What's up with all the Major Expedition nerfs?

Pelican · October 2018

The cause of the current speedpocalypse is swift, not major expedition. There was never an issue of people moving too fast before swift was introduced in summerset.
So the solution is simple: nerf swift and be done with that. There's no need to nerf major exp all across the board, like why does chains, quick cloak and bird of prey need a nerf again? 3.2k magicka for a 4s speed buff, seriously?

code65536 · October 2018

There's no need to nerf Swift, either.

It's only the stacking of Swift with Expedition that was the problem. These nerfs hurt anyone who used only Swift or only Expedition and didn't stack the two.

Just lower the in-combat speed cap. Easy, clean solution that doesn't require nerfhammering dozens of different things and changing the way things have worked for years.

IAVITNI · October 2018

code65536 wrote: »

There's no need to nerf Swift, either.

It's only the stacking of Swift with Expedition that was the problem. These nerfs hurt anyone who used only Swift or only Expedition and didn't stack the two.

Just lower the in-combat speed cap. Easy, clean solution that doesn't require nerfhammering dozens of different things and changing the way things have worked for years.

Too bad your idea makes too much sense.

Expedition nerfs will go live, then 4 patches later they will implement an in-combat movement speed cap but not revert the speed changes.

I love how they nerfed magicka sources of Major Expedition as if people were whining about Magdens zipping around the map.

And how they nerf magsorcs primary defensive, forcing the class towards mobility and then nerf mobility.

Maybe they code with the lights off and that's why they can't see how there changes are so short-sighted

Lord-Otto · October 2018

Swift was a bit too strong and needed tuning. Major Expedition did not.

Real issue that doesn't get handled, of course, is the atrocious targetting system in this game. Even briefly mentioned in patch notes.
In other words, this is another band-aid fix. Or, more like an amputation of the leg to cure the toe pain.

brandonv516 · October 2018

Some sources of Major Expedition have been 4s for the longest time and we have adapted.

(i.e. Blur - Cost 3780 Magicka)

This just brings everyone else in line.

Lord-Otto · October 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Some sources of Major Expedition have been 4s for the longest time and we have adapted.

(i.e. Blur - Cost 3780 Magicka)

This just brings everyone else in line.

This panits a very concerning picture. There were design reasons why some skills provide different lengths of buffs. Trying to streamline everything might mess up balancing between classes. What makes the "mobile" class sorc more mobile, if the "stand your ground" class DK gets the same Expedition buff?

_Ahala_ · October 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Some sources of Major Expedition have been 4s for the longest time and we have adapted.

(i.e. Blur - Cost 3780 Magicka)

This just brings everyone else in line.

So your telling me Bird of Prey needed a nerf to be in line with Blur... In essence that Magden needed a nerfed to be in line with Magblade... umm ok... Is Magden gonna be getting spammable invisibility, a gap closer, ranged roots, ranged snares, unique untyped speed buffs, and a location recall ability now to make up for its lack of mobility... I think zos should undo the change to Bird of Prey as all classes play differently and the ability to maintain expedition as a mag class is what makes Magden unique and fun to play

UppGRAYxDD · October 2018

Why the major expedition/swift nerfs?Cause ppl are tired of chasing one enemy with 3 swift jewelry and major/minor expedition buffs across the entirety of Cyrodil to kill them. It was bad enough just with the usual lag, but add in super speed and you can even touch em sometimes...I feel the needs were on point. Losing 4% from swift on each piece of jewelry isn’t going to kill swift built characters...

Illuvatarr · October 2018

Cap movement speed increase at 30 percent. Doesn’t matter how you get there, that’s the hard cap. Simple fix.

Joy_Division · October 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

Some sources of Major Expedition have been 4s for the longest time and we have adapted.

(i.e. Blur - Cost 3780 Magicka)

This just brings everyone else in line.

Blur's main benefit was Evasion. The only function casting Bird of Prey will grant next patch is 4 seconds expedition

brandonv516 · October 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Some sources of Major Expedition have been 4s for the longest time and we have adapted.

(i.e. Blur - Cost 3780 Magicka)

This just brings everyone else in line.

Blur's main benefit was Evasion. The only function casting Bird of Prey will grant next patch is 4 seconds expedition

Sorry I meant specifically Double Take.

Bird of Prey will still have a passive function for slotting it (which I don't really like personally). I'd prefer to backbar it.

brandonv516 · October 2018

_Ahala_ wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Some sources of Major Expedition have been 4s for the longest time and we have adapted.

(i.e. Blur - Cost 3780 Magicka)

This just brings everyone else in line.

So your telling me Bird of Prey needed a nerf to be in line with Blur... In essence that Magden needed a nerfed to be in line with Magblade... umm ok... Is Magden gonna be getting spammable invisibility, a gap closer, ranged roots, ranged snares, unique untyped speed buffs, and a location recall ability now to make up for its lack of mobility... I think zos should undo the change to Bird of Prey as all classes play differently and the ability to maintain expedition as a mag class is what makes Magden unique and fun to play

It doesn't make them unique. I would say Magplars are unique in that they are a magic class without a source to maintain Major Expedition. That's unique, in a bad way though.

Jaxaxo · October 2018

But since each patch they increase dmg, make sets that are stronger and stronger (and not really need any brain to use them) they're slowly killing any type of smallscale/solo gameplay. Like most lots of ppl said, there wasnt any problem with major expedition/movement speed pre summerset, pre swift. Then they introduced thing that make it broken, and now they're nerfing almost all movement speed to ground. I expect speed pots to be 15,7 sec uptime. And with this what's the reason to run them? Dmg is being increased, and now last way to mitigate them, line of sight, is being nerfed, cuz they introduced sth so strong, that they cant do anything else? Like wth?

ZarkingFrued · October 2018

Seriously the mag dk nerf to chains was uncalled for. Literally the only mobility the class has. Why these sweeping across the board nerfs?

Bhelen · October 2018

There seems to be a pattern of buffing stuff so they have an excuse to Nerf it. Nobody was complaining about movement speed until swift was introduced. A better way to approach the problem would be to cap movement speed. So that people could use major expedition OR swift and not stack both.

The nerf to forward momentum is much more concerning. If you ask me its snare spam that needs to be looked at, so that people without momentum can engage in combat without being perma slowed.

BlackMadara · October 2018

Bhelen wrote: »

There seems to be a pattern of buffing stuff so they have an excuse to Nerf it. Nobody was complaining about movement speed until swift was introduced. A better way to approach the problem would be to cap movement speed. So that people could use major expedition OR swift and not stack both.

The nerf to forward momentum is much more concerning. If you ask me its snare spam that needs to be looked at, so that people without momentum can engage in combat without being perma slowed.

There is already a movement speed cap, it is just easier to get there compared to the past. I agree with the nerf to swift and major expo, although I think numbers should be changed. Swift should probably be 8%, so 3 swift is on pts is a bit better than 2 on live. Major expo duration makes since, have a plan for such an increase in speed instead of just having it there almost all the time.

GreenHere · October 2018

code65536 wrote: »

There's no need to nerf Swift, either.

It's only the stacking of Swift with Expedition that was the problem. These nerfs hurt anyone who used only Swift or only Expedition and didn't stack the two.

Just lower the in-combat speed cap. Easy, clean solution that doesn't require nerfhammering dozens of different things and changing the way things have worked for years.

I proposed basically just that in my thread over here, but no way to tell if the idea will get any real traction...

Do you know a way to make sure the right people at least see the idea to consider it, @code65536 ?

Ariades_swe · October 2018

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Cap movement speed increase at 30 percent. Doesn’t matter how you get there, that’s the hard cap. Simple fix.

This guy gets it.
Its fair to all classes that way.

IAVITNI · October 2018

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Cap movement speed increase at 30 percent. Doesn’t matter how you get there, that’s the hard cap. Simple fix.

This guy gets it.
Its fair to all classes that way.

Make it 40%-50%. 30% is an indirect nerf to stam sorcs. 40% is still technically an indirect nerf to stam sorcs, but that depends on Swift trait values. 46% is probably ideal since stam sorcs could still benefit from Swift.

GreenHere · October 2018

IAVITNI wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Cap movement speed increase at 30 percent. Doesn’t matter how you get there, that’s the hard cap. Simple fix.

This guy gets it.
Its fair to all classes that way.

Make it 40%-50%. 30% is an indirect nerf to stam sorcs. 40% is still technically an indirect nerf to stam sorcs, but that depends on Swift trait values. 46% is probably ideal since stam sorcs could still benefit from Swift.

Agreed; it should fall somewhere in the 40-50% range, as it was before Swift existed. People just didn't realize it, because those speed builds weren't as popular or problematic back then.

30% is a lazy and poorly thought out solution as a soft speed cap, imo. That's lower than it ever was, and even worse than the nerfs that are already upsetting the majority of the community as is.

Pelican · October 2018

sprint and running needs seperate speed caps. 40-50% running speed cap and since sprint adds 40% to speed, maybe 70% speed cap with sprint.

rfennell_ESO · October 2018

Pelican wrote: »

sprint and running needs seperate speed caps. 40-50% running speed cap and since sprint adds 40% to speed, maybe 70% speed cap with sprint.

It's actually more. Medium armor (5 pieces) gets you to 55%, orc gets you to 50%, both get you to 65%.

Sprint should have been dropped down to 30%. Orc racial should be addressed (the cost reduction alone is powerful enough) and medium armor should be a 10% bonus if using 5 set medium instead of per piece of 3%.

aeowulf · October 2018

Path of darkness got major expedition buff

now, for your 3510 Magicka you get roughly 10 seconds of:

While on the path and for up to 2 seconds after leaving it you and your allies gain Major Expedition, increasing your movement speed by 30%.

yeah, no damage... and have you seen how small that thing is? tap a direction key with major expedition and you have zipped off it, fortunately you have two seconds to try to find it again...

eso_nya · October 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Some sources of Major Expedition have been 4s for the longest time and we have adapted.

(i.e. Blur - Cost 3780 Magicka)

This just brings everyone else in line.

So your telling me Bird of Prey needed a nerf to be in line with Blur... In essence that Magden needed a nerfed to be in line with Magblade... umm ok... Is Magden gonna be getting spammable invisibility, a gap closer, ranged roots, ranged snares, unique untyped speed buffs, and a location recall ability now to make up for its lack of mobility... I think zos should undo the change to Bird of Prey as all classes play differently and the ability to maintain expedition as a mag class is what makes Magden unique and fun to play

It doesn't make them unique. I would say Magplars are unique in that they are a magic class without a source to maintain Major Expedition. That's unique, in a bad way though.

i call it unique if i am the only one who gets sth. if i am the only one who doesnt get sth, i call it discrimination.

Mihael · October 2018

i dont get why they are nerfing mag mobility when the problem was stam with swift

Gilvoth · October 2018

the nerf to speed and swift is totaly unnecessary.

Jaraal · October 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Swift was a bit too strong and needed tuning. Major Expedition did not.

Real issue that doesn't get handled, of course, is the atrocious targetting system in this game. Even briefly mentioned in patch notes.
In other words, this is another band-aid fix. Or, more like an amputation of the leg to cure the toe pain.

Exactly this, although the combination of Swift + Forward Momentum is what was causing the most concern, not just Swift itself.

Unfortunately, ZOS never takes the subtle change approach, it's always fishing with dynamite rather than trying different baits or poles. Why not keep the Swift percentage changes and FM snare immunity timer change and leave Major Expedition timers alone?

Ariades_swe · October 2018

.

Gnortranermara · October 2018

How about give Templars a decent way to access the buff? That'd be cool. Maybe then I'd understand all the whining from people who have it.

WuffyCerulei · October 2018

ZOS got tired of people going full Sanic.

Mystrius_Archaion · October 2018

Pelican wrote: »

The cause of the current speedpocalypse is swift, not major expedition. There was never an issue of people moving too fast before swift was introduced in summerset.
So the solution is simple: nerf swift and be done with that. There's no need to nerf major exp all across the board, like why does chains, quick cloak and bird of prey need a nerf again? 3.2k magicka for a 4s speed buff, seriously?

1) They did nerf swift values as well as major expedition duration.

2) It is the combination of the 2 buffs that is a problem, so both are fair game for nerfs.

3) They can't nerf swift enough to fix the problem so they need to also nerf major expedition.

That's what gets me though. I don't understand why they would nerf swift values that much since it essentially makes it next to worthless. The more logical approach to me that would better fix the problem is nerfing the value of major expedition down and then the duration could be kept.
I hate super short duration expensive buffs, especially if they don't have a huge benefit. I'm used to the nightblade's Refreshing Path which is the only major expedition any of my characters have ever really used. That buff from Refreshing Path absolutely sucks because you have to know exactly which direction you want to go and point your character perfectly, especially since it doesn't point the direction of the cursor because it is broken, because it is a narrow rectangle and not a circle ground AoE. I think Refreshing Path needs to be a circle buff or at least have the major expedition stick to the character longer after leaving it since you could run out the side and only get the minimum 2 seconds duration.