What CC for Sorcs now?

frostz417

If only the brought back frag cc

Aedaryl

Reverb wrote: »

Rune Cage got a relatively minor adjustment after months of players complaining that it was too strong for something uncounterable. Templar cc got completely removed after absolutely no one complaining about it, and was left with no class cc or roots. Mag Warden had their class cc completely removed. It's getting tiresome to hear people act like you've been victimized by keeping one of the best cc skills in the game.

A relatively minor adjustment that's just 5 nerfs in a raw making the ability far more useless than the time where no one played it ?

You mean the "one of the best cc skills in the game" everyone deslotted for a fire staff skill ?

"I have a cancer" "Lucky, I have leucemia, stop complaning, it's not that bad"

Feanor

Reverb wrote: »

Rune Cage got a relatively minor adjustment after months of players complaining that it was too strong for something uncounterable. Templar cc got completely removed after absolutely no one complaining about it, and was left with no class cc or roots. Mag Warden had their class cc completely removed. It's getting tiresome to hear people act like you've been victimized by keeping one of the best cc skills in the game.

Relatively minor? I see.

- First off, decreased damage by 20%
- Damage only applies if stun lasts the full duration
- Reduced duration from 5 seconds to 3.5
- Made it dodgeable

The only things not nerfed are the range and being unblockable still. If that's "relatively minor", I don't want to see what a "real" nerf is.

moosegod

This rune cage change needed to happen, the skill was overperforming and the results were obvious. Go to any battelground in the last few weeks and its usually 50% sorcs. Even the stam sorcs are using rune cage. The stun was far too long for the cost and power of the skill. 5 second, unblockable, undodgeable stun with good damage. You have to be kidding yourself to not realize how strong rune cage was. ZOS has said themselves that a CC should either be short and powerful or long and weaker, rune cage was long and powerful, they had to change it.

I play magsorc too and I stopped because it was too easy, you can make people explode and still pop 20k+ shields because your damage and shield abilities scale off the same stat, even the light attacks scale off mag better now. The class is not dead all of a sudden after this change. 2 seconds is plenty of time for a good player to get some good damage in and it still combos with meteor+fury. I'd agree that now that its 2 second stun maybe they could try making it undodgeable again but like I said before, you'd be a fool to not admit rune cage was overperforming and needed to be tweaked.

Galarthor

The_Outsider wrote: »

wozborne wrote: »

So, now that Wolfhunter is out what are you PCsorcs using as a CC now? Back to clench? Sticking with a gutted Rune Cage? Streak?

I haven't played mine yet, but I plan on sticking with RC. My prediction is that it won't be as bad as it seems. Just takes some intentionality to cast it as a dodge roll is finishing up so it lands as they come out of that brief immunity period after the animation.

That doesn't really work due to the delay of the ability and in laggy situations it is outright impossible b/c they can dodge when the animation is hitting them and still evade it.

LegendaryMage

Roll a magblade. Sorc is a joke.

Galarthor

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Stun them with the scamp pet? Difficult because you have a 6s delay, pet can wander off or die.

Stun them with Reach? Dodgeable, blockable, reflectable and short stun duration. I also prefer Crushing Shock as spammable because you keep control over when the CC is applied.

Stun them with Streak? Only works in melee range and its blockable. Not bad as backup stun for dodge rollers.

Yeah, probably sticking to Rune Cage. At least is still works with meteor. If they dodge the meteor it knocks them down, if they block Rune Cage it stuns them.

I agree with you for the most part.

However, streak is way too clunky and with the speed at which stambuilds are moving around (and the lag) there is a pretty high chance that you will miss. Also even if you succeed you will be facing away from the opponent and the time it takes the "self-stun" of streak to wear off, and for you to turn around and reacquire the target gives said target time to break your CC. So you essentially gained nothing, since the primary purpose of a CC is to gain a gloabla cooldown in which you can deal damage while your opponent cannot defend or deal damage themselves.

As for Rune Cage, due to the delay on that ability and the extended dodge protection which exceeds the animation it is (almost) impossible to stun them after the dodge immunity wears off and the meteor hits (and gets blocked).

You literally have no way of using any crowed control effect on a stam build these days. Forward Momentum makes them permanently immune to slows and roots. And dodge roll (and for many parts also block) makes them immunue to your stuns. But according to Class Rep notes, NBs need more buffs ... GG ZOS.

Maulkin

All of this mess because Wrobel started his ideological campaign that damage skills should not CC without bothering to look at the whole package of the classes and whether that was warranted.

Nerfed Frags, nerfed Deep Fissure and has been effing up the balance since trying to justify the irrational decision to begin with. Guess what both classes are using now for CC. Master Reach, which is both damage and a CC skill. Good job Wrobel, mission definitely a success.

Both nerfs need to be reverted and he should ideally increase the Streak stun from 1.5 to 2 seconds to make it more viable to land an attack afterwards. He can then be done with this abomination of a skill that is Rune Cage completely and hopefully give Sorcs a single target DoT that they've been missing since day 1.

Chilly-McFreeze

moosegod wrote: »

Even the stam sorcs are using rune cage.

@moosegod
Not arguing about the rest of your opinion but what the hell is this? Like "Oh no! Stam Sorcs dare to use one of their class skills!"? Sorry, but what are they supposed to use? They already feel like a walking weapon line. Tze, some people...

Biro123

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

moosegod wrote: »

Even the stam sorcs are using rune cage.

@moosegod
Not arguing about the rest of your opinion but what the hell is this? Like "Oh no! Stam Sorcs dare to use one of their class skills!"? Sorry, but what are they supposed to use? They already feel like a walking weapon line. Tze, some people...

Haha - next thing, I'll be using fear on my stamblade.. Oh wait!!

dassneakereb17_ESO

Aedaryl wrote: »

dassneakereb17_ESO wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

dassneakereb17_ESO wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

I uninstalled the game even with ESO+ subscription for 5 months. Its garbage to play. Not planning to come back. Patiently waiting for other big game releases. My first and last of game of MMO type. MMOs class balancing is *** . ESO taken to ridiculous levels. RIP ESO.

FYI. ZOs never reverted a change after its goes live.

you were playing most op class with broken spell and now you are sad because class became more balanced, why are you complaining about balance in mmo then?

When you will have the knowedge to understand this game come back.

You can expose yourself by telling me why magsorc is balanced. I'm waiting.

don't wait, don't cry,
git gud or... quit

You can't tell me why because you know I'm right, so bad for you

you did not make any statement to be right or wrong, stop wasting time on forums and get better at game, should not be very hard since pvp skill cap in eso is below ground

Xvorg

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

wozborne wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

I uninstalled the game even with ESO+ subscription for 5 months. Its garbage to play. Not planning to come back. Patiently waiting for other big game releases. My first and last of game of MMO type. MMOs class balancing is *** . ESO taken to ridiculous levels. RIP.

FYI. ZOs never reverted a change after its goes live.

That doesn’t really answer my question, but good luck out there

Answer is none of them works. Rune cage gives ridiculous amount of time to dodge with a huge telegraph. Clench not worth without master staff. Even then Clench is not a CC. Its barely 1.5 seconds by simply knocking back , not stun. So both are worthless.

Hope its answer your question.
Some tried frost staff with shock enchant , and says its playable, but not to acceptable level. I haven't tried it. You can worth to try it. Answer comes from a dependable person.

Shock clench it's a great skill, with a more unpredictable path and a stun.

Minalan

Xvorg wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

wozborne wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

I uninstalled the game even with ESO+ subscription for 5 months. Its garbage to play. Not planning to come back. Patiently waiting for other big game releases. My first and last of game of MMO type. MMOs class balancing is *** . ESO taken to ridiculous levels. RIP.

FYI. ZOs never reverted a change after its goes live.

That doesn’t really answer my question, but good luck out there

Answer is none of them works. Rune cage gives ridiculous amount of time to dodge with a huge telegraph. Clench not worth without master staff. Even then Clench is not a CC. Its barely 1.5 seconds by simply knocking back , not stun. So both are worthless.

Hope its answer your question.
Some tried frost staff with shock enchant , and says its playable, but not to acceptable level. I haven't tried it. You can worth to try it. Answer comes from a dependable person.

Shock clench it's a great skill, with a more unpredictable path and a stun.

You lose 8% single target damage for using lightning Destro too. I don’t consider that viable.

Ender1310

So your CC can be avoided. And this makes you what now? Like everyone else with the exception that you have the strongest damage shield in the game and the easiest delayed burst to set up and great mobility. And your mad why?

Ender1310

Why do you think it was nerfed? Why did you think it was fair to press one button and stop people from 40 feet away with zero chance to avoid it? You guys thought you were so leet before show us how good you are without your crutch.

kadar

Ender1310 wrote: »

Why did you think it was fair to press one button and stop people from 40 feet away with zero chance to avoid it?

Fossilize and Fear had both counter-play and risk for proper use, RC did not. I understand being bummed when your class is nerfed. I don't understand how some thought old RC was ok.

Chilly-McFreeze

Ender1310 wrote: »

So your CC can be avoided. And this makes you what now? Like everyone else with the exception that you have the strongest damage shield in the game and the easiest delayed burst to set up and great mobility. And your mad why?

The zero counterplay of cage was over the top, I think everyone interested in balance can agree to that. But on that bolded part, yes it's easy to set up, but it's nowhere as easy to actually get it through. Pulse/ Clench/ Frags/ Wrath are dodgeable. Pulse, Clench, Frags, Meteor are blockable. Leaves them with only curse being unavoidable and that alone won't proc Wrath (if it landed).

And that's why Rune Cage is an issue that can't be solved satisfyingly. Either it's unbalanced for the opponent or Sorcs easily struggle against anyone who knows when to block or dodge, rendering them as effectiv against noobs.

Honestly, they should scrap the whole idea of magsorcs and build them anew.


However, I can't agree on that mobility part. Streak has it's shortcommings (+ can be outrun by major expedition & sprint and is useless against anyone with a gap closer), magsorcs have no snare removal (since they are forced to backbar resto instead of 2h) and they are somewhat gimped by running swift instead of arcane since their main defense soley scales on max mag.

oxygen_thief

moosegod wrote: »

I play magsorc too and I stopped because it was too easy, you can make people explode and still pop 20k+ shields because your damage and shield abilities scale off the same stat, even the light attacks scale off mag better now. The class is not dead all of a sudden after this change. 2 seconds is plenty of time for a good player to get some good damage in and it still combos with meteor+fury. I'd agree that now that its 2 second stun maybe they could try making it undodgeable again but like I said before, you'd be a fool to not admit rune cage was overperforming and needed to be tweaked.

do you have 20k shield in bgs? i dont believe you can do meteor combo easily on some decent stam player in 1x1 or small scale scenario. ive been using rc since clockwork nobody has called it op all this time as i know. its about a year now right? master's staff is bad option for cc since summerset, shields are tiny and unreliable, crystall is nerfed and our defensive runaway streak is too expensive and worthless with all this insane swift runners. sorc is pretty bad for now.

Tzayad

Feanor wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Rune Cage got a relatively minor adjustment after months of players complaining that it was too strong for something uncounterable. Templar cc got completely removed after absolutely no one complaining about it, and was left with no class cc or roots. Mag Warden had their class cc completely removed. It's getting tiresome to hear people act like you've been victimized by keeping one of the best cc skills in the game.

Relatively minor? I see.

- First off, decreased damage by 20%
- Damage only applies if stun lasts the full duration
- Reduced duration from 5 seconds to 3.5
- Made it dodgeable

The only things not nerfed are the range and being unblockable still. If that's "relatively minor", I don't want to see what a "real" nerf is.

It's 2 seconds of stun as of today

Urvoth

frostz417 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sorcs finally don’t get an indirect buff and finally get nerfed and all the cry baby sorc mains act like it’s the end of the world. Now y’all know how Templars felt in morrowind/homestead and how DK’s felt in dragonbones and imperial city patches. Sorcs needed a nerf. Finally have one. Time to get good at a different class that isn’t thumbless. Hopefully nightblades will be getting nerfed next.

We never held a funeral for our character like a popular streamer did for his templar so kindy get out unless you have something constructive to say. Thanks.

All the the “MUH RUNE CAGE MUH CC” threads lack any construction and is just sorc mains comparing about them losing their “I win buttons” clench isn’t even that bad of a cc like everyone assumes it is. Many classes use it and it works well. Just because it has counter play doesn’t mean it’s trash. Just means you actually need to use skill in your combos instead of using a cheesy unavoidable no skill rune cage wombo combo. Time to get guud.

I love using a CC that is completely countered by DKs and dodge spamming NBs. Especially considering half the players in BGs are one of those two classes.

NyassaV

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm seriously considering that set Hide of Morihaus that stuns when you roll through somebody, LOL.

That set is super fun FYI... Or just streak through people?

pieratsos

So ZOS went out of their normal routine to make a balance change in an incremental patch instead of a major update and their change was to nerf an ability that they nerfed 4 times in the last month. Lmao. That has to be a contender for the most "lmao change" in the history of the game.

Yubarius

wozborne wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Flame reach

The_Outsider wrote: »

wozborne wrote: »

So, now that Wolfhunter is out what are you PCsorcs using as a CC now? Back to clench? Sticking with a gutted Rune Cage? Streak?

I haven't played mine yet, but I plan on sticking with RC. My prediction is that it won't be as bad as it seems. Just takes some intentionality to cast it as a dodge roll is finishing up so it lands as they come out of that brief immunity period after the animation.

Yep that’s how any ranged CC should work.

So I guess we’re back to “get a Master Destro or go f yourself” again huh

Welcome as you get a glimpse into the life of magden, enjoy your stay

usmguy1234

Yubarius wrote: »

wozborne wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Flame reach

The_Outsider wrote: »

wozborne wrote: »

So, now that Wolfhunter is out what are you PCsorcs using as a CC now? Back to clench? Sticking with a gutted Rune Cage? Streak?

I haven't played mine yet, but I plan on sticking with RC. My prediction is that it won't be as bad as it seems. Just takes some intentionality to cast it as a dodge roll is finishing up so it lands as they come out of that brief immunity period after the animation.

Yep that’s how any ranged CC should work.

So I guess we’re back to “get a Master Destro or go f yourself” again huh

Welcome as you get a glimpse into the life of magden, enjoy your stay

It's not like sorcs haven't been around 3 years longer than wardens and haven't received many more nerfs in those years. Matter of fact we've been nerfed far more than we've ever been buffed so there's that. Honestly if anyone wants a class that gets more buffs than nerfs, roll a nightblade.

Barbaran

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm seriously considering that set Hide of Morihaus that stuns when you roll through somebody, LOL.

Its heavy armor. Are you really serious ? Just quit playing PVP for sometime or play with alts or quit altogether . I dont think its playable. ZOs promised future nerfs for sorc. Think about it. I decided to quit the game with ESO+ with 5 months active subscription mainly because of it. Reroll NB or DK . Just shelve sorc and take it back if you think it can be viable some day.

You quit the game because they gave the CC some counterplay? Lol wow you must be really bad.
Sorc still hits like a truck and can shield stack. Now you just have to time your CC properly like every other class in the game has too.

Feanor

Barbaran wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I'm seriously considering that set Hide of Morihaus that stuns when you roll through somebody, LOL.

Its heavy armor. Are you really serious ? Just quit playing PVP for sometime or play with alts or quit altogether . I dont think its playable. ZOs promised future nerfs for sorc. Think about it. I decided to quit the game with ESO+ with 5 months active subscription mainly because of it. Reroll NB or DK . Just shelve sorc and take it back if you think it can be viable some day.

You quit the game because they gave the CC some counterplay? Lol wow you must be really bad.
Sorc still hits like a truck and can shield stack. Now you just have to time your CC properly like every other class in the game has too.

It’s really easy to avoid now even point blank Fossilize range. The only ones still having problems are mag chars ironically.

Strider__Roshin

I've always played my sorc very aggressive so streak was always my go to. I've actually never tried the Master's destro build. I might though just for fun. It would synergize well with my Dunmer.

antihero727

Minalan wrote: »

They’ll fix the Sorc class in a month or so, be patient. If you look at the rep discussions it should give some insight into what they’re discussing. Bound armor buffs. Instant proc on crystal blast. Fixing streak terrain issues. Magicka cost on crystal frags. It’s all good stuff.

See you all on the next PTS drop! Until then it’s time for a break.

Minalan wrote: »

They’ll fix the Sorc class in a month or so, be patient. If you look at the rep discussions it should give some insight into what they’re discussing. Bound armor buffs. Instant proc on crystal blast. Fixing streak terrain issues. Magicka cost on crystal frags. It’s all good stuff.

See you all on the next PTS drop! Until then it’s time for a break.

By “fix” are you really saying nerf hard and deep again and again? Because as a sorc main since prelaunch I have seen nothing but nerfs for so long I don’t remember what a buff looks like anymore. Please when someone sees a sorc buff send sweaters to Hades.

IZZEFlameLash

Give Frag its stun back. I mean, Rune Cage is still useable on non-NB targets somewhat but, Frag would be much more deadly. But I think it is less likely because they are set on 'we want to move away from strong damage on cc'

Strider__Roshin

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Give Frag its stun back. I mean, Rune Cage is still useable on non-NB targets somewhat but, Frag would be much more deadly. But I think it is less likely because they are set on 'we want to move away from strong damage on cc'

You act like Nightblades exist in a state of perpetual dodge rolling. I don't know why magsorcs even whine about stamblades. Their mines make them a hard counter to them. It's like a magDK whining about magblades.