set, your build effectively isn't sporting a single Defensive Set?

Just some food for thought...

Koensol wrote: »

I tried this set and I killed people while I was on the floor, cc'ed. I mean what da F...

Then why did they stand there eating all the damage? no time for heals, shields? block? roll? did he just freeze there? Not being ironic, just curious

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Ender1310 wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I have 30k resists in no cp and I have had a zaan hit me 23k. That is way over the top. Not only does it do insane damage but it also goes through block and objects, I have had zaan hit me through roofs, walls, trees ect, where is the counter play ? Many say just run, ok lol even when you run you will still take at least half of zaans ticks, already doing massive damage, this is also difficult since most avarage players cc you then second it procs, and even if they don't nothing is stopping them from just following you, making the beam stay on you. So yes 0 counterplay, you can't los, you can't block and you can rarely run.

Everything you said is wrong. Half the ticks from zaan isn't the half of 32k, it barely is 8k aprox and from a DoT, which gives time to react.
What you said about roofs, walls, trees, also false. It might have happened once or twice due to lag, but it doesn't work like that (I used zaan, so I can tell).
Once it procs you can: run, los, cloak, stun back and run, etc. Toooooons of counters.

Seriously, I haven't died to zaan in a very long time. And if I do in the future, I won't call for a nerf on something no one uses.

Seems like everyone I fight knows how to counter it. DK's wings all day. Other speed builds run circles /roll dodge so often its hard to land light attacks. Only a couple of build it really counters. Those are the builds that are used to shielding themselves through everything and don't know/feel they shouldn't have to ever run. L2 run like every other class/build has to.

I don't have wings, I don't have cloak, I'm heavy armor in no cp, I can't afford to roll 3 times. So yes running is the only viable counter, but zaan doesn't render the user immobile, nothing stops you from just running after me so the beam stays, and nothing stops you from ccing me once it procs, and even if I do run and use los, the beam is still on me.

You just don't seem to admit that it ignoring block and los is broken. I'm not asking for a damage nerf, I just want to have the same counters as other things, zaan should not ignore block, or a damn wall, having run away, turn a corner and zaan go through a wall and my shield is pathetic.

didn't know that it ignored block. Is this intended? This may be bug. Nothing on the tooltip says that.

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

Got a 18k proc ftom Zaan on my Magblade this evening, wearing 5x Impreg, 5x Spinners, 2x Skoria, all impen, in no CP campain...

As other posters have said nothing you listed impacts zaans. You should have cloaked it. You have a glass cannon build. There is no sustain there. Spinners gives you no sustain impreg gives you no sustain. You have to be able to shield multiple times/spam a healing skill. Do you use a resto staff? I bet not. Your a glass cannon basically. Replace Impreg with shackle breaker keep Skoria and use a resto staff/resto ult. Zaans procs go to your back bar and spam shield / use resto ult which should pretty much always be up. Guarentee you with stand the Zaans proc. Make sure your Magick regen is high enough to sustain use Atro stone instead of Apprentice...you have to sacrifice some damage but that's what pvp is. You continue being glass your going to break.

Ender1310 wrote: »

I dunno guys I seem to run into people all the time in non cp that can both withstand my Zaans and have enough burst to kill me. There are builds out there that can counter it.

Ender1310 wrote: »

There are tons of people that have build that can withstand Zaans and do a ton of damage.

You are seeing this wrong though. Just because someone can survive something does not mean it is balanced, it still does insane pressure with 0 counterplay as you can't los or block it.

I'm not saying zaan is auto win, but it is overperforming. In a group or outnumbered fight and your taking too much pressure you need to back off and use los or block, zaan will go through these things and kill you, zaan with how damaging it is (by far the most damaging set in the entire game) should not go through block, walls, trees, ceilings or whatever else you decide to use to try and block it.

Prabooo wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

I tried this set and I killed people while I was on the floor, cc'ed. I mean what da F...

Then why did they stand there eating all the damage? no time for heals, shields? block? roll? did he just freeze there? Not being ironic, just curious

This particular person tryharded me in a BG. I was in pariah + vampire so he spammed execute and got rekt by zaan while at it. This says enough though, that an opponent that has the upper hand needs to completely back down or go 100% defensive in order to survive the damage from zaan. No other set does this.

TheValar85 wrote: »

No thats enough Stop calling for another nerf, deal with your in game issues with logic and strategy instead of keep calling for more nerfs. or quit playing the game already.

Hmm well I can't run from it as I will get cc'd, I can't block it because it ignores block, I can't use an object to break the beam because it goes through everything....I'm out of ideas, I guess I will just soak up the 20k+ dmg that the dumb set does.

TheValar85 wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

No thats enough Stop calling for another nerf, deal with your in game issues with logic and strategy instead of keep calling for more nerfs. or quit playing the game already.

Hmm well I can't run from it as I will get cc'd, I can't block it because it ignores block, I can't use an object to break the beam because it goes through everything....I'm out of ideas, I guess I will just soak up the 20k+ dmg that the dumb set does.

okay what class do you have wich is struggle so hard against zaan?

I play stamsorc but class doesn't really matter because zaan should NOT ignore block and objects, if I roll behined a tree the beam shouldn't go right through it. And please don't tell me to use streak lol, streak is very clunky and has a few issues, and even so it would cost me 2-3 streaks to escape it, and that's only if I don't get cc'd.

Koensol wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

No thats enough Stop calling for another nerf, deal with your in game issues with logic and strategy instead of keep calling for more nerfs. or quit playing the game already.

Lol, you can smell the fear in this one

Just geared and started playing my Warden. BG's all day for an embarrassing 8 hours straight. Zero problems with Zaan's. So that's three classes that I have no problem against zaan users: Dragon knight (Wings hard to even land a light attack) Nightblade (cloak/resto shield/resto ultimate) Warden (healing trees slash major minor ward/Vigor/forward momentum/Bloodspawn).

Zero problem. In fact I am kind of owning them. Not trying to trivialize your issues vs Zaans. Also aware of the sample size issue. Just giving a perspective and maybe hope that you can come up with a build that can counter the Zaans.

My honest opinion. I spend so much time and effort and end game gold creating a good build for pvp. One that fits playstyle has defense and can kill.

If you build for damage and burst only there are so many things in this game that will eat you. I have been there done that. I see some people stating their defensive sets that don't help against any proc sets as they don't crit.

I see so many people that have 70K weapon damage and can pew pew and blow people up. Your gonna get eated by Zaans. Wear some shackle breakers/wear another set that gives both sustain and damage/come up with an ult gen build. so many of them and so many different classes that I run and they don't have an issue with Zaans procs.

My honest opinion. I stopped playing my Mag NB that uses Zaans. Don't really have a horse in the race as I have one of every class and so many different builds. I am not scared of losing Zaans at all I will switch to something else. Getting a little tired of having to constantly shift because someone else is wants it changed. I will BG some more today if Zaans alone eats me up I will let you know honestly and without prejudice.

Crixus8000 wrote: »

@Ender1310

I get what your saying, and it's good advice but still incorrect when it comes to the issue of zaan. I can survive zaan, in 1v1 I can go defensive and they won't kill me. It's not about building to survive it, being able to survive something is NOT countering it. in 1vx or outnumbered fights you will not survive that much pressure when a zaan is added into the mix.


My main point that I keep saying is that zaan should not ignore block and los. Other beam attacks do very high damage, but can be blcoked to help absorb some damage or you can use an object to break line of sight, they are both counters, mainly using los.

Zaan basically ignores it's counters, that is not good skillful gameplay, it's basically someone just taking 20k+ dmg from it and just being forced to turtle up, nothing else in the entire game does this, it is the hardest hitting thing in the entire game and has 0 counters, that is not good balance.

Since you posted this I tried zaan again. Believe me, it doesn't go through walls or trees, you can counter it in a sec by moving fast on one direction (opposite from player). It's counter really easy, and I'm a dk with talons and petrify.
Of course I can still kill many players, but so can they kill me.

What is more balanced, for Xv1 to kill that one? Or 1vX killing and survinvg the X?

If you insist on bugs, I volunteer to record gameplay with you with trees and walls between us and see if what you say is correct. Honestly this doesn't happen to me.

Nemeliom wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

@Ender1310

I get what your saying, and it's good advice but still incorrect when it comes to the issue of zaan. I can survive zaan, in 1v1 I can go defensive and they won't kill me. It's not about building to survive it, being able to survive something is NOT countering it. in 1vx or outnumbered fights you will not survive that much pressure when a zaan is added into the mix.


My main point that I keep saying is that zaan should not ignore block and los. Other beam attacks do very high damage, but can be blcoked to help absorb some damage or you can use an object to break line of sight, they are both counters, mainly using los.

Zaan basically ignores it's counters, that is not good skillful gameplay, it's basically someone just taking 20k+ dmg from it and just being forced to turtle up, nothing else in the entire game does this, it is the hardest hitting thing in the entire game and has 0 counters, that is not good balance.

Since you posted this I tried zaan again. Believe me, it doesn't go through walls or trees, you can counter it in a sec by moving fast on one direction (opposite from player). It's counter really easy, and I'm a dk with talons and petrify.
Of course I can still kill many players, but so can they kill me.

What is more balanced, for Xv1 to kill that one? Or 1vX killing and survinvg the X?

I have never, ever broke zaan beam by moving behined an object, every time zaan is on me, I instantly go to los and the beam goes through walls all the time and does full dmg. And no you can't just zoom in one direction because unless the user has disabled movement nothing is stopping them from just following you, it's pretty simple. And of course snares exist or they can just cc when it procs. It should be blockable and break when an object is breaking line of sight. No idea why it ignores the 2 things that should help counter it.

Counters:
Dk: talons and move 8 meters sprint.
Sorc: streak, hurricane sprint.
Nb: cloak, image
Warden: I don't really know, I don't play it.
Templar. Jabalin and move. Tons of heals, sprint.

I will try recording a duel with someone and use both walls and trees.