Another call to nerf Zaan

BohnT · May 2018

Stibbons wrote: »

Zaan is balanced. Bad pvp players just cannot counter its damage with very low hp/sustain builds. Mainly learn to play issues.

Hahahaha.
Either you play no PvP or you play nb the only class that can somewhat counter it.
Zaan is ridiculously overpowered.
The first 3 hits you take are often more than 10k damage that is what you eat in 2 seconds that is absolutely unbalanced as you need at least 2 seconds to get away 10 m even from a stationary target and no the wearer of Zaan won't be stationary he'll do anything he can do to keep Zaan up and he will be able to do so and you will take 25-30k damage over 5 seconds from a 2pc set.
With ultimates and full offence you won't see people having 5k DPS in pvp but they get that 5k pressure for 5 seconds which is completely unbalanced

Feanor · May 2018

So many people clutching their proc damage sets hard and telling others to „L2P“. The irony. Granted, the set has its shortcomings in open world settings. It’s a whole different story though in close quarter and BGs.

No matter what, sets shouldn’t deal more damage than an ultimate. Under no circumstance whatsoever.

abelsgmx · October 2018

tannips wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Zaan et al. are in the game for one specific reason: It’s for new or unskilled players to have the feeling of power too when they Xv1 a good player. @Wrobel repeatedly said they wanted new players to feel powerful vs. experienced players. That’s why these things exist. Of course, he apparently didn’t think about what happens when skilled players use these sets. It is what it is. Proc sets are not going to be removed.

Which makes absolutely no sense at all. New players shouldn't be able to hop in game and magically be on par with experienced players. It's similar to saying someone with no medical experience should be able to walk into a hospital and begin treating people as effectively as a doctor who's dedicated time to his practice. That's just not reality.

Experienced in how to exploit this game players? How can a player survive vs 10 players? Even new players can do damage

Casul · October 2018

Zaan is typically the only thing that causes me a lot of issues on my tank, the other being mag sorcs. Both are L2P problems on my part.

My option to avoid Zaan is purge so I need to encorporate a way for a more manageable purge if I want to have success against it.

Same against mag sorcs for curse etc.

People should see how they can change themselves before calling for nerfs to a set with plenty of counters available.

thoughtseize · October 2018

I play as a support magicka templar most of the time and only really do pvp. Zaan only kills potatoes or afk players. If I'm too lazy to just range it I just soak up the damage and like 2-3 BoL outheal it. It's not overpowered. just stop playing bad builds and walking in with 15k health then asking for a nerf because you don't know what you're doing.

Flame_of_Hades · October 2018

1. wow we brought back a dead thread on this one.
2. lets say the initial tick hits for 1720. (half what it stays on https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Zaan+Set)
3. 1,720+2,580+3,870+5,805+8707.5+13,061.25 = 35,743.75 damage. (initial hit + 5 seconds = 6 ticks?)
4. even without the last tick, (assuming 5 ticks), that is 22,682.5 damage.
5. the biggest ult i have ever landed (in pvp) in my years of playing this game, was a 20k ferocious leap on a vampire stamBlade that tried to gank me. While i was Emperor

this leaves out all damage buffs and all mitigation(besides battle spirit), but, im going to assume that on adverage, these will cancel out (sometimes you get someone with really high damage buffs v someone with little to no resist, and sometimes you get someone with really low damage buffs v someone with really high resist).

tl:dr this set does more damage than the biggest ult i have ever hit, even if it has counterplay, a 2 piece monster set should not out perform ultimate abilities. Ever

Casul · October 2018

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

1. wow we brought back a dead thread on this one.
2. lets say the initial tick hits for 1720. (half what it stays on https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Zaan+Set)
3. 1,720+2,580+3,870+5,805+8707.5+13,061.25 = 35,743.75 damage. (initial hit + 5 seconds = 6 ticks?)
4. even without the last tick, (assuming 5 ticks), that is 22,682.5 damage.
5. the biggest ult i have ever landed (in pvp) in my years of playing this game, was a 20k ferocious leap on a vampire stamBlade that tried to gank me. While i was Emperor

this leaves out all damage buffs and all mitigation(besides battle spirit), but, im going to assume that on adverage, these will cancel out (sometimes you get someone with really high damage buffs v someone with little to no resist, and sometimes you get someone with really low damage buffs v someone with really high resist).

tl:dr this set does more damage than the biggest ult i have ever hit, even if it has counterplay, a 2 piece monster set should not out perform ultimate abilities. Ever

Although I still think avoiding it is a L2P issue in my opinion I can kinda agree on the damage being a little too punishing, most of the recaps I have with it are pushing 15K+ and I’m 7h, 30k defenses, and minor protection with 38k HP. Maybe having a easier proc time, lower cooldown, and lower damage would be better? Make it so it procs more often but not as intense? What do you think?

Crixus8000 · October 2018

I have 30k resists in no cp and I have had a zaan hit me 23k. That is way over the top. Not only does it do insane damage but it also goes through block and objects, I have had zaan hit me through roofs, walls, trees ect, where is the counter play ? Many say just run, ok lol even when you run you will still take at least half of zaans ticks, already doing massive damage, this is also difficult since most avarage players cc you then second it procs, and even if they don't nothing is stopping them from just following you, making the beam stay on you. So yes 0 counterplay, you can't los, you can't block and you can rarely run.

Flame_of_Hades · October 2018

BuildMan wrote: »

Although I still think avoiding it is a L2P issue in my opinion I can kinda agree on the damage being a little too punishing, most of the recaps I have with it are pushing 15K+ and I’m 7h, 30k defenses, and minor protection with 38k HP. Maybe having a easier proc time, lower cooldown, and lower damage would be better? Make it so it procs more often but not as intense? What do you think?

id agree with this, but i think the best way to fix the damage would be too buff the damage per tick and take away the 50% scaling. exponential damage

TheDoomsdayMonster · October 2018

While Zaan does hit hard, it does have significant counterplay...

They've already reduced the range of the tether to 8m (was once 10m), so nowadays it can broken by something as minor as a Dodge Roll directly into Mist Form...

I do agree that the damage is a bit over the top, but since the range nerf, I only die to it if I'm outnumbered...

1v1 you can render Zaan almost useless...

Crixus8000 · October 2018

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

While Zaan does hit hard, it does have significant counterplay...

They've already reduced the range of the tether to 8m (was once 10m), so nowadays it can broken by something as minor as a Dodge Roll directly into Mist Form...

I do agree that the damage is a bit over the top, but since the range nerf, I only die to it if I'm outnumbered...

1v1 you can render Zaan almost useless...

1v1 most things are balanced though, I don't mind sloads, caluurion and zaan together if it's a 1v1, but it rarely is, it's usually a group with these types of sets and that's when they overperform. Zaan should not ignore block and los imo

Feanor · October 2018

It would be an improvement if the visual was better. I had the damage ticking and the animation start significantly later more than once.

Nemeliom · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I have 30k resists in no cp and I have had a zaan hit me 23k. That is way over the top. Not only does it do insane damage but it also goes through block and objects, I have had zaan hit me through roofs, walls, trees ect, where is the counter play ? Many say just run, ok lol even when you run you will still take at least half of zaans ticks, already doing massive damage, this is also difficult since most avarage players cc you then second it procs, and even if they don't nothing is stopping them from just following you, making the beam stay on you. So yes 0 counterplay, you can't los, you can't block and you can rarely run.

Everything you said is wrong. Half the ticks from zaan isn't the half of 32k, it barely is 8k aprox and from a DoT, which gives time to react.
What you said about roofs, walls, trees, also false. It might have happened once or twice due to lag, but it doesn't work like that (I used zaan, so I can tell).
Once it procs you can: run, los, cloak, stun back and run, etc. Toooooons of counters.

Seriously, I haven't died to zaan in a very long time. And if I do in the future, I won't call for a nerf on something no one uses.

Crixus8000 · October 2018

Nemeliom wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I have 30k resists in no cp and I have had a zaan hit me 23k. That is way over the top. Not only does it do insane damage but it also goes through block and objects, I have had zaan hit me through roofs, walls, trees ect, where is the counter play ? Many say just run, ok lol even when you run you will still take at least half of zaans ticks, already doing massive damage, this is also difficult since most avarage players cc you then second it procs, and even if they don't nothing is stopping them from just following you, making the beam stay on you. So yes 0 counterplay, you can't los, you can't block and you can rarely run.

Everything you said is wrong. Half the ticks from zaan isn't the half of 32k, it barely is 8k aprox and from a DoT, which gives time to react.
What you said about roofs, walls, trees, also false. It might have happened once or twice due to lag, but it doesn't work like that (I used zaan, so I can tell).
Once it procs you can: run, los, cloak, stun back and run, etc. Toooooons of counters.

Seriously, I haven't died to zaan in a very long time. And if I do in the future, I won't call for a nerf on something no one uses.

I never said half of zaan ticks is half of 32k ? I just said even taking a few ticks is still going to be a lot of damage, if a full zaan hit me 23k then even half that is going to be a lot of pressure when your outnumbered.

And no zaan always goes through block and objects for me, all the time it goes through walls when I los it, soul assault does it sometimes but zaan never seems to break unless I make a lot of distance but this is hard because like I said, the other play can simply cc or chase me, it's not like they don't have feet too.

So running and los aren't reliable at all, you say stun, so while zaan is melting me I guess I will wind up a slow dizzy swing then run ? I will have already taken full dmg. And I'm not a nb so I can't cloak. It shouldnt be broken with los and shouldn't go through block, there is no reason for it to ignore these 2 counters.

Ender1310 · October 2018

I dueled a dk the other day. Constantly wings. Couldn't land a light attack or a cc. No zaans procs.
When I did proc it he cc ed me slash turtled up slash broke beam. Zaans was worthless. L2P.

Ender1310 · October 2018

It procs off of light and heavy attacks. DK's can render a NB's zaans worthless. Rolly polly builds of all sorts render Zaans worthless. It only works on a specific set of builds. If your used to spamming your shields or block to win it will kill you. Back up break beam.

As a NB I kite whoever I am fighting away from my shadow. Soon as Zaans procs I teleport. Boom broke beam. If I am stuck I go full defense/resto ultimate usually enough to stay alive during the proc. Unless I am CC'ed but it would have been GG in that case anyway.

Ender1310 · October 2018

Nemeliom wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I have 30k resists in no cp and I have had a zaan hit me 23k. That is way over the top. Not only does it do insane damage but it also goes through block and objects, I have had zaan hit me through roofs, walls, trees ect, where is the counter play ? Many say just run, ok lol even when you run you will still take at least half of zaans ticks, already doing massive damage, this is also difficult since most avarage players cc you then second it procs, and even if they don't nothing is stopping them from just following you, making the beam stay on you. So yes 0 counterplay, you can't los, you can't block and you can rarely run.

Everything you said is wrong. Half the ticks from zaan isn't the half of 32k, it barely is 8k aprox and from a DoT, which gives time to react.
What you said about roofs, walls, trees, also false. It might have happened once or twice due to lag, but it doesn't work like that (I used zaan, so I can tell).
Once it procs you can: run, los, cloak, stun back and run, etc. Toooooons of counters.

Seriously, I haven't died to zaan in a very long time. And if I do in the future, I won't call for a nerf on something no one uses.

Seems like everyone I fight knows how to counter it. DK's wings all day. Other speed builds run circles /roll dodge so often its hard to land light attacks. Only a couple of build it really counters. Those are the builds that are used to shielding themselves through everything and don't know/feel they shouldn't have to ever run. L2 run like every other class/build has to.

Prabooo · October 2018

Awesome. Let's ask the devs to NERF the whole game … LETS NERF LIFE … ANNIHILATE TAMRIEL

#NERFTHEWHOLEGAME
#NERFTAMRIEL
#DESTROYTHEGAME

Crixus8000 · October 2018

Ender1310 wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I have 30k resists in no cp and I have had a zaan hit me 23k. That is way over the top. Not only does it do insane damage but it also goes through block and objects, I have had zaan hit me through roofs, walls, trees ect, where is the counter play ? Many say just run, ok lol even when you run you will still take at least half of zaans ticks, already doing massive damage, this is also difficult since most avarage players cc you then second it procs, and even if they don't nothing is stopping them from just following you, making the beam stay on you. So yes 0 counterplay, you can't los, you can't block and you can rarely run.

Everything you said is wrong. Half the ticks from zaan isn't the half of 32k, it barely is 8k aprox and from a DoT, which gives time to react.
What you said about roofs, walls, trees, also false. It might have happened once or twice due to lag, but it doesn't work like that (I used zaan, so I can tell).
Once it procs you can: run, los, cloak, stun back and run, etc. Toooooons of counters.

Seriously, I haven't died to zaan in a very long time. And if I do in the future, I won't call for a nerf on something no one uses.

Seems like everyone I fight knows how to counter it. DK's wings all day. Other speed builds run circles /roll dodge so often its hard to land light attacks. Only a couple of build it really counters. Those are the builds that are used to shielding themselves through everything and don't know/feel they shouldn't have to ever run. L2 run like every other class/build has to.

I don't have wings, I don't have cloak, I'm heavy armor in no cp, I can't afford to roll 3 times. So yes running is the only viable counter, but zaan doesn't render the user immobile, nothing stops you from just running after me so the beam stays, and nothing stops you from ccing me once it procs, and even if I do run and use los, the beam is still on me.

You just don't seem to admit that it ignoring block and los is broken. I'm not asking for a damage nerf, I just want to have the same counters as other things, zaan should not ignore block, or a damn wall, having run away, turn a corner and zaan go through a wall and my shield is pathetic.

magictucktuck · October 2018

What's with this "don't nerf" campaign goin on the forums lately? People sound like my three year old son. Of course if something is broken or op you can't just buff the whole game untill everything is broken. Not even just talking about zaan but you anti nerf kids should make a logical argument and not just scream like children

DirkRavenclaw · October 2018

Zaan already got nerfed. If it gets even more nerfed i have another useless Monster set, thanks to all the Nerf calls to different sets, i can only play 4 to 5 of my 10 Characters right now, not everything that kills you, be it in PVP or PVE, needs a nerf. Sorry, everytime i check the Forums i read another 5 Nerf this or nerf that Threat, please look at the Toon you like the most and imagine what would happen if the sets you wear would get nerf after nerf. I will begin to create Threads that call for making sets stronger as of right now, we dont have the strong sets that proper work with one class only, its getting boring when my Stam and MAg Toons can be the same, so boring that i started over on PC/EU with a new Journey, just to have the feeling for once not to be a God

Crixus8000 · October 2018

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

Zaan already got nerfed. If it gets even more nerfed i have another useless Monster set

I don't really want it nerfed, just fixed, It ignores block for some reason, and ignores walls, trees, rocks whatever, the beam goes through everything and hits you. Making for very little counterplay other than running a speed build, and guess what is happening to them next patch...

DirkRavenclaw · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

Zaan already got nerfed. If it gets even more nerfed i have another useless Monster set

I don't really want it nerfed, just fixed, It ignores block for some reason, and ignores walls, trees, rocks whatever, the beam goes through everything and hits you. Making for very little counterplay other than running a speed build, and guess what is happening to them next patch...

Yeah, Zaan hitting throught Walls is annoying, but nusually, you can odge roll out of it, sorry, i just read so many Nerf Threads at the Moment and Nerfmire comes next week

Prabooo · October 2018

magictucktuck wrote: »

What's with this "don't nerf" campaign goin on the forums lately? People sound like my three year old son. Of course if something is broken or op you can't just buff the whole game untill everything is broken. Not even just talking about zaan but you anti nerf kids should make a logical argument and not just scream like children

oh, but the nerf campaign that you sustain is so mature and logical. Ok, I will give you a counter for Zaan: Move out of the way. Roll dodge, teleport, sprint, walk... just get out of the miserable 8m this set works.

You are welcome.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2018

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

thanks to all the Nerf calls to different sets, i can only play 4 to 5 of my 10 Characters right now, not everything that kills you, be it in PVP or PVE, needs a nerf. [...] i started over on PC/EU with a new Journey, just to have the feeling for once not to be a God

How does that fit together?

Crixus8000 · October 2018

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

Yeah, Zaan hitting throught Walls is annoying, but nusually, you can odge roll out of it, sorry, i just read so many Nerf Threads at the Moment and Nerfmire comes next week

I hate nerfs too, I get annoyed by a lot in the game but just accept them being strong in some situations. However zaan is just broken, beam type attacks main counter is either blocking or using los to break sight and the beam. Zaan ignores both of these, and it takes 2 dodge rolls to get away from, so around 10k stam to just avoid, and that is ONLY if the user doesn't follow me, and realistically they always will.

Imagine if meteor always went through block, or soul assault going through block and terrain too. Most high damage has counters, zaan is currently ignoring it's counters.

Prabooo · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

DirkRavenclaw wrote: »

Zaan already got nerfed. If it gets even more nerfed i have another useless Monster set

I don't really want it nerfed, just fixed, It ignores block for some reason, and ignores walls, trees, rocks whatever, the beam goes through everything and hits you. Making for very little counterplay other than running a speed build, and guess what is happening to them next patch...

this we can agree. If it is bugged, that is one thing, yet another is calling out for nerfs cause yer all dying in battlegrounds

Prabooo · October 2018

Rianai wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Zaan has counters. Here is what I noticed when using it.

Sorcs use streak 1 time. Out of its range.

Doesn't always work if the enemy sits right on you when Zaan procs and spams gap closer. Had this happen last week - 2 streaks and Zaan unbroken, had to spam shields then because a 3rd streak would have get me killed ...

You are also mentioning cc as counter to Zaan, but completely ignoring that the proc user can CC you too. And with the overall damage being that high, it doesn't need to last the full duration in oder to put ridiculous pressure on the target.

Immovable pots, that skill from heavy armor tree, dk wings … How about situational awereness? Some players just stand there eating up all the damage on 1v1 situations … I admit that if you are facing 1vX you will be stunned/rooted/CC'ed to death... which is what should happen if you are outnumbered, in my opinion

Prabooo · October 2018

Rianai wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Zaan has counters. Here is what I noticed when using it.

Sorcs use streak 1 time. Out of its range.

Doesn't always work if the enemy sits right on you when Zaan procs and spams gap closer. Had this happen last week - 2 streaks and Zaan unbroken, had to spam shields then because a 3rd streak would have get me killed ...

This is a good example. You had all the time to react properly, be it teleporting, shielding, heals, etc. Why ask for a nerf then?

Chilly-McFreeze · October 2018

Prabooo wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

ShadowMonarch wrote: »

Zaan has counters. Here is what I noticed when using it.

Sorcs use streak 1 time. Out of its range.

Doesn't always work if the enemy sits right on you when Zaan procs and spams gap closer. Had this happen last week - 2 streaks and Zaan unbroken, had to spam shields then because a 3rd streak would have get me killed ...

You are also mentioning cc as counter to Zaan, but completely ignoring that the proc user can CC you too. And with the overall damage being that high, it doesn't need to last the full duration in oder to put ridiculous pressure on the target.

Immovable pots, that skill from heavy armor tree, dk wings … How about situational awereness? Some players just stand there eating up all the damage on 1v1 situations … I admit that if you are facing 1vX you will be stunned/rooted/CC'ed to death... which is what should happen if you are overnumbered, in my opinion

Just roll over as soon as the bigger group turns around the corner? gg