Every class should bring sth unique to the group.

Stealing from already existing things is not unique.

I think it's an odd way to get Wardens into some trials/dungeons. Instead of revamping/fine tuning the class abilities they just take away some buffs from other abilities. I get it to a point I guess, Wardens are great at tanking and healing so to make them good or great at DPS is a slick road but you can do that without even entering the realm of Overpowered.

Tasear wrote: »

The concern many players have expressed is that it will make templar/warden the only good healing comb or even more so.

There are also many posts saying healers won't be necessary if all sorcs are wearing resto staves on their back bar.

karekiz wrote: »

[...] The 10% hp difference isn't like to make or break trials as if you really want it back you could reslot the hp back or just run a warden healer.

Everyone and their moms has a tank with Ebon in trials. Ebon gives less HP than Minor Thoughness, which you can keep up 100% in trials.
If you think that won't make a difference try telling someone now not to include Ebon in their trial group setup. Not including Minor Thoughness is worse.

It kinda sucks. When a Tank uses Warhorn they don't gain anything from the Stamina or Magicka buff. The increased cap doesn't help anything, and their damage is too low for the damage buff it provides to matter. The max Health buff is all that could benefit them.

I'm still going to be expected to use this move, but it won't do anything for me now.

I think removing the buff from war horm is a bit of a P2W move maybe change war horn to give 1000-1500 hp instead?

I don't know many players who main warden, simply due to the fact that it came out very late and achievements are not account bound but character bound. That's one reason why I personally play one class, because many achievements are so grindy, like monster trophies or slayer achievements. Also the pvp ranks.
So no, I don't like the changes at all.

While I know I’m about to get everyone ready to cut my head off is PvE locked down so far in the min max mindset that changing a trait or enchantment to health is that hard?

Between this and the classic Ebon Armor is one of the best sets for a tank I just have to guess that PvE is locked in it’s ways. Ebon is a poor set for a tank in terms of benefits to the tanks other set give more health. Which is it the point of the 5 piece. But adding 1K health to your groups seems like a big deal for the group. So why not just add the health yourself?

Minor Toughness is just a fake buff created after they did not manage to think of a new unique buff to give to warden class.
Think of it this way. Lets say next year a new sixth class is added to the game. Devs are lazy again and cannot think of a new class buff. They take the Max Stamina portion of War Horn, call it something like Minor Energy or whatever, and attribute it as a class specific buff only available to that class, leaving War Horn now only give Max Magicka. Two years later, another class receives a class specific buff which gives the Max Magicka leaving War Horn obsolete.
This sounds absurd but this is exactly how absurd the treatment of warden class buff received. There was nothing new, nothing creative, a "new" buff was created taking one third of War Horn and now, a year later from Morrowind launch, when people say wardens don't feel unique instead of rethinking it they are making a bad buff accessible only through a pay to win class. Terrible choice, terrible design, terrible execution. Let wardens provide something truly unique. 10% Max Health should be part of War Horn like it has been since 2014. Wardens should give something truly unique, not something that is four years old.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

This will be a buff if you use Warrior Poet

That Set should Count for the whole grp

Think giving it to Wardens is great... just can't understand why we need to strip it away from Warhorn.

If we keep it with Warhorn AND also give it to Wardens as a unique class ability, then it serves everyone. Other tanks will still be able to offer that group utility if a player does not have a Warden... while Wardens will be able to have this ability without using Warhorn. Its a Win Win surely.

Makes no sense to rob Warhorn and penialise every other class tank in the game!

Terrible change. If they want people to use wardens, they should make them good.

This patch is a mess. Whole lotta mess.

From GW2 perspective its a great change. There also present this elitist meta slaves like here. And only unique buff can buy non-top dps class a spot in the end-game group.

BUT. Here is the problem with this approach and ESO's "any class any role " thing. If templar healer already brought + 100500 dps buff then templar tanks and dps can go home.

So in general this is step in right direction. But as separate action this is just lazy game design.

Nerf Minor Toughness to 5% and leave it as Warden exclusive buff
Have Warhorn grant Major Toughness at 10%.

Warden gets a "unique" group buff that stacks with Warhorn. They get a slight utility buff (something they really don't need tbh) and Warhorn doesn't get gutted. Everyone wins