Priyasekarssk wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Because @xeNNNNN Sorc wasn't enjoyable to play the previous two patches, and to be competitive you needed Reach (on the whole) and it feels stale to be pigeon holed into one way of playing for a whole class.

Reach is OP when it comes to bar space. Sure you can roll without it, I never used it, but one skill that does damage, is spammable, ticks of the destro passive and is a CC is everything in one slot.

And as for just go back to Reach sentiment the wider issue is Nightblades do reach better. Thus many Sorcs are shelved this patch.

It's not just about being strong, its also about being enjoyable but most of all choice.

I understand and I am not trying to be a *** here but....sorcs were strong for a long time in fact with all the sorcs that are in cyrodil arguably people still enjoy it. For every nightblade or DK I see on EU I come across maybe 1 warden then 5 sorcs.

The problem I see is that people dont realise that sorcs cant be on top all the time. its just not good for the game. Neither can NBs, DK,s Wardens, Templar (magplar arguably being the least bothered with by the devs).

This is why I have multiple characters and dont main nightblade. When Im not having fun on NB I switch to my Magdk and then to my sorc if the former arent fun at the time. I get it people want it to be fun but there are too many meta slaves who dont know how to make their own builds and their own fun. So when this happens they throw their hands up in the air and have a tantrum like the guy or girl I quoted.

i.e even 80% of PvPers will go to alcasts website than actually make their own builds.

Magic sorc is not viable for PVP , competing hard for bottom tier. Not on top is one thing , Not viable to play is another.

Any discussion is just waste of time. Soon get ready to see BGs and cyrodil filled only with DKs & NBs. Already many BGs are. Again I repeat magic sorc is complete garbage in PVP. A stam DK can stand on front of 20 sorcs proudly simply blocking with CC immunity up. Thats is the pathetic state for magic sorc now. No one is going to take you serious , when you say magic sorc is viable to play.

Please dont waste your time. You people come here only because , you need someone to play magic sorcs to get your easy kills. People are not fools. People always follow the meta.

1) I did not say it was viable to play, the conversation I was having with @beardimus was rather whether it was fun or not. Viability and Fun are two different things, one class could be the most viable in the game but could also be boring af.
2) for every person who says something isn't viable theres 10 more who say it is and that goes for every class in the game whether those people saying that are good or not is a matter of debate (I am not one of them).
3) As for your final statement I dont even know what you're getting at there? I need someone to play sorc to get my easy kills? What?

also "people" is a rather broad statement. it depends on the person and player.
As far as your statement of 20 sorcs vs a stam dk you're just exaggerating now. If they're tanking that many sorcs regardless of the current balance situation they would have no damage at all and frankly those are some extremely bad sorcs if they can't even kill them with "20".

Again this end of the world vibe im getting really just doesn't seem logical. Every class has had a trash tier phase.
and by the way, if you want to rage then fine do so but dont twist what im saying just so you can rage some more thats just silly. Your response generally is exactly why this community is so toxic. You can't have a civil discussion without someone ranting and raving about something. (And no toxic does not only mean insulting or trolling its much broader than that - including the inability to have a discussion without becoming aggressive or dismissive).

Beardimus wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Because @xeNNNNN Sorc wasn't enjoyable to play the previous two patches, and to be competitive you needed Reach (on the whole) and it feels stale to be pigeon holed into one way of playing for a whole class.

Reach is OP when it comes to bar space. Sure you can roll without it, I never used it, but one skill that does damage, is spammable, ticks of the destro passive and is a CC is everything in one slot.

And as for just go back to Reach sentiment the wider issue is Nightblades do reach better. Thus many Sorcs are shelved this patch.

It's not just about being strong, its also about being enjoyable but most of all choice.

I understand and I am not trying to be a *** here but....sorcs were strong for a long time in fact with all the sorcs that are in cyrodil arguably people still enjoy it. For every nightblade or DK I see on EU I come across maybe 1 warden then 5 sorcs.

The problem I see is that people dont realise that sorcs cant be on top all the time. its just not good for the game. Neither can NBs, DK,s Wardens, Templar (magplar arguably being the least bothered with by the devs).

This is why I have multiple characters and dont main nightblade. When Im not having fun on NB I switch to my Magdk and then to my sorc if the former arent fun at the time. I get it people want it to be fun but there are too many meta slaves who dont know how to make their own builds and their own fun. So when this happens they throw their hands up in the air and have a tantrum like the guy or girl I quoted.

i.e even 80% of PvPers will go to alcasts website than actually make their own builds.

Sorry for delay only just saw this thread again. Again I think its a different take on things, personally I dont think Meta lovers care - they are the ones I see switch between whatever class / set / combo is most OP in the moment.

Its the theory crafters and guys that find their own way that get hit the hardest. Thats why i'm annoyed for one, as a MagDW non Meta man, patch after patch Sorc got pushed in one direction. Fight it as well you can, eventually you realise that A you are not having fun and B arent competitive. So then you either chase the meta and switch classes (as many Sorc have this patch quietly) or stick it out.

I stuck it out through CWC and DB, and feel today (i'm xbox) im back there but worse off. Thats my complaint. but I do hear what you are saying.

Here's to having fun whatever happens.

I understand, I guess my position is coloured by the fact that I dont see any reason to try to be competitive with builds and such at the moment - The state of the game beyond class balance leaves much to be desired i.e monster sets - Earthgore...etc Area denial sets that heal everyone through nearly all damage just ruins a lot of large scale pvp and then burst procs and bugs end up ruining small scale. (desync etc). i.e too much catering to people who dont want to put in the effort to learn how to play well.

A look at the classes points something out as well.. Which is this, almost all classes have too much of something in one regard or another and not enough of other things.

Sorcerers: Access to a damage proc that hits for 5k+ on low health targets (That much damage in a passive is far too much - I would give anything to have implosion reworked im tired of dying to that disgusting proc hell i'd even be fine with ZoS giving sorcs a new sustain option in that passive) - The shields are debatable and I wont go into that now because its a much larger conversation to be honest.
Nightblades: Bonus damage from stealth something that frankly I dont know whether I like or dislike (stealth is fine, people just need to use their brains but its the damage from stealth which is the real cause of peoples frustration to be honest). I do not think nightblades need so many roots and stuns however.
Wardens: Unblock-able damage and obnoxious slows and stuns with a ton of debuffs and a suprising amount of heal potential with fairly good sustain. However I think wardens have the issue of having too much damage in one or two abilities rather than it being spread out.
Templar: BoL is life and remembrance mitigates tons of damage (I hate remembrance paired with earthgore simply because it gives zerglings a get out of jail free card essentially). 8/10 times heal debuffs mean nothing to templars.
Dragonknight: Can be ridiculously tanky but still dish out a great deal of damage while healing well to and sustaining resources depending on how they are built. To be fair to DKs I feel like their position is more that their kit was poorly thought out in design meaning they get a great draw off elemental damage as its a primary damage source in the game while essentially intended to be tanks.

Then theres the organised zergs which I wont get into here. All of that on top of the proc sets...the bugs... the lag...then finally class balance is why this game just isn't competitive in PvP and its why I just stopped caring about such things. With the exception of competitive organised groups which is just essentially who can shout "run up the stairs" the clearest and loudest.

My general point is I feel like people care way too much about being competitive right now or having a set up that beats everyone, obviously its limited based on class balance but theres always another way to play even if its not the most viable option you understand this better than most from what I can tell - However I dont think many think like you and me etc or not enough at least so I feel like a majority of people who are stewing with "anger" right now honestly haven't tried everything - things we've both probably tried a lot more people would not of.

I just wish people would start trying more things out instead of looking for that insta 1 shot build that everyone wants. Im not suggesting people in this thread haven't but this forum is a small percentage of the community.