Give spell-crit to Daggers, and Spell-pen to Hammers, please.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

Mauls/Maces right now ignore 10% physical resistance.
Daggers give weapon critical.
Axes apply a bleed.
Whilst Sword gives overall damage buff.

Out of all these only one weapon type - namely swords - are viable for magicka based builds.
I believe it would be a good idea to increase that number, just by making the Hammers/Mauls/Maces also impact spell resistance along with physical. And giving spell-crit to the daggers.

As for axes bleed. I can't really imagine a "magical bleeding".
So i guess axes should be given the sword(damage buff) or maul(ignore resistance) bonus if max magicka is higher than max stamina - Or just give them magical bleeding - Or leave them alone as they are.

But yes. Solving dagger/maul problem sounds pretty simple compared to axes, and opens some new doors and weapon availability for magicka builds.

----
Personally i am passionate about this because I don't like using staves/or ranged combat.
Also, Last year I had once put a gold enchant on a thunderbug dagger, just to later realize it only gives wep-crit

Royaji · September 2018

Saying that swords are viable for magicka builds after all the changes to light attack is quite a bit of a stretch. Long gone are the days of dual wield templars and DKs. ZOS does not want magicka builds running stamina weapons.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

That is true. The light attack changes, and the heavy attack resource regen system locked to weapon types, has not been fun.

DanteYoda · September 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Saying that swords are viable for magicka builds after all the changes to light attack is quite a bit of a stretch. Long gone are the days of dual wield templars and DKs. ZOS does not want magicka builds running stamina weapons.

Why?

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

^
It's because swords etc do physical damage, which isn't something magicka builds have their penetration etc tuned up for.

It wasn't as much of a problem earlier, but since the light attack 'reconfigurations', light attacks are a significantly higher percentage of a player's damage output. Which is not a good news if your light attacks are not the same damage type as your skills.

Starlock · September 2018

Viable? By whose standards? I don’t have any issues using daggers on my sneaky magical cat. That said, I’m not against the option.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2018

Starlock wrote: »

Viable? By whose standards? I don’t have any issues using daggers on my sneaky magical cat. That said, I’m not against the option.

In group content.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

Starlock wrote: »

Viable? By whose standards? I don’t have any issues using daggers on my sneaky magical cat. That said, I’m not against the option.

Can't do that sort of thing in 1vX PvP.

templesus · September 2018

Sure. While we’re at it, give us a 2h version of Daggers to give crit.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

^nah.

Sword = 1/2 of a Greatsword
Dagger = 1/4 of a Greatsword

Kadoin · September 2018

Any hybrid buff would be a good buff...if hybrid builds become #1 in PvP, then I won't be crying. The stam/mag divide is what really fuels nerfs and other changes no one wants anyway.

LadyNalcarya · September 2018

Royaji wrote: »

Saying that swords are viable for magicka builds after all the changes to light attack is quite a bit of a stretch. Long gone are the days of dual wield templars and DKs. ZOS does not want magicka builds running stamina weapons.

This ^
They buffed light attack dps, and physical weapons do physical damage with light attacks and restore stamina with heavies.
After Summerset buff, light attacks are pretty much #1 damage source for magicka builds (I'm not joking, it's actually on top of parses, contributing around 10k dps), and losing them will lower the damage.
I'm personally kinda salty about this, not only I prefer medium weaving (it looks more smooth and works more reliably), I really liked my dual wield magplar setup. I really dont wanna play magplar like a sorc with elemental weapon or force pulse and that's annoying.

SilverWF · September 2018

Not.
Use proper weapons.

code65536 · September 2018

Good riddance. Dual-wield magicka is dead and should just stay dead.

Staves counting for 2 set bonuses eliminated the biggest advantage of dual-wield. And the 8% damage buff for staves--8% single target for fire and 8% AoE for lightning--outweigh the 5% from dual swords and whatever extra SD you get. In addition to light and heavy attacks actually working properly with a staff.

Never liked the clunkiness of stamina weapons on magicka, and I'm glad to see it gone.

D0PAMINE · September 2018

I still keep my DW War Maiden Swords in my inv for quick Kena proc when I spam Sap and Bats, but it's not as viable as it once was.

Savos_Saren · September 2018

Give SnB both 5% weapon AND spell damage for the passive, Sword and Board.

Jhalin · September 2018

DW Swords are still fine for bomb builds, but there’s really not much to support melee weapons for magicka based characters. They don’t restore mag, and i can only imagine how quick things would break if they tried to give it the ol “returns your highest max stat” treatment. They also only do physical damage, so the extra spell crit or spell pen wouldn’t find any use for your light attacks.

Something that could be feasible is a Bound Weapons line. ZOS could even make it paid feature to covert melee weapons to bound weapons that could use the skill line.

It’d be interesting, but I don’t imagine we’d be getting it any time soon even if they started working on it months ago.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

They don’t restore mag, and i can only imagine how quick things would break if they tried to give it the ol “returns your highest max stat” treatment.

Wait, was that ever a thing?
Returning highest stat?

code65536 · September 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

DW Swords are still fine for bomb builds

Use a lightning staff instead. 8% damage boost to AoE damage (i.e., all bomb damage). Versus 5% from dual swords plus a modest amount of extra spell damage. (If your bomb is a destro bomb, then you also get extra penetration.)

The end result is that the lighting staff will do similar damage as dual swords (and if you stacked a lot into max mag and SD, lightning will outperform dual swords) but at a lower cost (1 weapon, improved by 8 Rosin vs. 2 weapons improved by 16 Alloys) and greater versatility (i.e., you can actually do non-bomb damage on that bar!)

There literally is no legitimate use case for dual swords. Not even for bombing.

Beardimus · September 2018

The horse has bolted dude, that ship has sailed.

I'd have been all for it, but since they beating in MagDW every patch its unlikely they going to make a back track on the crappy direction they headed for all Magika Toons to run two staffs and one skill - Reach.

Ankael07 · September 2018

I wouldnt hold my breath for anything remotely hybrid. Every patch theres been something to remove hybrid from the game. The latest addition was making light/heavy attacks scale off of your max resource and damage stat.

TheShadowScout · September 2018

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Give spell-crit to Daggers, and Spell-pen to Hammers, please.

Why?
I mean, that looks like one of the silliest thoughts I have seen in quite some while...

Why would a -physical- weapon that has an advantage in a -physical- field give the same advantage to a non-pnysical magical attack??
Why would holding a pointy dagger that's good for stabbing vital sports (aka, critical) help you in any way to cast spells better?
Why should holding a hammer that's good for breaking bones through flexible armor help your spell get past the targets mystical spell resistances?

Have you been looking at the -rules- so much that you forgot the effects they try to emulate?

...

If anything, there should be different flavors of -magical- weapons that give perks to magical attacks! Staves that, I dunno, give spell penetration! Spell foci like holy symbols or meditation crystals that give spell critical instead! Though I guess there could be other differences there as well... and should, to make magical weapons different from physical ones, and magica characters different from stamina characters... like, perhaps, bonus range and bonus power?
As I kept saying: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/371862/additional-weapon-skill-ideas-mk-ii

Jhalin · September 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

DW Swords are still fine for bomb builds

Use a lightning staff instead. 8% damage boost to AoE damage (i.e., all bomb damage). Versus 5% from dual swords plus a modest amount of extra spell damage. (If your bomb is a destro bomb, then you also get extra penetration.)

The end result is that the lighting staff will do similar damage as dual swords (and if you stacked a lot into max mag and SD, lightning will outperform dual swords) but at a lower cost (1 weapon, improved by 8 Rosin vs. 2 weapons improved by 16 Alloys) and greater versatility (i.e., you can actually do non-bomb damage on that bar!)

There literally is no legitimate use case for dual swords. Not even for bombing.

It’s not that bad, considering the price of Spinner Destro staves, or Vicious Death Destro staves. It’s an acceptable stand in until you get lucky with those drops

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

TheShadowScout wrote: »

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Give spell-crit to Daggers, and Spell-pen to Hammers, please.

Why?
I mean, that looks like one of the silliest thoughts I have seen in quite some while...

Why would a -physical- weapon that has an advantage in a -physical- field give the same advantage to a non-pnysical magical attack??
Why would holding a pointy dagger that's good for stabbing vital sports (aka, critical) help you in any way to cast spells better?
Why should holding a hammer that's good for breaking bones through flexible armor help your spell get past the targets mystical spell resistances?

Have you been looking at the -rules- so much that you forgot the effects they try to emulate?

Because Mass(Physical things) is nothing but concentrated energy.
And those metal weapons are the most efficient way to impart/transfer the magical energy into something.

It's the difference between administering a medicine to someone via syringe, vs just sparing the said medicine on him from afar.

Animus-ESO · September 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

DW Swords are still fine for bomb builds

Use a lightning staff instead. 8% damage boost to AoE damage (i.e., all bomb damage). Versus 5% from dual swords plus a modest amount of extra spell damage. (If your bomb is a destro bomb, then you also get extra penetration.)

The end result is that the lighting staff will do similar damage as dual swords (and if you stacked a lot into max mag and SD, lightning will outperform dual swords) but at a lower cost (1 weapon, improved by 8 Rosin vs. 2 weapons improved by 16 Alloys) and greater versatility (i.e., you can actually do non-bomb damage on that bar!)

There literally is no legitimate use case for dual swords. Not even for bombing.

2h gives more aoe damage and single target damage then fire/lightning staff.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

2h gives more aoe damage and single target damage then fire/lightning staff.

Can you please highlight what exactly are you talking about?
As I can't see in two-hander passives, any AOE bonuses applicable in the bomb/magic cases .

TheShadowScout · September 2018

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

madeeh91rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Give spell-crit to Daggers, and Spell-pen to Hammers, please.

Why?
I mean, that looks like one of the silliest thoughts I have seen in quite some while...

Why would a -physical- weapon that has an advantage in a -physical- field give the same advantage to a non-pnysical magical attack??
Why would holding a pointy dagger that's good for stabbing vital sports (aka, critical) help you in any way to cast spells better?
Why should holding a hammer that's good for breaking bones through flexible armor help your spell get past the targets mystical spell resistances?

Have you been looking at the -rules- so much that you forgot the effects they try to emulate?

Because Mass(Physical things) is nothing but concentrated energy.
And those metal weapons are the most efficient way to impart/transfer the magical energy into something.

It's the difference between administering a medicine to someone via syringe, vs just sparing the said medicine on him from afar.

...and that is weapon enchantments. What you are talking about here. You know, where you strike with a weapon, and it "injects" an magic effect on impact? They even come in two variants, rune-based enchantments, and occasional spell-based temporary empowerments.

But show me the spell (aka, class skill or magical guild skill) you have to hammer home like nail...

Or make an argument me how -holding- your hammer while casting a spell would affect it in any way. (Wait, not THAT hammer, the metal one for hitting people over the head with!)

Face it, a weapon made for -physical- combat would do -nothing- for magical effects.
And a item made to empower magical effects... would have to be made and enchanted for that purpose.

Its much like... a hammer to hammer nails with will do -nothing- for a software issue, and a debug tool to affect the software will do nothing for the nail...

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · September 2018

It doesn't necessarily have to be an enchantment.
If you can throw fire or shock at an enemy via a staff from afar, you can.

But if you can use a tool that can actually get through a subject's skin, hence bypassing more protections and resistance than you can whilst using a staff, then you can theoretically do more damage to the subject with the said tool as compared to just an external staff.

Facefister · September 2018

Magic underlies and defines nature. Nature is merely the manifestation of the mundane aspect of magic.

-Danir, Mages Guild Riften

It makes sense that certain weapons types and metals could amplify or diminish arcane and/or daedric magic.

Cadbury · September 2018

Well, since I see alot of bow-wielding mag players, maybe bow needs to have spell-crit too.

Facefister · September 2018

Take heat or electrical current as an example:
Certain metals provide better conditions for those than other metals.