Please dont take away what little stam sorcs have to offer - Feedback

eso_lags · September 2018

I would have posted this in the sorc feedback thread but that is like 20 pages of shield talk. No this is about stam sorcs. The class that many people do not even consider a class. The class whos counterpart, mag sorc, has been on top of the game since i can remember. The class that has been neglected but still managed to do very well with what it does have. But if you go through with this change to overload you are ruining it.

This change is a terrible idea. You are effectively destroying one of the two things that make a stam sorc worth playing. And there are only 2. Dark deal and overload. Crit surge, while great, does not make a stam sorc worth playing. No. The only 2 things that make a stam sorc unique are being touched this update..

I dont even know if the change to dark deal is going to be really bad but if it is, coupled with the change to overload, then you have completely destroyed the only value this class had.

Stam sorc has ONE class damage skill that is an aoe.. NO spam-able.. NO extra buffs to damage (besides brutality which is easily obtainable via weapon skills). NO special buffs such as a spectral bow/minor berserk/major endurance, or purify, or healing passives, or teleportation, or cloaking, or critical passives, or minor brutality, or fracture, or slows, etc... But the biggest issue is that we have NO damaging ultimate. NONE! And adding to that we have NO other ultimate to use if you take away overload. Sure we can use negate but why pigeonhole us more? Why?

This class has 2 skills that make the class and if you take away this overload bar then we are left with dark deal. And with the change to dark deal we are kind of left with nothing. Why play a stam sorc after this? For crit surge? No.. For streak? I dont think so. For hurricane? Certainly not. A nightblade has 100 times more to offer than a stam sorc. Healing passives. Damage ult. HUGE burst damage. Class buffs. Class damage skills. And the same can be said for every single class EXCEPT for stam sorc.

How can you justify taking away our only viable ult? How can you justify touching the only other ability that makes our class, dark deal? I mean you buffed stamplar. You buffed stamden. Both classes that have SO much more to utilize than a stam sorc.

So. As a stam sorc main for a long time now. Im asking you to not ruin this already neglected class. Please. We need the 3rd bar to make up for the buffs and damage that we dont get in this class. I dont get minor berserk. Crit passives. Fracture. Endurance. No none of those. In fact its mind boggling that you would give a class like stam blade fracture and NOT give it to stam sorc. Stamblade has so much more, why? Ill never understand. But the point is that i use that bar for more buffs to make up for what you dont give it. And, again, that other bar is one of the only 2 real reasons to play a stam sorc. And as of right now you're kind of taking them both away. Please reconsider.

eso_lags · September 2018

And something else too. Im used to seeing nothing much when it comes to stam sorc on the patch notes. For a long time now. Ya sometimes they'll throw us something like the change to bound armor or the changes to dark deal and hurricane years ago. But im used to going to the sorc section and just seeing mag sorc stuff. And thats fine. But to think that you would nerf this class in any way is truly mind blowing.

All you need to do is add a morph that keeps the 3rd bar. The other morph and base skill can get the new changes. Thats how you solve two problems here.

When you think of a stamplar you think of purify, tankiness, power of the light, jab spamming. When you think of a nightblade you think of cloak, teleportation, ganker, hard hitting, incap, fear.. When you think of a stamden you think of pets, shalks, cliff racer, healing, frost shield, ult regen, bear... When you think of a stam DK you think of poison, leaps, healing, tankiness, wings, corrosive armor, volatile armor...

Every stamina class has an identity. That identity offers a lot. Like for example, while you think of all those things when thinking of stamblade you arent thinking of the synergy of abilities. Fear and maim. Surprise attack and fracture. Incap and defile/damage buff. Spectral bow and minor berserk/major endurance. Cloak/fear/surprise attack and resistance passives. And much more. It all goes together well.

Now when you think of stam sorc most of you probably think of dark deal and hurricane... Maybe overload if you've played a stam sorc. But like i said hurricane is not a reason to play the class like overload and dark deal are. And whats worse is that there is no synergy between abilities and passives, like on a stamblade. No crazy buffs. No 5 light attacks for a bow that hits harder than every ult in the game. No. You get what you get. I thought stam sorc was fine. Not the best class but good for open world. Good for pve. Good for duels. Not OP but good. Dont take away the identity and what little we have.

LiquidPony · September 2018

I assume this is speaking from a pure PvP perspective?

Because in PvE, stamsorcs do a have a damage ultimate, which is also the cool unique thing they bring to the table. Greater Storm Atro does very good damage and gives out that excellent Major Berserk buff to a lucky DPS.

Also, stamsorcs do have a unique damage buff as well via the +12% LA damage from Bound Armaments.

Stamsorcs are in a better place in PvE this patch than they were in the last, despite nothing in the patch notes specifically buffing them. I'm solo parsing higher on a 6mil skeleton than I was on a 3mil last patch, due to the decreased cost of Crushing Weapon, the change of the Absorb Stamina glyph to physical damage, and the changes to how glyphs proc.

And some of the other stuff ... well, stamsorcs get +20% stam regen that stacks on top of Endurance, +5% max stam from Bound Armaments, 15% reduced ulti cost, +20% health regen, 5% stamina skill cost reduction, easy 100% uptime on Major Ward/Major Resolve/Minor Expedition, 5% physical damage increase, passive execute damage, and the weapon damage boosts from the Expert Mage passive.

eso_lags · September 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

I assume this is speaking from a pure PvP perspective?

Because in PvE, stamsorcs do a have a damage ultimate, which is also the cool unique thing they bring to the table. Greater Storm Atro does very good damage and gives out that excellent Major Berserk buff to a lucky DPS.

Also, stamsorcs do have a unique damage buff as well via the +12% LA damage from Bound Armaments.

Stamsorcs are in a better place in PvE this patch than they were in the last, despite nothing in the patch notes specifically buffing them. I'm solo parsing higher on a 6mil skeleton than I was on a 3mil last patch, due to the decreased cost of Crushing Weapon, the change of the Absorb Stamina glyph to physical damage, and the changes to how glyphs proc.

And some of the other stuff ... well, stamsorcs get +20% stam regen that stacks on top of Endurance, +5% max stam from Bound Armaments, 15% reduced ulti cost, +20% health regen, 5% stamina skill cost reduction, easy 100% uptime on Major Ward/Major Resolve/Minor Expedition, 5% physical damage increase, passive execute damage, and the weapon damage boosts from the Expert Mage passive.

Yes this is a pvp perspective. And ya sure they are in a good spot for pve but lets compare those things you listed to some other classes.

Stam sorc has no spam-able damaging skills. Just hurricane. And every class has an easy way to keep up ward/resolve..1 skill buffs it and thats that. Also no damaging ultimate's (you can say the atro is good but its not really good for pvp nor is it physical damage)..

So lets go over everything
Skills:
- Bound armor and 8% max stam/11% light attack damage
- Hurricane and major ward/resolve & minor expedition
- crit surge - healing
- dark deal - healing and sustain
- overload (for now anyway)
Passives:
-5% stam cost reduction
- Persistence passive (15% cost reduction after blocking an attack)
- 15% ultimate reduction
- 20% health and stam recov (if you choose to slot bound armor)
- 5% physical damage
- implosion
- 2% weapon damage for each class skill slotted (max on damage bar might be 3 but is usually 1 for me)

Now lets look at stamblade

Skills:
- Incap - huge damage ult with 20% increased damage for 6 seconds, knock down, and major defile for 6 seconds
- Soul siphon (healing ultimate)
- killers blade (execute)
- blur - major evasion and expedition/minor resistance buffs
- mark target - fracture
- relentless focus - minor berserk, minor endurance, and a spec bow that hits harder than any ultimate in the game
- surprise attack - fracture and class spam-able damage skill
- cloak - guaranteed crit or healing ability and massive kite skill
- fear - minor maim, very deceptive CC, and snare
- shadow image - teleportation and minor maim
- leeching strikes - healing and sustain
- power extraction - aoe damage and major brutality
- ambush - empower, class damage, gap closer
- malevolent offering - class healing at a health cost

Passive buffs:
- master assassin - 10% crit while in stealth and 100% stun duration from sneak
- executioner - restores stam after killing an enemy with a assassin ability
- pressure points - increases crit (stacks with major/minor savagery)
- hemorrhage - increases your crit damage by 10% and grants minor savagery
- refreshing shadows - 15% health, stam, and mag recovery
- shadow barrier - major ward and resolve for 6 seconds with a time increase if wearing heavy (easy to proc since surprise attack is main spam-able)
- dark vigor - max health buff by 3% for each shadow ability slotted (usually 1-2 on each bar)
- dark veil - increased duration of shadow abilities by 15% (mainly cloak on stamblade)
- catalyst - 20 ultimate every time you drink a potion
- soul siphoner - 3% healing for each siphoning ability slotted
- transfer - casting a siphoning ability grants 1 ultimate every 4 seconds

So can you see the difference? Nearly every skill the class has can be useful. Some skills are just brokenly strong. Nearly every single passive is useful. In fact i only left out one because it gives max mag for each siphoning ability slotted. Yes its max mag but stamblades rely heavily on cloak and fear so its helpful. So really every passive is useful.

This is the gap between a class like stamblade and stam sorc. The comparison is night and day. And when a stamblade uses combos like fear-incap-bow or incap-bow to hit you with the spec bow, that hits harder than any ult in the game, its tough to survive. They have so much to offer. So much to utilize. Too much imo.

And i could do this for every class and every class would come out with more. Stamplar might have less than the other classes but having a class dmg ult, class damage spam-able (that hits hard AF), slows, and power of the light, put it in a much better place than stam sorc...

If you're talking pve then thats a different conversation to have. But all im really saying in this thread is to please not take away one of the few things that stam sorc has to make them an actual class in pvp. The only 2 things that stand out are dark deal and overload. Crit surge and hurricane are amazing but dark deal and overload are extremely important for a pvp stam sorc.

MashmalloMan · September 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

I assume this is speaking from a pure PvP perspective?

Because in PvE, stamsorcs do a have a damage ultimate, which is also the cool unique thing they bring to the table. Greater Storm Atro does very good damage and gives out that excellent Major Berserk buff to a lucky DPS.

Also, stamsorcs do have a unique damage buff as well via the +12% LA damage from Bound Armaments.

Stamsorcs are in a better place in PvE this patch than they were in the last, despite nothing in the patch notes specifically buffing them. I'm solo parsing higher on a 6mil skeleton than I was on a 3mil last patch, due to the decreased cost of Crushing Weapon, the change of the Absorb Stamina glyph to physical damage, and the changes to how glyphs proc.

And some of the other stuff ... well, stamsorcs get +20% stam regen that stacks on top of Endurance, +5% max stam from Bound Armaments, 15% reduced ulti cost, +20% health regen, 5% stamina skill cost reduction, easy 100% uptime on Major Ward/Major Resolve/Minor Expedition, 5% physical damage increase, passive execute damage, and the weapon damage boosts from the Expert Mage passive.

Yeah, but you realize the same reason stam sorc's parse higher on pts is the same things other stam characters have access to. So technically we are ALL parsing higher. Stam sorc's didn't receive any attention this patch and it just proves what OP is talking about.

I touch on this here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5466336#Comment_5466336

Also it's 11% light attack DMG and 8% max stamina. We received indirect buffs because we happen to be using so many of the skills that are available to every class. That synergy is there, but only by a small stretch in comparison. Absorb stamina (5% physical dmg passive), higher uptime on berserker weapon enchant (+2% weapon dmg passive per sorc ability).

There is a bigger issue that OP brings up, there is nothing interesting when you nerf the already minimal unique skills stam sorc's have. It's becoming even MORE of basic weapon skill line class.

BlackLabel · September 2018

Leave dark deal and overload alone and give us a spamable already pls @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_GaryA

Armann · September 2018

Crystal Blast is a good candidate for a stam morph. They've been buffing this in the past to make it more attractive, but people want the Crystal Frag proc.

Why not resolve this issue of one morph being unpopular once and for all by merging the current Crystal Blast hardcast with the Crystal Frag proc into one morph which leaves one morph open to be reworked into a stam morph.

WreckfulAbandon · September 2018

But hey it's all good, now Evasion will make DBoS + Hurricane hit less hard.

Oh wait...

Crixus8000 · September 2018

I will stick with stamsorc after the nerfs and get used to it having pretty much nothing going for it. And one day maybe I will read some patch notes far, far into the future and see stamsorcs getting a stam ult, a spammable maybe, not having to slot bound armaments on both bars for a buff others get for free and a change to make countless unusable passives actually useful. One can dream.

eso_lags · September 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I will stick with stamsorc after the nerfs and get used to it having pretty much nothing going for it. And one day maybe I will read some patch notes far, far into the future and see stamsorcs getting a stam ult, a spammable maybe, not having to slot bound armaments on both bars for a buff others get for free and a change to make countless unusable passives actually useful. One can dream.

What buff are you referring to with bound armor? And i highly doubt we will ever get a spammable.

Stam sorc is the class in this game that will always have the least to work with. You will always have to make up for something on stam sorc. But that doesnt mean its bad it just means you have to try a bit harder and find what works.. But certain things are not possible on stam sorc.. Something like "inate axiom" is a set that is 1000% useless to use and you cant say that for any other class. And i dont think they will ever change most things. Maybe we will get buffs but these nerfs are soooo uncalled for.

Crixus8000 · September 2018

itzTJ wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I will stick with stamsorc after the nerfs and get used to it having pretty much nothing going for it. And one day maybe I will read some patch notes far, far into the future and see stamsorcs getting a stam ult, a spammable maybe, not having to slot bound armaments on both bars for a buff others get for free and a change to make countless unusable passives actually useful. One can dream.

What buff are you referring to with bound armor? And i highly doubt we will ever get a spammable.

Stam sorc is the class in this game that will always have the least to work with. You will always have to make up for something on stam sorc. But that doesnt mean its bad it just means you have to try a bit harder and find what works.. But certain things are not possible on stam sorc.. Something like "inate axiom" is a set that is 1000% useless to use and you cant say that for any other class. And i dont think they will ever change most things. Maybe we will get buffs but these nerfs are soooo uncalled for.

the passive that gives 20% stam and hp rec, to get that on both bars you basically need to slot bound armaments on both bars.

And yeah I doubt stamsorc will ever get much, but that will always mean most other stam classes can do our job just better. If our entire skill bar is mostly weapon skills, and we are missing lots of passives then we will always be lacking.

eso_lags · September 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I will stick with stamsorc after the nerfs and get used to it having pretty much nothing going for it. And one day maybe I will read some patch notes far, far into the future and see stamsorcs getting a stam ult, a spammable maybe, not having to slot bound armaments on both bars for a buff others get for free and a change to make countless unusable passives actually useful. One can dream.

What buff are you referring to with bound armor? And i highly doubt we will ever get a spammable.

Stam sorc is the class in this game that will always have the least to work with. You will always have to make up for something on stam sorc. But that doesnt mean its bad it just means you have to try a bit harder and find what works.. But certain things are not possible on stam sorc.. Something like "inate axiom" is a set that is 1000% useless to use and you cant say that for any other class. And i dont think they will ever change most things. Maybe we will get buffs but these nerfs are soooo uncalled for.

the passive that gives 20% stam and hp rec, to get that on both bars you basically need to slot bound armaments on both bars.

And yeah I doubt stamsorc will ever get much, but that will always mean most other stam classes can do our job just better. If our entire skill bar is mostly weapon skills, and we are missing lots of passives then we will always be lacking.

Pretty much. If you look at the skills and passives i listed for nightblade you can see how drastic the difference is. You can see how being sneaky, utilizing cloak, and stunning from cloak all goes together perfectly. The skills and passives synergies completely. The class has an identity. And people know what that is..

Our class has an identity but theres a thin line. Overload is something that makes it and removing it so absurd to do.

leepalmer95 · September 2018

Things that made stam sorc unique for me:

Speed in the form of minor expedition + streak.
3rd bar used for utility.
Amazing sustain in the form of dark deal.

The speed is no longer unique because of swift, now everyone is running around at max speed.
the 3rd bar is gone
Dark deal got a sustain nerf and it's not unique in its good sustain anymore as other classes have better sustain skills now in the form of netch, templar rune and nb siphon.

So all it really has for it now is streak which isn't that good considering most people are at 100% movement speed and either gap close you immediately or sprint the 15m is like 1s anyway.

Crixus8000 · September 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Things that made stam sorc unique for me:

Speed in the form of minor expedition + streak.
3rd bar used for utility.
Amazing sustain in the form of dark deal.

The speed is no longer unique because of swift, now everyone is running around at max speed.
the 3rd bar is gone
Dark deal got a sustain nerf and it's not unique in its good sustain anymore as other classes have better sustain skills now in the form of netch, templar rune and nb siphon.

So all it really has for it now is streak which isn't that good considering most people are at 100% movement speed and either gap close you immediately or sprint the 15m is like 1s anyway.

Well said. And Yeah, streak has so many issues. Very clunky where it stops your momentum so it was basically wasted magicka, too costly, moves you too short a distance ect

eso_lags · September 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Things that made stam sorc unique for me:

Speed in the form of minor expedition + streak.
3rd bar used for utility.
Amazing sustain in the form of dark deal.

The speed is no longer unique because of swift, now everyone is running around at max speed.
the 3rd bar is gone
Dark deal got a sustain nerf and it's not unique in its good sustain anymore as other classes have better sustain skills now in the form of netch, templar rune and nb siphon.

So all it really has for it now is streak which isn't that good considering most people are at 100% movement speed and either gap close you immediately or sprint the 15m is like 1s anyway.

Yes very well said. Personally i dont count streak much anymore. Its on my overload bar for emergencies or to kite people (but rip that now if this goes through).. If you had asked me back around one tamriel then i would have thought differently. But I havent been using it in the last year. But im not much of a gap closer person anyway. If they run from me ill just chase them and find them

But ya this is what im saying. I main stam sorc for 2 reasons. One because its epic in open world because of its ability to kite and sustain with dark deal, streak, and speed. And because crit surge gives you some decent heals.. And two is that i enjoy dueling with it. I enjoy playing it. Its certainly the class with the smallest amount of skills and passives to work with but, like any class, if you play it right you can do well..

Just another pointless choice by zos... Like removing the 1 piece effects from VMA/DSA weapons only to bring in black rose weapons that now have the 1 piece back. But as far as i know the old arena weapons dont. Im sure they will adjust the old weapons after murkmire has sold its fair share, but its not as of now.

This choice is so sad because i doubt anyone from zos will see the few stam sorcs who actually play the class and listen to us. I cant even post on the sorcerer feedback thread because of what they did to shields. Ill probably be ran out of town if i bring up stam sorc over there.

Regardless if someone at zos sees this, or the stam sorc class rep, please re think this. Listen to the few stam sorc players you have before you have none. Go check the polls on the forums. We are the least played class on every poll ive ever come across... But some of us main this class and know a bad decision when we see it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

eso_lags · September 2018

Well im pretty sure the class rep for sorcerer is @teaser ... I was looking through some class rep threads and saw him talking about stam sorc with someone. So if you see this, and you and zos are still communicating about sorc, then can you relay this message about overload and maybe even dark deal.

And if you are the mag sorc representative then im guessing you are a mag sorc main and im guessing you have deleted the game.

Idek if they split the class reps between mag and stam or tanks and healers and dps.. Who knows.

Gnozo · September 2018

I will tell you my stamsorc skill setup:

S&B:
Ransack, Reverb, Streak, Vigor, Bound Armaments - Overload
2h:
Dark Deal, Executioner, Hurricane, Rally, Bound Armaments - Dawnbreaker

Due to using Bound Armaments i need my Overload Bar for putting in these skils:

Caltrops, Rapid, Shuffle, Crit Surge, Flex Spot.

Was really unique and gave stamsorc some really nice group synergy due to being able to cast rapid and caltrops cause other sorc skills have 0 group synergies.

Now this is gone. Deal deal nerf and Overload nerf..... Thanks.

troomar · September 2018

itzTJ wrote: »

Well im pretty sure the class rep for sorcerer is @teaser ... I was looking through some class rep threads and saw him talking about stam sorc with someone. So if you see this, and you and zos are still communicating about sorc, then can you relay this message about overload and maybe even dark deal.

And if you are the mag sorc representative then im guessing you are a mag sorc main and im guessing you have deleted the game.

Idek if they split the class reps between mag and stam or tanks and healers and dps.. Who knows.

It's @Tasear and it's her. And her primary domain is a Sorc Healer. I'm not sure if she is playing any DPS Sorcerer in end-game.

But it's a good question - who, from our sorc reps, is playing stamSorc as his main toon? In both PvP and PvE? Because it looks like it's actually nobody (or at least for PvE it's nobody). When I check Sorcerer Discord, there is a <*** matter>storm about magSorcs. A bit smaller storm about PvP stamSorcs. What about PvE stamSorcs? There is a joke about stamBlades, 1 screenshot with a DPS parse from PTS and that's it. Nobody cares, nobody complains, nobody asks what we would like to see (well, they know, but it's not gonna happen obviously).

I'm quite indifferent to the changes, because for PvE, there is neither buff nor nerf. Nothing. We got nothing. Nobody cares.

Overload - Nobody was using it in PvE on a stamSorc. After the patch I'm not going to use it, because I need an ultimate for burst damage (Ballista). It's the same reason why Atronach is not used by stamSorcs. The damage it provides is good (plus a unique synergy), but we don't need it, because we need burst damage to deal with mechanics.
Dark Deal - It's not a skill that is used on a stamSorc bar, although it can be used in some very limited situations. But generally there is no change for us.

Now with Minor buffs being increased in effect, we stamSorcs are again out of the game, because we can't provide any of these minor buffs.

eso_lags · September 2018

troomar wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

Well im pretty sure the class rep for sorcerer is @teaser ... I was looking through some class rep threads and saw him talking about stam sorc with someone. So if you see this, and you and zos are still communicating about sorc, then can you relay this message about overload and maybe even dark deal.

And if you are the mag sorc representative then im guessing you are a mag sorc main and im guessing you have deleted the game.

Idek if they split the class reps between mag and stam or tanks and healers and dps.. Who knows.

It's @Tasear and it's her. And her primary domain is a Sorc Healer. I'm not sure if she is playing any DPS Sorcerer in end-game.

But it's a good question - who, from our sorc reps, is playing stamSorc as his main toon? In both PvP and PvE? Because it looks like it's actually nobody (or at least for PvE it's nobody). When I check Sorcerer Discord, there is a <*** matter>storm about magSorcs. A bit smaller storm about PvP stamSorcs. What about PvE stamSorcs? There is a joke about stamBlades, 1 screenshot with a DPS parse from PTS and that's it. Nobody cares, nobody complains, nobody asks what we would like to see (well, they know, but it's not gonna happen obviously).

I'm quite indifferent to the changes, because for PvE, there is neither buff nor nerf. Nothing. We got nothing. Nobody cares.

Overload - Nobody was using it in PvE on a stamSorc. After the patch I'm not going to use it, because I need an ultimate for burst damage (Ballista). It's the same reason why Atronach is not used by stamSorcs. The damage it provides is good (plus a unique synergy), but we don't need it, because we need burst damage to deal with mechanics.
Dark Deal - It's not a skill that is used on a stamSorc bar, although it can be used in some very limited situations. But generally there is no change for us.

Now with Minor buffs being increased in effect, we stamSorcs are again out of the game, because we can't provide any of these minor buffs.

But this is also what im saying! Look at what they did to stamplar. AWESOME changes, at least for pvp. And they keep buffing stamplar often. Stamden gets adjusted. Stamblades are always OP. Always. Stam dk has a lot to offer but could be better. But what does stam sorc have? What does stam sorc ever get? NOTHING!

We never get anything and a lot of us do not complain about that. We accept what we have and work with it. But dont take away the only stuff we have to compensate for what you will not give us. Especially when you never buff the class while buffing every other class.

If the changes go through i will be maining stam sorc and stamplar instead of just stam sorc. I love stam sorc but if this goes through they are destroying us for pvp. Stamplar got such cool buffs i wish we would get something but at least dont neuter us.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler

EL3ZD33 · September 2018

We lose crit (reduction for crit surge), supply nothing to the group, no longer having access to an extra bar to supply skills that we need due to passively and buffs that we lack, and a sustain nerf in dark deal.

Anyone can put on relequen and hit higher than a stamsorc in pve, saying it hits harder than ever is still hitting less than everything else (comparable to a stamdk).

The class is officially ruined. Come 4 weeks time 3 years later I’m going to find a hard time playing this game without account based achievements or anything.

May as well play something else which I really don’t want to as stamsorc is bae.

Honestly the nerfs are too much for too long. Any class can wear two to three damage sets yet a stamsorc has to at least hold one defense set or troll king (solo). I can’t handle it anymore.

We lack everything and have nothing. It really is quite sad. Oh yeah DB and spin to win potatoes but no one decent. Or just be a negate spammer and negate all damage output you have. Any stam class can literally do anything better bar the negate spam which you crutch on a group for. Or crutch on heals for anything else viable.

Give us the instant cast dark deal HoT or sustain at least because we have no crit, no buffs and nothing except implosion. Woop de doo.

I fully support this thread.

BlackLabel · September 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Things that made stam sorc unique for me:

Speed in the form of minor expedition + streak.
3rd bar used for utility.
Amazing sustain in the form of dark deal.

The speed is no longer unique because of swift, now everyone is running around at max speed.
the 3rd bar is gone
Dark deal got a sustain nerf and it's not unique in its good sustain anymore as other classes have better sustain skills now in the form of netch, templar rune and nb siphon.

So all it really has for it now is streak which isn't that good considering most people are at 100% movement speed and either gap close you immediately or sprint the 15m is like 1s anyway.

Couldn’t have said it better. Gj

DoobZ69 · September 2018

The Stam Sorc is a forgotten creature because ZOS made it that way.
Rerolled to a DK tank. Years of achievements and play with a character down the drain. With a loss of the Overload's 3rd bar I am forced to equip the same number of skills as a DK and in a straight comparison Sorc is no match. In a war of space for skills the better ones will always make for a superior class. Put simply, for tanking:

DK Ultis 3 > Sorc ultis 0
DK passives 11 > Sorc passives 7
DK Talons > Sorc Encase
DK Igneous Shield > Sorc Ward
DK Green Dragon Blood > Sorc Dark Deal
DK Hardened Armor > Sorc Lightning Form

DK melee range 7 meters > Sorc melee range 5 meters

With a 3rd bar I could have Vigor to make up for some healing, Circle of Protection to make up for sustain and damage reduction to myself and my group, Rapids for getting group out of snares and away from dangerous mechanics, Crit Surge for extra healing and damage. The ulti will be replaced by another ulti purely for a passive regen.

Rerolled and unsubscribed. It seems I can only vote with my wallet and I believe in Democracy.

felipenepub17_ESO · September 2018

Please Zenimax, do not destroy stamsorcs. Stamsorcs need the overload bar and dark deal in order to be playable in PVP due to the lack of a stam spammable skill or stam curse.

At least change the passives requirement for gaining the Stamina and Health regain. We dont have room on our bar anymore to slot bound armaments on both bars for PVP in order to get the regens passives since we are losing the overload bar!!!! That´s minimum.

Thraben · September 2018

I can only say the best compromise would be to allow Weapon skills on the Overload bar. They would be conjured within the skills animation and also fade away after it. Fighting with a version of the "Bound Weapons" spell is what being a StamSorc is all about in previous Elder Scrolls games after all.
Since the weapon passives would not apply, the conjured version of the Weapon Skills in OL mode would automatically be balanced. It could give Dual wield Stamsorc access to a gapcloser and Forward Momentum, or a typical Twohanded/Shield StamSorcs a much sought after ranged bow skill and the major Evasion buff.

The OL light attack could still be weaved like on the PTS.

One OL morph for magicka, one with physical damage. One day working time on the animation and the code by Zeni, and it would work.

Both the few supporter of the new Overload (including the Devs) and the overwhelming majority of those who hate the changes would be happy with that.

eso_lags · September 2018

Happy that others realize this as well. Now lets hope zos realizes it. I would honestly love to get a comment from someone @ zos on why some classes, like stamblade, are soooo far above other classes, like stam sorcs, when it comes to what they have to offer.

Just look at the skills and passives i listed, from both classes, a few posts up in this thread. Look at that comparison and then explain to me why you would nerf this class in any way. I would love to hear someone at zos explain it because it is mind blowing. Compare the classes and enlighten me.

And i realize you are trying to nerf mag sorc. Mag sorc is a strong class ( the shield nerf is a little over the top) but you have to remember that you have a neglected other half to the class that you are killing when you nerf things like overload. I MEAN FFS YOU DONT GIVE US A DAMNED CLASS ULTIMATE SO WHY TOUCH THE ONLY ONE WE HAVE COME TO RELY ON!!??

im gonna get aggravated again if i keep typing. Its just mind boggling to me. Zos. Please at least buff our class before you nerf it. Because you buffed it once, with hurricane and dark deal, and then you never touched it again. The 2 useful buffs. The first and the last. Someone is making bad decisions at zos that is going to cost you money and players.

KatzMainTank · September 2018

eso_lags · September 2018

#buffstamsorc

MashmalloMan · September 2018

Although I am in complete agreement that I'm tired of my favourite class being neglected and forgotten because we are doing "okay".. something to remember is what was said in the class rep meeting for August. I've condensed the notes that pertain to stam sorc's in the quote below.

I'm disappointed that this patch the "sustain being addressed for all classes" meant a nerf on Dark Deal and a bunch of changes for mag sorc (what's new, it's like healer/tank/stam dd only exist as an afterthought). Expecting something to help us in pve, where our rotations and sustain is one of the worst of all classes forcing us to invest in to stam regen and losing on dps.

My biggest gripe is we barely got any changes and the changes we did receive were essentially nerfs. My only point is to hold out for hope. This patch was not meant to fix EVERY concern we had. In the quote you will see what was being looked in to and what they want to fix going forward past update 20. We didn't get the sustain buff some other classes received, but I'm holding out hope that with the changes to Dark Deal, we can buff the 20 second stam return and make the skill insta cast. We shall see by week 3 of pts.

Edit: Added comments in bold beside some of the changes. Started to get more annoyed the more I realized the things they touched on were so off base.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

ZOS’s high-level goals and things actively being worked on for update 20
Smaller number of high impact changes

Harness Magicka and Conjured Ward skills are overshadowing and diminishing the role of healers

Light and Medium Armor do not compare favorably to Heavy Armor (mostly in PvP: it’s easier to get good damage, sustain, and mitigation from heavy) (We received +3% weapon dmg, drop your heavy armor set's now guys - medium is BACK. /s)

Duel Wield is an end-game PvE requirement because of the Blade Cloak skill (Solution, nerf evasion and provide unique blade cloak buff to medium armor........... NICE)

Want to get class DPS and resource regeneration more in tune with each other (Guess we we're forgotten or overperforming with the nerf to Dark Deal lol)

Specific Class goals for update 20

Sorcerers:
Bound Armor needs to be more worthwhile (For tanks I guess?.. Still not worthwhile. Make it a DPS skill not some shoehorned tank ability no one asked for. What a boring skill that we are required to slot as DD to be competitive in pve. This would of been a great opportunity to mix up our rotations for stam sorc's to get a unique ability. I suppose tanks really need 11% light atk dmg right?)

The Overload skill is awkward with the class kit: it’s either a gank gimmick or not used much. (So let's completely change it to be weavable, cost a rediuclously large amount and remove the unique 3rd bar. Keep 2 morphs both doing shock DMG so stam sorc's get no synergy out of it. NICE /s)

ZOS is working on making sure CC mechanics, specifically breaking free and CC immunity, are more reliable. (They actually did this one.)

Goals beyond Update 20 that ZOS is currently working on:
Make Streak ability work better on uneven terrain

Improve the unique feel of each class

Some classes need better resource regeneration while blocking

After this, ZOS asked if any points not listed above needed emphasis. Class reps responded:
Stamina classes, in particular Dragonknight and Sorcerer, need to get more out of their native kit and feel a better sense of identity rather than just a collection of weapon abilities.
Stamina diversity in DPS is also lacking as gear and weapon bars are almost identical between classes.

We talked about giving an instant cast option for a lower damaging Crystal Blast morph

[*] High burst damage from stealth (mostly via Snipe and Overload) needed better ques (as opposed to flat nerfs). ZOS told us they were working on bugs (such as Snipe health desynchs) to help and suggested that they may look into PvP burst damage more generally
[*] PvE DPS diversity is a huge pain point. This lead to a more in-depth discussion.
[/list]

PVE diversity.
The class minor buffs that they are currently providing (such as minor sorcery and minor savagery) are too small. It’s better just to load up on the “BiS” DPS class
The Nightblade class brings the highest DPS and is the only one that feels fluid. The other 4 classes often bottom out on sustain, while the Nightblade keeps doing its smooth rotation.
The Nightblade can do this with blue max stat food; the other classes don’t even keep up with sustain drinks

The other classes could devote more into resource management, but while doing so addresses the issue with their rotations, they’re further behind in DPS

We’d like the Nightblade to be the model for the other classes

ZOS acknowledged this and pointed out a solution may not be easy as they want to avoid the danger of making each class necessary to complete a trial.
They indicated they are looking for a fine balance between these extremes and to chip away at the problem to get to where we’d all like to go

Other issues brought up:
Absorb Stamina glyphs doing magicka damage went on the list to be changed.

Healing/Tanking Diversity
ZOS indicated there are looking at the discrepancy of stamina regeneration while blocking for all tanks

ZOS then indicated having classes bring unique gameplay was a long-term goal for beyond Update 20.

Question and Answers:

Stamina players are at a disadvantage when it comes to synergies because most of them do magic damage and scale of magicka stats.
ZOS acknowledged the discrepancy

This lead to a more specific discussion about synergies.

It was agreed that certain ranged synergies such as from Inner Fire and Trapping Webs were too restrictive in who was eligible to activate them (range is too narrow, angle is too acute, only one specific target, etc.).

eso_lags · September 2018

@Marshall1289

Sorcerers:
Bound Armor needs to be more worthwhile
The Overload skill is awkward with the class kit: it’s either a gank gimmick or not used much
Crystal Fragments needs to be more cost effective

WHAT? Who is the stam sorc class rep? Someone who only plays pve apparently. Awesome.

MashmalloMan · September 2018

itzTJ wrote: »

@Marshall1289

Sorcerers:
Bound Armor needs to be more worthwhile
The Overload skill is awkward with the class kit: it’s either a gank gimmick or not used much
Crystal Fragments needs to be more cost effective

WHAT? Who is the stam sorc class rep? Someone who only plays pve apparently. Awesome.

I edited some comments in about those too.

Anyway, aggravation aside. There are some things that they still plan on changing in the future that were not meant for this patch. So fingers crossed.

Thraben · September 2018

There was not even an active Sorc class rep, not even speaking of StamSorc. The Healer representative had to take over, and she´s as horrified about the OL bar thing as most StamSorcs are.

An Air Atronach, and conjured Weapon skills permitted on the (physical) OL bar, and not much more would be needed to make the class more fun than ever.