LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Normal mode DLC is too hard for very casual players. I'm talking about 4k dps on a good day. Players that log in for a few hours a week. Players that don't follow the meta... or even use appropriate gear to their role. DPS in full heavy. Healers that spam mutagen and nothing else.

Meta isn't as defining as you think.

The NB I play with can use Warmaiden + Mother's Sorrow and still complete things like Mazz/Bloodroot HM. Both of which are harder DPS checks that count on both <not just one> DPS to do their job.

Players that play their character totally wrong <DPS in full heavy etc> should stick to NON dlc. As its obvious they haven't learned their role yet. They are probably sub 160. If you meet one of these simply do this:

Craft them a 5/5/2 set. Done. Here is an example.

New Tank Setup:
Fortified Brass - 5
Hist Bark - 5
Arena - 2

New Healer Setup:
Julianos - 5
Krag - 5
Willow Path - 2

New Stam DPS Setup:
Night Mother Gaze - 5
Hunding Rage - 5
Shacklebreaker - 2

New Mag DPS Setup:
Julianos - 5
Magnus - 5
Torug - 2

---

Is it the best? Of course not. Is it workable for non vet dlc? Of course. That is just pure crafted. If you wanted better you could easily buy overworld stuff. Swap out magnus for tinker gear and bam your set for very cheap. I think people either often do extremes:

Totally ignore anything regarding role: DPS using full heavy in dungeon based content, with zero HP.
Only try to get BIS RAID NEW BUILD: Players that just hit 160 - refuse to get a set that isn't listed as "Best" as filler slots until they get the BIS, which just makes doing everything twice as hard for them.

Are you honestly suggesting you should spend thousands of gold and spend time leaving and comming back into the dungeon to make gear for players that don’t want to improve?

I started the thread and I’d rather just add attunment or dps checks than think crafting gear for strangers would ever be the solution.

That very literally would b just handing them gear for entering the instance.

Thousands of gold might sound cool and all, but you're getting thousands of gold just by leveling (level up rewards). I got about 200k just by clearing Cadwell's silver zones (quests+delves+selling trash drops).
Alternatively, you can decon the loot and ask someone to craft the gear for you.
And again, what you are saying is borderline offensive. It's almost like you're implying that casual players are mentally impaired to the point they cannot spam one button and cant even do the quests (to earn gold).

I think your a bit confused. I never suggested any such thing. I responded to somone saying craft players gear. Which would cost the crafter thousands in mats. That’s not something you should expect of people.

Like I said, casual activities actually give you enough gold to afford the gear. And even though no one is forced to help newbies with crafting, many of us do (myself included). Implying that casual players are incapable of doing so ("4k dps in a good day", "cannot afford gear") is kinda rude for the reasons I stated above.

Again I never said that. Where did I say they can’t do 4K? I think you have me confused.

AsheronRealaidain wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Normal mode DLC is too hard for very casual players. I'm talking about 4k dps on a good day. Players that log in for a few hours a week. Players that don't follow the meta... or even use appropriate gear to their role. DPS in full heavy. Healers that spam mutagen and nothing else.

Then guess what, it's on those players to get better at that point. The game can't hold your hand at every turn, that's just crazy.

I do agree somewhat. In a perfect world, they would take the time and effort and improve. In the meantime, I no longer queue for random normal dungeons unless I have 2 or more friends in the group with me so I can avoid the issue completely. I'm not sure that it's healthy for the game or the queue system in general when you go out of your way to avoid pugs as much as possible due to concerns they may not actually complete the dungeon.

karekiz wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

You say after two runs. Your not running with pug players repeatedly and tracking them. Sounds like your talking about guild members not pugs.

My point was your not going to give random pug players new equipment. If you do then more power to you.

If wolfhunter really is easier than what’s gone before then that’s good.

So basically your the type of guy who gets in a group and leaves immediately after?

You can like....ask if they want to do the other pledge. Sometimes, they say yes. Its actually....

Faster than queing again.

You say that like it’s somehow a bad thing.

I’m a tank. I get instant pops. I run the random for the bonus, check if anyone is waiting to hand in quests then leave.

If I do pledges, then I’m there for a specific one, I’ll do it and again leave.

There’s nothing wrong with leaving after the activity you signed up for is completed.

It's one thing to make a dungeon challenging, it's another to make them lengthy. When they're filled to the absolute brim with trash like the DLC dungeons, add the uncertainty of PUG success, you're asking for a time investment (with potentially limited returns) that most adults are not prepared to give.

I guarantee that if they remove 80% of the trash in dungeons and they'll see an uptick in participation. Keep one mob before a boss to showcase mechanics.

The old dungeons like Fungal or Darkshade are probably the correct length. Even ones like Tempest and Blackhaven are bit too trashy and boring. Ideally they should have close to 0 trash. No one goes to a dungeon and thinks, more trash, fun! Just what I want to be doing with my time.

dagonbeer wrote: »

It's one thing to make a dungeon challenging, it's another to make them lengthy. When they're filled to the absolute brim with trash like the DLC dungeons, add the uncertainty of PUG success, you're asking for a time investment (with potentially limited returns) that most adults are not prepared to give.

I guarantee that if they remove 80% of the trash in dungeons and they'll see an uptick in participation. Keep one mob before a boss to showcase mechanics.

The old dungeons like Fungal or Darkshade are probably the correct length. Even ones like Tempest and Blackhaven are bit too trashy and boring. Ideally they should have close to 0 trash. No one goes to a dungeon and thinks, more trash, fun! Just what I want to be doing with my time.

So empty dungeons that just have bosses? Sounds boring. I like long dungeons, it's more of an experience. I guess it's a problem with crappy tanks who can't bunch up mobs, cause a good tank grabs them all in a pile and then it is a lot of fun to mow them down. And it increases importance of aoe, which adds variety to what builds are viable in dungeons.

PUG normals. Easy peasy.

I’m on Xbox so I got them yesterday. I successfully pug’d both of the new dungeons. Our pug groups had a couple of deaths, but we finished them both without any real issues.

i find the dungeon design is at best lackluster considering the 1500 crown pricetag. It always comes down to one hit mechanics or the lack of them in terms of easy/hard. They are worth maybe 500. Nobody is getting a good deal with these things , not even zos since they are generally unpopular.

karekiz wrote: »

I like a medium.

I played TSW which went the whole - No trash route. Dungeons were bascially done in 8 minutes-30 mins tops <depending on difficulty etc>. After awhile I did kind of miss trash pulls. However, stuff with just tons of trash for no reasion is too meh.

I like dungeon with trash + few skipable sections. Fang Lair is too much even with skips <killing trash to open doors etc>. Cradle of shadows feels about right to me. Can do slow and safe method, but if done right, faster <instead of stopping at each light to clear spiders just pulling them to next boss and mass killing reduces dark section a ton>.

[/quote]

TSW dungeons are the gold standard for me. I've never missed trash pulls, ever. The problem with TSW was that there wasn't enough dungeons, and just one raid (or 2ish, if you count Eidolon) for the longest time. But I can tolerate Darkshade/Fungal level of trash. Being able to skip stuff is ok too, ala CoA2, though I detest the two pillars/spire/thingys where you twiddle your thumbs and wait for the next wave to spawn.

I have limited play time per night, and I don't want to spend it (literally) falling asleep to trolls on Sanctum.

Darkenarlol wrote: »

less experienced? - go get your exp in easier content

unoptimised? optimize your build/gear lol

scrub? l2p and git good


there is a lot of content for bad / inexperienced players

leave dlc dungeons for it's target auditory - endgame players


btw you didn't answered to which type of pug it should be friendly

just jumped into omg-you-r-so-offensive-my-snowflakeness-hurts-now mod

I pulled you up because what you said was blatantly offensive and you continue to be. Doesn’t make me a snowflake.

I’ll gladly have exchanges with people of differing viewpoints, I do that all the time.

Your insulting people like this is some kindergarden playground. Learn some manners or don’t expect any responses ever.

Ive PuGed the Dragon Bones dungeons on Vet before. Horns of the Reach? Yeh not so much. And funny enough i actually got my first vet Mazzatun clear just the other day. I remember how painfully hard Cradle was so i just never bothered.

From what ive seen of these new ones im not gonna do them on vet. Moonhunter Keep maybe.

The dungeons aren't hard, the community is toxic.

When I say the dungeons aren't hard, I don't say that with any kind of arrogance - I play the game off and on so I am often having to catch up myself with newer things. The problem is (and this is what I mean by toxic) the community is brutal on itself. New people are brutalized, when you don't know a mechanic you are shamed or booted (usually both), patience is rare and being a condescending/toxic is the go to interaction.

Just yesterday I was in a Vet Dungeon where someone was insta booted for being at 200 CP. Selfishly I looked by it because I just wanted to get the dungeon done. Next person comes in - everything is going fine - we get to the boss and he starts to ask a question about mechanics.

Tank pulls.

He makes a mistake and we can't recover from it.

No biggie to me. I start to type out an answer to his question.

Tank pulls.

Same thing happens, instantly I see a vote kick come up with "I hope someone is your family dies of cancer". I vote to kick the guy and leave too. Such causal horribleness is grotesque.

This kind of thing I have seen far too often every time I come back to the game. There is zero compassion for newer people, no one wants to teach anyone anything along with (seemingly) no one wants to ask questions for fear of being booted or raked over the coals.

Taking the time to explain things would go a long way as a whole for every player in the game. Not watering down dungeons.

cindaxo wrote: »

I was under the impression that all dlc dungeons were not pug friendly, or at least the newest dlc dungeons. I absolutely hate dlc dungeons for more reasons than one. Non pug friendly and non casual friendly. They release new monster helms with the dlc dungeons that are basically impossible to get. I still don't have earthgore, zaan or any of the new helms. Most dps guides say to use zaan, how am I supposed to use it if I cannot get it?

I'll be waiting for hundreds of years before either of these helms are in the golden trader...

Not pug friendly in vet, normal are pugable the same way easy vet dungeons are.
Only danger is that you can get some very bad players as its just normal.

For helmet you just need to do it once or perhaps a few times to get correct weight.
Here guilds are nice.

Main problem is first clear. Has pugged multiple but that has often started on one dungeon then we find we do all 3.