Another call to nerf Zaan

tannips

I feel that the community was pretty outspoken when it came to the fact that we didn't want to see proc sets anymore. Viper, Red Mountain, Tremorscale - nerfing how strong they were was a great thing for pvp as they were clearly overperforming. With reintroducing proc sets such as Zaan, PvP truly feels like it took one step forward and another two steps back.

Gilvoth

if im stuck and cant move is the only way it is going to kill me.

Starlight_Knight

i agree that proc sets that do as much damage as zan are daft and have gone against what zos tried to / and did achieve with the nerfing of procs eg viper etc, they even nefed things like grothdar lol

Yet now we have this stuff.

My view is that its purely done to get people farming the new dungeons and also to give pve'ers a better chance in pvp.

i do think it will get nerfed as the next new powerful thing gets released - its kinda what they do now. A small example is wardens undodgeable birds, once they rope enough people in they balance it and make it dodge-able again.

lazerlaz

Too many block casting infinite resource builds out there. I'm down to them nerfing zaan but I think defensive builds that still have burst DPS in PvP need to go first.

ak_pvp

lazerlaz wrote: »

Too many block casting infinite resource builds out there. I'm down to them nerfing zaan but I think defensive builds that still have burst DPS in PvP need to go first.

You know what is the best defense in game by scaling and damage reduction?

Cloak.

Anyone using cloak should lose all burst damage and resources.

So you see how silly that sounds, but I guess it's fine if you sub block for cloak, despite the massive damage loss to be able to block and mitigate a lot.

Mihael

ak_pvp wrote: »

lazerlaz wrote: »

Too many block casting infinite resource builds out there. I'm down to them nerfing zaan but I think defensive builds that still have burst DPS in PvP need to go first.

You know what is the best defense in game by scaling and damage reduction?

Cloak.

Anyone using cloak should lose all burst damage and resources.

So you see how silly that sounds, but I guess it's fine if you sub block for cloak, despite the massive damage loss to be able to block and mitigate a lot.

“EvRytHinG pUlLs YuO OuT oF cLoaK”

Mihael

Also nerf zaans specially cos it’s op in bgs

Waffennacht

Nah, zaan doesn't need a Nerf, Magden apparently does...

Don't ask me to explain it...

brandonv516

Zaan will be nerfed when Dragonbones becomes less relevant.

Unfadingsilence

Why do people not like zaan? To be far I currently only play a NB In pvp atm and every 1v1 or 1vX I come across an someone or a few people have zaan it's pretty easy to counter since you just need to get out of range, time your burst with it after it hits you, or easy mode just cloak it. Are other classes having a hard time with it?? Maybe slot invisibility pots those work as well

tannips

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

Why do people not like zaan? To be far I currently only play a NB In pvp atm and every 1v1 or 1vX I come across an someone or a few people have zaan it's pretty easy to counter since you just need to get out of range, time your burst with it after it hits you, or easy mode just cloak it. Are other classes having a hard time with it?? Maybe slot invisibility pots those work as well

It's not as simple as just moving away from it sadly. When using LOS, the beam will clip through terrain and continue to deal damage. The moving out of range doesn't really work that well either because players can easily just move with you.

Hutch679

"Mag warden is way over performing we need to remove all their damage skills and turn them into a dps test dummy." -Wrobel

ascan7

tannips wrote: »

It's not as simple as just moving away from it sadly. When using LOS, the beam will clip through terrain and continue to deal damage.

Then ask for a fix and not for a nerf

ak_pvp

Zaan is pretty darn easy to counter. NB has cloak, sorc has streak, templar has purge. A stamden can heal/tank through it and has naturally pretty high mobility. Only a few classes, a stamDK/Magden for example, will struggle with it. I often mist through it, reducing the damage by a bit, and make some distance. FTR: I don't use it.

Since it acts like a semi on target dot (Though it can be blocked) it ignores LOS, its quite annoying and needs changing.

CaliMade

Im tired of this old worn out tanky with damage line everyone tries to pass off instead of acknowleging a players skill.


At this current point in game there is absolutley no build that can give you high burst High sustain and high mitigation. If you try to build towards that then you will always be dissapointed in your stats.

Most of these “tanky burst” players are just skilled PvPers with a good grasp of usind their strengths and class knowledge to offset their weaknesses

Most people say my mag dk is tanky.

I have 18k physical resist and 23k spell 3000 crit resist with 5 light, no reduced cost block glyphs

Those are pretty average resistance stats for any non heavy spec. im no tankier than you or anyone else.

As a pvper i find my resource managment to be my strongest skill so I very often tune my builds for as little recovery as possible knowing that i can sustain. i run 1300 mag regen in Pvp and im only out of resources when i mess up.

This allows me to stack high damage and have good burst.

Most of these people everyone says have “god builds” are just skilled players who understand this concept.

Now if you cant understand that concept then i completley understand why you cant comprehend how busted procs are.

When you have a set that does alot of your damage for you and isnt greatly infulenced by your max stam/mag and your weapon/spell damage. You create an imbalance in the three main pvp stats(survivability,sustain,burst). These stats can be skewed and adjusted to cater to zaans high damage allowing you to create actual JoAT builds that require no skill to be affective.


IF A PROC SET DEFINES YOUR DAMAGE THEN THAT PROC SET IS TOO STRONG.

Zaan is far too strong for how unavalible counters are on some classes, immobile characters get the biggest hit from it as 10 meters is a huge distance to woddle over as a magdk an it cant be LOS’ed because....reasons.

Theres no desputing it, if a proc set can pull over 10k+ damage on its own in pvp its too powerful.

java34nub18_ESO

Another nerf this nerf that crybaby post.

Mihael

java34nub18_ESO wrote: »

Another nerf this nerf that crybaby post.

Another useless post with no constructive feedback

Mihael

In no cp zaan can hit me for anywhere from 10k-20k it doesn’t matter if it has countered nor player should have this damage from wearing a piece of armor


And really the damage wouldn’t be that big a problem if the counters actually worked as mentioned above it can go through walls, most knowledgeable players will just move with you (this is assuming you are in a 1v1 because outnumbered “moving away” doesn’t work as smoothly” also the range on it bugs out sometimes I was in a bg the other day and I cc the nb run a bit then streak and damn still on me

Adenoma

Beam should break on line of sight. That’s about all that needs to be changed, IMO.

tannips

ascan7 wrote: »

tannips wrote: »

It's not as simple as just moving away from it sadly. When using LOS, the beam will clip through terrain and continue to deal damage.

Then ask for a fix and not for a nerf

It needs a fix and a damage reduction. If it wasn’t overperforming then you wouldn’t see anyone but mag builds running it. There’s a reason you can even find stam builds (nightblade especially from my findings) that run it.

Mr_Nobody

They need to buff back jesus beam so we could execute such trash from 100%.

olsborg

It deals too much dmg imo, simple as that. Regardless of counter to it or not, look at the dmg vs other proccsets.

Feanor

Zaan et al. are in the game for one specific reason: It’s for new or unskilled players to have the feeling of power too when they Xv1 a good player. @Wrobel repeatedly said they wanted new players to feel powerful vs. experienced players. That’s why these things exist. Of course, he apparently didn’t think about what happens when skilled players use these sets. It is what it is. Proc sets are not going to be removed.

sharquez

Zaan is Not overpowered, in fact it fills a niche that is badly needed for ranged magicka characters against classes that can absorb or reflect projectiles hence why it is so strong against them. Leave Zaan alone. Just because something kills you doesnt mean its overpowered.

Rianai

sharquez wrote: »

Zaan is Not overpowered, in fact it fills a niche that is badly needed for ranged magicka characters against classes that can absorb or reflect projectiles hence why it is so strong against them. Leave Zaan alone. Just because something kills you doesnt mean its overpowered.

Zaan is mainly utilized by meele builds. Like wings spamming magdk for example. If ranged magicka builds get their light attacks reflected, they won't proc Zaan (i wonder, if reflected attacks can proc the opponent's set though ...), so your argument doesn't make sense at all.

And if a set on its own can deal enough dmg to kill players, i wouldn't call that balanced, regardless of the proc conditions or me dieing to it or not (as magblade i have tools to counter it, but not every class has that luxury).

ShadowMonarch

Zaan has counters. Here is what I noticed when using it.

Sorcs use streak 1 time. Out of its range.
Templares use clense 1 time. Instantly cancles zaan.
Nightblades use cloak 1 time. Instantly cancles zaan.
Some Dk's can just survive it.
Wardens... you payed extra for your class you don't have a right to speak.

The players I see that actually die to zaan are players that either stay full offensive when it connects to them and don't heal themselves or players that go fully defensive and just try to spam wards or vigor while holding block, they make no attempt to actually cc me and get out of its range, they end up with me + zaan hitting them for everything and cc'ing them while they stand still.

Then there are some players that the second it connects they cc you and leave its range and then they wasted your 20second proc and 2 pieces of your armor, good on them.

TheBonesXXX

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Zaan has counters. Here is what I noticed when using it.

Wardens... you payed extra for your class you don't have a right to speak.

I've played Wardens on tabletop before you even heard the word.

MrDenimChicken

sharquez wrote: »

Zaan is Not overpowered, in fact it fills a niche that is badly needed for ranged magicka characters against classes that can absorb or reflect projectiles hence why it is so strong against them. Leave Zaan alone. Just because something kills you doesnt mean its overpowered.

nah man

I started running zaan on my magblade and quite simply, when zaan proc goes off, it just does way too much damage. Like I almost feel cheap for using it when I see 4-6k dmg ticks pretty soon into the beam.

If my valkyn skoria procs, its like a nice boost to my damage to someone. But if my zaan procs, I know its gg unless they can somehow cancel the beam, and that usually doesn't happen since 10meters is too damn far. They gotta have stealth or cleanse or something, I'm not really sure.

Thunderknuckles

lazerlaz wrote: »

Too many block casting infinite resource builds out there. I'm down to them nerfing zaan but I think defensive builds that still have burst DPS in PvP need to go first.

Yeah, this. It's getting extremely tiresome.

Theignson

Tonight in Cyrodiil: I don’t mind the 4v1 on Sej porch, I’ll just run around the column...WTF?! What is that beam literally going right through a 5 foot thick marble column, what about LOS ??
Death recap: Zaan 10,000+
Ridiculous. Or is there some lore associated with it that makes it penetrate matter without doing any damage? Maybe it is a neutrino beam?

Rianai

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Zaan has counters. Here is what I noticed when using it.

Sorcs use streak 1 time. Out of its range.

Doesn't always work if the enemy sits right on you when Zaan procs and spams gap closer. Had this happen last week - 2 streaks and Zaan unbroken, had to spam shields then because a 3rd streak would have get me killed ...

You are also mentioning cc as counter to Zaan, but completely ignoring that the proc user can CC you too. And with the overall damage being that high, it doesn't need to last the full duration in oder to put ridiculous pressure on the target.