Giving Up On Sorc

pieratsos · September 2018

jabrone77 wrote: »

Posted in the other sorc thread, but make sense to post here as well...

Here's a guildmate of mine, Despotic. You may have seen his channel. He plays battlegrounds frequently and has a very high MMR. Before everyone screams his score is from stealing kills, no one in this match (except for him, meaning kills were stolen from him) has double digits in assists, meaning he stole very few kills.
The results speak for themselves.

https://youtu.be/tRn_Ki7uy8M

31/0/11....in a high MMR match with little if any kill steals.
As a sorc myself, all the whining over the class is getting embarrassing. It's like a little kid with a shiny new toy(sorc), but crying because the kid across the street (nightblade) is just a tad more shiny.

Here's my PvE geared sorc (all divines, no impen, one shield, no rune cage) in a battleground last night.
https://imgur.com/kwh4YTp

Sorcs are in a good place. Stop whining because you're not number one. It's damn embarrassing for the rest of us who still can play sorc.
Or keep stompin your feet like silly spoiled kids...whatever...

What exactly is so impressive about that video or ur 400k dmg BG screenshot?

The-Baconator · September 2018

Hal_Moore wrote: »

I can't help but notice a lot of people that do compare mag sorc to other classes often compare them to stamina versions of the classes.

Stam vs Mag I think mag is harder to play in cyrodiil in general.

Really depends on the build and what you're trying to do with it. A medium armor stam dk is far more unforgiving than just about any mag spec whereas an average heavy armor stamwarden can practically afk tank most ranged builds.

Joy_Division wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Posted in the other sorc thread, but make sense to post here as well...

Here's a guildmate of mine, Despotic. You may have seen his channel. He plays battlegrounds frequently and has a very high MMR. Before everyone screams his score is from stealing kills, no one in this match (except for him, meaning kills were stolen from him) has double digits in assists, meaning he stole very few kills.
The results speak for themselves.

https://youtu.be/tRn_Ki7uy8M

31/0/11....in a high MMR match with little if any kill steals.
As a sorc myself, all the whining over the class is getting embarrassing. It's like a little kid with a shiny new toy(sorc), but crying because the kid across the street (nightblade) is just a tad more shiny.

Here's my PvE geared sorc (all divines, no impen, one shield, no rune cage) in a battleground last night.
https://imgur.com/kwh4YTp

Sorcs are in a good place. Stop whining because you're not number one. It's damn embarrassing for the rest of us who still can play sorc.
Or keep stompin your feet like silly spoiled kids...whatever...

Aren't you a nightblade main?

No sir. I main sorc. I just don't agree it's all doom and gloom. My nightblade is a rarely used PvE tank.

It's strange. I come to these forums talking about how sorcs are in a good place, how they are still fine, and generally saying good things about the class. And who jumps on me?

Other sorcs.

You have to understand, I'm just tired of the crying. I go out into Cyrodiil or battlegrounds and get far more kills than deaths. Isn't that what matters? What does pointing fingers at other classes do for us except make us look like whiners and cry babies? There's hardly any constructive discussion, it's all frothing at the mouth, blaming other classes, and tears.
Anytime someone says sorcs are fine, the inevitable response is "yeah, but nightblades..."
It's old.
I'm done discussing my class with players who don't see reason, and just want to bring others down, and why? Because they were overperforming, admittedly by other sorcs as well, so I'm told. Last time I brought up rune cage sorcs screamed at me "We told Zos it was overperforming!!" So, I'm done.

Have you considered:
that you get far more kills than deaths because you are better than most of the people you are playing against

that you get far more kills than deaths because you are playing a potent offensive class that generally is positioned behind other players and thus is usually safe from danger while racking up kills

that people play this game to have fun, and fun is not necessarily a function of kill to death ratio

How else can we measure sorcerer effectiveness without comparing it to the context of other classes? That's not necessarily finger pointing. Kill to death ratio isn't at all a very reliable tool at all because zerg-surfing and spamming endless fury does not make a class strong.

I don't main a sorcerer, but I play one, and regardless of what kill:death ratio I get, it is very hard to argue that the feel and gameplay of a sorcerer has not fundamentally changed in the past year and a half. If someone fell in love with ESO because of how their sorcerer main played - which is a very different thing from raw power - it is easy to see where their complaints are coming from. And it also hard to argue that somehow the new different gameplay is an improvement, when the options are fewer and the developers keep going back and forth trying to figure out how to replace something that was a class-defining skill in crystal fragments.

Sorc players are going to get defensive when non-sorc players also froth at the mouth and tell them they need to git gud and their class is the real victims of ZoS's nerfs.

I would argue that mag sorc has probably been the most stale class archtype over the last 2-3 years. From a mag perspective there's a lot of different ways you can gear your mag blade\warden\dk\temp to to fullfill fairly varied purposes in somewhat different ways, with mag temp being the closest thing to a possible exception. There are so many interesting choices I might make on other classes between skills\gear that really allow you to take a lot of different approaches to dealing damage and ultimately killing players depending on what you're looking for--do you want to be tanky with good single target, a balance of good AoE and single target, good AoE damage and AoE control, do you want good AoE and strong off heals\group support, etc.

For example, on a sorc if it I were to drop something along the lines of harness + frag + curse in order to throw on 1-3 AoE damage or control skills, my AoE damage\CC will still be inferior to a magicka dk\warden's AoE while the opportunity cost of doing so sinks my single target below theirs, not to mention without harness they would also have me on survivability as well. Similarly, mag sorc v magblade single target effectiveness is fairly close open world with one tool kit coming out ahead of the other depending on the situation. However, if the nightblade were to sacrifice 2 or 3 skill slots to get AoE damage\CC they would loose much less of their single target effectiveness while gaining much more in the AoE damage\CC department. Magplar as I said was a pretty close match for mag sorc because ultimately their ceiling for both AoE and single target dps\CC isn't quite as high as the other classes (and ofc their mobility limitations), but you also bring solid group utility with you on essentially every build so it's a bit of a toss up.

This essentially means that if you want to do anything other than pure single target or negate\rapids support build for a ball group you're better off on another class by far. And when a class is really only played one specific way with the same antiquated tool kit for literally three years without any semi significant changes outside of nerfs, it's naturally going to get pretty rough for even the most ardent supporters, no matter how effective it as at what is does. What the sorc class needs is the ability to do something other than use an incredibly predictable single target burst windup and negate, because the biggest problem for sorc for me right now is that what's there is totally played out and there is not even a semi viable option #2 to go to.

Jhalin · September 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Let me ask all of you this:

When was NB a bottom tier class?

Were you not here for the first two years of the game?

Valrien · September 2018

Sigma957 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Sigma957 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

what are the 2 strongest heals we have? and resto obviously requires the resto staff, which is an insane gimp to be be saddled with when ever other class has class heals, nbs and dks have it as their spammable for god sakes

The twilight pet has some of the strongest burst heals in game, not only does it heal you but another person as well.

You can't be serious right?

Can easily get 20K+ heal out of it in pve by one press of a button and in pvp can do 10k+ so yes very serious. You pop a shield on yuorself and it goes on the pet as well, heal yourself, some one else + plus the pet

edit- Run with necropotence set and your magicka is up to 50k or more.

And pets...well...suck? Is it that hard to understand that pets take up 2 bar slots and can die very easily? Not to mention it's pretty damn expensive

Jhalin wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Let me ask all of you this:

When was NB a bottom tier class?

Were you not here for the first two years of the game?

2 years is very generous. I don't even think it was 1

LittlePinkDot · September 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

Ive been playing magsorc since I started playing again after one tam, the state the class is in currently is just sad. Sorcs have been made into noob and nb killers in pvp and only shine in pve when it comes to killing large amounts of trash, even then we are arguably out shined by nightblades.

Our sustain is terrible. our burst in pvp is lower and slower than nbs, predictable easily blocked and healed through. heals are sub par to every single class. execute while strong in pvp (one of the FEW things that still gives this class a heartbeat) is weaker than nb in pve by alot. light armor and shield where sorcs find their strength are less favorable to every other class in heavy armor. pve damage and lighting damage are lower than nbs by 10-15k easily. we lack the set support for our class where nbs have sets that are all but tailor made for them with nbs getting a set to utilize every patch while sorcs are still in lambris, juli, necro, mothers sorrow (ill give you siroria is a plus).

Race changed my woodelf thief blade to a highelf mnb geared it out in purple and FIRST dps test I was hitting withing 4k of my highelf magsorc in fully gold gear that I have practiced the rotation of for over a year, while trying to squeeze every last bit of dps out of it.

I really hope update 20 lets gives me a reason to go back to my favorite class

I started with magsorc and struggled so much. I figured it was partially because I had no cp. The sustain was horrible, have to use shields but run out of magicka and then cannot attack. Slow, clunky.
I made a stamblade and I love how fast she is, no heavy attacking. Ive only dipped into pvp seriously, not vet dugeons.
I have a mageblade mule Ive decided to make a pve dps because I heard their sustain is the best out of all mag characters. So far it seems easier then. Mag sorc although ive just started and have 326 cp this time.
I just think Zos needs to buff sustain for the other classes. Heavy attacking every other second is so boring and slow. I was turned off of all mag characters because of magsorc. Stam seems so much better, my stamwarden is fun and tanky.

Maybe you should do a race change and make a stam sorc.

Priyasekarssk · September 2018

jabrone77 wrote: »

I have to believe anyone who is a sorc complaining about quiting the class just isn't skilled at sorc. Plain and simple.
If you have skill, where's your screen shots? Where's your videos showing your skill?
Ah, but that's the thing, isn't it. If you show you're skilled at sorc, it's hard to say it's underperforming and needs buffs, isn't it? Hard to say sorc isn't good when you're showing yourself preforming well on it, right? So, enjoy that corner you've painted yourself into.

I've said enough on this topic. I'm sad and embarrassed for my fellow sorc players.

Where is your video winning a dueling tournament against competent players with magic sorc or just any player winning with magic sorc ? [removed baiting comment]

Ragnarock41 · September 2018

Have fun learning to play.

Mintaka5 · September 2018

I am totally on board with OP. Magsorcs are just a dud. The skill argument is irrelevant. I've experimented with other builds, and TBH sorcs are predictable, and slow. They've been nerfed into oblivion. Every patch has more and more nerfs for sorcs than most other classes, and it seems if there are other nerfs in the patches they are focused more on classless skills. My K:D on my DKs and NBs are way higher than on my magsorcs (maybe except my stamsorc). Even both my magplar and stamplar out perform my magsorc builds (yes all 3 of them). Even the wardens have been granted god-like rotations. I mean really the magsorc has been made so unenjoyable in PvP, I barely log onto them anymore.

AbysmalGhul · September 2018

A lot of these post a very laughable. I am both amused and saddened, but mostly saddened.

ParaNostram · September 2018

My issue with sorcs is a lack of build variety. The game makes you play a sorc a certain way or suffer.

templesus · September 2018

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

ezio45 · September 2018

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

Priyasekarssk · September 2018

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

Just give class change token to sorcs. Just remove sorc from the game. It may make everyone to play game again. Are you serious stam DKs wants more buff ? sorc no 2 ?

Inarre · September 2018

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I’m genuinely curious, why do you think sorcs need to outshine NBs? NBs might be overtuned, but they each have their own utility and strengths. Why do you want to outdo them so bad?

Sorcs don't need to outshine them, but they need more to offer. Because NBs are so overtuned right now the state of competitive gaming is one dimensional. If you play anything but an NB DPS as a magic class, you can do the content but youre looked at as doing a disservice to your team because you could offer so much more as an NB both in damage and utility. Same goes for stam classes. And if you're a magic melee toon like magdk, well.

templesus · September 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

You realize that liquid lightning is the reason sorc dps is picked over Templar, Dk, and Warden, correct? They have a unique synergy that allows alkosh uptime to be higher then if you do not have a sorc in your group.

This is the problem with these forums. People who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about continuously post as if they have their facts straight and make broad false claims and assumptions.

ChefZero · September 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Let me ask all of you this:

When was NB a bottom tier class?

1st and maybe most time of the 2nd year

gamerguy757 · September 2018

MagSorc isn’t easy, but I still face 1v3 and win with mine. The key is timing. Even with rune cage nerf, it’s still very viable.
Lich bro...LICH

Valrien · September 2018

templesus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

You realize that liquid lightning is the reason sorc dps is picked over Templar, Dk, and Warden, correct? They have a unique synergy that allows alkosh uptime to be higher then if you do not have a sorc in your group.

This is the problem with these forums. People who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about continuously post as if they have their facts straight and make broad false claims and assumptions.

That's why 1 Sorc is meta. A few organized groups that I've seen run 1 Sorc healer, 1 Templar Healer, 8 NB DPS, 1 DK Tank, and 1 DK/Warden Off-Tank. Because since all you need is the concussion uptime and the Synergy, you don't actually need the Sorc to DPS :P

Lylith · September 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Let me ask all of you this:

When was NB a bottom tier class?

my original main is a stam nb. they weren't quite so pretty at launch.

The-Baconator · September 2018

templesus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

You realize that liquid lightning is the reason sorc dps is picked over Templar, Dk, and Warden, correct? They have a unique synergy that allows alkosh uptime to be higher then if you do not have a sorc in your group.

This is the problem with these forums. People who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about continuously post as if they have their facts straight and make broad false claims and assumptions.

Or perhaps the person was referencing PvP in which case I'm not sure what you could really contest from their statement.

templesus · September 2018

Valrien wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

You realize that liquid lightning is the reason sorc dps is picked over Templar, Dk, and Warden, correct? They have a unique synergy that allows alkosh uptime to be higher then if you do not have a sorc in your group.

This is the problem with these forums. People who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about continuously post as if they have their facts straight and make broad false claims and assumptions.

That's why 1 Sorc is meta. A few organized groups that I've seen run 1 Sorc healer, 1 Templar Healer, 8 NB DPS, 1 DK Tank, and 1 DK/Warden Off-Tank. Because since all you need is the concussion uptime and the Synergy, you don't actually need the Sorc to DPS :P

Nothing you just stated has anything to do with what he said. “Dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that.” That is the comment I was disproving, nothing to do with DPS or why 1 sorc is chosen, simply the fact he seems to think that Dk Templar and Warden have better group buffs then sorc, when in fact they don’t.

Also 1 sorc dps actually isn’t the best group comp. The best is 8 mag nb dps 1 dk tank 1 dk/Warden off tank 1 Templar healer 1 sorc healer.

The-Baconator wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

You realize that liquid lightning is the reason sorc dps is picked over Templar, Dk, and Warden, correct? They have a unique synergy that allows alkosh uptime to be higher then if you do not have a sorc in your group.

This is the problem with these forums. People who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about continuously post as if they have their facts straight and make broad false claims and assumptions.

Or perhaps the person was referencing PvP in which case I'm not sure what you could really contest from their statement.

...except that they weren’t. Scroll up.

Juhasow · September 2018

jabrone77 wrote: »

Posted in the other sorc thread, but make sense to post here as well...

Here's a guildmate of mine, Despotic. You may have seen his channel. He plays battlegrounds frequently and has a very high MMR. Before everyone screams his score is from stealing kills, no one in this match (except for him, meaning kills were stolen from him) has double digits in assists, meaning he stole very few kills.
The results speak for themselves.

https://youtu.be/tRn_Ki7uy8M

31/0/11....in a high MMR match with little if any kill steals.
As a sorc myself, all the whining over the class is getting embarrassing. It's like a little kid with a shiny new toy(sorc), but crying because the kid across the street (nightblade) is just a tad more shiny.

Here's my PvE geared sorc (all divines, no impen, one shield, no rune cage) in a battleground last night.
https://imgur.com/kwh4YTp

Sorcs are in a good place. Stop whining because you're not number one. It's damn embarrassing for the rest of us who still can play sorc.
Or keep stompin your feet like silly spoiled kids...whatever...

High MMR LOL. You really overestimate or dont understand how matchmaker works. Beeing ranked high in it doesnt mean that You wont get queued against noobs anymore and in this video like 3/4 of match participants are average or under avegare players. Also I think You dont understand fully how assists works in BGs and You focus too much on final score rather then on footage.

No personal opinion about thread topic here. Just pointing out how funny it is You cherrypick arguments to match Your theory , turning a blind eye on reality.

Valrien · September 2018

templesus wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

You realize that liquid lightning is the reason sorc dps is picked over Templar, Dk, and Warden, correct? They have a unique synergy that allows alkosh uptime to be higher then if you do not have a sorc in your group.

This is the problem with these forums. People who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about continuously post as if they have their facts straight and make broad false claims and assumptions.

That's why 1 Sorc is meta. A few organized groups that I've seen run 1 Sorc healer, 1 Templar Healer, 8 NB DPS, 1 DK Tank, and 1 DK/Warden Off-Tank. Because since all you need is the concussion uptime and the Synergy, you don't actually need the Sorc to DPS :P

Nothing you just stated has anything to do with what he said. “Dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that.” That is the comment I was disproving, nothing to do with DPS or why 1 sorc is chosen, simply the fact he seems to think that Dk Templar and Warden have better group buffs then sorc, when in fact they don’t.

Also 1 sorc dps actually isn’t the best group comp. The best is 8 mag nb dps 1 dk tank 1 dk/Warden off tank 1 Templar healer 1 sorc healer.

The-Baconator wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

You realize that liquid lightning is the reason sorc dps is picked over Templar, Dk, and Warden, correct? They have a unique synergy that allows alkosh uptime to be higher then if you do not have a sorc in your group.

This is the problem with these forums. People who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about continuously post as if they have their facts straight and make broad false claims and assumptions.

Or perhaps the person was referencing PvP in which case I'm not sure what you could really contest from their statement.

...except that they weren’t. Scroll up.

Looks like you didn't even read my post lol...

Urvoth · September 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Posted in the other sorc thread, but make sense to post here as well...

Here's a guildmate of mine, Despotic. You may have seen his channel. He plays battlegrounds frequently and has a very high MMR. Before everyone screams his score is from stealing kills, no one in this match (except for him, meaning kills were stolen from him) has double digits in assists, meaning he stole very few kills.
The results speak for themselves.

https://youtu.be/tRn_Ki7uy8M

31/0/11....in a high MMR match with little if any kill steals.
As a sorc myself, all the whining over the class is getting embarrassing. It's like a little kid with a shiny new toy(sorc), but crying because the kid across the street (nightblade) is just a tad more shiny.

Here's my PvE geared sorc (all divines, no impen, one shield, no rune cage) in a battleground last night.
https://imgur.com/kwh4YTp

Sorcs are in a good place. Stop whining because you're not number one. It's damn embarrassing for the rest of us who still can play sorc.
Or keep stompin your feet like silly spoiled kids...whatever...

High MMR LOL. You really overestimate or dont understand how matchmaker works. Beeing ranked high in it doesnt mean that You wont get queued against noobs anymore and in this video like 3/4 of match participants are average or under avegare players. Also I think You dont understand fully how assists works in BGs and You focus too much on final score rather then on footage.

No personal opinion about thread topic here. Just pointing out how funny it is You cherrypick arguments to match Your theory , turning a blind eye on reality.

Yeah you can tell they're bad opponents just buy how often he gets hard CC'd. He's doesn't get fossalized once despite there being DKs in the game, and half the pple just stand there and let him combo on them.

Lord-Otto · September 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

*** hell the salt I can mine from this.

I assume you have never played any other classes. Because they have ALL had it worse than this. DKs past 1.6 were absolute bottom tier until about 6 months ago. NB was awful with broken cloak and old per buffed skis.
Now sorcs, who have been top since IC with a little stint in CWC (though OP rune still existed) are mid/lower mid tier and are bawling.

Welcome to the club.

Almost. IMPERIAL CITY broke DKs. The short time between Unlimited and IC was fine, just not god mode anymore.
They have slowly been recovering. Well, mDKs have. SDKs had their moment with Tremorscale, but that was it. I think giving them more mobility and slightly reducing the hard counter tools (wings, talons and fire) would be adequate. Every class HAS TO BE mobile, or you're just zerg fodder.

Vahrokh · September 2018

templesus wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

You realize that liquid lightning is the reason sorc dpsONE sorc is picked over Templar, Dk, and Warden, correct? They have a unique synergy that allows alkosh uptime to be higher then if you do not have a sorc in your group.

This is the problem with these forums. People who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about continuously post as if they have their facts straight and make broad false claims and assumptions.

Fixed, because you too don't seem to grasp what's the difference between being viable and being "1 picked" because of 1 skill you have.

Vahrokh · September 2018

Just leaving this new video. Renowed player FeaR Turbo wanted to truly see how the different classes perform with the same identical trial buffs.

Here are the results.

Magsorcs come dead last, even below mag wardens (with pet)...

As of today, if you play magsorc, you are a liability to your team. That's why all my progression teams ask me to login my less geared NB instead of my main magsorc.

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

I have to believe anyone who is a sorc complaining about quiting the class just isn't skilled at sorc. Plain and simple.
If you have skill, where's your screen shots? Where's your videos showing your skill?
Ah, but that's the thing, isn't it. If you show you're skilled at sorc, it's hard to say it's underperforming and needs buffs, isn't it? Hard to say sorc isn't good when you're showing yourself preforming well on it, right? So, enjoy that corner you've painted yourself into.

I've said enough on this topic. I'm sad and embarrassed for my fellow sorc players.

Plenty of people already do. The problem is that most of the proof most players are able to show is them 1vXing noobs.

Against a skilled player, Sorc just isn't good. Shields take full unmitigated damage, and even without crits that's a TON of damage so they're very easy to burst down.

Here's all the flaws with Sorc:
-Shields take full damage and only last 6 seconds AND are expensive. It's pretty easy to keep the pressure on a sorc

-The burst combo is pretty alright but it's so easy for other people to mess it up...and if it gets messed up you're not getting any kills with it. Then you have pretty much all the other classes who throw their DoTs and debuffs on you, spam their spammable, use their "big finisher" to seal the deal and GG.

-Lack of mobility/escape. Sorcs used to have this a la Bolt Escape, but ever since the nerf to it Sorcs can afford to use it maybe twice. And it's certainly not much of an escape when gap closer spam negates it entirely. Not many other classes have a ton of mobility, but my issue is that Sorc used to be THE mobility class and it feels like that part of our identity was stripped away.

-SUSTAIN. Probably the worst part of Sorc. They are legitimately the worst class in the game in terms fo sustain. It feels like I'm just out of MP constantly in both PvP and PvE. It's "kind of" always been this way, but the changes in MW made it more pronounced.

-No healing. Sorc pretty much relies on the restoration staff, and the heal that Sorcs most frequently use may not even always target them in Battlegrounds (and it never helps the person you healed because Healing Ward by itself does almost nothing...you need the other Sorc shields). Every class has some form of proper self healing whereas Sorcs just...don't

Overall, the absolute biggest problem I have with Sorc is that every patch they have a piece of their identity stripped away. As it is now, the class can be described as "nightblade, but worse" because that's almost what the playstyle feels like but without the sustain, mobility, escape, and burst. If I could change 3 things about Sorc, if would be these:
-Either buff shields, or add healing. I would prefer if Shields could add your full resistances or at least half of them onto the shield itself, and/or for ZOS to remove the Battle Spirit penalty on shields since they're far inferior to raw healing and raw damage is just too much for them. I would also prefer if shields lasted their original 20 seconds, or at least 10 seconds a la Empowered Ward.

-Remove the Streak nerf. This never needed to happen in the first place. Not even a little bit.

-Remove the Frags nerf. Give it back its full damage and its stun. At least people had asked for the Streak nerf. No one even asked for the Frags nerf. You just did it. This "hard-hitting abilities shouldn't stun" philosophy is negated by the fact that Dawnbreaker, Master Staff Flame Reach, Incap Strike, etc etc are still in the game. ZOS couldn't even bring themselves to remove the stun on Incap despite Wrobel's philosophy.

If those 3 major nerfs would be reverted, then at least Sorc would have a part of their identity back.

Buff shields? Just how bad are you?

Sorcs have two of the strongest heals in the game. If that ain't enough, there's an entire skill line devoted to healing and it even comes with another cancerous stackable damage shield that heals you while hiding your gameplay deficiencies just like every sorc wants and expects.

As to reverting the streak nerf, I think that's fine.

But let's be fair, Sorc doesn't need any CCs. They are actually counter to the class identity. Sorc is about stacking incredible burst damage, while defending with powerful damage shields, it is not whatsoever a class that is or should be defined by crowd control.

what are the 2 strongest heals we have? and resto obviously requires the resto staff, which is an insane gimp to be be saddled with when ever other class has class heals, nbs and dks have it as their spammable for god sakes

Twilight and Dark Conversion

If you're not slotting a Restro staff then the issue is a failure to adapt.

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ive been playing magsorc since I started playing again after one tam, the state the class is in currently is just sad. Sorcs have been made into noob and nb killers in pvp and only shine in pve when it comes to killing large amounts of trash, even then we are arguably out shined by nightblades.

Our sustain is terrible. our burst in pvp is lower and slower than nbs, predictable easily blocked and healed through. heals are sub par to every single class. execute while strong in pvp (one of the FEW things that still gives this class a heartbeat) is weaker than nb in pve by alot. light armor and shield where sorcs find their strength are less favorable to every other class in heavy armor. pve damage and lighting damage are lower than nbs by 10-15k easily. we lack the set support for our class where nbs have sets that are all but tailor made for them with nbs getting a set to utilize every patch while sorcs are still in lambris, juli, necro, mothers sorrow (ill give you siroria is a plus).

Race changed my woodelf thief blade to a highelf mnb geared it out in purple and FIRST dps test I was hitting withing 4k of my highelf magsorc in fully gold gear that I have practiced the rotation of for over a year, while trying to squeeze every last bit of dps out of it.

I really hope update 20 lets gives me a reason to go back to my favorite class

I read this as sorc is not best class in ESO but 2nd best and that is why I will stop playing it.

If the second best class ( persoally i think its dks) does NOTHING better than the first best class, why play it?

Why cry for it though, when there are easily 2-3 classes that are in a much weaker state. Sorc has never been in a bad spot. It is the only class that has never been in a bad spot. If any class deserves to be in a bad spot, then that class is Sorc, which is still the second best class for all content.

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2018

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Ive been playing magsorc since I started playing again after one tam, the state the class is in currently is just sad. Sorcs have been made into noob and nb killers in pvp and only shine in pve when it comes to killing large amounts of trash, even then we are arguably out shined by nightblades.

Our sustain is terrible. our burst in pvp is lower and slower than nbs, predictable easily blocked and healed through. heals are sub par to every single class. execute while strong in pvp (one of the FEW things that still gives this class a heartbeat) is weaker than nb in pve by alot. light armor and shield where sorcs find their strength are less favorable to every other class in heavy armor. pve damage and lighting damage are lower than nbs by 10-15k easily. we lack the set support for our class where nbs have sets that are all but tailor made for them with nbs getting a set to utilize every patch while sorcs are still in lambris, juli, necro, mothers sorrow (ill give you siroria is a plus).

Race changed my woodelf thief blade to a highelf mnb geared it out in purple and FIRST dps test I was hitting withing 4k of my highelf magsorc in fully gold gear that I have practiced the rotation of for over a year, while trying to squeeze every last bit of dps out of it.

I really hope update 20 lets gives me a reason to go back to my favorite class

I read this as sorc is not best class in ESO but 2nd best and that is why I will stop playing it.

If the second best class ( persoally i think its dks) does NOTHING better than the first best class, why play it?

Why cry for it though, when there are easily 2-3 classes that are in a much weaker state. Sorc has never been in a bad spot. It is the only class that has never been in a bad spot. If any class deserves to be in a bad spot, then that class is Sorc, which is still the second best class for all content.

->

ezio45 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I guess it’s not good enough to be #2? Y’all have to be better then NB essentially meaning have to be #1?

You know what we Templars/Dks (and decently Wardens) have been asking for the past couple of years?

To be able to just compete with Sorcs and Nightblade. Not be better. Not outshine. Not be #1. Just compete.

I’m starting to think maybe ZOS should just remove the sorc class altogether as the vocal ones on the forums have a level of entitlement that is toxic to the game.

the problem is sorcs arnt even competing with them anymore, and while dks templars and wardens have other pluses to the class, defense, heals, good self and group buff. sorcs are only relevant dps wise because they dont have any of that. meaning if I easily am doing far better on a nb theres no reason to pick a sorc over one

Because all other classes bring something to the table. Only thing that sorcs do is deal damage. But nightblades deal more damage. Sorcs are reduced to 1 spot only, which ironically enough isn't even a dd spot, to serve LL synergies.