Cr4p0w3 wrote: »

I noticed this too, then I look up on forums and discovered that Zos "simplified" the animation and effects of other players skills in your screen making totaly visible only those skills that have sinergy.

peacenote wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Azuramoonstar wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

RodneyRegis wrote: »

I hate fake tanks as much as the next player (especially those who won't stand still!) Bit surely the point is that without them the queue for DD would be interminably longer? The cause needs fixing, not the symptom. Either the system needs an overhaul, or there needs to be a much greater incentive for people to level and play proper tanks.

So this. The cause needs fixing.

To get short queue times you need 25% tanks, 25% healers and 50% dps queuing. The queues are slow because there is a greater than 50% of players selecting the DPS role.

Why? I can see two main problems. 3/5 of classes are not desired/viable/whatever in the tank role in end game. This scales down to people assuming their 'not a DK/warden' tank is not viable/good in PUGS or they feel they may want to end game one day, so don't play tank anymore. They change role to one their class is good with as no one really wants to relearn all their motifs/recipes etc. This then compounds the problem by overloading the DPS queue, (and healer but to a lesser degree.) Impact of this could be minimised if motifs/recipes/lorebooks were account wide, but it should be fixed properly by making all roles equally viable/desired in end game.

Issue 2, fun. The standard perma-block thing is boring as... Some classes can do it, some can't. There is a huge difference here because it can be looked at as training wheels. Also being told what to wear is not fun, nor is having to try and see when you need to block among a huge amount of explosions on screen. Being able to turn off spell effects would go a long way here, and to improve performance. An ESO 'stutter' from your computer can cause death, easily. It's the only game like it i've played for a long time

And in part, you just don't know when ZoS are going to turn round and literally strip your class from a role. Morrowind removed NB/Templar tanks from ESO. NB tank was the most fun this game has seen, I feel sorry for anyone who never had the chance to play one. My only niggle with this, is PTS warned this would happen, and was ignored. A year later and you still don't see non-DK/Warden tanks in finder. Vet finder is a really good way to see what class/role combos are viable/good/fun and what isn't. I don't know why ZoS don't use completion stats of vet DLC to see what classes are lacking in what roles.

ff14 has dedicated tanks.. still most people play dps. there is nothing a dev can do to fix a player problem.

Cool then it’s literary a completely unsolvable problem in your opinion. You aren’t going to change the entire online gamer population. If there was actually any incentive to tank, instead of active disincentives via absolute crap solo play, then there would be more players. Right now it’s not fun, it’s highly limited since Morrowind game gutting (DK/Warden or get out), and they’re not needed for anything but trials and vet content, and even then not all vet content needs them.

“Fake tanks” aka dps with a taunt being effective in lots of content in ESO actually makes it more fun to play in the role. Good players don’t need to sacrifice all their damage to do well controlling enemies

ff14 tried to incentives people to play tank by adding the "in need" bonus which pays people with extra exp, money to tank. raising the enmity of skills making almost no need to taunt enemies, raising dps of tanks.

still didn't work on increasing players playing tank. we are talking about a role that only 10% of mmo players play since the dawn of MMO. No game has made people play tank.

ff14 has warrior a high dps tank, with lil need to use taunting to maintain aggro. still tanks are in low supply.

this is a player problem not a game problem. You can make the highest dps tank in any game, with super easy taunting and still no one will play it. It isn't about if a job can dps or not. It is about the responsibility and people blaming tanks for stuff going wrong.

I've played many mmo, dcuo, ff11 ff14 Aion terra to name a few and all have this problem. no fix each game has done, worked out.

even the director/producer of ff14 realized that no amount of intensives or adding jobs will get ppl to play tank.

Good discussion. Quotes in spoiler.

1) There is a portion of players who will not play tanks (or healers) because they don't want the expectation of leading/being blamed. I avoiding tanking for a long time because I have a bad sense of direction and don't want to deal with people following me off a cliff.

For those of you in that boat, I encourage you to try. Playing different roles is fun. The ESO community seems better than most at listening to an experienced DPS or understanding that a certain role isn't always "lead" in a dungeon.

2) The issue of "absolute crap solo play".... 1000% true. My tank, which I actually love playing when I TANK, sucks to go through stories, quests, getting skill points... everything. Dual specs would go a long way with this. If not in the #1 category (which I no longer am but was for a long time), the rest of us could tank a lot more if the toon could do more than one thing. I'd tank on my main and switch back to whatever when I felt like it. But I can't even really PRACTICE being a tank until I hit max level because I can't get through content by myself on my own if I take that route. My tank was leveled in Skyreach.

There are definitely scenarios where I'd tank if my "main" could do it. I don't want to tank on my alt if I am achievement hunting. But dual specs would fix that too.

3) Dealing with this by cracking down on who can queue for what, based on specs, won't work. The community is smarter than this, and the difference between normal and vet dungeons, the difference between new and old dungeons... it will ruin people's fun. I don't think it's the answer. I can solo or duo the basic vet dungeons and it would NOT be fun if I could no longer be let in or roles were strictly enforced.

4) Efforts by ZOS to ensure all roles can tank (preferably, in my personal opinion, with class-specific abilities and not generic ones) combined with #2 would get us close to the maximum amount of tanks in the community that are possible. We will never have as many tanks as we would DPS, but I think there are ways to get us as closer.