Malem_Benign wrote: »Hello again,
After watching this interesting show for some time I've finally get the idea.
So you want to remove the comfortable-evening play from the game for at least big number of players. Make their participation in PVP areas and BGs valuable only in a few specific sets. Make Veteran Dungeons a lot more harder to win, once again in a very few specific sets. Make every boss with K.O. shots a deadend. Make Solo Dungeons unbearable in any possible way, etc. Ruin single play, force to coop with specific chars with specific sets for each specific challenge.
There is no balance intention in that, please don't lie. You're far not the first. The only reason for such toxic changes is the forcing players to spend more and more time in the game and receive less and less satisfaction from the play, always stay unsatisfied. I see that you're in the beggining of that path, but you're going exact this way.
The only thing that is left - is to monetize in a proper way this constant dissatisfaction.
The idea is clear - the game considered too easy and comfotable for players and this affects in a bad way ZoS financial plans. That would be fixed.
Malem_Benign wrote: »Hello again,
After watching this interesting show for some time I've finally get the idea.
So you want to remove the comfortable-evening play from the game for at least big number of players. Make their participation in PVP areas and BGs valuable only in a few specific sets. Make Veteran Dungeons a lot more harder to win, once again in a very few specific sets. Make every boss with K.O. shots a deadend. Make Solo Dungeons unbearable in any possible way, etc. Ruin single play, force to coop with specific chars with specific sets for each specific challenge.
There is no balance intention in that, please don't lie. You're far not the first. The only reason for such toxic changes is the forcing players to spend more and more time in the game and receive less and less satisfaction from the play, always stay unsatisfied. I see that you're in the beggining of that path, but you're going exact this way.
The only thing that is left - is to monetize in a proper way this constant dissatisfaction.
The idea is clear - the game considered too easy and comfotable for players and this affects in a bad way ZoS financial plans. That would be fixed.
Some of this might have a hint of truth most of it does not. However, the way you are putting this I wonder why you are still here? You obviously seem to really dislike the game so whats the point really?
Malem_Benign wrote: »Hello again,
After watching this interesting show for some time I've finally get the idea.
So you want to remove the comfortable-evening play from the game for at least big number of players. Make their participation in PVP areas and BGs valuable only in a few specific sets. Make Veteran Dungeons a lot more harder to win, once again in a very few specific sets. Make every boss with K.O. shots a deadend. Make Solo Dungeons unbearable in any possible way, etc. Ruin single play, force to coop with specific chars with specific sets for each specific challenge.
There is no balance intention in that, please don't lie. You're far not the first. The only reason for such toxic changes is the forcing players to spend more and more time in the game and receive less and less satisfaction from the play, always stay unsatisfied. I see that you're in the beggining of that path, but you're going exact this way.
The only thing that is left - is to monetize in a proper way this constant dissatisfaction.
The idea is clear - the game considered too easy and comfotable for players and this affects in a bad way ZoS financial plans. That would be fixed.
Some of this might have a hint of truth most of it does not. However, the way you are putting this I wonder why you are still here? You obviously seem to really dislike the game so whats the point really?
The game is really easy tbh. Speaking about pve you can face roll basically every dungeon even naked, trials are ez too if you got the dedication to spend few hours progressing with your group. And after the few weeks of pvp you can build a tanky char,find a group of 15 ppl and do fine without l2p.
VaranisArano wrote: »The game is really easy tbh. Speaking about pve you can face roll basically every dungeon even naked, trials are ez too if you got the dedication to spend few hours progressing with your group. And after the few weeks of pvp you can build a tanky char,find a group of 15 ppl and do fine without l2p.
PVP is almost always better with a group for new players, and the more organized the better. It takes skill and experience to play successfully in very small groups or solo in Cyrodiil.
Malem_Benign wrote: »Hello again,
After watching this interesting show for some time I've finally get the idea...
VaranisArano wrote: »Yes, PVE nerfs happen when PVEers find the game too easy.
And yes, by the devs' standards, PVEers are finding vet end-game content too easy. We've seen the high DPS bragging, the complaints about healers being useless compared to a 3rd damage dealer, and that damage shields make things simple. As for overland, well, that's been easy since One Tamriel.
This isnt even the first time this happened. The Great Sustain Nerfs of Morrowind were another situation where PVE end game content was becoming too easy for players, so ZOS nerfed sustain.
Are the nerfs a good thing? The nerfs are a good thing for the Developers. Now, they dont have to design super hard new content for top tier end game players that nobody else can touch.
Think about vAS and vCR. Now consider what ZOS would have to do to design harder content for higher DPS. There's a reason the devs nerf players.
Now, mind you, the devs also nerf the meta on a regular basis to encourage players who care about chasing the meta to grind. That's constantly happening since One Tamriel and is a different type of nerf than this across the board nerf to survivability to reset the difficulty of end-game content.
Malem_Benign wrote: »Hello again,
After watching this interesting show for some time I've finally get the idea.
So you want to remove the comfortable-evening play from the game for at least big number of players. Make their participation in PVP areas and BGs valuable only in a few specific sets. Make Veteran Dungeons a lot more harder to win, once again in a very few specific sets. Make every boss with K.O. shots a deadend. Make Solo Dungeons unbearable in any possible way, etc. Ruin single play, force to coop with specific chars with specific sets for each specific challenge.
There is no balance intention in that, please don't lie. You're far not the first. The only reason for such toxic changes is the forcing players to spend more and more time in the game and receive less and less satisfaction from the play, always stay unsatisfied. I see that you're in the beggining of that path, but you're going exact this way.
The only thing that is left - is to monetize in a proper way this constant dissatisfaction.
The idea is clear - the game considered too easy and comfotable for players and this affects in a bad way ZoS financial plans. That would be fixed.
Some of this might have a hint of truth most of it does not. However, the way you are putting this I wonder why you are still here? You obviously seem to really dislike the game so whats the point really?
I got the opposite impression by him posting here, but it does seem like he is ready to just drop it.
The game is really easy tbh. Speaking about pve you can face roll basically every dungeon even naked, trials are ez too if you got the dedication to spend few hours progressing with your group. And after the few weeks of pvp you can build a tanky char,find a group of 15 ppl and do fine without l2p.
VaranisArano wrote: »The game is really easy tbh. Speaking about pve you can face roll basically every dungeon even naked, trials are ez too if you got the dedication to spend few hours progressing with your group. And after the few weeks of pvp you can build a tanky char,find a group of 15 ppl and do fine without l2p.
PVP is almost always better with a group for new players, and the more organized the better. It takes skill and experience to play successfully in very small groups or solo in Cyrodiil.
VaranisArano wrote: »The game is really easy tbh. Speaking about pve you can face roll basically every dungeon even naked, trials are ez too if you got the dedication to spend few hours progressing with your group. And after the few weeks of pvp you can build a tanky char,find a group of 15 ppl and do fine without l2p.
PVP is almost always better with a group for new players, and the more organized the better. It takes skill and experience to play successfully in very small groups or solo in Cyrodiil.
Yes but still lot of things changed. When I started pvping here years ago group of 10 to 20 low skilled players were the wet dream of Xv1ers since it was not rare for a god tier pvper to wipe a full group. Now the game is very forgiving,and the few god tier that are still playing are mostly small scaling since it’s become easier and easier to survive (and kill ) when outnumbering
SirLeeMinion wrote: »Malem_Benign wrote: »Hello again,
After watching this interesting show for some time I've finally get the idea...
I have to reluctantly agree with much of this. One sees the many "Git Gud" and "It's too easy,;I cleared VMA naked in 28 seconds" posts. A quick and dirty Google search suggests very few have actually completed VMA; posts from a year ago put it under 1/2% on consoles. I'm trying for a second clear (on my main account) knowing I won't even attempt it again once shield nerfs go through.
I play the game for fun, not to "git gud" at something that doesn't matter or be forced into a high-commitment group activity that will take 2 hours. Someone will say, "MMO." Watching guild chat and player locations suggests that most players fit this mold and most are going through content solo or in PUGs. PvP has to be balanced around top-tier players. The majority of PvE does not. In the end, I vote my wallet. I have yet to purchase a single dungeon DLC and won't unless they release content that is soloable or fun to do casually with PUGS. Maybe the top 5% of players are spending 95% of the money. If not, it's difficult to understand why ZOS is choosing this path.
SirLeeMinion wrote: »Malem_Benign wrote: »Hello again,
After watching this interesting show for some time I've finally get the idea...
I have to reluctantly agree with much of this. One sees the many "Git Gud" and "It's too easy,;I cleared VMA naked in 28 seconds" posts. A quick and dirty Google search suggests very few have actually completed VMA; posts from a year ago put it under 1/2% on consoles. I'm trying for a second clear (on my main account) knowing I won't even attempt it again once shield nerfs go through.
I play the game for fun, not to "git gud" at something that doesn't matter or be forced into a high-commitment group activity that will take 2 hours. Someone will say, "MMO." Watching guild chat and player locations suggests that most players fit this mold and most are going through content solo or in PUGs. PvP has to be balanced around top-tier players. The majority of PvE does not. In the end, I vote my wallet. I have yet to purchase a single dungeon DLC and won't unless they release content that is soloable or fun to do casually with PUGS. Maybe the top 5% of players are spending 95% of the money. If not, it's difficult to understand why ZOS is choosing this path.
Perhaps. If you torture the data enough, it will confess to anything.LiquidPony wrote: »Whatever "percentage of players" have the vMA achievement on console is meaningless...
Agreed, but even in the PvP guilds I've been in from time to time, most players were doing their own thing or PUGing. I'd further suggest that there are a lot more people in active trade guilds (which make up most of my context) than there are focused trials guilds.LiquidPony wrote: »I'd also say that what you see in guild chat or guild roster player locations is just a reflection of the guilds you're in...
One would certainly hope so!LiquidPony wrote: »...most people who focus on "competitive" PvP or end-game PvE are playing for fun, too. They just have fun doing different things than you do.
The game is really easy tbh. Speaking about pve you can face roll basically every dungeon even naked, trials are ez too if you got the dedication to spend few hours progressing with your group. And after the few weeks of pvp you can build a tanky char,find a group of 15 ppl and do fine without l2p.
SirLeeMinion wrote: »For my money, though, more difficult does not always equal more enjoyable. I dissent.
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »For my money, though, more difficult does not always equal more enjoyable. I dissent.
Same here.
I would quit this game in a heartbeat if somebody brought back the old MMO City of Heroes because that was actually FUN because nobody found it "hard" in groups. You had the option to solo things to make it tough or group to make it a blast.
"Hard" is the opposite of "fun". The people who find "hard"/"challenging" fun only find the end result of winning that comes after the challenge "fun".
Some of them are the same people who throw controllers in a frustrated rage freak-out that forces them to buy another controller and maybe even "spike the controller" when they win and "love the sense of accomplishment" of somehow not winding up self-lobotomized by beating their brains against that brick wall.(though that could explain some things)
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »For my money, though, more difficult does not always equal more enjoyable. I dissent.
Same here.
I would quit this game in a heartbeat if somebody brought back the old MMO City of Heroes because that was actually FUN because nobody found it "hard" in groups. You had the option to solo things to make it tough or group to make it a blast.
"Hard" is the opposite of "fun". The people who find "hard"/"challenging" fun only find the end result of winning that comes after the challenge "fun".
Some of them are the same people who throw controllers in a frustrated rage freak-out that forces them to buy another controller and maybe even "spike the controller" when they win and "love the sense of accomplishment" of somehow not winding up self-lobotomized by beating their brains against that brick wall.(though that could explain some things)
You're right. 'Hard' is really the opposite of fun because it's just hard and you will fail if you loose interest and your concentration fades.
It was fun to reload the game 100 times in XCOM 2 because you did something on the hardest difficulty with your weak crew that seems absolutely impossible to do.
It was fun because i need luck and because I had to find the one way out of 100 others, which mades me win the fight.
TES games are only fun on max difficulty.
Fallout also
Dark Souls is fun without changing anything
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »The game is really easy tbh. Speaking about pve you can face roll basically every dungeon even naked, trials are ez too if you got the dedication to spend few hours progressing with your group. And after the few weeks of pvp you can build a tanky char,find a group of 15 ppl and do fine without l2p.
"I'm a god. This is all so simple and anybody who says otherwise is a filthy casual scrub. Nobody who even has half a brain could possibly be worse than me at the game so everybody finds it as easy as I do."
Seriously, you don't even remember what it was like to be new in the game, let alone the fact that it isn't easy. Also, I doubt you would be caught dead in hard mode content most of the time because you spend most of your time avoiding it and running "normal" claiming "this is too easy" like Billy Madison on the playground with his classmates.
People have no shame in their "fish stories" and "white lies" and "tall tales" about their own superiority.
We've all been noobs and all know the content is only "easier than it was" because we've memorized it down to unconscious muscle memory from being forced to repetitively grind the same things over and over and over and over and over, while it never was and never will be "truly easy".
PvE IS too easy. 99% of it at least.
And the 1% will get done by those that have the energy regardless. They will fine a way.
Making he majority of content harder is good in my opinion. If a few world bosses were like a vet trial boss etc it would love up open world.
Make dolmens harder to stop the grinders and make.it a group event that's interesting.
Get the 1% guys out of Vet HM trials and wandering overland would be cool.
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »The game is really easy tbh. Speaking about pve you can face roll basically every dungeon even naked, trials are ez too if you got the dedication to spend few hours progressing with your group. And after the few weeks of pvp you can build a tanky char,find a group of 15 ppl and do fine without l2p.
"I'm a god. This is all so simple and anybody who says otherwise is a filthy casual scrub. Nobody who even has half a brain could possibly be worse than me at the game so everybody finds it as easy as I do."
Seriously, you don't even remember what it was like to be new in the game, let alone the fact that it isn't easy. Also, I doubt you would be caught dead in hard mode content most of the time because you spend most of your time avoiding it and running "normal" claiming "this is too easy" like Billy Madison on the playground with his classmates.
People have no shame in their "fish stories" and "white lies" and "tall tales" about their own superiority.
We've all been noobs and all know the content is only "easier than it was" because we've memorized it down to unconscious muscle memory from being forced to repetitively grind the same things over and over and over and over and over, while it never was and never will be "truly easy".
It’s funny that you think I was assuming that I’m a god. I’m not,I’m good at the game cause I spent 3 years playing but I’m nowhere near “god”.
Still I find the game easy. Once you put some effort in the game you’ll realise that the basic mechanics are quite easy.
Seriously,I don’t get why games should be balanced for carebears.
I for one find the game quite difficult for a MMO. Yeah, i would love dark souls dificulty but that would scare many player away. What the game needs is a flat health increase to all the overland mobs and especially named characters from quests they need higher health. It feels funny when you go in an adventure to destroy "insert name here" evil-doer and he dies in 1 second max 2. Not to say how Molag'Bal was a total pushover, I would have rather they added Vet Molag Kena copy pasted from the dungeon.
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »I for one find the game quite difficult for a MMO. Yeah, i would love dark souls dificulty but that would scare many player away. What the game needs is a flat health increase to all the overland mobs and especially named characters from quests they need higher health. It feels funny when you go in an adventure to destroy "insert name here" evil-doer and he dies in 1 second max 2. Not to say how Molag'Bal was a total pushover, I would have rather they added Vet Molag Kena copy pasted from the dungeon.
Lies. You do not find it "difficult" while you defeat quest bosses in "1 second, max 2".
I don't even do that with my 10k max dps and experience that has made the overland "simple for me".
That's what you also fail to add to your points. Every last one of you says "the game is too easy" while forgetting the 2 words that are key to your statement, "for me". It is "easy for you", not "everyone".
FYI, Molag Bal was "designed to be easy" because it was essentially "here is your reward for persevering/subscribing for long enough to get here".
If you don't recognize that most obvious "wish fulfillment reward" then it is no wonder you don't remember or recognize that the game is not designed to be "hard" and at the same time is designed to be "not easy" so that "everyone can pay to participate" regardless of skill level.
Designing to be difficult is super risky. Dark Souls was a gamble, which is seen as "genius" in hindsight only because it was successful which was only because of timing and luck and the fact that advertising works to reach the most amount of people so they could find every interested person even though they are only 1 in 1000 gamers(if that).