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Assassin's Will And Power Lash
NyassaV
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@Dottzgaming has talked about this a few times. If your goal was to make Assassin's will and Power Lash more like frags why not just buff frags? Over and over frags has been nerfed well how about we buff it? Give it that 10% damage back and make it a free cost! @ZOS_RobGarrett
Further more if your target moves around LOS or are tab targeted and behind any LOS and you fire assassins will it just disappears, which with the new patch will cost you magic so that's nice! Not to mention magblade has a bunch of weird issues (some can be built/played around and some can't) so I really don't need another thing to screw with me.
Edited by NyassaV on October 1, 2018 5:10PM Further more if your target moves around LOS or are tab targeted and behind any LOS and you fire assassins will it just disappears, which with the new patch will cost you magic so that's nice! Not to mention magblade has a bunch of weird issues (some can be built/played around and some can't) so I really don't need another thing to screw with me.
Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
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CavalryPK✭✭✭✭✭+1THE CAVELRY HAS ARRIVED! Cav is a professional magblade, (in his not so professional opinion). He is immortal and is fighting for the Pact since 2E 572, amidst the turmoil of the Second Akaviri Invasion. He protects the provinces of Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh.
Check out his PVP YouTube channel !
https://youtube.com/TheCavalryPK1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@NyassaV asking for a Sorc buff? Do we need further prof the recent changes are a tad too much?
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.6 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.7 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭@Dottzgaming has talked about this a few times. If your goal was to make Assassin's will and Power Lash more like frags why not just buff frags? Over and over frags has been nerfed well how about we buff it? Give it that 7% damage back and make it a free cost! @ZOS_RobGarrett
Further more if your target moves around LOS or are tab targeted and behind any LOS and you fire assassins will it just disappears, which with the new patch will cost you magic so that's nice! Not to mention magblade has a bunch of weird issues (some can be built/played around and some can't) so I really don't need another thing to screw with me.
They wont buff frags simply because frags are a skill that magsorcs use, the plan is nerf magsorc to ground and make it useless. Its a smart plan to extinct the class(that i main) and extinct the eternal forum whining about "that sorc that killed this dude on pvp".
PS
No your Dunmer cant have more fire resist from Bretons simply because Dunmers have the second or first best racials for magica classes ingame, while bretons are the worst magica racial ingame that becomes EVEN worst with the increased cost reduction murkmire light armor will offer. The lowest the cost, the more diminished Breton racial gets.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@NyassaV asking for a Sorc buff? Do we need further prof the recent changes are a tad too much?
I'm not as narrow-minded as most think.
A majority of people just have an idea for how the game would be where everything is balanced and butt heads over who's vision will be made real by ZOS.
Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Pretty sure they removed snare? If not they probably should.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
True, but buffing the burst damage of the class that already has the most burst doesn't seem rational. That's like saying Nightblades need better sustain.0 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
It would be nice for PvE sorc sustain to make all three skills free though. I'm confused about the whole lets match frags issue with powerlash and will. Like one is a melee skill that has a hard cooldown because of off balance, while will has a hard set uptime and strict parameter for activation. I've had frags proc off of frags(or felt like it probably not though). Its strange that instead of helping petless sorc sustain, literally the only class to have a lower sustain than a dk(on paper), they push two class south instead of one class north. nightblade's sustain overperforming? Sure. Sorc and mDK sustain? not so much lolEdited by Onefrkncrzypope on October 1, 2018 5:01PM-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
the class that already has the most burst.
Oh boi!
Whole magsorc burst that NEEDS TIMING: Curse+reach+frag+comet+Fury, and timing is hard during lag, deals alot less damage than: soulharvest+ funnel/FP/concealed wep + bow proc that need 0 timing but only the correct order.
3 skills with 0 timing do more damage than 5 skills with perfect timing assuming that you dont duel a potato and your comet will be blocked as intended because magsorcs dont have privilege of the perfect ulti that increases ur damage done,your crit chance+damage+cheapest ulti ingame too bla bla bla bla.Edited by Nicko_Lps on October 1, 2018 5:05PM4 -
HuawaSepp✭✭✭@NyassaV asking for a Sorc buff? Do we need further prof the recent changes are a tad too much?
Nerfing one class to nirvana shouldn't be a oportunity to justify all nerfs or bugs of other classes.
But yeah sorcs are done, everyone can see that.Edited by HuawaSepp on October 1, 2018 5:12PMPTS-EU0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
Frags cannot be cast twice as often as bow unless you want to hard cast it (maybe if you get a lucky string of procs, but you can also get an unlucky string). It also requires spending magicka on actual skills, as opposed to just light attacking, and to top it off is RNG. Consistency > RNG almost always. Frags is also a good 5k+ tooltip dmg behind Bow (7400 if same gear + minor zerk, but let's be generous - it was 17.6k frag vs 25k bow)
And I'm not entirely sure about this, but I'm reasonably certain that bow only requires you to fire off light attacks at someone - they don't have to actually hit?
Finally, you can use LAs on your backbar to proc Bow on the front bar, as they count. Can't proc frags on a bar it isn't on.
Edited by Tonturri on October 1, 2018 5:21PM3 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
You sound like procing spectral bow something complicated, but it’s not.
Assasin’s will hits approximately 15-20% harder than meteor, and maybe 30% harder then fully buffed frag. Imagine you could proc meteor with 5 light attacks weaves on sorc? sounds broken to me.
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Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
You sound like procing spectral bow something complicated, but it’s not.
Assasin’s will hits approximately 15-20% harder than meteor, and maybe 30% harder then fully buffed frag. Imagine you could proc meteor with 5 light attacks weaves on sorc? sounds broken to me.
Dont forget how well it lines up with wep/spell damage glyph+Soul harvest's +20% increased damage done.
It hits like 2 mages fury at the same time without the target being in execute range.
But hey...Nightblades will complain about everything, specially for the most bursting class : Sorc (LOL)
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NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
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Gill had a recommendation that it could be made so that every 3 abilities you casted with frags on your bar it would procFrags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
You sound like procing spectral bow something complicated, but it’s not.
Assasin’s will hits approximately 15-20% harder than meteor, and maybe 30% harder then fully buffed frag. Imagine you could proc meteor with 5 light attacks weaves on sorc? sounds broken to me.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
Frags cannot be cast twice as often as bow unless you want to hard cast it (maybe if you get a lucky string of procs, but you can also get an unlucky string). It also requires spending magicka on actual skills, as opposed to just light attacking, and to top it off is RNG. Consistency > RNG almost always. Frags is also a good 5k+ tooltip dmg behind Bow (7400 if same gear + minor zerk, but let's be generous - it was 17.6k frag vs 25k bow)
And I'm not entirely sure about this, but I'm reasonably certain that bow only requires you to fire off light attacks at someone - they don't have to actually hit?
Finally, you can use LAs on your backbar to proc Bow on the front bar, as they count. Can't proc frags on a bar it isn't on.
Do you even play sorc? It most certainly can.1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
You sound like procing spectral bow something complicated, but it’s not.
Assasin’s will hits approximately 15-20% harder than meteor, and maybe 30% harder then fully buffed frag. Imagine you could proc meteor with 5 light attacks weaves on sorc? sounds broken to me.
It's infinitely more skillful than procing Frags via self-buffing.1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The only buff I'd like to see Frags get is the ability for it to be proc'd while you're on your opposite bar.0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
Frags cannot be cast twice as often as bow unless you want to hard cast it (maybe if you get a lucky string of procs, but you can also get an unlucky string). It also requires spending magicka on actual skills, as opposed to just light attacking, and to top it off is RNG. Consistency > RNG almost always. Frags is also a good 5k+ tooltip dmg behind Bow (7400 if same gear + minor zerk, but let's be generous - it was 17.6k frag vs 25k bow)
And I'm not entirely sure about this, but I'm reasonably certain that bow only requires you to fire off light attacks at someone - they don't have to actually hit?
Finally, you can use LAs on your backbar to proc Bow on the front bar, as they count. Can't proc frags on a bar it isn't on.
Do you even play sorc? It most certainly can.
Yes. I play sorc so well I can actually read Frags tooltip and do math to compare it to Bow. I'm also so skillful I can read entire sentences (did you miss the section in () up there where I mention you can get a lucky or unlucky string of procs?)
And natch potes bumped the 10% frags proc dmg boost to 20%. C'MON ZOS LET'S GO. WOO. That priceless timing xDEdited by Tonturri on October 1, 2018 5:43PM1 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
And on one hand you have a random proc vs one that you can control. I'd rather have one that I can control (plus does a butt load more damage)Edited by usmguy1234 on October 1, 2018 5:37PMZaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
@Daus here is something we disagree again
In a pve rotation having frags only procc from one bar and with a proccchance of 35% you´ll have very similar number of hits when looking at both abilities.
Yes you can procc frags back to back - but you can also go on a 10s streak of no fragprocc at all.
Just look at at a couple of pve parses and you´ll find my statement to be true.
Compared fear turbo dps parse on 6 mill dummy:
will 15 hits
frags 17 hits
Compared alcast pve build dps parse 3 mill dummy sorc 6mill dummy nb:
will 18 hits (halve this)
frags 9 hits
In pvp this effect gets amplified by not having a staple rotation and frags usually not being on the defensive bar.
Furthermore getting a will procc does not cost you resources. If you missed you will you can just lightattack spam your next procc. Getting a frag procc ALWAYS requires to invest resources because you need to cast skills.
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
You sound like procing spectral bow something complicated, but it’s not.
Assasin’s will hits approximately 15-20% harder than meteor, and maybe 30% harder then fully buffed frag. Imagine you could proc meteor with 5 light attacks weaves on sorc? sounds broken to me.
It's infinitely more skillful than procing Frags via self-buffing.
No it’s not.
Every zergling that spams light attacks on me can proc the bow easily. where is the skill required here?
And I can’t really proc my frags via self buffing, since I usually have buffs and frags on different bars. And I seen your message saying that you want to change it, and I appreciate it, don’t get me wrong.
But While I self buff and weave on magblade, I have 4/5 light attacks ready when I stop self buffing and go offensive, not even a completion when compare to frags.
Just don’t start all that “weaving is hard” nonsense, we both know it’s not, and this will just cause more butthurt from other sorcs here. Yes, ass will used a bit more skill a long time ago when it could expire and was harder to time, but not anymore.
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Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
You sound like procing spectral bow something complicated, but it’s not.
Assasin’s will hits approximately 15-20% harder than meteor, and maybe 30% harder then fully buffed frag. Imagine you could proc meteor with 5 light attacks weaves on sorc? sounds broken to me.
It's infinitely more skillful than procing Frags via self-buffing.
yup, if we take two beginner using assasin's will and crystal frag as an example, I did not know the class were balanced arround these players only? In this case I agree with you
But let's take 2 competent players in PVE, both have a perfect weaving, but only one is rewarded for it with increased damage, how is that fair ?
I'm not saying crystal frags damage should be buffed, but that everyclass should be rewarded for skillfull gameplay with increased damage or sustain, maybe the current overload on PTS could deplete ultimate every second and not simply when you use a LA or an HA, and deal slightly more damage than the atronach if your weaving is perfect ( + help with sustain).
Crystal frag need some love too ofc, but first I would like them to rework crystal blast, allow crystal frag proc on off bar, and make it synergises with sorc passive abilities better.
When you hard-cast a frag, the next crystal proc used within 20 sec would buff the blood magic passive effectiveness for example
In the same situation ( first they would need to allow crystal blast proc ), crystal blast would buff the persistence passive effectiveness.
Edited by Apherius on October 1, 2018 5:51PM0 -
Valykc✭✭✭✭✭Sorcerer
Dark Magic
Crystal Fragments:
Increased the damage of the proc from this ability to 20% from 10%.
They granted your wish1 -
Dottzgaming✭✭✭✭✭I have talked about this absolutely, because this change just leaves me scratching my head - why DKs and NBs are being nerfed to make their "proc" skills more in line with sorc's, instead of making sorc's more in line with the other two, makes no sense to me. Why are we nerfing two skills instead of changing/buffing one?
Speaking mainly from the mDK perspective, mDK has FINALLY been making great strides in the sustain department, and with one patch that was undone, especially for PvP. Power Lash being free was a huge part of our sustain and it's going to be annoying no longer having that and we will have to bake more sustain in, which will be a damage loss. Couple that with the changes to evasion causing our leap to effectively deal 25% less damage against targets with that buff, i think this upcoming patch will not be a fun one for our damage.
And for those who get scared or pissed or whatever when they hear "sorc buffs", my only point for that was saying make Frags cost less or be free to make it more "in line" with the other two instead of nerfing two skills. Or, better yet, we dont have to buff or nerf things just for the sake of class homogenization if the skills in their current form are working fine within the context of that class's kit.
But, that's just my opinion.
EDIT: Just noticed sorc's frags got a buff and power lash / bow remain unchanged. FeelsbadmanEdited by Dottzgaming on October 1, 2018 6:01PM3 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dottzgaming wrote: »I have talked about this absolutely, because this change just leaves me scratching my head - why DKs and NBs are being nerfed to make their "proc" skills more in line with sorc's, instead of making sorc's more in line with the other two, makes no sense to me. Why are we nerfing two skills instead of changing/buffing one?
Speaking mainly from the mDK perspective, mDK has FINALLY been making great strides in the sustain department, and with one patch that was undone, especially for PvP. Power Lash being free was a huge part of our sustain and it's going to be annoying no longer having that and we will have to bake more sustain in, which will be a damage loss. Couple that with the changes to evasion causing our leap to effectively deal 25% less damage against targets with that buff, i think this upcoming patch will not be a fun one for our damage.
And for those who get scared or pissed or whatever when they hear "sorc buffs", my only point for that was saying make Frags cost less or be free to make it more "in line" with the other two instead of nerfing two skills. Or, better yet, we dont have to buff or nerf things just for the sake of class homogenization if the skills in their current form are working fine within the context of that class's kit.
But, that's just my opinion.
EDIT: Just noticed sorc's frags got a buff and power lash / bow remain unchanged.
ZoS pls
They also just made it harder for Will and Frags to hit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Strife is still a mess of a skill too
ALSO SNIPE BTW APPARENTLY IT'S BETTER TO USE SNIPE THAN MERCILESS OR POWER LASH LOL
Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
@Daus here is something we disagree again
In a pve rotation having frags only procc from one bar and with a proccchance of 35% you´ll have very similar number of hits when looking at both abilities.
Yes you can procc frags back to back - but you can also go on a 10s streak of no fragprocc at all.
Just look at at a couple of pve parses and you´ll find my statement to be true.
Compared fear turbo dps parse on 6 mill dummy:
will 15 hits
frags 17 hits
Compared alcast pve build dps parse 3 mill dummy sorc 6mill dummy nb:
will 18 hits (halve this)
frags 9 hits
In pvp this effect gets amplified by not having a staple rotation and frags usually not being on the defensive bar.
Furthermore getting a will procc does not cost you resources. If you missed you will you can just lightattack spam your next procc. Getting a frag procc ALWAYS requires to invest resources because you need to cast skills.
Ah you see other than "tanking" dungeons for undaunted I don't PvE on my magsorc. I mainly just do BGs, and duel
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HEBREWHAMMERRR✭✭✭✭✭Apparently assassins will wasn’t already predictable enough with requiring 5 LAs, playing arguably the loudest activation sound in the game, and a crazy slow projectile, they now needed to add a melee range projectile time, hindering the entire point of closing the gap and timing this already telegraphed burst even more difficult. Why is this a change? Makes absolutely no sense, they keep watering down this game to cater to casuals every update. The entire point of this ability is to build up burst, get in melee, time your cc with your bow, why are you adding a buffered projectile that close to cater to people who can’t counter react? Sigh..2
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Frags can be casted at least twice as often as the Spectral Bow, and it doesn't require landing any light or heavy attacks to achieve. It wouldn't be balanced for them to do comparable damage.
@Daus here is something we disagree again
In a pve rotation having frags only procc from one bar and with a proccchance of 35% you´ll have very similar number of hits when looking at both abilities.
Yes you can procc frags back to back - but you can also go on a 10s streak of no fragprocc at all.
Just look at at a couple of pve parses and you´ll find my statement to be true.
Compared fear turbo dps parse on 6 mill dummy:
will 15 hits
frags 17 hits
Compared alcast pve build dps parse 3 mill dummy sorc 6mill dummy nb:
will 18 hits (halve this)
frags 9 hits
In pvp this effect gets amplified by not having a staple rotation and frags usually not being on the defensive bar.
Furthermore getting a will procc does not cost you resources. If you missed you will you can just lightattack spam your next procc. Getting a frag procc ALWAYS requires to invest resources because you need to cast skills.
Ah you see other than "tanking" dungeons for undaunted I don't PvE on my magsorc. I mainly just do BGs, and duel
I get pretty similar results when i duel on my sorc and nb - the more agressive the opponent is the more it favors nightblade.
sorc is pretty constant because of the need to reapply shields in any scenario.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500
