What Do You Guys Feel Needs To Be Buffed With Sorc?

Septimus_Magna · September 2018

Non pet mag sorc is literally a poor man’s version of a magblade. One class AoE, one single target DoT but without any of the good stuff.

Besides better dps, magblades have better sustain, better ult gen, self-healing and a very powerful pve execute.

Its time magsorcs get a skill thats hard to manage like Grim Focus to raise the dps ceiling. Improve one of the Mages Fury morphs to actually deal decent dmg during execute. And do something about the terrible sustain.

Concerning stam sorc I honestly dont even know where to start.

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

@DDuke

Its funny how you come now in NON-CP mode talking about your statistics and with TOOLTIP damage while back then you where claiming that rune cage deals 9k damage TO PLAYERS in cp campain. YOUR sets used DO NOT WORK in reality, unless youre in a group with healers. I play alone that glassy builds can never work for solo play neither for duels. If you insist it works @Nicko_Lps add me and duel me. Until then find a better argument because we can always use 0 brain tactics and come up with 3 proc sets in magblade+stamblade to ensure they are the best dps classes.

If you recall our posts where deleted, but if Derra is your friend ask him since he was a part of this conversation he would remember your great math and the unforgettable 9k cage damage to players in cp campain. Because i took you seriously back then, ive proved you how wrong you are simply because you forgot to calculate the defensive CP and you came up with 110k burst magsorc while you efficiently taken account of offensive CP like a math pro you are.

As ive said before in case you missed it, i never used cage(before the nerf) and probably never will. Did not need cage to emp myself in vivec entirely alone, without groups+buffs+mutagens+APbuff+ICflagswapping.

My ward is like 11k, as ive said in case youre blind ive taken many times bow procs of 15k(magblade), now if you add soul harvest before that you successfully burst both shields in 1 sec.

But i know 15k bow proc+7-8k SH+LA+DoT+ swallow soul are all completely balanced things along with the shade 15% dmg reduction with swallow soul heals with refreshing path heals with perm maj ward+maj resolve without slotting any skill and with perm maj expedition.

Curse+frag+fury is broken. <----Your brain.

templesus · September 2018

Apherius wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Nothing, class is balanced as is. Only specs that need balancing are stamblade in PvE and PvP, magblade in PvE, and stam wardens in PvP. And all of the aforementioned need nerfs.

Please tell me how the class is balanced

Worst sustain, lowest PvE DPS, doesn't even have the best burst, one-trick pony, no self-healing...

The class is nothing but downsides. To be balanced, a class needs to have appropriate strengths to accompany the weaknesses...and Sorcs have a whole lot of weaknesses.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, by the way. I genuinely want you to tell me why you think the class is balanced to gain a better understanding of why some people think this class doesn't deserve buffs.

Personally, I think the classes you mention are great, and I want to see the underperforming classes all brought up to their level.

Mag sorcs are still taken into trials because of their utility. Each class should bring utility to a trial group and those without said utility should do more dps then those with utility. That is called balance.

Given, NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility, so that’s why you see 8 nb groups with a sorc and dk tank and Templar and Warden healer.

In terms of DPS in a raid parse it should go as follows; Warden=Nb 2k>Templar=Dk 1k>Sorc

Sorc should have the lowest because of its unique synergy, as well as the minor prophecy and major berserk it provides. Given, at 1k less then Templar and DK it is still competitive. NB and Warden with virtually no utility, only of which being Master Architect, should pull numbers above the rest.

The only buff I believe Magsorc needs is a buff to DW. I miss my DW mag sorc with a passion.

for me balance in PVE for DD is all about sustain, damage and utility and skills that reward skilful gameplay.

Mag sorc are still taken in trial because they provide liquid lightning synergy for alskosh uptime and minor prophecy ( = utility ), they pull correct damage but have the worst sustain.

NB provide minor savagery, heal allies and make healer useless in dungeons, sometimes you will raid in chat " lfm 1 heal or magblade " + provide major slayer to them and 2 allies thank to cheap incap and Master A. ( = utility ), pull the best damage and have the best sustain in PVE.

I agree with you when you say each class should bring utility in PVE, those without utility ( or those who bring less utility ), should deal more damage. But it's not just about utility and damage, it's also about sustain, and along with these 3 points come the most important ... All class should get skill(s) that reward skilful gameplay ( Merciless and siphonning attacks reward perfect weaving with increased damage and sustain ).

but I disagree with the rest of your comment, " NB with virtually no utility ?! " " NB is pulling way more dps then those with utility " ? Do you ever played magNB ?

let me also remind you that atro give major berserk during 8 sec to 1 ally ( and it cost 170 ultimate ! ). And most of the time a magNB will benefit from the synergy and make it even stronger lel.

I am speaking strictly for mag dps. Stamina is an entire different ballpark in terms of utility etc. So when I say magblade provides no utility, it’s true, the only utility it provides is Master Architect when speaking mag dps specific. I do not count using funnel health or refreshing path as utility because that results in Dps loss and is very trial specific.

And Nightblade does do far more dps then the other classes, pretty sure everyone knows that? Not sure why you disagree. Although I believe it should do more, not as much as it is doing currently.

DDuke · September 2018

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

@DDuke

Its funny how you come now in NON-CP mode talking about your statistics and with TOOLTIP damage while back then you where claiming that rune cage deals 9k damage TO PLAYERS in cp campain. YOUR sets used DO NOT WORK in reality, unless youre in a group with healers. I play alone that glassy builds can never work for solo play neither for duels. If you insist it works @Nicko_Lps add me and duel me. Until then find a better argument because we can always use 0 brain tactics and come up with 3 proc sets in magblade+stamblade to ensure they are the best dps classes.

I don't have my mSorc geared up right now, otherwise I'd be happy to teach you how to play your main class. Always happy to show how meditate works with zero sustain build on my NB or DK though - it's not much different.

Also, I said I can get Rune Cage to 9-10k damage tooltip when people were QQ'ing about only having 6,5k'ish tooltips in CP environment - and I did get it way over 9k.

Do I need to dig up those posts? The story goes like this: forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story.

Also, feel free to use any combination of proc sets (or full dmg sets) on a magblade or stamblade. I can guarantee a mSorc will deal more burst with those same sets equipped.

NB burst is naturally limited as it's a class without delayed damage, unlike literally every other class in game: DKs have FoO, Wardens have Shalks+birds with long travel time, Sorcs have Curse+Fury, Templars have Purifying Light/POTL...

No delayed damage=more limited 1GCD burst. Nothing wrong with that of course, it just is what it is.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

If you recall our posts where deleted, but if Derra is your friend ask him since he was a part of this conversation he would remember your great math and the unforgettable 9k cage damage to players in cp campain. Because i took you seriously back then, ive proved you how wrong you are simply because you forgot to calculate the defensive CP and you came up with 110k burst magsorc while you efficiently taken account of offensive CP like a math pro you are.

Yes, and I also came up with tooltip burst (very important distinction to make) numbers for other classes as well, did I not? After all, that's what I was comparing the sorc burst to.

If you want to know numbers after defensive modifiers it's also easy to calculate and doesn't really favour one class over the other because that's dependent on targets' mitigations, not your class.

This has proven to be too complicated to understand for many, so I've recently just compared non-CP numbers.

But please, come up with whatever build setup you can come up with for any class & I'll compare it to sorc burst. Then tell me CP allocation & target's mitigations and I'll factor those in just to prove my point.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

As ive said before in case you missed it, i never used cage(before the nerf) and probably never will. Did not need cage to emp myself in vivec entirely alone, without groups+buffs+mutagens+APbuff+ICflagswapping.

Cool story, I don't know what it matters though. Farming emperor (or "zerg stars" for that matter) is a matter of how much someone plays, not how well they play.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

My ward is like 11k, as ive said in case youre blind ive taken many times bow procs of 15k(magblade), now if you add soul harvest before that you successfully burst both shields in 1 sec.

But i know 15k bow proc+7-8k SH+LA+DoT+ swallow soul are all completely balanced things along with the shade 15% dmg reduction. Curse+frag+fury is broken. <----Your brain.

So your light armor (probably 7 divines or smth) sorc has taken big bow procs from NBs and that's now empirical evidence that NBs have the best burst in the game? This is exactly why you can't factor in personal experiences alone & try to deduce some deeper truth from that. By that logic my bowblade is now a god for doing this on a naked player with no CPs:

Obviously that's not what Lethal Arrow crits for normally, just as 15k isn't what Merciless will crit for on most occasions (atleast in noCP). You would know that, if you actually ever played a NB.

Luckily we can employ math to find the truth of things, rather than base everything on our (limited) personal experiences.

Adernath · September 2018

My wishlist:

- More sustain.
- The clannfear basic attack should drain the resources of its target to make it a viable option for PvP.
- Fix/improve the now useless Rune Cage
- Break free via streak
- Revert to old Frags or improve its damage to make up for the long casting speed

(Edited to include frags)

JackDaniell · September 2018

Change frags back! Otherwise sorc is just fine. Probably best LA spec to run in pvp at the moment.

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

@DDuke

You dont have your magsorc ready, but youre confident enough to say you will teach me how my class works. Well come with these sets and my confidence says you wont survive more than 2m.

No, you where not talking about tooltip burst, i clearly remember both me and Derra mentioning you THAT cant happen vs players while you started saying i play glassy builds and all think they dont work im god i make them work bla bla. No you where claiming 9k damage cage on player.

When someone is playing entirely ALONE means he/she earns kills + play many hours to get emp. Now if you think i zerg while i said clearly without groups+buffs+mutagens+APbuff+ICflagswapping. As ive said like 5 times, come duel me and find out how bad i am.

Its pretty much 100% known among GOOD players that a GOOD magsorc vs a GOOD magblade has no chance. Now if you think it does, make your magsorc and ill bring you a good magblade to duel. I can bet 1m gold and every mat i have you probably will be erased before 1m of the duel.

What you fail to realize is a sorc CANT be efficient and run impen. Specially vs magica classes that a magsorc can spam harness. Now if the burst destroy both shields in 1 sec or before they even be applied yes, it makes absolute sense that magblade burst is phenomenal no matter how much you refuse to accept it and the most amazing with magblades is their amazing heals mobility cloak+teleports while they can burst that hard. But im sure you have no idea how they work thats why you complain about magsorcs so much.
I am playing in Vivec as i stated before, vivec is CP campain. I know a couple of GOOD magblades with phenomenal sustain that manage to pull out 15k bow procs. If i kill most of the scrubs in 15 sec, like that glorious zergling general Magblade that survived me for like 10 sec, it does not mean magblade needs a buff.

Ive played a nb, i still have a nb bosmer but not a magblade. My magblade is in mount-leveling-mode.

Your math is always wrong and your high self confidence is the main problem here because you actually believe what you say to a point that even if you dont believe it you force yourself to believe it just because you said so.

Darkenarlol · September 2018

damn how i like it =D

so a bunch of loud but incompetent [removed comment]

forumblades keep trying to dictate how sorcs should be balanced, what they need and what they don't need... just lol

actually the question is - can forumblades gank sorc's balance thru forums and sabotaging class rep discords?

we'll see

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

JackDaniell wrote: »

Change frags back! Otherwise sorc is just fine. Probably best LA spec to run in pvp at the moment.

Change frags back to stun

Increase streak range and reduce its spam penalty, its pathetic to need 2 streaks to evade 1 gapcloser that costs 2k stam/mag

Buff sustain by giving surge a low efficiency treatment to work like siphoning attacks,but not as good because sorcs have cost reduction passives.

and ofcourse rework sorc ultis, they are awfull they are useless. With a cage build comet synergize fine, with a reach build sorc has 0 ultis to use since no player with IQ above 50 will actually not block comet.( No i wont use physical damage DBoS, or i will when staminators warder around with comet)

Shifting Atro is a must. As all classes have a GOOD ulti they can use sorcs deserve to have a good ulti too.

Negate should negate staminators too not only magica, the shifting negate i understand is a bit xtreme to go with but it would be an amazing punishment for those organized zerglings running around towers under 10+ earthgores

Now, a comet rework but chopping some damage off of it, making it instant or 1sec cast/land and making it as good and effective DBoS is for staminators will be a great goodie for both magsorcs+magplars. While magblades+magdks+magwardens that have good ultis could profit too because their is melee range only.

frostz417 · September 2018

Did you really suggest buffing implosion?

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

damn how i like it =D

so a bunch of loud but incompetent ( oh sorry daus is great at giving incaps into EG sphere - so pro so skilled lol lol)

forumblades keep trying to dictate how sorcs should be balanced, what they need and what they don't need... just lol

actually the question is - can forumblades gank sorc's balance thru forums and sabotaging class rep discords?

we'll see

Thats why MagDk became a useless class for a long time and sorc is about to become the second useless class, because forumblades aka whineblades are too strong for ZoS to leave unsatisfied.
Take your example here from our friend DDuke that was whining for sorcs before summerset hits live and keeps his good work so many months after while i failed to spot him even once on vivec that was burning my circuits + my GPU.

Nicko_Lps · September 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

damn how i like it =D

so a bunch of loud but incompetent ( oh sorry daus is great at giving incaps into EG sphere - so pro so skilled lol lol)

forumblades keep trying to dictate how sorcs should be balanced, what they need and what they don't need... just lol

actually the question is - can forumblades gank sorc's balance thru forums and sabotaging class rep discords?

we'll see

Thats why MagDk became a useless class for a long time and sorc is about to become the second useless class, because forumblades aka whineblades are too strong for ZoS to leave unsatisfied.
Take your example here from our friend DDuke that was whining for sorcs before summerset hits live and keeps his good work so many months after while i failed to spot him even once on vivec that was burning my circuits + my GPU.

Beardimus · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

@DDuke

Its funny how you come now in NON-CP mode talking about your statistics and with TOOLTIP damage while back then you where claiming that rune cage deals 9k damage TO PLAYERS in cp campain. YOUR sets used DO NOT WORK in reality, unless youre in a group with healers. I play alone that glassy builds can never work for solo play neither for duels. If you insist it works @Nicko_Lps add me and duel me. Until then find a better argument because we can always use 0 brain tactics and come up with 3 proc sets in magblade+stamblade to ensure they are the best dps classes.

I don't have my mSorc geared up right now, otherwise I'd be happy to teach you how to play your main class. Always happy to show how meditate works with zero sustain build on my NB or DK though - it's not much different.

Also, I said I can get Rune Cage to 9-10k damage tooltip when people were QQ'ing about only having 6,5k'ish tooltips in CP environment - and I did get it way over 9k.

Do I need to dig up those posts? The story goes like this: forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story.

Also, feel free to use any combination of proc sets (or full dmg sets) on a magblade or stamblade. I can guarantee a mSorc will deal more burst with those same sets equipped.

NB burst is naturally limited as it's a class without delayed damage, unlike literally every other class in game: DKs have FoO, Wardens have Shalks+birds with long travel time, Sorcs have Curse+Fury, Templars have Purifying Light/POTL...

No delayed damage=more limited 1GCD burst. Nothing wrong with that of course, it just is what it is.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

If you recall our posts where deleted, but if Derra is your friend ask him since he was a part of this conversation he would remember your great math and the unforgettable 9k cage damage to players in cp campain. Because i took you seriously back then, ive proved you how wrong you are simply because you forgot to calculate the defensive CP and you came up with 110k burst magsorc while you efficiently taken account of offensive CP like a math pro you are.

Yes, and I also came up with tooltip burst (very important distinction to make) numbers for other classes as well, did I not? After all, that's what I was comparing the sorc burst to.

If you want to know numbers after defensive modifiers it's also easy to calculate and doesn't really favour one class over the other because that's dependent on targets' mitigations, not your class.

This has proven to be too complicated to understand for many, so I've recently just compared non-CP numbers.

But please, come up with whatever build setup you can come up with for any class & I'll compare it to sorc burst. Then tell me CP allocation & target's mitigations and I'll factor those in just to prove my point.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

As ive said before in case you missed it, i never used cage(before the nerf) and probably never will. Did not need cage to emp myself in vivec entirely alone, without groups+buffs+mutagens+APbuff+ICflagswapping.

Cool story, I don't know what it matters though. Farming emperor (or "zerg stars" for that matter) is a matter of how much someone plays, not how well they play.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

My ward is like 11k, as ive said in case youre blind ive taken many times bow procs of 15k(magblade), now if you add soul harvest before that you successfully burst both shields in 1 sec.

But i know 15k bow proc+7-8k SH+LA+DoT+ swallow soul are all completely balanced things along with the shade 15% dmg reduction. Curse+frag+fury is broken. <----Your brain.

So your light armor (probably 7 divines or smth) sorc has taken big bow procs from NBs and that's now empirical evidence that NBs have the best burst in the game? This is exactly why you can't factor in personal experiences alone & try to deduce some deeper truth from that. By that logic my bowblade is now a god for doing this on a naked player with no CPs:

Obviously that's not what Lethal Arrow crits for normally, just as 15k isn't what Merciless will crit for on most occasions (atleast in noCP). You would know that, if you actually ever played a NB.

Luckily we can employ math to find the truth of things, rather than base everything on our (limited) personal experiences.

Wow @Nicko_Lps i think you hit a nerve lol. 10/10 sir, particular for generating this classic of a line to be quoted for ever more "forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story" absolute icing on the cake to see true, raw OP ego burst out.

What i do recall was Decimus saying repeatedly was the 10k tooltip being the issue with cage..... Repeatedly, like a 1000 times. Then Cage damage got a Nerf, and.......opa, the story changed. Damage was not the issue any more with cage.

Forum Peasants 1, Decimus -1 (own goal)

Nite all.

Darkenarlol · September 2018

i really enjoy how forumblades use their *professor mod ON* and manipulating numbers of burst info AFK'ing target with

immediately *yeah yeah look it is as our bruh said* nonsence coming from always on-guard support party (always same

loud and totally incompitent... oh just to prevent another reply earase...let's say good guys) =D

can you pwn noobs on sorc? yep it is still possible

do you have chances against competent/equal skill players rocking pvp-friendly class? barely

for now sorc has a LOT of class mechanics problems but is it even visible to low-mid skill level guys? nope

the ones who understand that problems are a total minority of player base and totally outcryed by very mediocre at best

but VERY LOUD cryblades...

anyway we can only vent some steam here while looking how our beloved class being destroyed step by step...

(again it is not visible if your best is r normal + 30 minutes zerg runs in a week)

Valrien · September 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

Did you really suggest buffing implosion?

Can you explain to me why you think Implosion is worth a damn?

FrancisCrawford · September 2018

I've mained magicka sorcerers since beta, and wrote one of the early sorcerer leveling guides. I'm basically PvE-only. My list experience is something like (both morphs unless I explicitly say otherwise):

I've stopped using Frags. I don't see any practical or fun reason to any more. The other morph still doesn't do it for me.
I've never used Encase.
I've never used any version of Rune Cage.
I've never used any versions of mines.
It's been long enough since I've used Dark Conversion/Deal that I've forgotten which morph is which. But actually it's OK.
I've never used Negate.
I used to use Overload a lot. But I've pretty much stopped due to clunkiness. We need the third bar because of pet clutter.
Endless Fury (my preferred morph) is fine. I'd use it more if there were more room on skill bars.
Liquid Lightning is great. The other morph is reasonable, but I go with LL. Well done!
Boundless Storm is fine. I'll probably stop playing the class when they nerf shields, but if for any reason I continue, I might use it again.
Streak/BoL feel clunky and insufficiently strong in PvE.
Power Surge, after all the nerfs and so on, has worked out well. I use it a lot.
The pets are all fine. Nerfing them would be a horrible idea. In particular, with Frags destroyed, Twilight Matriarch is the main remaining strength of the class. If it's nerfed I'll probably switch to magblade, even if that's nerfed too.
Daedric Prey is fine. If I try a non-pet build the other morph looks fine too.
Empowered Ward is fine. A nerf would be a horrible idea.
Since I play pets, there's no way there's room on my skill bars for Bound Aegis/Armaments too.
If Lightning Heavy Attack damage were unnerfed, a sustain buff might not be needed.
Summoning the pets like the Warden netch would be a huge help in terms of bar space. It would also be a big drain on magicka. Making them yield magicka when they hit something could fix that problem while leaving some differentiation from how the netch works.

DDuke · September 2018

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

@DDuke

You dont have your magsorc ready, but youre confident enough to say you will teach me how my class works. Well come with these sets and my confidence says you wont survive more than 2m.

Yeah, because I have tested it on PTS and I've had some actual good sorcs try out the setup and come to the conclusion that Cyro Light+Meditate>Lich backbar for instance

Theorycrafting is a pretty universal skillset, you don't have to "main" a class to theorycraft something. As you can see by watching seeing the mDK & magplar setups I've created and posted on youtube.

Some people can theorycraft, others don't. The latter category tends to just copy "meta builds" and then complain about the class when those builds are no longer the flavour of the month.

This is no different than the DK horde who told me a light armor destro/resto wouldn't work (I still do BGs with that character) or ppl back in 2016 who said heavy armor magplar was bad (lmao).

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

No, you where not talking about tooltip burst, i clearly remember both me and Derra mentioning you THAT cant happen vs players while you started saying i play glassy builds and all think they dont work im god i make them work bla bla. No you where claiming 9k damage cage on player.

Let's find a context for that Rune Cage conversation. Better yet, let's find the entire conversation:

People outright refusing to believe you can get a high tooltip on an ability. How does that not surprise me. Then again, here you are thinking magblades have better maximum burst than sorcs.

Some people just don't get numbers & how they work I guess.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Its pretty much 100% known among GOOD players that a GOOD magsorc vs a GOOD magblade has no chance. Now if you think it does, make your magsorc and ill bring you a good magblade to duel. I can bet 1m gold and every mat i have you probably will be erased before 1m of the duel.

Cool, meet you on PTS? I have no interest in buying gear for a character I'm not planning to take into BGs/open world anytime soon (not until Streak/BoL break roots & snares).

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

What you fail to realize is a sorc CANT be efficient and run impen. Specially vs magica classes that a magsorc can spam harness. Now if the burst destroy both shields in 1 sec or before they even be applied yes, it makes absolute sense that magblade burst is phenomenal no matter how much you refuse to accept it and the most amazing with magblades is their amazing heals mobility cloak+teleports while they can burst that hard. But im sure you have no idea how they work thats why you complain about magsorcs so much.

I honestly can't remember the last time a magblade even landed a skill on me (apart from a Soul Assault) when I'm on either of my stamblades.

And the fact you think I was referring to impen (though even that would be preferable to divines) tells me all I need to know about your game knowledge.

If you expect to be able to just spam shields and live with divines/infused gear, it's not going to work.

Not against magblade, not against anyone who builds for burst.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

I am playing in Vivec as i stated before, vivec is CP campain. I know a couple of GOOD magblades with phenomenal sustain that manage to pull out 15k bow procs. If i kill most of the scrubs in 15 sec, like that glorious zergling general Magblade that survived me for like 10 sec, it does not mean magblade needs a buff.

Who is saying magblade needs a buff? Lol.

It is you who is crying for sorc buffs here based on you getting trashed by a magblade. Go play magblade for a while... eagerly waiting for the "nerf stamina builds" posts as you get demolished by the weak match up of magblade

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Ive played a nb, i still have a nb bosmer but not a magblade. My magblade is in mount-leveling-mode.

Cool. Since you're not loudly shouting "stamblade op", I guess that didn't work out so well for you (surprise surprise).

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Your math is always wrong and your high self confidence is the main problem here because you actually believe what you say to a point that even if you dont believe it you force yourself to believe it just because you said so.

My math is always wrong because... you say so? You don't have any numbers to actually prove me wrong, just your own personal feelings about the subject.

Next up: earth is flat?

Ok, good talk.

Valrien · September 2018

I do enjoy the concept of "I don't play Sorc or have one even ready to play, but if I did I'd show you what-for"

Just as good as:
"I've seen Sorcs wipe zergs and do 60k+ DPS."
"Proof?"
"I don't have to prove anything to you"

Thank you everyone for continuing to stay on topic with the thread and ignoring the Nightblades. Your feedback is always appreciated

FrancisCrawford · September 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Increase the duration of expedition from boundless.
[/list]

Yeah, that would raise the skill from OK to really cool.

DDuke · September 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

@DDuke

Its funny how you come now in NON-CP mode talking about your statistics and with TOOLTIP damage while back then you where claiming that rune cage deals 9k damage TO PLAYERS in cp campain. YOUR sets used DO NOT WORK in reality, unless youre in a group with healers. I play alone that glassy builds can never work for solo play neither for duels. If you insist it works @Nicko_Lps add me and duel me. Until then find a better argument because we can always use 0 brain tactics and come up with 3 proc sets in magblade+stamblade to ensure they are the best dps classes.

I don't have my mSorc geared up right now, otherwise I'd be happy to teach you how to play your main class. Always happy to show how meditate works with zero sustain build on my NB or DK though - it's not much different.

Also, I said I can get Rune Cage to 9-10k damage tooltip when people were QQ'ing about only having 6,5k'ish tooltips in CP environment - and I did get it way over 9k.

Do I need to dig up those posts? The story goes like this: forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story.

Also, feel free to use any combination of proc sets (or full dmg sets) on a magblade or stamblade. I can guarantee a mSorc will deal more burst with those same sets equipped.

NB burst is naturally limited as it's a class without delayed damage, unlike literally every other class in game: DKs have FoO, Wardens have Shalks+birds with long travel time, Sorcs have Curse+Fury, Templars have Purifying Light/POTL...

No delayed damage=more limited 1GCD burst. Nothing wrong with that of course, it just is what it is.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

If you recall our posts where deleted, but if Derra is your friend ask him since he was a part of this conversation he would remember your great math and the unforgettable 9k cage damage to players in cp campain. Because i took you seriously back then, ive proved you how wrong you are simply because you forgot to calculate the defensive CP and you came up with 110k burst magsorc while you efficiently taken account of offensive CP like a math pro you are.

Yes, and I also came up with tooltip burst (very important distinction to make) numbers for other classes as well, did I not? After all, that's what I was comparing the sorc burst to.

If you want to know numbers after defensive modifiers it's also easy to calculate and doesn't really favour one class over the other because that's dependent on targets' mitigations, not your class.

This has proven to be too complicated to understand for many, so I've recently just compared non-CP numbers.

But please, come up with whatever build setup you can come up with for any class & I'll compare it to sorc burst. Then tell me CP allocation & target's mitigations and I'll factor those in just to prove my point.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

As ive said before in case you missed it, i never used cage(before the nerf) and probably never will. Did not need cage to emp myself in vivec entirely alone, without groups+buffs+mutagens+APbuff+ICflagswapping.

Cool story, I don't know what it matters though. Farming emperor (or "zerg stars" for that matter) is a matter of how much someone plays, not how well they play.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

My ward is like 11k, as ive said in case youre blind ive taken many times bow procs of 15k(magblade), now if you add soul harvest before that you successfully burst both shields in 1 sec.

But i know 15k bow proc+7-8k SH+LA+DoT+ swallow soul are all completely balanced things along with the shade 15% dmg reduction. Curse+frag+fury is broken. <----Your brain.

So your light armor (probably 7 divines or smth) sorc has taken big bow procs from NBs and that's now empirical evidence that NBs have the best burst in the game? This is exactly why you can't factor in personal experiences alone & try to deduce some deeper truth from that. By that logic my bowblade is now a god for doing this on a naked player with no CPs:

Obviously that's not what Lethal Arrow crits for normally, just as 15k isn't what Merciless will crit for on most occasions (atleast in noCP). You would know that, if you actually ever played a NB.

Luckily we can employ math to find the truth of things, rather than base everything on our (limited) personal experiences.

Wow @Nicko_Lps i think you hit a nerve lol. 10/10 sir, particular for generating this classic of a line to be quoted for ever more "forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story" absolute icing on the cake to see true, raw OP ego burst out.

What i do recall was Decimus saying repeatedly was the 10k tooltip being the issue with cage..... Repeatedly, like a 1000 times. Then Cage damage got a Nerf, and.......opa, the story changed. Damage was not the issue any more with cage.

Forum Peasants 1, Decimus -1 (own goal)

Nite all.

It's funny, because you're on that screenshot. Claiming so surely that 9-10k Rune Cage tooltip didn't exist.

...and no, thinking that the tooltip damage was the problem was a bit shortsighted.

It was accurate at the time (Summerset) based on calculations, but as gear choices expended (i.e. Balorgh) it became unrealistic to expect even damageless Rune Cage to always remain balanced as long as builds exist that depend on avoiding damage.

Opinions change, they're not set in stone.

Priyasekarssk · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

@DDuke

You dont have your magsorc ready, but youre confident enough to say you will teach me how my class works. Well come with these sets and my confidence says you wont survive more than 2m.

Yeah, because I have tested it on PTS and I've had some actual good sorcs try out the setup and come to the conclusion that Cyro Light+Meditate>Lich backbar for instance

Theorycrafting is a pretty universal skillset, you don't have to "main" a class to theorycraft something. As you can see by watching seeing the mDK & magplar setups I've created and posted on youtube.

Some people can theorycraft, others don't. The latter category tends to just copy "meta builds" and then complain about the class when those builds are no longer the flavour of the month.

This is no different than the DK horde who told me a light armor destro/resto wouldn't work (I still do BGs with that character) or ppl back in 2016 who said heavy armor magplar was bad (lmao).

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

No, you where not talking about tooltip burst, i clearly remember both me and Derra mentioning you THAT cant happen vs players while you started saying i play glassy builds and all think they dont work im god i make them work bla bla. No you where claiming 9k damage cage on player.

Let's find a context for that Rune Cage conversation. Better yet, let's find the entire conversation:

People outright refusing to believe you can get a high tooltip on an ability. How does that not surprise me. Then again, here you are thinking magblades have better maximum burst than sorcs.

Some people just don't get numbers & how they work I guess.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Its pretty much 100% known among GOOD players that a GOOD magsorc vs a GOOD magblade has no chance. Now if you think it does, make your magsorc and ill bring you a good magblade to duel. I can bet 1m gold and every mat i have you probably will be erased before 1m of the duel.

Cool, meet you on PTS? I have no interest in buying gear for a character I'm not planning to take into BGs/open world anytime soon (not until Streak/BoL break roots & snares).

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

What you fail to realize is a sorc CANT be efficient and run impen. Specially vs magica classes that a magsorc can spam harness. Now if the burst destroy both shields in 1 sec or before they even be applied yes, it makes absolute sense that magblade burst is phenomenal no matter how much you refuse to accept it and the most amazing with magblades is their amazing heals mobility cloak+teleports while they can burst that hard. But im sure you have no idea how they work thats why you complain about magsorcs so much.

I honestly can't remember the last time a magblade even landed a skill on me (apart from a Soul Assault) when I'm on either of my stamblades.

And the fact you think I was referring to impen (though even that would be preferable to divines) tells me all I need to know about your game knowledge.

If you expect to be able to just spam shields and live with divines/infused gear, it's not going to work.

Not against magblade, not against anyone who builds for burst.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

I am playing in Vivec as i stated before, vivec is CP campain. I know a couple of GOOD magblades with phenomenal sustain that manage to pull out 15k bow procs. If i kill most of the scrubs in 15 sec, like that glorious zergling general Magblade that survived me for like 10 sec, it does not mean magblade needs a buff.

Who is saying magblade needs a buff? Lol.

It is you who is crying for sorc buffs here based on you getting trashed by a magblade. Go play magblade for a while... eagerly waiting for the "nerf stamina builds" posts as you get demolished by the weak match up of magblade

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Ive played a nb, i still have a nb bosmer but not a magblade. My magblade is in mount-leveling-mode.

Cool. Since you're not loudly shouting "stamblade op", I guess that didn't work out so well for you (surprise surprise).

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

Your math is always wrong and your high self confidence is the main problem here because you actually believe what you say to a point that even if you dont believe it you force yourself to believe it just because you said so.

My math is always wrong because... you say so? You don't have any numbers to actually prove me wrong, just your own personal feelings about the subject.

Next up: earth is flat?

Ok, good talk.

What next 30k tool tip on crystal frag far more than assassination will ? Please teach us how to make those builds possible ?

Valrien · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

@DDuke

Its funny how you come now in NON-CP mode talking about your statistics and with TOOLTIP damage while back then you where claiming that rune cage deals 9k damage TO PLAYERS in cp campain. YOUR sets used DO NOT WORK in reality, unless youre in a group with healers. I play alone that glassy builds can never work for solo play neither for duels. If you insist it works @Nicko_Lps add me and duel me. Until then find a better argument because we can always use 0 brain tactics and come up with 3 proc sets in magblade+stamblade to ensure they are the best dps classes.

I don't have my mSorc geared up right now, otherwise I'd be happy to teach you how to play your main class. Always happy to show how meditate works with zero sustain build on my NB or DK though - it's not much different.

Also, I said I can get Rune Cage to 9-10k damage tooltip when people were QQ'ing about only having 6,5k'ish tooltips in CP environment - and I did get it way over 9k.

Do I need to dig up those posts? The story goes like this: forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story.

Also, feel free to use any combination of proc sets (or full dmg sets) on a magblade or stamblade. I can guarantee a mSorc will deal more burst with those same sets equipped.

NB burst is naturally limited as it's a class without delayed damage, unlike literally every other class in game: DKs have FoO, Wardens have Shalks+birds with long travel time, Sorcs have Curse+Fury, Templars have Purifying Light/POTL...

No delayed damage=more limited 1GCD burst. Nothing wrong with that of course, it just is what it is.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

If you recall our posts where deleted, but if Derra is your friend ask him since he was a part of this conversation he would remember your great math and the unforgettable 9k cage damage to players in cp campain. Because i took you seriously back then, ive proved you how wrong you are simply because you forgot to calculate the defensive CP and you came up with 110k burst magsorc while you efficiently taken account of offensive CP like a math pro you are.

Yes, and I also came up with tooltip burst (very important distinction to make) numbers for other classes as well, did I not? After all, that's what I was comparing the sorc burst to.

If you want to know numbers after defensive modifiers it's also easy to calculate and doesn't really favour one class over the other because that's dependent on targets' mitigations, not your class.

This has proven to be too complicated to understand for many, so I've recently just compared non-CP numbers.

But please, come up with whatever build setup you can come up with for any class & I'll compare it to sorc burst. Then tell me CP allocation & target's mitigations and I'll factor those in just to prove my point.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

As ive said before in case you missed it, i never used cage(before the nerf) and probably never will. Did not need cage to emp myself in vivec entirely alone, without groups+buffs+mutagens+APbuff+ICflagswapping.

Cool story, I don't know what it matters though. Farming emperor (or "zerg stars" for that matter) is a matter of how much someone plays, not how well they play.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

My ward is like 11k, as ive said in case youre blind ive taken many times bow procs of 15k(magblade), now if you add soul harvest before that you successfully burst both shields in 1 sec.

But i know 15k bow proc+7-8k SH+LA+DoT+ swallow soul are all completely balanced things along with the shade 15% dmg reduction. Curse+frag+fury is broken. <----Your brain.

So your light armor (probably 7 divines or smth) sorc has taken big bow procs from NBs and that's now empirical evidence that NBs have the best burst in the game? This is exactly why you can't factor in personal experiences alone & try to deduce some deeper truth from that. By that logic my bowblade is now a god for doing this on a naked player with no CPs:

Obviously that's not what Lethal Arrow crits for normally, just as 15k isn't what Merciless will crit for on most occasions (atleast in noCP). You would know that, if you actually ever played a NB.

Luckily we can employ math to find the truth of things, rather than base everything on our (limited) personal experiences.

Wow @Nicko_Lps i think you hit a nerve lol. 10/10 sir, particular for generating this classic of a line to be quoted for ever more "forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story" absolute icing on the cake to see true, raw OP ego burst out.

What i do recall was Decimus saying repeatedly was the 10k tooltip being the issue with cage..... Repeatedly, like a 1000 times. Then Cage damage got a Nerf, and.......opa, the story changed. Damage was not the issue any more with cage.

Forum Peasants 1, Decimus -1 (own goal)

Nite all.

It's funny, because you're on that screenshot. Claiming so surely that 9-10k Rune Cage tooltip didn't exist.

...and no, thinking that the tooltip damage was the problem was a bit shortsighted.

It was accurate at the time (Summerset) based on calculations, but as gear choices expended (i.e. Balorgh) it became unrealistic to expect even damageless Rune Cage to always remain balanced as long as builds exist that depend on avoiding damage.

Opinions change, they're not set in stone.

Why do people still think skill tooltips matter? Or even that Rune Cage was OP?

If you're built to where youre not allowed to take any damage at all then that's a problem and it doesn't make damage tools OP in the slightest

Thing about tooltips is to get high ones you gotta put on gear you'll probably never use in PvP, then take a screenshot and claim "there, OP"

If I took a screenshot of Frags with my full PvE gear and Srioria buffs up would that also be called OP?

And tbh your math always looks super sketchy. You're the type of guy that will basically just throw in random signs and numbers, claim it's math, and hope everyone is too lazy or stupid to check it.

Back on topic, if turning Bound Aegis into a passive is too much what would you guys do with it? How about combining Ward and Aegis into one skill. It adds 8% Max magicka or 5% max stamina + 11% LA Damage and activating it gives you a damage shield?

DDuke · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

I do enjoy the concept of "I don't play Sorc or have one even ready to play, but if I did I'd show you what-for"

Just as good as:
"I've seen Sorcs wipe zergs and do 60k+ DPS."
"Proof?"
"I don't have to prove anything to you"

Thank you everyone for continuing to stay on topic with the thread and ignoring the Nightblades. Your feedback is always appreciated

Oh, I would never make claims without providing proof, like some people here like to do.

That's what math is for, but I understand numbers can be difficult for some people.

I did also make a video of sorc burst (without Meteor) on a 7 impen stamblade with Impregnable on:

https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

RebornV3x · September 2018

It depends going forward since its been hinted that wards getting nerfed so with that in mid the Sorc class needs to be a glass cannon that focuses on mobility to survive

So buff Crystal Fragments give us the 10% dmg and stun back

Assuming wards get nerfed we buff Deadric mines and morphs by 10 to 20% since we'll need something to defend ourselves at close range or well be NB fodder

Remove the penalty from Streak and fix the ability since its wonky on uneven ground also increase the range of said Streak since any brain dead idiot can gap close you making the skill nearly useless and it should have the ability to break stuns

Maybe increase the damage on Force Shock and morphs by 5% since Sorcs have no class spammable and are currently pigeonholed and forced to use destructive staves

Boundless Storm and morphs need Major Expedition up time buff to 12+ seconds to keep in line with mobility play style

Buff Lighting Splash and morphs by 5-10% to help close the gap between nightblade pve dps

The Volatile Familiar put should have a knock down since the NPC Familiars can knock you back and it needs to hit as hard as current Dizzing Swing

The point is to make the Sorc a true glass cannon buffing fhe most used skills while relying less on shields and buffing sorcs already good mobility skills while making D mines a good alternative for defense.

If by some gift of god sorc wards don't get nerfed next patch then disregard this post

Valrien · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

I do enjoy the concept of "I don't play Sorc or have one even ready to play, but if I did I'd show you what-for"

Just as good as:
"I've seen Sorcs wipe zergs and do 60k+ DPS."
"Proof?"
"I don't have to prove anything to you"

Thank you everyone for continuing to stay on topic with the thread and ignoring the Nightblades. Your feedback is always appreciated

Oh, I would never make claims without providing proof, like some people here like to do.

That's what math is for, but I understand numbers can be difficult for some people.

I did also make a video of sorc burst (without Meteor) on a 7 impen stamblade with Impregnable on:
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Flawed test. Didn't show your gear, Nightblade didn't take any defensive measures outside of HoTs.

For all anyone knows you ran a PvE build just to beef up numbers.

If you want to make claims then back them up properly

DDuke · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

@DDuke

Its funny how you come now in NON-CP mode talking about your statistics and with TOOLTIP damage while back then you where claiming that rune cage deals 9k damage TO PLAYERS in cp campain. YOUR sets used DO NOT WORK in reality, unless youre in a group with healers. I play alone that glassy builds can never work for solo play neither for duels. If you insist it works @Nicko_Lps add me and duel me. Until then find a better argument because we can always use 0 brain tactics and come up with 3 proc sets in magblade+stamblade to ensure they are the best dps classes.

I don't have my mSorc geared up right now, otherwise I'd be happy to teach you how to play your main class. Always happy to show how meditate works with zero sustain build on my NB or DK though - it's not much different.

Also, I said I can get Rune Cage to 9-10k damage tooltip when people were QQ'ing about only having 6,5k'ish tooltips in CP environment - and I did get it way over 9k.

Do I need to dig up those posts? The story goes like this: forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story.

Also, feel free to use any combination of proc sets (or full dmg sets) on a magblade or stamblade. I can guarantee a mSorc will deal more burst with those same sets equipped.

NB burst is naturally limited as it's a class without delayed damage, unlike literally every other class in game: DKs have FoO, Wardens have Shalks+birds with long travel time, Sorcs have Curse+Fury, Templars have Purifying Light/POTL...

No delayed damage=more limited 1GCD burst. Nothing wrong with that of course, it just is what it is.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

If you recall our posts where deleted, but if Derra is your friend ask him since he was a part of this conversation he would remember your great math and the unforgettable 9k cage damage to players in cp campain. Because i took you seriously back then, ive proved you how wrong you are simply because you forgot to calculate the defensive CP and you came up with 110k burst magsorc while you efficiently taken account of offensive CP like a math pro you are.

Yes, and I also came up with tooltip burst (very important distinction to make) numbers for other classes as well, did I not? After all, that's what I was comparing the sorc burst to.

If you want to know numbers after defensive modifiers it's also easy to calculate and doesn't really favour one class over the other because that's dependent on targets' mitigations, not your class.

This has proven to be too complicated to understand for many, so I've recently just compared non-CP numbers.

But please, come up with whatever build setup you can come up with for any class & I'll compare it to sorc burst. Then tell me CP allocation & target's mitigations and I'll factor those in just to prove my point.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

As ive said before in case you missed it, i never used cage(before the nerf) and probably never will. Did not need cage to emp myself in vivec entirely alone, without groups+buffs+mutagens+APbuff+ICflagswapping.

Cool story, I don't know what it matters though. Farming emperor (or "zerg stars" for that matter) is a matter of how much someone plays, not how well they play.

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

My ward is like 11k, as ive said in case youre blind ive taken many times bow procs of 15k(magblade), now if you add soul harvest before that you successfully burst both shields in 1 sec.

But i know 15k bow proc+7-8k SH+LA+DoT+ swallow soul are all completely balanced things along with the shade 15% dmg reduction. Curse+frag+fury is broken. <----Your brain.

So your light armor (probably 7 divines or smth) sorc has taken big bow procs from NBs and that's now empirical evidence that NBs have the best burst in the game? This is exactly why you can't factor in personal experiences alone & try to deduce some deeper truth from that. By that logic my bowblade is now a god for doing this on a naked player with no CPs:

Obviously that's not what Lethal Arrow crits for normally, just as 15k isn't what Merciless will crit for on most occasions (atleast in noCP). You would know that, if you actually ever played a NB.

Luckily we can employ math to find the truth of things, rather than base everything on our (limited) personal experiences.

Wow @Nicko_Lps i think you hit a nerve lol. 10/10 sir, particular for generating this classic of a line to be quoted for ever more "forum peasants were wrong, Decimus was right. End of story" absolute icing on the cake to see true, raw OP ego burst out.

What i do recall was Decimus saying repeatedly was the 10k tooltip being the issue with cage..... Repeatedly, like a 1000 times. Then Cage damage got a Nerf, and.......opa, the story changed. Damage was not the issue any more with cage.

Forum Peasants 1, Decimus -1 (own goal)

Nite all.

It's funny, because you're on that screenshot. Claiming so surely that 9-10k Rune Cage tooltip didn't exist.

...and no, thinking that the tooltip damage was the problem was a bit shortsighted.

It was accurate at the time (Summerset) based on calculations, but as gear choices expended (i.e. Balorgh) it became unrealistic to expect even damageless Rune Cage to always remain balanced as long as builds exist that depend on avoiding damage.

Opinions change, they're not set in stone.

Why do people still think skill tooltips matter? Or even that Rune Cage was OP?

If you're built to where youre not allowed to take any damage at all then that's a problem and it doesn't make damage tools OP in the slightest

Ah, so you don't even think Rune Cage was OP? And you're practically saying everyone should play tank builds in PvP, or roll a sorc and hide behind shield stacks?

Because that's where you end up when you have highest burst in the game combined with an uncounterable CC.

I'm glad that got changed, bad players have to learn to play again and aren't getting carried anymore.

Valrien wrote: »

Thing about tooltips is to get high ones you gotta put on gear you'll probably never use in PvP, then take a screenshot and claim "there, OP"

What if I told you I use high damage gear (in PvP) on almost all my characters?

My magicka DK uses BSW+Overwhelming+Skoria at the moment, my melee stamblade Sunderflame+Sheer Venom+Balorgh & my bowblade Marksman+Hawk's Eye.

These are all zero damage, full burst setups. Just because you think something doesn't work in PvP doesn't make it so, as I can prove by posting any BG result from the past few months (I screenshot them all).

Valrien wrote: »

If I took a screenshot of Frags with my full PvE gear and Srioria buffs up would that also be called OP?

Can I avoid those Frags by playing well and what is the up time of that Siroria damage? That should answer your question.

I don't think high damage setups are overpowered. They're strong (which is why I play them), but as long as burst has counterplay it's balanced.

Valrien wrote: »

And tbh your math always looks super sketchy. You're the type of guy that will basically just throw in random signs and numbers, claim it's math, and hope everyone is too lazy or stupid to check it.

Feel free to check it. Or alternatively tell me what setups to compare. If you think I'm lying, compare them yourself.

If you're calling me a liar, then the burden of proof is on you I'm afraid.

Valrien wrote: »

Back on topic, if turning Bound Aegis into a passive is too much what would you guys do with it? How about combining Ward and Aegis into one skill. It adds 8% Max magicka or 5% max stamina + 11% LA Damage and activating it gives you a damage shield?

Just no... I have a better solution for you: git gud.

Kadoin · September 2018

Came here to see someone demand outrageous buffs, was not disappointed.

Joy_Division · September 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

It would not be a proper sorcerer thread without Duke trying to compare 3 sorc skills and a 200 cost ultimate with 1 NB skill and a 75 cost ultimate and claim the sorc's higher number is indicative of sorcerers being stronger

DDuke · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

I do enjoy the concept of "I don't play Sorc or have one even ready to play, but if I did I'd show you what-for"

Just as good as:
"I've seen Sorcs wipe zergs and do 60k+ DPS."
"Proof?"
"I don't have to prove anything to you"

Thank you everyone for continuing to stay on topic with the thread and ignoring the Nightblades. Your feedback is always appreciated

Oh, I would never make claims without providing proof, like some people here like to do.

That's what math is for, but I understand numbers can be difficult for some people.

I did also make a video of sorc burst (without Meteor) on a 7 impen stamblade with Impregnable on:
https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

Flawed test. Didn't show your gear, Nightblade didn't take any defensive measures outside of HoTs.

For all anyone knows you ran a PvE build just to beef up numbers.

If you want to make claims then back them up properly

What "defensive measures" outside heal over times do you think a stamblade has?

Bone Shield?

Do you even play this game?

I have the sorc gear listed above btw, in a previous post (Destruction Mastery+Necropotence+Slimecraw) - outdated setup though (I'd use Balorgh+Master's Staff+Destruction Mastery+Light of Cyrodiil off bar now).

DDuke · September 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

By the way when people say stuff like "Sorcs have the highest burst in the game...", you guys know that's a big, fat LIE, don't you?

Meanwhile, there are Nightblades running around who can hit you with an Assassin's Will that does 20K damage. That's 20,000 HP off your health bar just from one proc! It's not even an ultimate!!!

Of course, some wise guy is going to say "Well, NBs can only do that kind of damage because of all the debuffs they put on you..." SO WHAT!?! When are Sorcs going to get some crippling debuffs attached to Curse or Cage or whatever?

I'll just copy paste this here:

Using same setup on both characters.

Gear: 5/1/1 2x Engine Guardian 5x Necropotence 5x Destruction Mastery

Sorc buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, Ancient Knowledge passive, Empower for Light Attack (from Meteor), Altmer passive +4% to Shooting Star & Light Attack & Shock Glyph, +5% (Energized passive) to Shock Glyph, +10% to Frag proc

NB buffs: Major Sorcery, Wpn Dmg Enchant, +20% to Merciless & Light Attack (Incap buff), Minor Berserk, Altmer passive +4% to Light Attack

So let's compare.
Shooting Star 14 323+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=16 041
Light Attack 3565+(40%[Empower]+4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=5418
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+5%[Energized])=2964
Rune Cage 0
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge])=3992
Frag 12 260+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+10%[Frag Proc])=14 466
Curse 10574+8%(Ancient Knowledge)=11 419
54 300 tooltip burst

and NB:
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=4278
Incap 12 890+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=14 952
Light Attack 3565+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=4991
Shock Glyph 2534+(4%[Altmer Passive]+8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk])=3040
Merciless 16 370+(8%[Ancient Knowledge]+8%[Minor Berserk]+20%[Incap])=22 263
49 524 tooltip burst

Now let's assume everything crits (NB has 60% crit modifier, Sorc 50%):
54 300+50%=81 450
49 524+60%=79 238

Everything accounted for, sorcs do have the highest burst in game (i.e. damage that lands within 1 GCD).

Note that this is not even including Fury, or Flame Reach as the CC (which you'd probably prefer over Rune Cage now).

It would not be a proper sorcerer thread without Duke trying to compare 3 sorc skills and a 200 cost ultimate with 1 NB skill and a 75 cost ultimate and claim the sorc's higher number is indicative of sorcerers being stronger

Nobody is saying sorcs are stronger/weaker, but their maximum burst is the highest in the game and that's not disputable (or someone would already have proven me wrong with numbers, not insults & rhetoric).

All I'm saying is that burst damage wise sorc is in a good spot right now and claiming anything else is disingenuous.

Only thing they need is fixes/buffs for Streak/BoL - snare/root removal preferably so mDKs wouldn't be the magicka class with most mobility.