Some very basic questions around the shield nerfs / limit to 40% health

visionality · September 2018

When shields will he hard-capped at 40% of a player's health ...

Are those 40% also the limit for procset shields, e.g.Iceheart, Brands of Imperium or Haven of Ursus? Or will procset-shields be taken out of the 40% calculation in order to keep their utility?Can they stack on top of self-casted shields, thus going above the 40% limit or will their proc simply vanish into nothingness?
Will there be a new CP skill replacing bastion (which will be overperforming under most circumstances) or will bastion be changed to keep some utility?
Will there be a new morph replacing hardened ward which will normally hit the 40% health cap before its full strength (at least in PVE)?
How will shield strength be calculated when several shields are applied? E.g. when a magblade casts dampen magic, then blocks, gets a secondary shield via the psijic passive Concentrated Barrier, then unblocks. Will the 40% max number remain when the fresher shield is canceled or will 5000 hitpoints be deduced from the shield - which would be some very strange sort of self-inflicted damage, btw. (Same question ofc for Reinforced from the Stallion cp tree. Same question ofc for any stacked shield and for barrier). Or the other way around: When the older shield runs out, how strong is the remaining one? Will it be the 40% health-cap number minus the strength of the first shield? Or will there be a "hidden shield pool" that refills up to the 40% limit whenever an older shield expires?
Will stamina shields be limited the same way as magicka shields? If yes, will there be a new skill replacing the 2h-brawler, which will be overperforming regularily and loose a lot of its value if its cut down to max 40% player's health?
What about the Warden's Crystallized shield, which shields against 13k+ damage of incoming projectiles? Will this shield be reduced to 40% players health, too? And even trickier: if some other shield is stacked on top (e.g. some other player casting barrier), will the crystallized shield loose the respective amount of strength (and not reflect projectiles anymore/not generate ulti in case of the shimmering morph) or will barrier be that much weaker although Crystallized Shield is not shielding against ALL sorts of damage?
What about Templars Radiant Ward which starts at 30% max health and gains 6% strength whenever it is taking damage (no matter how small)?
What about DK's magma-shell-ulti that gives nearby players a shield equivalent to 100% of their health? Will the morph be changed to keep some value?
What about the synergy of bone shield, which grants the activator and up to 3 players a shield equivalent to 100% of their health? Will the synergy be changed to keep some value?

Pls feel free to comment and add additional question, I'm sure this list is not even covering half the ground that has to be worked upon.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - Would be nice to get an answer!

ankeor · September 2018

Yes. And no.

You are welcome.

smacx250 · September 2018

1. No. And stacking is not affected - the cap is per-shield.
2. No
3. No
4. See second answer for #1
5. No
6. No change
7. No change
8. No change
9. No change

But that is all based off a forecast of what might show up on PTS - things may change.

Edit: Don't forget that the 40% cap only applies to the two shields that they previously gave a 1s cast time. No other shields should be affected.

Feric51 · September 2018

So all these shield changes so far have only applied to Conjured Ward and morphs (Sorc skill) and Annulment and morphs (light armor skill). No other shields were ever even in the discussion from day one. They still haven’t been mentioned. The 40% HP cap is only in relation to the two skills that had the cast time temporarily added.

Rob Garrett also said that the 40% HP cap is PER SHIELD (only relating to these two specific skills) and they will still be able to stack.

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2018

smacx250 wrote: »

Edit: Don't forget that the 40% cap only applies to the two shields that they previously gave a 1s cast time. No other shields should be affected.

You're the ONLY other person, besides myself, that seemed to have figured that out.
It's ridiculous how much the sky is falling right now for people.
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Mystrius_Archaion · September 2018

Feric51 wrote: »

So all these shield changes so far have only applied to Conjured Ward and morphs (Sorc skill) and Annulment and morphs (light armor skill). No other shields were ever even in the discussion from day one. They still haven’t been mentioned. The 40% HP cap is only in relation to the two skills that had the cast time temporarily added.

Rob Garrett also said that the 40% HP cap is PER SHIELD (only relating to these two specific skills) and they will still be able to stack.

1) All shields now benefit from resistances before the damage hits the shield, making the shield worth more almost exactly like health.
2) All shields can be crit now, but that only affects pvp and still has to go through crit resistance.
3) ONLY the light armor shield(Annulment) and sorcerer shield(Conjured Ward) ever had a cast time and now have a planned 40% cap separately.

All shields still stack and values for most shields stay the same as they always were.

Edit:
The reason the light armor and sorcerer shields are different than all other shields is because they are the only, as far as I remember, shields that scale with magicka or any other dps stat making them "better at tanking from being better at damage" which is a problem.

mb10 · September 2018

Is the 40% affect by battle spirit?

Pls @ me so I get the notification

Rebiludo · September 2018

And what About cap and spell symmetry ?
25k Health => 10K Caps
20k shield => spell symmetry => 10 k shield ?

If yes, very interesting for tanking

Septimus_Magna · September 2018

@mb10 The changes are not on the PTS yet so we havent been able to test it.

My assumption would be that Battle Spirit comes after the 40% health scaling. So 25k health gives 10k shield in PVE, 50% reduction leaves 5k shield in PVP.

Morgul667 · September 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@mb10 The changes are not on the PTS yet so we havent been able to test it.

My assumption would be that Battle Spirit comes after the 40% health scaling. So 25k health gives 10k shield in PVE, 50% reduction leaves 5k shield in PVP.

I think they said if the 40% health is lower than the battle spirit cap, then the shield remains at 40%.

Not 40% divided by 2

GallantGuardian · September 2018

Feric51 wrote: »

So all these shield changes so far have only applied to Conjured Ward and morphs (Sorc skill) and Annulment and morphs (light armor skill). No other shields were ever even in the discussion from day one. They still haven’t been mentioned. The 40% HP cap is only in relation to the two skills that had the cast time temporarily added.

Rob Garrett also said that the 40% HP cap is PER SHIELD (only relating to these two specific skills) and they will still be able to stack.

So two shields that you can stack that are equal to 40% of your health each meaning 80% of your health once stacked ?

Biro123 · September 2018

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

So all these shield changes so far have only applied to Conjured Ward and morphs (Sorc skill) and Annulment and morphs (light armor skill). No other shields were ever even in the discussion from day one. They still haven’t been mentioned. The 40% HP cap is only in relation to the two skills that had the cast time temporarily added.

Rob Garrett also said that the 40% HP cap is PER SHIELD (only relating to these two specific skills) and they will still be able to stack.

So two shields that you can stack that are equal to 40% of your health each meaning 80% of your health once stacked ?

Yes.

Although the original wording on the it's notes heavily implies that the 40% cap was for all shields, @ZOS_RobGarrett later posted some clarifications which are now hidden in that same thread among a ton of other posts.

So yeah, the cap is not halved in PvP, and it is per shield.
Although, with enough defensive stats to make a shield last long enough to be useful, you won't need shields so much, so I don't think there will be much benefit in stacking anymore. I think you should be able to survive unshielded long enough that you only need one shield on your bar.
Offence will be trash though, whichever way you cut it.

GallantGuardian · September 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

GallantGuardian wrote: »

Feric51 wrote: »

So all these shield changes so far have only applied to Conjured Ward and morphs (Sorc skill) and Annulment and morphs (light armor skill). No other shields were ever even in the discussion from day one. They still haven’t been mentioned. The 40% HP cap is only in relation to the two skills that had the cast time temporarily added.

Rob Garrett also said that the 40% HP cap is PER SHIELD (only relating to these two specific skills) and they will still be able to stack.

So two shields that you can stack that are equal to 40% of your health each meaning 80% of your health once stacked ?

Yes.

Although the original wording on the it's notes heavily implies that the 40% cap was for all shields, @ZOS_RobGarrett later posted some clarifications which are now hidden in that same thread among a ton of other posts.

So yeah, the cap is not halved in PvP, and it is per shield.
Although, with enough defensive stats to make a shield last long enough to be useful, you won't need shields so much, so I don't think there will be much benefit in stacking anymore. I think you should be able to survive unshielded long enough that you only need one shield on your bar.
Offence will be trash though, whichever way you cut it.

Thanks I don’t really mess with my sorc much and really I only use hardened ward my mains a Templar tank but I was just trying to get my head around all the complaints

Basically two shields at 40% each is gonna be real tanky on top of your resists

Biro123 · September 2018

I think they will mostly be weaker given the crit damage, unless you go full tank and massively stack both resists and crit-resists.. but I'm not sure if that would put you to a point where you're mag shrinks to where shields get smaller than the cap.. and I suspect sustain issues too.
Will take a bit of experimentation with the new dark exchange, to really see what can be done.

smacx250 · September 2018

mb10 wrote: »

Is the 40% affect by battle spirit?

Pls @ me so I get the notification

@mb10 - The explanation that has been given is that battle spirit applies before the cap, so if your shield after battle spirit is applied is not more than 40% of your health, there is no effect to its strength:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5494932#Comment_5494932

Beardimus · September 2018

visionality wrote: »

When shields will he hard-capped at 40% of a player's health ...
Are those 40% also the limit for procset shields, e.g.Iceheart, Brands of Imperium or Haven of Ursus? Or will procset-shields be taken out of the 40% calculation in order to keep their utility?Can they stack on top of self-casted shields, thus going above the 40% limit or will their proc simply vanish into nothingness?

Will there be a new CP skill replacing bastion (which will be overperforming under most circumstances) or will bastion be changed to keep some utility?

Will there be a new morph replacing hardened ward which will normally hit the 40% health cap before its full strength (at least in PVE)?

How will shield strength be calculated when several shields are applied? E.g. when a magblade casts dampen magic, then blocks, gets a secondary shield via the psijic passive Concentrated Barrier, then unblocks. Will the 40% max number remain when the fresher shield is canceled or will 5000 hitpoints be deduced from the shield - which would be some very strange sort of self-inflicted damage, btw. (Same question ofc for Reinforced from the Stallion cp tree. Same question ofc for any stacked shield and for barrier). Or the other way around: When the older shield runs out, how strong is the remaining one? Will it be the 40% health-cap number minus the strength of the first shield? Or will there be a "hidden shield pool" that refills up to the 40% limit whenever an older shield expires?

Will stamina shields be limited the same way as magicka shields? If yes, will there be a new skill replacing the 2h-brawler, which will be overperforming regularily and loose a lot of its value if its cut down to max 40% player's health?

What about the Warden's Crystallized shield, which shields against 13k+ damage of incoming projectiles? Will this shield be reduced to 40% players health, too? And even trickier: if some other shield is stacked on top (e.g. some other player casting barrier), will the crystallized shield loose the respective amount of strength (and not reflect projectiles anymore/not generate ulti in case of the shimmering morph) or will barrier be that much weaker although Crystallized Shield is not shielding against ALL sorts of damage?

What about Templars Radiant Ward which starts at 30% max health and gains 6% strength whenever it is taking damage (no matter how small)?

What about DK's magma-shell-ulti that gives nearby players a shield equivalent to 100% of their health? Will the morph be changed to keep some value?

What about the synergy of bone shield, which grants the activator and up to 3 players a shield equivalent to 100% of their health? Will the synergy be changed to keep some value?

Pls feel free to comment and add additional question, I'm sure this list is not even covering half the ground that has to be worked upon.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - Would be nice to get an answer!

To be honest i think its good someone is asking the questions. Yep its cool cast time is gone, but has the 40% thing been thought through, that's all we wanna know.

Or was it an arbitrary number that came up in the meeting?

Have the wider implications to Bastian etc been considered. The knock on affect of effectively killing diversity if high magika (60k) yolo builds etc.

What are they really trying to fix? Public opinion / noise about wards?

Tested data stats on how wards perform?

Or just a gut feel direction shift.

At the end of the day its just a game but i don't wonder with changes like these how though through they are.

katorga · September 2018

So basically, lots of new, complicated, and probably buggy calculations to help lag out the servers, which produce ZERO change from the way things are today in pvp. The whining will continue.

1. you get 5K extra health in pvp
2. Health cap applies per shield, not to sum of all shields.
3. battle spirit applies prior to the health cap check
4. annulment/hardened ward can stack
5. Healing ward can stack and not impacted by health cap

It definitely nerfs shields in pve where I can easily get a hardened ward larger than my health pool. I use one shield pve, now I probably will use 2.