Group Finder 2.0
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El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@starkerealm I agree with you. There are plenty of CP 780s that are rank. There are also lots of lower CP players who are fantastic. Which is why I always give players the benefit of the doubt when I find myself in that situation. And again, we are talking about PUGs and not guild runs.
But after I wrote this yesterday, I jumped into vet EH 2 with a pair of CP 300 guys, a DPS and a healer. It was BRUTAL. They died on the second trash mob, and 2 more times before the first boss. I don't think I have to tell you how that boss battle went.
I'm not saying that they represent CP 300 players as a whole, but if you are here to tell me that this is as frequent an occurrence with CP 700+ players, save it. Because we both know that is not true.0 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭I’d settle for a revamped activity finder that includes Trials with appropriate level and CP restrictions.
I do quite like the idea of a group bulletin type system though where you can advertise what your looking for in more depth. I would be a bit worried about it becoming an elitist fest though.
I'm not that worried about it being elitist. The idea is to encourage coop play across a wide variety of activities. If i want to do world bosses in Auridon, I can just start a group with really no restrictions. If I want to do for example Falkreath skin achievements, I may want to be more selective. Granted this can be done from within a guild too, and if you have enough guild members on at the same time as you then that may be a preferred approach. I may also want to do all normal Craglorns and then the group restrictions would be minimal (like CP160 so members can trade gear). Maybe when MoL is weekly I want to see if I can get a vMoL group together and in that case I'd want players who have cleared it on that toon they are on. That doesn't make them automatically a winning addition to the group, but the chance that they understand the trial is at least reasonable.0 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Start your own guild, add fb page, also discord. Now you can post all your events, times for specific content that you are doing, requirements that must be met for said events and content, roles that are needed, and you get to communicate with your group on the spot and they with you.
You have to grind everything else in this game, grind yourself a good guild and end up with good like minded friends.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You still seem to miss the point that I have explained in detail.
You do not seem to get it that Zos will not put into their grouping tool a means for players to set their own CP restrictions. I explained it already and you clearly missed that.
My apologies. It was not clear from your previous post that you know exactly what ZoS will or will not do. Unlike you, I do not have that information ready at hand.
No worries. I was merely trying to share information to help.0 -
Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »i don't see this working with any kind of efficiency in-game. sounds like stuff you'd wanna set up in a guild.
Oh look, another ESO player who obviously hasn't played another decent MMO in their life.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »i don't see this working with any kind of efficiency in-game. sounds like stuff you'd wanna set up in a guild.
Oh look, another ESO player who obviously hasn't played another decent MMO in their life.
Odd because it does seem he has experience playing MMORPGs as anyone who does would know it is not common, if at all, that someone can set their own experience requirements up in a GF.
It is normal, and customary, that the level of requirements OP is wanting in the GF is what someone goes through forming their own group in a guild.
Also, it helps to keep threads on track by actually speaking to the subject rather than try to belittle the person you are speaking to. It comes off as though the person quoted actually said something well worded and appropriate.Edited by idk on October 16, 2018 6:14PM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »@starkerealm I agree with you. There are plenty of CP 780s that are rank. There are also lots of lower CP players who are fantastic. Which is why I always give players the benefit of the doubt when I find myself in that situation. And again, we are talking about PUGs and not guild runs.
But after I wrote this yesterday, I jumped into vet EH 2 with a pair of CP 300 guys, a DPS and a healer. It was BRUTAL. They died on the second trash mob, and 2 more times before the first boss. I don't think I have to tell you how that boss battle went.
I'm not saying that they represent CP 300 players as a whole, but if you are here to tell me that this is as frequent an occurrence with CP 700+ players, save it. Because we both know that is not true.
To be honest, it happens enough that I've stopped paying attention to CP as a reasonable judgement of anything. I think you're right, higher CP is slightly less likely to be a complete ****show. But, by the same measure, I've seen enough low CP that actually pay attention, and want to learn.
And, the worst part is, I don't think it's that big a difference. I see a larger correlation if they're above cap. Something like 900. I think, maybe, that's because the grind past the spending cap is much more severe, so, someone's less likely to keep going beyond cap, if they've just ground up to 780. But, I'd never suggest setting the actual threshold to 900, because that would just be elitism, and 900 doesn't mean anything.0 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
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It is just my personal experience, but I honestly feel it's 50-50. I have found that, besides just "good" vs. "bad" players, which can be any CP, here are some examples of additional issues I see more often with higher CP folks:starkerealm wrote: »El_Borracho wrote: »@starkerealm I agree with you. There are plenty of CP 780s that are rank. There are also lots of lower CP players who are fantastic. ….
I'm not saying that they represent CP 300 players as a whole, but if you are here to tell me that this is as frequent an occurrence with CP 700+ players, save it. Because we both know that is not true.
To be honest, it happens enough that I've stopped paying attention to CP as a reasonable judgement of anything. I think you're right, higher CP is slightly less likely to be a complete ****show. But, by the same measure, I've seen enough low CP that actually pay attention, and want to learn.- People who've enjoyed a few too many beers before jumping on but think they are good enough to play anyway :P
- PvP people (often obvious by using Emperor/Empress titles, etc.) who never PvE
- "Good" players who cause more issues by not being tolerant of newer players than the newer players trying to learn (auto-kicking, being impatient, being rude, etc.)
- People who do a lot of grinding and bring hybrid builds to normal or easy vet dungeons, and don't at all understand that those strategies don't work in the harder DLC dungeons
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »El_Borracho wrote: »@starkerealm I agree with you. There are plenty of CP 780s that are rank. There are also lots of lower CP players who are fantastic. ….
I'm not saying that they represent CP 300 players as a whole, but if you are here to tell me that this is as frequent an occurrence with CP 700+ players, save it. Because we both know that is not true.
To be honest, it happens enough that I've stopped paying attention to CP as a reasonable judgement of anything. I think you're right, higher CP is slightly less likely to be a complete ****show. But, by the same measure, I've seen enough low CP that actually pay attention, and want to learn.- People who've enjoyed a few too many beers before jumping on but think they are good enough to play anyway :P
- PvP people (often obvious by using Emperor/Empress titles, etc.) who never PvE
Many of the best PvE raiders have former Emperor(es) characters. Some of the very best are great at both aspects because avoiding damage, staying alive, is very important in both aspects.
So beware judging the book by it's title. Granted, many with the title are probably not so PvE friendly.
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CyberSkooma✭✭✭✭✭What OP suggests is over complicated. The more complicated the tool the less useful it will be.
The best means for forming a group is from a tool Zos already gave us that allows us to create all sorts of settings. It is called a guild and for what it seems OP is wanting that is the best way to go.
You are so wrong. There are quite a few MMO's that have intricate group finding systems similar to what OP suggested and they work just fine. Even a more simplified menu would work, as long as it was searchable.
"This is what we are doing. Looking for Players. Please join"
"AD Zone World Boss runs. Anyone can join."
"Chill fishing group. Come fish
"
"vHoF attempt. Need all roles"
All these things that could be listed on a player-controlled LFG menu but for some reason you think it's too complicated. As far as trial groups go, it shouldn't be your concern whether or not these groups are even functional and capable of completion, just don't join them. An LFG system such as this really should exist.
Edited by CyberSkooma on October 18, 2018 6:48PMI play this game a little bit I guess1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CyberSkooma wrote: »What OP suggests is over complicated. The more complicated the tool the less useful it will be.
The best means for forming a group is from a tool Zos already gave us that allows us to create all sorts of settings. It is called a guild and for what it seems OP is wanting that is the best way to go.
You are so wrong. There are quite a few MMO's that have intricate group finding systems similar to what OP suggested and they work just fine. Even a more simplified menu would work, as long as it was searchable.
"This is what we are doing. Looking for Players. Please join"
"AD Zone World Boss runs. Anyone can join."
"Chill fishing group. Come fish "
"vHoF attempt. Need all roles"
All these things that could be listed on a player-controlled LFG menu but for some reason you think it's too complicated. As far as trial groups go, it shouldn't be your concern whether or not these groups are even functional and capable of completion, just don't join them. An LFG system such as this really should exist.
@CyberSkooma
It seems you are the one that it totally wrong. I suggest reading the OP again as you clearly missed very important points and if you read what I have stated you will find I am not even speaking to someone merely being able to add some text.
To simply this. OP specifically stated being able to arbitrarily set and require a minimum CP as well as being able to require specific achievements
You are not even talking to that, but some information that is rather meaningless in comparison.
Edit: I can see Zos adding arenas and trials, normal difficulty, to the GF. But that Zos would set the standards and have the groups form like GF forms groups now.Edited by idk on October 18, 2018 7:44PM0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »[
To be honest, it happens enough that I've stopped paying attention to CP as a reasonable judgement of anything. I think you're right, higher CP is slightly less likely to be a complete ****show. But, by the same measure, I've seen enough low CP that actually pay attention, and want to learn.
And, the worst part is, I don't think it's that big a difference. I see a larger correlation if they're above cap. Something like 900. I think, maybe, that's because the grind past the spending cap is much more severe, so, someone's less likely to keep going beyond cap, if they've just ground up to 780. But, I'd never suggest setting the actual threshold to 900, because that would just be elitism, and 900 doesn't mean anything.
And that's all I'm getting at. Odds are, if you are higher CP, there is a higher chance you have put in the time to better your skills. Not saying its a guarantee of anything. As someone else pointed out, it could also be a dolmen farmer0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »[
To be honest, it happens enough that I've stopped paying attention to CP as a reasonable judgement of anything. I think you're right, higher CP is slightly less likely to be a complete ****show. But, by the same measure, I've seen enough low CP that actually pay attention, and want to learn.
And, the worst part is, I don't think it's that big a difference. I see a larger correlation if they're above cap. Something like 900. I think, maybe, that's because the grind past the spending cap is much more severe, so, someone's less likely to keep going beyond cap, if they've just ground up to 780. But, I'd never suggest setting the actual threshold to 900, because that would just be elitism, and 900 doesn't mean anything.
And that's all I'm getting at. Odds are, if you are higher CP, there is a higher chance you have put in the time to better your skills. Not saying its a guarantee of anything. As someone else pointed out, it could also be a dolmen farmer
Odds, yes, but being at cap does not mean one knows how do to play well, or even decent. When we queue with only 3 we seen plenty at CP cap that seem to lack a clue yet have seen players not near the cap and both pull good DPS (when the pug is DPS) and deal with mechanics well.
It is why raiding guilds start with a DPS requirement or role test like healers healing and keeping buffs/debuffs up. From there they require being able to deal with mechanics well and doing your role.
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El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
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Odds, yes, but being at cap does not mean one knows how do to play well, or even decent. When we queue with only 3 we seen plenty at CP cap that seem to lack a clue yet have seen players not near the cap and both pull good DPS (when the pug is DPS) and deal with mechanics well.
It is why raiding guilds start with a DPS requirement or role test like healers healing and keeping buffs/debuffs up. From there they require being able to deal with mechanics well and doing your role.
Totally agree. Actual DPS output trumps all (in terms of DD). We've all suffered through trials and dungeons with a player while saying to yourself "How is this dude is a 780?" Or the flipside of "This dude is a CP 300? He's good."
While it would be nice to make a DPS test an option to join a PUG through dungeon finder, I don't know how ESO could practically implement it. Have public dummies everyone has to qualify on? Wait a minute....
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CyberSkooma✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »
Odds, yes, but being at cap does not mean one knows how do to play well, or even decent. When we queue with only 3 we seen plenty at CP cap that seem to lack a clue yet have seen players not near the cap and both pull good DPS (when the pug is DPS) and deal with mechanics well.
It is why raiding guilds start with a DPS requirement or role test like healers healing and keeping buffs/debuffs up. From there they require being able to deal with mechanics well and doing your role.
Totally agree. Actual DPS output trumps all (in terms of DD). We've all suffered through trials and dungeons with a player while saying to yourself "How is this dude is a 780?" Or the flipside of "This dude is a CP 300? He's good."
While it would be nice to make a DPS test an option to join a PUG through dungeon finder, I don't know how ESO could practically implement it. Have public dummies everyone has to qualify on? Wait a minute....
When people join random queue's, they know they have an option to be put with players that they may not want to play with. That's just how it goes.... wish people would stop complaining about it. Help 'em out, or go join a guild that you can gather groups through.I play this game a little bit I guess0 -
FatFred✭✭✭WoW has this function called "premade group" since 2014 , when Warlords of Draenor was released .
Zos can just simply copy it.0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭better make a proposal for game that we are able to play and not just facing dark screens at prime time
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »
Odds, yes, but being at cap does not mean one knows how do to play well, or even decent. When we queue with only 3 we seen plenty at CP cap that seem to lack a clue yet have seen players not near the cap and both pull good DPS (when the pug is DPS) and deal with mechanics well.
It is why raiding guilds start with a DPS requirement or role test like healers healing and keeping buffs/debuffs up. From there they require being able to deal with mechanics well and doing your role.
Totally agree. Actual DPS output trumps all (in terms of DD). We've all suffered through trials and dungeons with a player while saying to yourself "How is this dude is a 780?" Or the flipside of "This dude is a CP 300? He's good."
While it would be nice to make a DPS test an option to join a PUG through dungeon finder, I don't know how ESO could practically implement it. Have public dummies everyone has to qualify on? Wait a minute....
You hit the nail on the head in that there really is not a means to filter for competence in GF and there is really no reasonable means Zos can do that.
It is why guilds with PvE group content goals as their focus. Setting ranks, being able to join certain groups and sometimes even joining the guild itself.
It makes forming a group for a dungeon or trial that much easier as everyone's competence is a known factor.
In the end when we choose to use GF we do choose to give up control. Vote kick is the only option as it should be.1 -
Bevik✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »
Odds, yes, but being at cap does not mean one knows how do to play well, or even decent. When we queue with only 3 we seen plenty at CP cap that seem to lack a clue yet have seen players not near the cap and both pull good DPS (when the pug is DPS) and deal with mechanics well.
It is why raiding guilds start with a DPS requirement or role test like healers healing and keeping buffs/debuffs up. From there they require being able to deal with mechanics well and doing your role.
Totally agree. Actual DPS output trumps all (in terms of DD). We've all suffered through trials and dungeons with a player while saying to yourself "How is this dude is a 780?" Or the flipside of "This dude is a CP 300? He's good."
While it would be nice to make a DPS test an option to join a PUG through dungeon finder, I don't know how ESO could practically implement it. Have public dummies everyone has to qualify on? Wait a minute....
You hit the nail on the head in that there really is not a means to filter for competence in GF and there is really no reasonable means Zos can do that.
It is why guilds with PvE group content goals as their focus. Setting ranks, being able to join certain groups and sometimes even joining the guild itself.
It makes forming a group for a dungeon or trial that much easier as everyone's competence is a known factor.
In the end when we choose to use GF we do choose to give up control. Vote kick is the only option as it should be.
Public dummies are actually a good thing. Game can award you with an achievement for hitting 20k dps for example and set the Finder for owning that achievement. Guilds members are not a guarantee for any successful runs and vote kick is also just extending the time for an already long waiting time with the grouping tool plus you can get someone bad again.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »
Odds, yes, but being at cap does not mean one knows how do to play well, or even decent. When we queue with only 3 we seen plenty at CP cap that seem to lack a clue yet have seen players not near the cap and both pull good DPS (when the pug is DPS) and deal with mechanics well.
It is why raiding guilds start with a DPS requirement or role test like healers healing and keeping buffs/debuffs up. From there they require being able to deal with mechanics well and doing your role.
Totally agree. Actual DPS output trumps all (in terms of DD). We've all suffered through trials and dungeons with a player while saying to yourself "How is this dude is a 780?" Or the flipside of "This dude is a CP 300? He's good."
While it would be nice to make a DPS test an option to join a PUG through dungeon finder, I don't know how ESO could practically implement it. Have public dummies everyone has to qualify on? Wait a minute....
You hit the nail on the head in that there really is not a means to filter for competence in GF and there is really no reasonable means Zos can do that.
It is why guilds with PvE group content goals as their focus. Setting ranks, being able to join certain groups and sometimes even joining the guild itself.
It makes forming a group for a dungeon or trial that much easier as everyone's competence is a known factor.
In the end when we choose to use GF we do choose to give up control. Vote kick is the only option as it should be.
Public dummies are actually a good thing. Game can award you with an achievement for hitting 20k dps for example and set the Finder for owning that achievement. Guilds members are not a guarantee for any successful runs and vote kick is also just extending the time for an already long waiting time with the grouping tool plus you can get someone bad again.
I am not arguing that public dummies would not be a good thing. They are unlikely since we can buy them from the crown store (I crafted mine).
However, they still do not demonstrate competent play. Many can pull 20k just standing there with nothing to worry about. In an actual with mechanics many will die a lot or their DPS dwindles.
As for your comment about guilds. It really depends on the goals of the guild leadership and how well they can implement those goals. With a strong guild it is pretty much guaranteed they will clear any 4 man dungeon. Of course there are some guilds that are great for development of players and in those guilds some of the groups formed for the newer DLC dungeons might be more challenging.. Certainly better than anything GF could dream of putting together.
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