A way to make the PVE portion of Cyrodiil more bearable without impacting PVP too much
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Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
What's weird about this line of thinking is that I see endless threads about how questing is too easy, it's boring, there's no danger, it should be much more difficult.....
You get all that in Cyrodiil. But somehow, here that isn't wanted. Odd.
Ah, except it's players, so unpredictable, right?
I guess you only want challenge and danger in a predictable fashion...
PvE has 90% of the game. The rest of the 10% isn't even denied to you, you just don't like it, so refuse to do it unless it's your way.
Oh well, guess you'll just have to go without.Edited by Kel on September 8, 2018 10:58PM0 -
Abysswarrior45✭✭✭✭No, it's a pvp zone. Get better at pvp and the pve portion of Cyrodiil won't be so terrible. Its that simple. Your idea would cause mass queuing during those days when nothing can be captured and wouldn't make any sense in a war zone between 3 factions who genuinely hate one another. If modifications like that were to be made to Cyrodiil then there would have to be some sort of pvp added to the rest of Tamriel outside of consensual duels because thats only fair.
EDIT: Throw on some impen and make a few detect pots and you'll find gankers are some of the worst pvp players Cyrodiil has to offer. It truly is a L2P issue and the "risk" of going out and dying forcing you to run back is part of the fun.Edited by Abysswarrior45 on September 8, 2018 11:06PM2 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Azurephoenix999 wrote: »NateAssassin wrote: »Better yet, just create a campaign that has only PvE, so friends can play together across factions.
Oh wait that gives PvPers less carebears to trump, it won't ever happen because we can't upset the PvP masterrace.
Honestly, I'd prefer that. When I suggested it I got a ton of negative responses from hardcore PVPers saying "If you want this, you'll have to give us PVP all over tamriel", "Cyrodiil would be boring as *** without PVP", and "this *** is just acting entitled".
Typical PVPer response really."You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"3 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »PvP is part of the game. I just don’t understand why some people don’t want to bother getting good at an entire portion of the game. ZOS wants you to. They encourage you to. You bought the game. Play it.
I mean PvE players get good enough to do dungeons. They kill bosses. They can learn to kill players.
PvE is also part of the game. Cyrodiil is also a PvE zone. Let PvE players do PvE if they want to do that. If they want to do PvP, they can, don't force it on them.
Why is it bothering you so much that PvE players do what they want to do? They're not in your way, if anything, they go out of your way.
You can PvE in Cyrodiil now. I've done all the quests, finished the delves, have the books and skyshards and got the fishing accomplishment on more than one character. Sure the PvE gets interrupted from time to time but it isn't anywhere near a constant interruption.
Putting some PvE content in a PvP zone is good for the game. PvP survives by new players coming in. Much of the time those new players are introduced to PvP because they came in for PvE related activity.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »PvP is part of the game. I just don’t understand why some people don’t want to bother getting good at an entire portion of the game. ZOS wants you to. They encourage you to. You bought the game. Play it.
I mean PvE players get good enough to do dungeons. They kill bosses. They can learn to kill players.
Mostly the toxic communities PVP draws, not the actual mechanics at all.. I did pvp for years and honestly dealing with aholes 24/7 just got tiresome and well i grew up.Edited by DanteYoda on September 9, 2018 1:13AM4 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
I PvE in Vivec Lol. I do quests there. I even FARM there. I ALSO kill players and took the time to learn to do so. I entered Vivec at level 10.
There are plenty of places to ONLY PvE if you want to. ZOS wants you to play their WHOLE game so there are inventives for people to do both PvE and PvP.
You should really just l2p or l2pvp because once you do, PvEing in Cyrodiil won’t really be an issue.
Everyone dies. Everyone gets ganked. Everyone gets Zerged down. But once you l2p you’ll KILL those pesky nighblades. You’ll wreck Zergs. You won’t think to much of it.
ESO is a good game. Don’t shy away from a challenge. Step up and kill some people WHILE doing some quests.2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »PvP is part of the game. I just don’t understand why some people don’t want to bother getting good at an entire portion of the game. ZOS wants you to. They encourage you to. You bought the game. Play it.
I mean PvE players get good enough to do dungeons. They kill bosses. They can learn to kill players.
Mostly the toxic communities PVP draws, not the actual mechanics at all.. I did pvp for years and honestly dealing with aholes 24/7 just got tiresome and well i grew up.
Total myth, especially in ESO. The PvP community is no more toxic than the PvE community.3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »PvP is part of the game. I just don’t understand why some people don’t want to bother getting good at an entire portion of the game. ZOS wants you to. They encourage you to. You bought the game. Play it.
I mean PvE players get good enough to do dungeons. They kill bosses. They can learn to kill players.
Mostly the toxic communities PVP draws, not the actual mechanics at all.. I did pvp for years and honestly dealing with aholes 24/7 just got tiresome and well i grew up.
Total myth, especially in ESO. The PvP community is no more toxic than the PvE community.
Honestly, I’ve met more aholes in PVE than in PVP. There are some bad apples in Cyrodiil, but at least no one is going to hum and haw over whether or not they’re going to let you into a vHRC pug because you “only” do 40k DPS.5 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nope I have over 100+ runs logged in to crypt of hearts to get my lich 5 set for pvp. We are not going to give pve toons handouts in pvp. Just suck it up.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.4 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
No justified reason, hmmm? (I can't believe this necro'd thread is going strong)
Like it or not, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together. That means the whole player base benefits when players understand how both PVE and PVP work. The only way to make that happen is to force PVP players into PVE and PVE players into PVP.
And that's why ZOS designed PVP and PVE content so that everyone has to deal everything if they want all the rewards and the best gear. Removing the incentives for PVEers to go into PVP and at the very least get their toes wet for anniversary boxes, AP, tel var, caltrops, vigor, warhorn, etc. (Or allowing PVP players to skip undaunted, get dungeon gear, etc) means that players struggle when ZOS makes balance changes due to either PVP, PVE, or both. Instead, ZOS works hard to give players reasons to try out different playstyles and parts of the game.
We see the proof of this in the class representatice program, where the
representatives were chosen for expertise in both PVP and PVE.
So if you want a justified reason, maybe consider what benefit ZOS gets from the status quo and indeed from designing this game this way in the first place.
Mind you, this dastardly scheme of ZOS to get PVE players into PVP works in some cases. I used to be a PVE only player. I hated the idea of PVP, but I wanted those Master Angler fish. That's what got me started and now I PVP regularly.
Balances, eh? Tell me, what exactly is balanced about fishing and suddenly getting ganked? PvE players play PvE for a reason, as a prime example, Runescape did an excellent job of seperating this. It has (or had) seperate PvP servers, and it had the wilderness, a PvP zone. Mixing PvE and PvP always ends up with PvP players getting the better side of the bargain.
Oh, you almost killed this world boss? Well, too bad, because xXIganknoobsXx saw you lose quite a lot of health and decided to kill you just as you were about to kill the boss.
IC got completely ruined by the PvP/PvE mixed zone, it's a dead area because neither side can get any positives. The ones who want to beat the bosses get screwed over by PvP players, while there are too many PvE enemies for PvP players to really get into their element. Leaving both sides screwed.
The way they ''incite'' PvP playing is utterly disgusting. It's based on people with a lack of skill making PvE players so annoyed that they stop doing what they want and like to do, because they can't do those things with other players running around.
Give one good reason why PvE players should suffer at the expense of PvP players. PvE players aren't in the way of PvP players, the opposite is true.4 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭I bet these same players who want a PvE Cyrodiil are the same players that are against Normal Malestrom dropping imperfect weapons.
The argument was something like, "To get the reward, you have to do the content."
Now, I'm not saying the Malestrom idea is any good. I've beaten Malestrom more than I ever needed to.
What I'm saying is that any PvE player complaining about PvP in a PvP zone should take thier own advice. If you want the reward, you have to do the content.
Cyrodiil's also a PvE zone.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
No justified reason, hmmm? (I can't believe this necro'd thread is going strong)
Like it or not, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together. That means the whole player base benefits when players understand how both PVE and PVP work. The only way to make that happen is to force PVP players into PVE and PVE players into PVP.
And that's why ZOS designed PVP and PVE content so that everyone has to deal everything if they want all the rewards and the best gear. Removing the incentives for PVEers to go into PVP and at the very least get their toes wet for anniversary boxes, AP, tel var, caltrops, vigor, warhorn, etc. (Or allowing PVP players to skip undaunted, get dungeon gear, etc) means that players struggle when ZOS makes balance changes due to either PVP, PVE, or both. Instead, ZOS works hard to give players reasons to try out different playstyles and parts of the game.
We see the proof of this in the class representatice program, where the
representatives were chosen for expertise in both PVP and PVE.
So if you want a justified reason, maybe consider what benefit ZOS gets from the status quo and indeed from designing this game this way in the first place.
Mind you, this dastardly scheme of ZOS to get PVE players into PVP works in some cases. I used to be a PVE only player. I hated the idea of PVP, but I wanted those Master Angler fish. That's what got me started and now I PVP regularly.
Balances, eh? Tell me, what exactly is balanced about fishing and suddenly getting ganked? PvE players play PvE for a reason, as a prime example, Runescape did an excellent job of seperating this. It has (or had) seperate PvP servers, and it had the wilderness, a PvP zone. Mixing PvE and PvP always ends up with PvP players getting the better side of the bargain.
Oh, you almost killed this world boss? Well, too bad, because xXIganknoobsXx saw you lose quite a lot of health and decided to kill you just as you were about to kill the boss.
IC got completely ruined by the PvP/PvE mixed zone, it's a dead area because neither side can get any positives. The ones who want to beat the bosses get screwed over by PvP players, while there are too many PvE enemies for PvP players to really get into their element. Leaving both sides screwed.
The way they ''incite'' PvP playing is utterly disgusting. It's based on people with a lack of skill making PvE players so annoyed that they stop doing what they want and like to do, because they can't do those things with other players running around.
Give one good reason why PvE players should suffer at the expense of PvP players. PvE players aren't in the way of PvP players, the opposite is true.
Balanced? You are using that in a different sense than ZOS uses it. ZOS wants to have PVP and PVE work on similar principles as opposed to completely separating PVE and PVP. So until ZOS changes their mind (which they keep doubling down on it, so good luck), they will continue to encourage PVE players to go into PVP zones to give it a try. I already explained the benefits ZOS gets from doing that, including how they've emphasized that in the class representative program.
ZOS is well aware that many PVE only players hate having to PVP for skyshards, achievements, skills, and other rewards for doing the whole of the base game. They haven't changed the current system, and indeed keep adding rewards to PVP modes like Battlegrounds. (Insert the same speech about PVP players hating to PVE for stuff, and ZOS continuing to add PVE rewards.)
That's because this design benefits ZOS. It lets them continue to balance skills/classes for PVE and PVP together instead of separately. It lets them encourage people to play multiple game modes, not just the ones you happen to love. Whether that's PVP or PVE.
You don't like having to PVP, along with many other PVE players. We get that. ZOS hasnt managed to somehow miss that.
Unfortunately for you, the benefits ZOS derives from balancing PVE and PVP together rather than desperately, and also from encouraging players to play ALL of the game rather than conpletely segregating themselves into seperate communities outweighs the suffering of PVE only players "forced" to PVP or PVP players "forced" to PVE.1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
No justified reason, hmmm? (I can't believe this necro'd thread is going strong)
Like it or not, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together. That means the whole player base benefits when players understand how both PVE and PVP work. The only way to make that happen is to force PVP players into PVE and PVE players into PVP.
And that's why ZOS designed PVP and PVE content so that everyone has to deal everything if they want all the rewards and the best gear. Removing the incentives for PVEers to go into PVP and at the very least get their toes wet for anniversary boxes, AP, tel var, caltrops, vigor, warhorn, etc. (Or allowing PVP players to skip undaunted, get dungeon gear, etc) means that players struggle when ZOS makes balance changes due to either PVP, PVE, or both. Instead, ZOS works hard to give players reasons to try out different playstyles and parts of the game.
We see the proof of this in the class representatice program, where the
representatives were chosen for expertise in both PVP and PVE.
So if you want a justified reason, maybe consider what benefit ZOS gets from the status quo and indeed from designing this game this way in the first place.
Mind you, this dastardly scheme of ZOS to get PVE players into PVP works in some cases. I used to be a PVE only player. I hated the idea of PVP, but I wanted those Master Angler fish. That's what got me started and now I PVP regularly.
Balances, eh? Tell me, what exactly is balanced about fishing and suddenly getting ganked? PvE players play PvE for a reason, as a prime example, Runescape did an excellent job of seperating this. It has (or had) seperate PvP servers, and it had the wilderness, a PvP zone. Mixing PvE and PvP always ends up with PvP players getting the better side of the bargain.
Oh, you almost killed this world boss? Well, too bad, because xXIganknoobsXx saw you lose quite a lot of health and decided to kill you just as you were about to kill the boss.
IC got completely ruined by the PvP/PvE mixed zone, it's a dead area because neither side can get any positives. The ones who want to beat the bosses get screwed over by PvP players, while there are too many PvE enemies for PvP players to really get into their element. Leaving both sides screwed.
The way they ''incite'' PvP playing is utterly disgusting. It's based on people with a lack of skill making PvE players so annoyed that they stop doing what they want and like to do, because they can't do those things with other players running around.
Give one good reason why PvE players should suffer at the expense of PvP players. PvE players aren't in the way of PvP players, the opposite is true.
Balanced? You are using that in a different sense than ZOS uses it. ZOS wants to have PVP and PVE work on similar principles as opposed to completely separating PVE and PVP. So until ZOS changes their mind (which they keep doubling down on it, so good luck), they will continue to encourage PVE players to go into PVP zones to give it a try. I already explained the benefits ZOS gets from doing that, including how they've emphasized that in the class representative program.
ZOS is well aware that many PVE only players hate having to PVP for skyshards, achievements, skills, and other rewards for doing the whole of the base game. They haven't changed the current system, and indeed keep adding rewards to PVP modes like Battlegrounds. (Insert the same speech about PVP players hating to PVE for stuff, and ZOS continuing to add PVE rewards.)
That's because this design benefits ZOS. It lets them continue to balance skills/classes for PVE and PVP together instead of separately. It lets them encourage people to play multiple game modes, not just the ones you happen to love. Whether that's PVP or PVE.
You don't like having to PVP, along with many other PVE players. We get that. ZOS hasnt managed to somehow miss that.
Unfortunately for you, the benefits ZOS derives from balancing PVE and PVP together rather than desperately, and also from encouraging players to play ALL of the game rather than conpletely segregating themselves into seperate communities outweighs the suffering of PVE only players "forced" to PVP or PVP players "forced" to PVE.
And it’s really, TRULY a good way for ZOS to approach things. ESO is a more than PvE zone and PvP zone. They want (and encourage) players to play their ENTIRE game. It’s a challenging game. EVERYONE PvEs until level 10.
I know, it’s hard to play a game where you’re scaled up to NPCs and suddenly start to fight people and get reckt. Yet, everyone can learn to kill people just as easily as killing some dungeon boss.
The joke when dueling some of my pals sometimes like, “What kind of dungeon boss are you today? MINI BOSS!” Lol.
Since ZOS seems to view their game as a whole, not separate zones, when people complain about PvP, I can’t help but think it’s a L2p issue because if they knew how to PvP they wouldn’t have an issue.1 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
I PvE in Vivec Lol. I do quests there. I even FARM there. I ALSO kill players and took the time to learn to do so. I entered Vivec at level 10.
There are plenty of places to ONLY PvE if you want to. ZOS wants you to play their WHOLE game so there are inventives for people to do both PvE and PvP.
You should really just l2p or l2pvp because once you do, PvEing in Cyrodiil won’t really be an issue.
Everyone dies. Everyone gets ganked. Everyone gets Zerged down. But once you l2p you’ll KILL those pesky nighblades. You’ll wreck Zergs. You won’t think to much of it.
ESO is a good game. Don’t shy away from a challenge. Step up and kill some people WHILE doing some quests.
This is the toxic behavior of PvP players. ''Everyone must do PvP!''
Gods above, you clearly have no clue how to handleVaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
No justified reason, hmmm? (I can't believe this necro'd thread is going strong)
Like it or not, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together. That means the whole player base benefits when players understand how both PVE and PVP work. The only way to make that happen is to force PVP players into PVE and PVE players into PVP.
And that's why ZOS designed PVP and PVE content so that everyone has to deal everything if they want all the rewards and the best gear. Removing the incentives for PVEers to go into PVP and at the very least get their toes wet for anniversary boxes, AP, tel var, caltrops, vigor, warhorn, etc. (Or allowing PVP players to skip undaunted, get dungeon gear, etc) means that players struggle when ZOS makes balance changes due to either PVP, PVE, or both. Instead, ZOS works hard to give players reasons to try out different playstyles and parts of the game.
We see the proof of this in the class representatice program, where the
representatives were chosen for expertise in both PVP and PVE.
So if you want a justified reason, maybe consider what benefit ZOS gets from the status quo and indeed from designing this game this way in the first place.
Mind you, this dastardly scheme of ZOS to get PVE players into PVP works in some cases. I used to be a PVE only player. I hated the idea of PVP, but I wanted those Master Angler fish. That's what got me started and now I PVP regularly.
Balances, eh? Tell me, what exactly is balanced about fishing and suddenly getting ganked? PvE players play PvE for a reason, as a prime example, Runescape did an excellent job of seperating this. It has (or had) seperate PvP servers, and it had the wilderness, a PvP zone. Mixing PvE and PvP always ends up with PvP players getting the better side of the bargain.
Oh, you almost killed this world boss? Well, too bad, because xXIganknoobsXx saw you lose quite a lot of health and decided to kill you just as you were about to kill the boss.
IC got completely ruined by the PvP/PvE mixed zone, it's a dead area because neither side can get any positives. The ones who want to beat the bosses get screwed over by PvP players, while there are too many PvE enemies for PvP players to really get into their element. Leaving both sides screwed.
The way they ''incite'' PvP playing is utterly disgusting. It's based on people with a lack of skill making PvE players so annoyed that they stop doing what they want and like to do, because they can't do those things with other players running around.
Give one good reason why PvE players should suffer at the expense of PvP players. PvE players aren't in the way of PvP players, the opposite is true.
Balanced? You are using that in a different sense than ZOS uses it. ZOS wants to have PVP and PVE work on similar principles as opposed to completely separating PVE and PVP. So until ZOS changes their mind (which they keep doubling down on it, so good luck), they will continue to encourage PVE players to go into PVP zones to give it a try. I already explained the benefits ZOS gets from doing that, including how they've emphasized that in the class representative program.
ZOS is well aware that many PVE only players hate having to PVP for skyshards, achievements, skills, and other rewards for doing the whole of the base game. They haven't changed the current system, and indeed keep adding rewards to PVP modes like Battlegrounds. (Insert the same speech about PVP players hating to PVE for stuff, and ZOS continuing to add PVE rewards.)
That's because this design benefits ZOS. It lets them continue to balance skills/classes for PVE and PVP together instead of separately. It lets them encourage people to play multiple game modes, not just the ones you happen to love. Whether that's PVP or PVE.
You don't like having to PVP, along with many other PVE players. We get that. ZOS hasnt managed to somehow miss that.
Unfortunately for you, the benefits ZOS derives from balancing PVE and PVP together rather than desperately, and also from encouraging players to play ALL of the game rather than conpletely segregating themselves into seperate communities outweighs the suffering of PVE only players "forced" to PVP or PVP players "forced" to PVE.
The problem is that you'll have a hard time finding PvE players demanding PvP rewards, because that's not what we're complaining about.
We're complaining about not being able to do part of the PvE element because of PvP players deciding to gank PvE players.
Mixing PvP and PvE only encourages the former while completely disrupting the latter. Barely anyone does PvE in Cyrodiil because of PvP players that gank 24/7, thinking they are ''pro's'', and that the others just have to ''get gud''.
Mixing a zone does not encourage trying out different game modes. Changing rewards does. And that change already exists. If people want PvP rewards, they have to do PvP, that's already a thing that exists. And that's not what we're complaining about.4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
I PvE in Vivec Lol. I do quests there. I even FARM there. I ALSO kill players and took the time to learn to do so. I entered Vivec at level 10.
There are plenty of places to ONLY PvE if you want to. ZOS wants you to play their WHOLE game so there are inventives for people to do both PvE and PvP.
You should really just l2p or l2pvp because once you do, PvEing in Cyrodiil won’t really be an issue.
Everyone dies. Everyone gets ganked. Everyone gets Zerged down. But once you l2p you’ll KILL those pesky nighblades. You’ll wreck Zergs. You won’t think to much of it.
ESO is a good game. Don’t shy away from a challenge. Step up and kill some people WHILE doing some quests.
This is the toxic behavior of PvP players. ''Everyone must do PvP!''
Gods above, you clearly have no clue how to handleVaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
No justified reason, hmmm? (I can't believe this necro'd thread is going strong)
Like it or not, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together. That means the whole player base benefits when players understand how both PVE and PVP work. The only way to make that happen is to force PVP players into PVE and PVE players into PVP.
And that's why ZOS designed PVP and PVE content so that everyone has to deal everything if they want all the rewards and the best gear. Removing the incentives for PVEers to go into PVP and at the very least get their toes wet for anniversary boxes, AP, tel var, caltrops, vigor, warhorn, etc. (Or allowing PVP players to skip undaunted, get dungeon gear, etc) means that players struggle when ZOS makes balance changes due to either PVP, PVE, or both. Instead, ZOS works hard to give players reasons to try out different playstyles and parts of the game.
We see the proof of this in the class representatice program, where the
representatives were chosen for expertise in both PVP and PVE.
So if you want a justified reason, maybe consider what benefit ZOS gets from the status quo and indeed from designing this game this way in the first place.
Mind you, this dastardly scheme of ZOS to get PVE players into PVP works in some cases. I used to be a PVE only player. I hated the idea of PVP, but I wanted those Master Angler fish. That's what got me started and now I PVP regularly.
Balances, eh? Tell me, what exactly is balanced about fishing and suddenly getting ganked? PvE players play PvE for a reason, as a prime example, Runescape did an excellent job of seperating this. It has (or had) seperate PvP servers, and it had the wilderness, a PvP zone. Mixing PvE and PvP always ends up with PvP players getting the better side of the bargain.
Oh, you almost killed this world boss? Well, too bad, because xXIganknoobsXx saw you lose quite a lot of health and decided to kill you just as you were about to kill the boss.
IC got completely ruined by the PvP/PvE mixed zone, it's a dead area because neither side can get any positives. The ones who want to beat the bosses get screwed over by PvP players, while there are too many PvE enemies for PvP players to really get into their element. Leaving both sides screwed.
The way they ''incite'' PvP playing is utterly disgusting. It's based on people with a lack of skill making PvE players so annoyed that they stop doing what they want and like to do, because they can't do those things with other players running around.
Give one good reason why PvE players should suffer at the expense of PvP players. PvE players aren't in the way of PvP players, the opposite is true.
Balanced? You are using that in a different sense than ZOS uses it. ZOS wants to have PVP and PVE work on similar principles as opposed to completely separating PVE and PVP. So until ZOS changes their mind (which they keep doubling down on it, so good luck), they will continue to encourage PVE players to go into PVP zones to give it a try. I already explained the benefits ZOS gets from doing that, including how they've emphasized that in the class representative program.
ZOS is well aware that many PVE only players hate having to PVP for skyshards, achievements, skills, and other rewards for doing the whole of the base game. They haven't changed the current system, and indeed keep adding rewards to PVP modes like Battlegrounds. (Insert the same speech about PVP players hating to PVE for stuff, and ZOS continuing to add PVE rewards.)
That's because this design benefits ZOS. It lets them continue to balance skills/classes for PVE and PVP together instead of separately. It lets them encourage people to play multiple game modes, not just the ones you happen to love. Whether that's PVP or PVE.
You don't like having to PVP, along with many other PVE players. We get that. ZOS hasnt managed to somehow miss that.
Unfortunately for you, the benefits ZOS derives from balancing PVE and PVP together rather than desperately, and also from encouraging players to play ALL of the game rather than conpletely segregating themselves into seperate communities outweighs the suffering of PVE only players "forced" to PVP or PVP players "forced" to PVE.
The problem is that you'll have a hard time finding PvE players demanding PvP rewards, because that's not what we're complaining about.
We're complaining about not being able to do part of the PvE element because of PvP players deciding to gank PvE players.
Mixing PvP and PvE only encourages the former while completely disrupting the latter. Barely anyone does PvE in Cyrodiil because of PvP players that gank 24/7, thinking they are ''pro's'', and that the others just have to ''get gud''.
Mixing a zone does not encourage trying out different game modes. Changing rewards does. And that change already exists. If people want PvP rewards, they have to do PvP, that's already a thing that exists. And that's not what we're complaining about.
Exactly! If you want the rewards that ZOS deliberately put in a PVP zone like Cyrodiil or Imperial City, you might have to PVP!
Is that intended by ZOS? Absolutely.
You want the achievement for all of the skyshards in the base game? ZOS didnt stick 4 skyshard behind enemy gates by accident.
You want Master Angler which means fishing in all base game zones? ZOS didn't forget that Cyrodiil was a PVP zone where PVP happens.
You want the reward boxes from doing dailies in Cyrodiil? Again, ZOS didn't forget that Cyrodiil is a PVP zone.
ZOS deliberately designed Imperial City to mash PVP into PVE activities. Its a ganker's paradise. That didnt happen by accident - its designed that way!
I'm 90% certain you and me have had this conversation before and we're not going to convince each other. Fair enough.
I'm pointing out that ZOS deliberately stuck PVE activities in a PVP zone, intending that PVE players would have to risk PVP in order to get the rewards for experiencing the whole game. I've pointed out the benefits ZOS gets for doing that.
This didnt happen by accident. ESO didn't get designed this way because PVPers want you to suffer. ZOS designed it this way, deliberately, and isn't going to change it because the benefits they get outweigh your suffering when you feel "forced" into PVP where ZOS knows full well that gankers lurk.Edited by VaranisArano on September 9, 2018 7:33PM0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
I PvE in Vivec Lol. I do quests there. I even FARM there. I ALSO kill players and took the time to learn to do so. I entered Vivec at level 10.
There are plenty of places to ONLY PvE if you want to. ZOS wants you to play their WHOLE game so there are inventives for people to do both PvE and PvP.
You should really just l2p or l2pvp because once you do, PvEing in Cyrodiil won’t really be an issue.
Everyone dies. Everyone gets ganked. Everyone gets Zerged down. But once you l2p you’ll KILL those pesky nighblades. You’ll wreck Zergs. You won’t think to much of it.
ESO is a good game. Don’t shy away from a challenge. Step up and kill some people WHILE doing some quests.
This is the toxic behavior of PvP players. ''Everyone must do PvP!''
Gods above, you clearly have no clue how to handleVaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »As a primarily PvP player id like Zos to allow a Dungeon intermission where I just get what I want at ease. Im tired of running Blackheart Haven for weeks trying to get a Bone Pirate 2h sword. I should just be able get what I want and ignore game design.
On a serious note I yearn for the day that Pvers stop complaining about having to PvP in Cyrodiil.
Why are you so bothered by PvE players wanting to PvE in a zone also designed for PvE? Are you one of those gankers who takes out PvE players?
Face it, there is no justified reason for you PvP players to complain about a seperate PvE suggestion.
No justified reason, hmmm? (I can't believe this necro'd thread is going strong)
Like it or not, ZOS balances PVP and PVE together. That means the whole player base benefits when players understand how both PVE and PVP work. The only way to make that happen is to force PVP players into PVE and PVE players into PVP.
And that's why ZOS designed PVP and PVE content so that everyone has to deal everything if they want all the rewards and the best gear. Removing the incentives for PVEers to go into PVP and at the very least get their toes wet for anniversary boxes, AP, tel var, caltrops, vigor, warhorn, etc. (Or allowing PVP players to skip undaunted, get dungeon gear, etc) means that players struggle when ZOS makes balance changes due to either PVP, PVE, or both. Instead, ZOS works hard to give players reasons to try out different playstyles and parts of the game.
We see the proof of this in the class representatice program, where the
representatives were chosen for expertise in both PVP and PVE.
So if you want a justified reason, maybe consider what benefit ZOS gets from the status quo and indeed from designing this game this way in the first place.
Mind you, this dastardly scheme of ZOS to get PVE players into PVP works in some cases. I used to be a PVE only player. I hated the idea of PVP, but I wanted those Master Angler fish. That's what got me started and now I PVP regularly.
Balances, eh? Tell me, what exactly is balanced about fishing and suddenly getting ganked? PvE players play PvE for a reason, as a prime example, Runescape did an excellent job of seperating this. It has (or had) seperate PvP servers, and it had the wilderness, a PvP zone. Mixing PvE and PvP always ends up with PvP players getting the better side of the bargain.
Oh, you almost killed this world boss? Well, too bad, because xXIganknoobsXx saw you lose quite a lot of health and decided to kill you just as you were about to kill the boss.
IC got completely ruined by the PvP/PvE mixed zone, it's a dead area because neither side can get any positives. The ones who want to beat the bosses get screwed over by PvP players, while there are too many PvE enemies for PvP players to really get into their element. Leaving both sides screwed.
The way they ''incite'' PvP playing is utterly disgusting. It's based on people with a lack of skill making PvE players so annoyed that they stop doing what they want and like to do, because they can't do those things with other players running around.
Give one good reason why PvE players should suffer at the expense of PvP players. PvE players aren't in the way of PvP players, the opposite is true.
Balanced? You are using that in a different sense than ZOS uses it. ZOS wants to have PVP and PVE work on similar principles as opposed to completely separating PVE and PVP. So until ZOS changes their mind (which they keep doubling down on it, so good luck), they will continue to encourage PVE players to go into PVP zones to give it a try. I already explained the benefits ZOS gets from doing that, including how they've emphasized that in the class representative program.
ZOS is well aware that many PVE only players hate having to PVP for skyshards, achievements, skills, and other rewards for doing the whole of the base game. They haven't changed the current system, and indeed keep adding rewards to PVP modes like Battlegrounds. (Insert the same speech about PVP players hating to PVE for stuff, and ZOS continuing to add PVE rewards.)
That's because this design benefits ZOS. It lets them continue to balance skills/classes for PVE and PVP together instead of separately. It lets them encourage people to play multiple game modes, not just the ones you happen to love. Whether that's PVP or PVE.
You don't like having to PVP, along with many other PVE players. We get that. ZOS hasnt managed to somehow miss that.
Unfortunately for you, the benefits ZOS derives from balancing PVE and PVP together rather than desperately, and also from encouraging players to play ALL of the game rather than conpletely segregating themselves into seperate communities outweighs the suffering of PVE only players "forced" to PVP or PVP players "forced" to PVE.
The problem is that you'll have a hard time finding PvE players demanding PvP rewards, because that's not what we're complaining about.
We're complaining about not being able to do part of the PvE element because of PvP players deciding to gank PvE players.
Mixing PvP and PvE only encourages the former while completely disrupting the latter. Barely anyone does PvE in Cyrodiil because of PvP players that gank 24/7, thinking they are ''pro's'', and that the others just have to ''get gud''.
Mixing a zone does not encourage trying out different game modes. Changing rewards does. And that change already exists. If people want PvP rewards, they have to do PvP, that's already a thing that exists. And that's not what we're complaining about.
Everyone gets ganked. I got ganked silly when I first started to PvP (AT LEVEL 10 in Full cp Vivec).
DAY Before yesterday, stepped out on the porch at Sej. Got ganked by a nerdblade. Rezzed back up and went right back out there 1v1ed and killed the nerd. No big deal.
If getting ganked is some kind of problem...learn PvP and kill the NB’s.
Last night I saw some 109cp DC hiding from half dozen AD near a resource flag. I was solo and thinking about killing him. My pals (these 1vXers many of whom you guys know or have heard of) were in discord with me but we’re off dueling somewhere all said “Kill that fool!” Basically. Which I did. Lol0 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭the area in question is in the middle of war, it is a sanctioned war zone. innocents die in war about as much as soldiers. Don't take it to personally, this has been part of the game since its launch, the war being part of the marketing as much as molag bal.
You assume all the risks entering a war zone.
Most early mmo had full on PK systems, not just faction vs faction pvp. They adapted. If you wanna do things, go in prepared and bring friends.
I rather not see something in the game dumb down because people take things to personally.
dying to a player, or a mob about the same. both camp the area, both can kill you repeatedly, and both will chase you. In both cases you should prepare yourself, and bring friends if needed. More people you have a higher chance of success.
Pk systems aka pvp itself has been dumb down, it use to be that the people could loot your corpse, as more people complained stuff became character bound (un-lootable) now pvp is regulated to servers, locations and corpse looting is no longer a thing.Edited by Azuramoonstar on September 9, 2018 8:00PMLong time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only way to make the PvE portion more bearable in PvP areas is to ACTUALLY PvP in PvP areas (and to LEARN to PvP if you don’t know how).
It’s ZOS’s intention that you PvP in PvP areas even while doing PvE type activities. Nerf PvP is not the answer. Particularly when it’s a l2p issue.2 -
drkfrontiers✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not a Pvper - my fingers lock-up and I spam the keyboard LOL
But, I find IC & Cyrodiil fine the way it is.
Actually paying attension to whats killing me and the tactics as they used by more experienced players helps alot.
Its fun to be part of a team even when ones loosing.
Only thing which is somewhat a pity is I feel very rushed in IC and don't get a chance to take it all in. Its a remarkable zone and very well thought out. It probably captures Elder Scrolls perfectly in many ways.
1.) What I would like to see though is some sort of mechanism to balance faction player count. I don't mind the fights but at times its as though there's 100 vs 20 in a good day. Maybe an underdog bonus of some kind?
2.) 2x Build setup. One you can slot for PVP and one that you can slot for PVE. Repecing each time is a pain.
Edited by drkfrontiers on September 9, 2018 8:21PM"One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche0 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭What ya got here is a bunch of game completionists petitioning ZoS to make completion easier because they actually won’t (not can’t, but won’t) complete content that might involve PvP b/c safe spaces excuse. Y’all need to complete gettin gud: the PvE in Cry-o-diil is so short, easy to do, and frankly requires zero PvP if you just pay attention to your surroundings that none of us can take you seriously: this is just plain whining. There’s barely any PvP left in 3 out of 4 of the campaigns in this game just go do the PvE in one of those, you’ll be done in an hour and feel embarrassed for sheetposting this kinda nonsense.
7 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drakkdjinn wrote: »What ya got here is a bunch of game completionists petitioning ZoS to make completion easier because they actually won’t (not can’t, but won’t) complete content that might involve PvP b/c safe spaces excuse. Y’all need to complete gettin gud: the PvE in Cry-o-diil is so short, easy to do, and frankly requires zero PvP if you just pay attention to your surroundings that none of us can take you seriously: this is just plain whining. There’s barely any PvP left in 3 out of 4 of the campaigns in this game just go do the PvE in one of those, you’ll be done in an hour and feel embarrassed for sheetposting this kinda nonsense.
No, not easy. It’s hard to do questing when other *** players kill you every time you step out to do the quest.
1 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Drakkdjinn wrote: »What ya got here is a bunch of game completionists petitioning ZoS to make completion easier because they actually won’t (not can’t, but won’t) complete content that might involve PvP b/c safe spaces excuse. Y’all need to complete gettin gud: the PvE in Cry-o-diil is so short, easy to do, and frankly requires zero PvP if you just pay attention to your surroundings that none of us can take you seriously: this is just plain whining. There’s barely any PvP left in 3 out of 4 of the campaigns in this game just go do the PvE in one of those, you’ll be done in an hour and feel embarrassed for sheetposting this kinda nonsense.
No, not easy. It’s hard to do questing when other *** players kill you every time you step out to do the quest.
You didn't even read my post.
4 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Drakkdjinn wrote: »What ya got here is a bunch of game completionists petitioning ZoS to make completion easier because they actually won’t (not can’t, but won’t) complete content that might involve PvP b/c safe spaces excuse. Y’all need to complete gettin gud: the PvE in Cry-o-diil is so short, easy to do, and frankly requires zero PvP if you just pay attention to your surroundings that none of us can take you seriously: this is just plain whining. There’s barely any PvP left in 3 out of 4 of the campaigns in this game just go do the PvE in one of those, you’ll be done in an hour and feel embarrassed for sheetposting this kinda nonsense.
No, not easy. It’s hard to do questing when other *** players kill you every time you step out to do the quest.
Have you, I don’t know, tried playing on an underpopulated campaign during off-peak hours? It really isn’t that hard to complete quests in Cyrodiil.
4 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Drakkdjinn wrote: »What ya got here is a bunch of game completionists petitioning ZoS to make completion easier because they actually won’t (not can’t, but won’t) complete content that might involve PvP b/c safe spaces excuse. Y’all need to complete gettin gud: the PvE in Cry-o-diil is so short, easy to do, and frankly requires zero PvP if you just pay attention to your surroundings that none of us can take you seriously: this is just plain whining. There’s barely any PvP left in 3 out of 4 of the campaigns in this game just go do the PvE in one of those, you’ll be done in an hour and feel embarrassed for sheetposting this kinda nonsense.
No, not easy. It’s hard to do questing when other *** players kill you every time you step out to do the quest.
KILL THEM. Players in Cyrodiil aren’t Immortal PvE guards. If you do damage to them and their health reaches zero, they die...and stuff.
If you can’t be bothered to learn to kill players, you ought not enter PvP areas for ANYTHING, especially something like questing.
Deep inside you might FEEL like you’re good at the game because you’ve learned some mechanics in some dungeons; but, you’ve only mastered a portion of the game.
You can learn to PvP too. I’m not being funny. You can. Put in the work. No one is supposed to just let you fish or farm or quest in Cyrodiil. ZOS green lighted you. Your death is sanctioned in Cyrodiil as soon as you leave the starting gate. It’s THE GAME. By design.
2 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is pvp played for fun, and there is pvp played for pride.
PvP played for fun will not yank the person just starting to get the sky shard, because the person playing for fun wants others to have fun too.
PvP played for pride will stroke the ego by jumping on that person and making them feel your pride as King Of The Land in some small way.
It is basic sportsmanship.Xbox NA2 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is pvp played for fun, and there is pvp played for pride.
PvP played for fun will not yank the person just starting to get the sky shard, because the person playing for fun wants others to have fun too.
PvP played for pride will stroke the ego by jumping on that person and making them feel your pride as King Of The Land in some small way.
It is basic sportsmanship.
I agree with you re: sportsmanship, but the one problem with that argument is that you can never assume that someone who’s collecting a skyshard (or questing, for that matter) has no intention of PVPing. I don’t have every Cyrodiil skyshard on any of my characters yet. If I come across them while going from point A to B, I’m picking them up. If some nightblade tries to snipe me from stealth, I can survive the hit and turn around to attack the would-be ganker because I’m a PVPer and am properly geared for a PVP environment.
If PVEers would swap out their full divines light/medium gear for PVP-appropriate gear and slot some defensive skills when they venture into Cyrodiil, they wouldn’t have quite so many problems when they run into gankers. It’s not difficult in the slightest. In fact, I’m going to do you PVEers a solid and give you a VERY cheap and easy-to-acquire defensive build to throw on all of your characters when you’re out questing/fishing/etc and fear the Dreaded Ganker.
5 pc Impregnable (jewellery, plus two heavy impen armour pieces — you will find oodles of this stuff for cheap in most traders), 5 pc Fortified Brass (three heavy impen armour pieces, weapons of your choice in defending), 1 pc Chudan, 1 pc Domihaus (light and medium). Purple health glyphs on everything. Don’t bother changing your CP, don’t bother changing your mundus. You’ll have enough crit resistance and phys/spell resistance to survive the average tryhard ganker. You’ll also have enough health to fool the ganker into thinking you’re a tank (making them less-likely to attack). If you get hit, spam self-heals, defensive buffs, and/or shields. If a ganker cannot one or two shot you, it will often stealth up and scurry away to nurse the blow to its fragile ego.3 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭Azurephoenix999 wrote: »Let me be frank, doing PVE content in Cyrodiil is a pain in the ass when you're inside enemy territory. Grabbing the skyshards inside enemy gates is a pain, doing quests in towns owned by enemy alliances is a pain, doing dark anchors is a pain, and don't even get me started on the dungeons.
I understand that Cyrodiil is a PVP oriented zone, but against their better judge
I believe that this could be made much more bearable through the use of intermissions (dunno if these are already in place as I don't spend a lot of time in Cyrodiil) in between the end of each campaign and the start of the next. They would last 1 day for 7 day campaigns, and 3 days for 30 day campaigns.
During these intermissions:- Alliances will own the keep, resources, and scrolls on their territory, and they cannot capture the ones owned by other alliances.
- Guards pertaining to specific alliances will NOT be present in Chorrol, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Vlastrus, or Cropsford.
- If players of different alliances go into dungeons, they will be in a separate instance of said dungeon.
- The gates guarding each elder scroll will be open, allowing members to grab the skyshards in those areas much more easily.
- Players can still complete scouting and bounty missions for alliance points, but those alliance points will not count towards the leaderboards.
If you dislike this idea for whatever reason (other than, "it's change and I don't like it") then please state why in the bottom and give some constructive feedback.
Also, because I know that someone's just going to look at this and say "entitled", *** you in advance. I'm making a suggestion. If people didn't make suggestions, the game wouldn't get any better and might even get worse.
*** me?? Well *** you!!!!!
What you should do is hire escorts to take you around and guard you while you pve.
If you're on pc NA I charge 50k an hr. @ br0steen in game2 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is pvp played for fun, and there is pvp played for pride.
PvP played for fun will not yank the person just starting to get the sky shard, because the person playing for fun wants others to have fun too.
PvP played for pride will stroke the ego by jumping on that person and making them feel your pride as King Of The Land in some small way.
It is basic sportsmanship.
I agree with you re: sportsmanship, but the one problem with that argument is that you can never assume that someone who’s collecting a skyshard (or questing, for that matter) has no intention of PVPing. I don’t have every Cyrodiil skyshard on any of my characters yet. If I come across them while going from point A to B, I’m picking them up. If some nightblade tries to snipe me from stealth, I can survive the hit and turn around to attack the would-be ganker because I’m a PVPer and am properly geared for a PVP environment.
If PVEers would swap out their full divines light/medium gear for PVP-appropriate gear and slot some defensive skills when they venture into Cyrodiil, they wouldn’t have quite so many problems when they run into gankers. It’s not difficult in the slightest. In fact, I’m going to do you PVEers a solid and give you a VERY cheap and easy-to-acquire defensive build to throw on all of your characters when you’re out questing/fishing/etc and fear the Dreaded Ganker.
5 pc Impregnable (jewellery, plus two heavy impen armour pieces — you will find oodles of this stuff for cheap in most traders), 5 pc Fortified Brass (three heavy impen armour pieces, weapons of your choice in defending), 1 pc Chudan, 1 pc Domihaus (light and medium). Purple health glyphs on everything. Don’t bother changing your CP, don’t bother changing your mundus. You’ll have enough crit resistance and phys/spell resistance to survive the average tryhard ganker. You’ll also have enough health to fool the ganker into thinking you’re a tank (making them less-likely to attack). If you get hit, spam self-heals, defensive buffs, and/or shields. If a ganker cannot one or two shot you, it will often stealth up and scurry away to nurse the blow to its fragile ego.
The major flaw with your response is that it relies on only one ganker.
My main achievement character is a Templar healer. A few days ago I went to the center to farm molag bal because that frigging skin still hadn’t dropped for me after 3 years, but a bunch of people decided that they needed to strike just BEFORE we killed him, and kept us from getting rezzed to loot the ash pile. Maybe it dropped. Maybe not. The ash pile doesn’t remain there through enough loading screens to revive all the way back at base and then walk all the way to the center to check. That is, not to be too subtle, a d(i)ck move by those other people. A d(i)ck move.
So I put on my 3 pieces of fort brass along with the fort brass resto staff, took off all other armor to display I wasn’t geared, and put on my Master Angler title. I put on the glowing psijic tattoos to more easily show I was naked and not merely concealed under a costume, and I let the *** have their spot. I went up to the districts to do some fishing for that achievement.
I got ganked a few times. I guess standing with fishing pole in the water, naked and glowing, was too threatening to the people that sneaked up on me.
Now I’m going to point out that this wasn’t some situation where they and I stumbled on each other while on the move. I was standing there, unmoving and clearly not hunting anything other than rare fish. These people clearly had every advantage over me from the start. They approached me from safety, had all the time in the world to look at me, and still decided that I needed to be doing something other than fishing.
I got chased from district to district, never managing to finish even ONE full fishing hole. The closest I got was when I was fishing under a flag and a bunch of that flag noticed me on their way through. A few of them also started fishing, but after a couple minutes others came along and decided I should not be able to fish.
So I left.
Between the mid year mayhem and the imperial city dlc anniversary, the pvp side of the game gets maybe one month worth of event time. Meanwhile the witch festival, new life, jester, various other events, anniversaries, all hype the pve side. During them you do find people handing out free pumpkin and ingredients to people that don’t know how to otherwise get the stuff for xp cake or the witch mother brew quest. You see people standing and doing zero damage to the wolves and wasps in betnikh so that others can get a hit in to get credit. You see the same sort of friendly fellowship in all the pve events. People standing in that alik’r town offering to help people get the speedy watch fire achievement, for example. People standing at those event fishing holes offering the fish that just won’t drop.
But during the pvp events, instead of letting the group finish off molag bal, doing a bomb on those weakened by that final blast, and taking the gains from the successful strike... instead we get people doing the bomb before the ballbag dies and active prevention of us even checking for that sweet sweet rare drop that hasn’t come in years. Instead of letting the person who is already fishing just continue to fish, we get attacked from stealth and a ultimate dropped on our naked heads.
The comparison is clear. The pve side of the game is simply more welcoming and fun. And the pvp side of the game is simply not. So, the pvp side of the game suffers. People leave, do not return outside of special events, and the rest of the time the population plummets. It’s like a resort town economy, booming for a few weeks each year but sad and bleak and deserted the rest of the time. Like the boardwalk at Seaside, a tourist destination in summer but once Labor Day passes by it is abandoned. Shops close up, not to even have lights turned on for the next 6 months.
It’s the exceptions that make the contrast even more blatant. During mid year, I heard one trove scamp spawn point was the most reliable. So I went there and waited, and ended up with a small ceasefire for the purposes of getting that scamp. Moments where people recognize those are other people playing should not be rare or noteworthy in PvP. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce
Look at the pvp experience that the pvp community has built. Look at the numbers. Compare how many campaigns used to maintain a solid
population to how many there are now, and consider that the population of the game itself added a million players just in the past year.
The pvp community needs to do something to cease being a-holes to the pve people who show up. Clearly, fewer and fewer of us bother to stay at all once the events end. Again, just look at the obvious evidence of declining numbers of campaigns and declining populations to see I am right about pvp being abandoned.Edited by Cryptical on September 10, 2018 3:57AMXbox NA4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, its definitely the unwelcoming atmosphere created by those horrible PVPers that's to blame for the low population in PVP compared to PVE.
ZOS is in no way to blame for years of ongoing, persistent performance issues with PVP that fundamentally impact our ability to PVP.
(Did you somehow manage to miss that in PVP, players have incentives to kill you even if you are fishing? There's no real equivalent to that in the PVE events.)3
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