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Give every class own major brutality/major sorcery
-
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...Minalan owes me a beer.
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FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's attitudes like this that are resulting in the homogenization of the game.
Equal distribution of literally one of the most basic buffs in the game is not homogenization.
ZOS gave burst heals to Warden, Nightblade, and Sorcerer but you don't see people complaining about those. Templar is the healer class, not them, so why do they need emergency heals? Homogenized!
But when Templars want a simple buff to be more easily accessible like everyone else gets, the sky starts falling. LOL
It is easily accessible. You just dont like the way it's accessed
It's not easily accessible because it requires an out-of-the-way exploration grind.
Go complain in the shield threads and let the Templars discuss serious matters. lol
Its hard to take you "seriously" when you think getting Mage Guild to level 4 is a grind
It's hard to take any Sorcerers seriously at all but I've entertained your rambling this long, haven't I?
Man, you're just losing credibility by the post!
You literally had none to begin with, and you STILL have yet to provide a fair argument that proves Templars don't need their own source of these very important buffs in order to compete in certain content and in PvP.
My argument is that Sorcerers having Crit Surge which gives Sorcerey AND a HoT, making them a lot more viable in vMA and vDSA, etc. than Templars and DKs because both of these classes' heals are based entirely on being in melee range, which is incredibly imbalanced.
But by all means continue to embarrass yourself.Edited by FlamingBeard on October 8, 2018 9:58PM1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's attitudes like this that are resulting in the homogenization of the game.
Equal distribution of literally one of the most basic buffs in the game is not homogenization.
ZOS gave burst heals to Warden, Nightblade, and Sorcerer but you don't see people complaining about those. Templar is the healer class, not them, so why do they need emergency heals? Homogenized!
But when Templars want a simple buff to be more easily accessible like everyone else gets, the sky starts falling. LOL
It is easily accessible. You just dont like the way it's accessed
It's not easily accessible because it requires an out-of-the-way exploration grind.
Go complain in the shield threads and let the Templars discuss serious matters. lol
Its hard to take you "seriously" when you think getting Mage Guild to level 4 is a grind
It's hard to take any Sorcerers seriously at all but I've entertained your rambling this long, haven't I?
Man, you're just losing credibility by the post!
You literally had none to begin with, and you STILL have yet to provide a fair argument that proves Templars don't need their own source of these very important buffs in order to compete in certain content and in PvP.
But by all means continue to embarrass yourself.
Well, let's see. I've given the argument that Entropy exists.
That's basically all the argument I need.Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
The funny thing is that his argument about resto shield is, in and of itself, a strawmanValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's attitudes like this that are resulting in the homogenization of the game.
Equal distribution of literally one of the most basic buffs in the game is not homogenization.
ZOS gave burst heals to Warden, Nightblade, and Sorcerer but you don't see people complaining about those. Templar is the healer class, not them, so why do they need emergency heals? Homogenized!
But when Templars want a simple buff to be more easily accessible like everyone else gets, the sky starts falling. LOL
It is easily accessible. You just dont like the way it's accessed
It's not easily accessible because it requires an out-of-the-way exploration grind.
Go complain in the shield threads and let the Templars discuss serious matters. lol
Its hard to take you "seriously" when you think getting Mage Guild to level 4 is a grind
It's hard to take any Sorcerers seriously at all but I've entertained your rambling this long, haven't I?
Man, you're just losing credibility by the post!
You literally had none to begin with, and you STILL have yet to provide a fair argument that proves Templars don't need their own source of these very important buffs in order to compete in certain content and in PvP.
But by all means continue to embarrass yourself.
Well, let's see. I've given the argument that Entropy exists.
That's basically all the argument I need.Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
The funny thing is that his argument about resto shield is, in and of itself, a strawman
Entropy does not equal Crit Surge's usefulness whatsoever.
Templar and DK need better ranged survival capabilities to be relevant in content as damage dealers.
Sorcerers can run tri-potions with Crit Surge and have all the buffs they need plus a HoT for solo content. That's quite unfair.Edited by FlamingBeard on October 8, 2018 10:01PM1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »It's attitudes like this that are resulting in the homogenization of the game.
Equal distribution of literally one of the most basic buffs in the game is not homogenization.
ZOS gave burst heals to Warden, Nightblade, and Sorcerer but you don't see people complaining about those. Templar is the healer class, not them, so why do they need emergency heals? Homogenized!
But when Templars want a simple buff to be more easily accessible like everyone else gets, the sky starts falling. LOL
It is easily accessible. You just dont like the way it's accessed
It's not easily accessible because it requires an out-of-the-way exploration grind.
Go complain in the shield threads and let the Templars discuss serious matters. lol
Its hard to take you "seriously" when you think getting Mage Guild to level 4 is a grind
It's hard to take any Sorcerers seriously at all but I've entertained your rambling this long, haven't I?
Man, you're just losing credibility by the post!
You literally had none to begin with, and you STILL have yet to provide a fair argument that proves Templars don't need their own source of these very important buffs in order to compete in certain content and in PvP.
But by all means continue to embarrass yourself.
Well, let's see. I've given the argument that Entropy exists.
That's basically all the argument I need.Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
The funny thing is that his argument about resto shield is, in and of itself, a strawman
Entropy does not equal Crit Surge's usefulness whatsoever.
Templar and DK need better ranged survival capabilities to be relevant in content as damage dealers.
Sorcerers can run tri-potions with Crit Surge and have all the buffs they need plus a HoT for solo content. That's quite unfair.
Sooo, your argument suddenly shifts from needing Major Sorcery and Brutality to specifically needing Surge?
Because Molten and Sap are also about as useful as Entropy, and most good players would not slot any of the 3 except for vMA in the case of Sorcs.
You say people need more solo survivability but the only piece of content that is both solo and at least somewhat difficult is vMA...and guess what? Sorcs don't even dominate there anymore lol.
Are you saying you need survivability to run around in Stonefalls?Edited by Valrien on October 8, 2018 10:10PMValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
I missed something, tell me again why you are for every class having access to this skill except one? Also, what's your class?
@Valrien
Also, it was a strawman argument? Duh, tell me something I didn't know. Glad you are able to tell the difference, now stop doing it.Edited by Sevn on October 8, 2018 10:40PMThere is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am pretty much against the homogenization of the game which his pretty much what OP is asking for.
1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am pretty much against the homogenization of the game which his pretty much what OP is asking for.
How is asking for the one class who doesn't have it equal homogenization of classes? That is a ridiculous assessment and if that's all the naysayers can think of you all have a weak argument and should just stop.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
I missed something, tell me again why you are for every class having access to this skill except one? Also, what's your class?
@Valrien
Also, it was a strawman argument? Duh, tell me something I didn't know. Glad you are able to tell the difference, now stop doing it.
Hardener Ward/Harness Magicka > Healing Ward and they are often stacked
But
Entropy == Molten == Sap < Surge/Netch and are never stacked
I'm sorry, but I dont see how the situation you outline is the same, since Entropy is effectively just as good/bad as half of the class options.
Your example failed. Sorry to hear thatValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am pretty much against the homogenization of the game which his pretty much what OP is asking for.
How is asking for the one class who doesn't have it equal homogenization of classes? That is a ridiculous assessment and if that's all the naysayers can think of you all have a weak argument and should just stop.
Because every class has something missing that all the others get. If you were to remove this gap for one, you'd have to do it for all the others..which is a huge move to homogenisation.
And once that precedent is set, people will start saying 'how is it xxx gets yyy when nobody else does? ', and next thing you know, the unique class abilities disappear. In fact it's already happening.
If you want to know my class, check my signature.Edited by Biro123 on October 8, 2018 11:10PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Entropy is fine if you don't want to use pots. There is one homogenization change I wouldn't mind in that all skills that grant "X" major buff that it all last the same length across the board.
Edited by karekiz on October 8, 2018 11:14PM2 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand the argument here.. Templar has things other classes don't have too. If you fight for this to be added (even though there are PLENTY of options available.) the other classes deserve something too and at that point every class will be the same.
Templar does not have a class buff with major brutality/sorcery, other classes do. Alright.
Templars/Wardens/DK's have major savagery, other classes don't. Cool.
Templars have minor fracture, other classes don't. Oh.
Stam DK's/Sorc's do not have a class spamable, other classes do. Wait a second..
Wardens/Nightblades have minor berserk, other classes don't. Oh HELL no.
DKs/Nightblades/Wardens have major fracture, other classes don't. Hmmmm.
Do you notice a pattern? These are huge buffs/debuffs, some can be obtained through other universal skills and some can't. Does that mean every class should all have a spammable, major savagary, minor/major fracture. NO. You are on the road to class homogenization to the point where the only difference between the classes is animation colouring.
Minor berserk and major fracture are huge dps buffs/debuffs but many people don't ask for them in their classkit because it wouldn't really make a big difference, you get both these in group content.. They're isn't even any option in the game to receive these 2 buffs universally (Not counting Camo Hunter) like major brutality/sorcery but I don't see people asking for it.
Major Savagery, Major brutality and Major Endurance are generally seen as redundant to many skills in the game because of how accessible they are through the potion that provides them. In competitive group pve, you will never see a DD use another potion because there is nothing better.
PvP is a different ball game. If I want to play a bow/bow build as a stam nightblade, I either use a pot or I GTFO, but they have other buffs other classes don't have.
If I played a templar I'd be asking for major fracture or minor berserk instead, you can already access major sorcery/brutality.Edited by MashmalloMan on October 8, 2018 11:39PM2 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭So according to those who are against the major buffs in Templars kit because of class diversity is so important having to choke a pot every 40 seconds is what makes it fun being a templar?PC,EU, EP
Der-über-Zwerge-springt (Argonian, Magplar), Surtur Velothi (Dunmer, Magdk), Jaqene H'ghar (Imperial, Stamblade), Puppyslayer (Orc, Stamdk), Dagoth Era (Dunmer, Magblade), Æthmon Trevas (Altmer, Magsorc), Der-Zuletzt-Lacht (Argonian, Magden), Sir-Lanzeflott (Redguard, Stamplar)2 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
I missed something, tell me again why you are for every class having access to this skill except one? Also, what's your class?
@Valrien
Also, it was a strawman argument? Duh, tell me something I didn't know. Glad you are able to tell the difference, now stop doing it.
Hardener Ward/Harness Magicka > Healing Ward and they are often stacked
But
Entropy == Molten == Sap < Surge/Netch and are never stacked
I'm sorry, but I dont see how the situation you outline is the same, since Entropy is effectively just as good/bad as half of the class options.
Your example failed. Sorry to hear that
It was supposed to fail. Duh.
@Marshall
Than take it away from all the classes since it is readily available for all. Problem solved. Just up the damage by 20% and call it a day. What say you to that? I did notice a pattern, that every class except templars have class access to major brut/sorc, a fundamental part of a players dps.
@biro
Nope, can't see it on mobile. Why would I ask you if I can clearly see it?Edited by Sevn on October 9, 2018 12:46AMThere is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
I missed something, tell me again why you are for every class having access to this skill except one? Also, what's your class?
@Valrien
Also, it was a strawman argument? Duh, tell me something I didn't know. Glad you are able to tell the difference, now stop doing it.
Hardener Ward/Harness Magicka > Healing Ward and they are often stacked
But
Entropy == Molten == Sap < Surge/Netch and are never stacked
I'm sorry, but I dont see how the situation you outline is the same, since Entropy is effectively just as good/bad as half of the class options.
Your example failed. Sorry to hear that
It was supposed to fail. Duh.
@Marshall
Than take it away from all the classes since it is readily available for all. Problem solved. Just up the damage by 20% and call it a day. What say you to that? I did notice a pattern, that every class except templars have class access to major brut/sorc, a fundamental part of a players dps.
@biro
Nope, can't see it on mobile. Why would I ask you if I can clearly see it?
I don't think many who are actually using these abilities would mind needing to slot Entropy instead, since most competent players will use a potion.
As for Brutality, classes that don't have a stam spammable will often use Hidden Blade as their spam if they don't care enough to use pots and it really doesn't lose a lot of damage compared to Crushing Weapon.
In short, no one would actually care if Major Sorcery and Brutality became locked to Werewolf, Two Handed, Dual Wield, and Mage Guild as long as it was also available via potionsEdited by Valrien on October 9, 2018 1:57AMValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
I missed something, tell me again why you are for every class having access to this skill except one? Also, what's your class?
@Valrien
Also, it was a strawman argument? Duh, tell me something I didn't know. Glad you are able to tell the difference, now stop doing it.
Hardener Ward/Harness Magicka > Healing Ward and they are often stacked
But
Entropy == Molten == Sap < Surge/Netch and are never stacked
I'm sorry, but I dont see how the situation you outline is the same, since Entropy is effectively just as good/bad as half of the class options.
Your example failed. Sorry to hear that
It was supposed to fail. Duh.
@Marshall
Than take it away from all the classes since it is readily available for all. Problem solved. Just up the damage by 20% and call it a day. What say you to that? I did notice a pattern, that every class except templars have class access to major brut/sorc, a fundamental part of a players dps.
@biro
Nope, can't see it on mobile. Why would I ask you if I can clearly see it?
I don't think many who are actually using these abilities would mind needing to slot Entropy instead, since most competent players will use a potion.
As for Brutality, classes that don't have a stam spammable will often use Hidden Blade as their spam if they don't care enough to use pots and it really doesn't lose a lot of damage compared to Crushing Weapon.
In short, no one would actually care if Major Sorcery and Brutality became locked to Werewolf, Two Handed, Dual Wield, and Mage Guild as long as it was also available via potions
A player is now incompetent if he doesn't run pots for major brut/sorc. Got it. Gotta love when folks resort to personal attacks due to their inability to actually make an argument.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
I missed something, tell me again why you are for every class having access to this skill except one? Also, what's your class?
@Valrien
Also, it was a strawman argument? Duh, tell me something I didn't know. Glad you are able to tell the difference, now stop doing it.
Hardener Ward/Harness Magicka > Healing Ward and they are often stacked
But
Entropy == Molten == Sap < Surge/Netch and are never stacked
I'm sorry, but I dont see how the situation you outline is the same, since Entropy is effectively just as good/bad as half of the class options.
Your example failed. Sorry to hear that
It was supposed to fail. Duh.
@Marshall
Than take it away from all the classes since it is readily available for all. Problem solved. Just up the damage by 20% and call it a day. What say you to that? I did notice a pattern, that every class except templars have class access to major brut/sorc, a fundamental part of a players dps.
@biro
Nope, can't see it on mobile. Why would I ask you if I can clearly see it?
I don't think many who are actually using these abilities would mind needing to slot Entropy instead, since most competent players will use a potion.
As for Brutality, classes that don't have a stam spammable will often use Hidden Blade as their spam if they don't care enough to use pots and it really doesn't lose a lot of damage compared to Crushing Weapon.
In short, no one would actually care if Major Sorcery and Brutality became locked to Werewolf, Two Handed, Dual Wield, and Mage Guild as long as it was also available via potions
A player is now incompetent if he doesn't run pots for major brut/sorc. Got it. Gotta love when folks resort to personal attacks due to their inability to actually make an argument.
I thought this was established?
It's not a personal attack. It is a fact that people who want to do good DPS will use potions. They're a quintessential part of every PvE build.
It's nonsense to assume that competent players don't use potions.
Frankly, I'm surprised you think stating a key difference between a competent and incompetent player is considered a personal attackValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Totally agree. Gotta love the folks who play a class with it available through their class abilities tell everyone else just to suck it up and do what they don't have to like waste a potion to get the most out of your dps, and of course they'll say they don't even use their class one as well.
So disingenuous some of you are, just to keep an advantage over others.
Not at all.. I've pretty much dumped sorc now - but I use it as an example because its the class I best understand.
The point is that every class has deficiencies.. Some have no spammable, some miss certain buffs, some miss certain debuffs, some are short on dots, or heals, or cc, or mobility... etc.. etc.. Many of which can be obtained from non-class lines, gear or pots anyway.
And Zos keep making change after change which makes them more and more 'samey' Look at the latest major expedition changes for an example.. I just can't believe that people want the classes to be MORE similar to each other.
As someone said earlier, if it keeps going this way, we'll just end up with 5 identical classes that just have different colours associated with them. I certainly don't want that!
I don't like the trend of sameyness either (and not incidentally, major expedition was the last thing templars politely pointed out they'd like access to also, please, didn't get it, and now it's going to suck for everybody instead, so that worked out well didn't it). This idea they seem to have that frags = shalks = whip, and the flat 4 seconds of expedition, and in general all kinds of iconic class skills being blandified or made useless (RIP refreshing path). Do not like. Every class shall have a tank skill line, a healing skill line, and a damage skill line, because that's working out SO well for wardens: do not like.
But there's a difference between homogenization and basic parity. If four of the five classes have class-skill access to a major buff and only one does not, that's just an oversight that needs to be corrected, and it's perfectly reasonable to keep pointing that out until it is.
Thank you, didn't think this really needed to be pointed out. 4 out of 5 have it, but these opponents are acting like giving templars, the only class without it and yes my main class is somehow making all the classes samey. Ridiculous, though I should not be surprised at sorcs being for another class being at a disadvantage.
3/5 no one uses sap essence to get it as a nightblade.
Irrelevant if players use it or not, it's available to them via class abilities. If that's the case take it away from all the classes and see how much you all like being forced to run pots for it or slot entropy just to get it. Clearly you are only interested in maintaining an advantage over another class.
If I'm using brut/sorc pots I'm not using immovable pots which are extremely useful to reset a fight after getting snared, nor can I use a speed pot. Nope I'm popping pots just to gain access to what other classes have readily available to them.
Why did so many sorcs complain about a cast time getting added to their class shields? The one from the restoration line wasn't getting one, why didn't you all just switch to using a resto staff and slot that shield? What's good for the goose is good for the gander am I right?
Wish folks would stop with the strawman arguments.
We'll, that would obviously be more homogenisation, not less...
I missed something, tell me again why you are for every class having access to this skill except one? Also, what's your class?
@Valrien
Also, it was a strawman argument? Duh, tell me something I didn't know. Glad you are able to tell the difference, now stop doing it.
Hardener Ward/Harness Magicka > Healing Ward and they are often stacked
But
Entropy == Molten == Sap < Surge/Netch and are never stacked
I'm sorry, but I dont see how the situation you outline is the same, since Entropy is effectively just as good/bad as half of the class options.
Your example failed. Sorry to hear that
It was supposed to fail. Duh.
@Marshall
Than take it away from all the classes since it is readily available for all. Problem solved. Just up the damage by 20% and call it a day. What say you to that? I did notice a pattern, that every class except templars have class access to major brut/sorc, a fundamental part of a players dps.
@biro
Nope, can't see it on mobile. Why would I ask you if I can clearly see it?
@Sevn
Stamblade, Stamplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc.
Currently maining stamblade (which was originally a magblade).
Stamsorc was originally full stam, but is currently a stam-focussed hybrid.
Magsorc was my old main.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭lucky_dutch wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Homogenisation isnt a really great idea... if its the same thing but just colour differences, then its a bad game.
In abilities but not in buffs.
Everyone knows this is practically a must-have for any stam build so all that happens if you play one that doesn't have access to it is you pick 2h and get forward momentum.
Or pop a potion like everyone does anyways?
I was thinking the same thing1 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »FlamingBeard wrote: »lucky_dutch wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Homogenisation isnt a really great idea... if its the same thing but just colour differences, then its a bad game.
In abilities but not in buffs.
Everyone knows this is practically a must-have for any stam build so all that happens if you play one that doesn't have access to it is you pick 2h and get forward momentum.
Or pop a potion like everyone does anyways?
You always don´t want to use specific potion and they are pretty expensive.
Not really. Spell Damage/Weapon Damage options are pretty cheap
Forcing players who pick a certain class to use potions or farm Mages Guild for a Major buff that's extremely necessary in all gameplay is not fair, nor is it balanced.
Sorcery and Brutality should DEFINITELY be homogenized throughout all classes.
"Farm"
Dude it's a level 4 skill. That's not really farming.
That's like saying it's not fair that you have to level up Storm Calling to get Surge
Surge is tied with Netch for best source of Major Brutality/Sorcery in the entire game...
So I'm not sure what you mean by comparing having to grind some mobs for 30 minutes for Surge, compared to hours of book hunting for Mages Guild levels, even with the help of Lorebooks add-on.
Sorcerers and Wardens receive A LOT more benefit from leveling their own sources of Brutality and Sorcery compared to Templar which gets almost no benefit except the Sorcery buff itself from using Entropy.
It's a bit more than 30 minutes to get Surge, and a lot less to get Entropy.
I'd say that they take almost the same amount of time, actually.
You're still disingenuously comparing Surge to Entropy.
Surge is magnitudes better because 1) doesn't require a target 2) heals you every time you critically strike
Surge is one of the biggest reasons that Sorcerer is so much better than every other class for veteran Maelstrom for goodness' sake. LOL
If you look at the scores, you'll see that the Maelstrom bit actually isn't true. That's not the point though.
The point is that the thread is needlessly asking for things that are already provided to players in the form of global skills and potions.
Most Sorcs don't use Surge unless they're in Maelstrom. Basically no DK uses Molten. No Nightblade uses Sap. And Wardens use Netch, but not for the buffs
There's a reason for that. Potions are just superior. There's no way one can take these requests seriously with the amount of options there are in the game, since if you really care about your DPS you'll be using potions anyways.
It's hard to say "I care about my DPS just enough to want Brutality/Sorcery, but not enough to use a potion. I'd rather waste a bar slot to cripple my build"
Scores mean absolutely nothing when comparing classes in vMA.
Compare the number of players per class clearing that arena.
This is not a difficult concept to understand nor should you continue arguing against Templar getting an in-class source of Brutality/Sorcery simply based on... nothing really except you just don't want Templar to have a better source of those buffs like your precious Sorcerer gets. lol
I have run through vMA countless times on both my magsorc and my magplar, and guess which one had a much easier time and the one I ended up using for farming?
If you guessed "Sorcerer" you'd be correct!
You know why? Because I can stay 20+ meters away from every boss and mob in there and still receive constant healing, contrary to magplar which is limited to melee range for Puncturing Sweep to heal.
You can't compare the number of players 'per class' that clear it. Why? Because each class is really comprised of two classes ... one stamina and one magica -- they generally wear different armor, equip different abilities/skills, and invest differently in their resource pools, and they play the game in fundamentally different ways.1 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »In PVP- I actually like to free up as many skills as possible on my MagPlar. I run Rattlecage (arcane jewelry) and Mighty Chudan for the Major buffs they both provide. Just my 2 cents worth.
Also- I really wouldn't mind if they gave Major Sorcery to a templar in some other way.
...I just wish ZOS would give my mDK an execute.
Please give a DK an execute!
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Stibbons✭✭✭✭✭Seems like i used aggro skill on few sorcerers
Seems like they are so butthurt because shield nerfs and no other class cannot have major sorcery. They must use potions or entrophy!!!! Raa!!! 
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Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seems like i used aggro skill on few sorcerers Seems like they are so butthurt because shield nerfs and no other class cannot have major sorcery. They must use potions or entrophy!!!! Raa!!!
Yes, it's totally not because it's a nonsense request and a waste of time for everyone involved.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Stibbons✭✭✭✭✭Seems like i used aggro skill on few sorcerers Seems like they are so butthurt because shield nerfs and no other class cannot have major sorcery. They must use potions or entrophy!!!! Raa!!!
Yes, it's totally not because it's a nonsense request and a waste of time for everyone involved.
No you babble nonsense. I farmed rice in your head
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