Shields Do Not Make Healers Useless and Why They Should Not Be Nerfed

AlienatedGoat · August 2018

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

To me the difference being magic character and stamina characters are the shields. Magic gets shields that can stop the damage thus less heals and stamina eats the damage and has to use vigor to stay alive. To me shields are too much compared to stamina players who have no shield.

Generally when I play a magic character in groups content (outside of HM and trials) I don't need heals because of the shield and when I play stamina I need some heals form the healer because vigor is like 10k over 5 seconds and shields are harness and ward are 10k with the press of a button.

Shields are most definitely NOT the only difference between stam and mag. Stam always has higher damage output than mag, by a large margin.

You play stam you get reduced survival but increased damage. You play mag you get more survival but less damage. That's the tradeoff.

LadyLethalla · August 2018

I've completed VMA on a pet sorc around 2 dozen times, using Harness. I also have a non-pet sorc with no shield and only Power Surge ready to go into VMA but I'm too scared to at this point. If shields are nerfed it's more probable that I'll never set foot in VMA again.

Varana · August 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

I know this might sound crazy, but ZOS needs to revisit their old content.

That is not crazy, that's exactly what needs to happen.

Crazy is: Trying to make characters with CP780 doing Banished Cells (that was designed for basically a completely different game) need a healer by changing core mechanics. That's just ridiculous.
At this point, I think giving the base game a pass might be more rewarding and less overall work than changing and re-balancing individual abilities.

efster · August 2018

If y'all want to blame something for the current "I'm a strong DPS who don't need to healer" mentality, blame veteran Maelstrom Arena. Before it got released, most DPS didn't bother slotting shields and expected healers to mitigate and heal all damage.

Currently, the endgame player population is heavy oh self-sufficient DPS who rely on healers mostly for DPS buffs and sustain, with intense healing being only needed for the most difficult content in the game - vDLC and trial hardmodes, to name a couple.

So how about a slight debuff for dungeons (not trials), like an evil version of Battle Spirit? Getting into combat in a dungeon could put an small but notable Oblivion DoT on players who aren't standing in AOE heals.

Hotdog_23 · August 2018

Phage wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

To me the difference being magic character and stamina characters are the shields. Magic gets shields that can stop the damage thus less heals and stamina eats the damage and has to use vigor to stay alive. To me shields are too much compared to stamina players who have no shield.

Generally when I play a magic character in groups content (outside of HM and trials) I don't need heals because of the shield and when I play stamina I need some heals form the healer because vigor is like 10k over 5 seconds and shields are harness and ward are 10k with the press of a button.

Shields are most definitely NOT the only difference between stam and mag. Stam always has higher damage output than mag, by a large margin.

You play stam you get reduced survival but increased damage. You play mag you get more survival but less damage. That's the tradeoff.

I concede your point as true right now for those that can get top tier dps from a stamina characters, but not everyone can. But I don’t think stamina has not always been the tops for dps and mag always had a shield. I might be wrong and not remembering correctly. If so my bad.

Anyway this thread is about healing and shields. I do think shields do negate some needs for healing right now.

Mureel · August 2018

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

One thing from the newest Class Rep notes that has been really bothering me. The fact that some people think that shields make healers seem useless. That is FAR from the truth.

I assume this is based on pve, where magicka dps are required to use shields to negate damage. Just because magicka dps can survive various mechanics doesn't make the shields too strong. They still heavily rely healers to keep them up in many situations. All trials have mechanics where everyone, not just the magicka dps, have to stay by the healers to stay alive. On another note, I have been told by healers that they appreciate magicka dps being proactive about their shields, as it eases the workload on them. There are too many points where they have to focus their heals in certain parts of the trial or on certain people. Shields help keep the magicka dps from dying all the time. Not to mention the many one-shot mechanics soft light armor dps cannot survive without shields. Take vAS for example. A lot of mechanics there hit hard. They can't be all avoided. Lothis's poison conal, Lightning, Gust of Steam, you name it. Magicka dps there need their shields to stay alive. Healers can't be up in their case when they have to kite Felms or heal the main tank constantly getting b*tch-slapped by Olms.

Also progression groups and people learning trials and how to survive the mechanics better. A lot of them use shields to keep them up while learning to get better at the mechanics. Only top-tier, experienced dps can survive the mechanics without glancing at their shield. If they even have one slotted.

Shields are also a major part in pvp and solo play. Many magicka players in pvp use shields to keep them from dying all the time. It offers damage mitigation without having to rely on heavy armor or impen. For solo play, overland stuff and especially veteran Maelstrom Arena, shields are extremely important. Someone on a magicka builds and is running vMA needs shields to avoid getting dunked by mechanics that would nuke them in seconds.

Healers are still needed in trials and stuff. There is no getting around that healers are important. But nerfing shields won't make their jobs any easier or more rewarding. DPS would be dying more to mechanics they could survive, progression groups would have hell getting past mechanics. and pvp and solo players would suffer.

DO NOT TOUCH SHIELDS.

I know right? Healers moot because of shields legit said No One Ever!

Mureel · August 2018

Phage wrote: »

Everyone who says shields make healers obsolete should try running vet DLC trials with no healers.

I guarantee that they'll eat their words.

Never seen anyone say that!

Mureel · August 2018

Fiktius wrote: »

Please, pretty please, do not give a death sentence to PvP healers because PvE healers feels themselves useless...

Please don't talk a bunch of BS as though any PVE healer said this EVER.

I challenge any and all to show me one post other than the class rep notes where anyone said healer being classed out of DLC HM *ever* said it had anything to do with shields.

It never did and it never has!

huschdeguddzje · August 2018

Maybe fine tune shields a little bit for pvp, I recently started playing magsorc in bg and boy does it get ridiculous.

FakeFox · August 2018

As someone who plays as a healer for around four years now, I absolutely don't get why healers should feel unimportant or weak. The only thing I understand is that the strength of defile in PvP makes it very hard for healers. But especially in PvE the impact of healers on group performance is tremendous. The Healers doing their job well gains a trial group more DPS then any single DD ever could.
DDs having their own defences does absolutely not undermine my role as a healer. In fact it even helps me by freeing up time I can use for doing other things. There really is nothing worse then not being able to properly play my role because DDs performing jobs outside the group are not using their own defences.
It also enables healers to perform special roles like vAS or vCR kiter, which are a lot of fun in my opinion.

Fiktius · August 2018

Mureel wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Please, pretty please, do not give a death sentence to PvP healers because PvE healers feels themselves useless...

Please don't talk a bunch of BS as though any PVE healer said this EVER.

I challenge any and all to show me one post other than the class rep notes where anyone said healer being classed out of DLC HM *ever* said it had anything to do with shields.

It never did and it never has!

I find it interesting that this discussion is even happening and there was even a need to create a thread like this.
We both know that nerfing shields got an impact in PvE and PvP and I only question those who were complaining about the issue and here I wonder: did they even think what does nerfing shields mean for fellow PvP healers? They are most targeted people in a group fight and they will suffer if such shield nerf will be implemented, just because some PvE healers might feel unwanted currently.
And no, don't get me wrong. I'm not pointing fingers to anyone here. But here is the thing:
Class representatives are collecting feedback and they got their sources and I don't think it's coincidence that shield nerf question popped up at class rep notes.

However since thread like this exists, I wrote my previous comment to remind that shield nerf got a significant impact on both end game contents and they both should kept in mind.

MLGProPlayer · August 2018

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

To me the difference being magic character and stamina characters are the shields. Magic gets shields that can stop the damage thus less heals and stamina eats the damage and has to use vigor to stay alive. To me shields are too much compared to stamina players who have no shield.

Generally when I play a magic character in groups content (outside of HM and trials) I don't need heals because of the shield and when I play stamina I need some heals form the healer because vigor is like 10k over 5 seconds and shields are harness and ward are 10k with the press of a button.

- Stamina characters can block damage.
- Stamina characters can dodge damage.
- Stamina characters have evasion.

- Magicka characters only have shields.

Yes, shields are the best damage mitigation method, but without them, magicka characters have exactly zero ways of mitigating damage.

Varana · August 2018

As far as I understand the Class Rep notes, no one ever brought this topic up except ZOS themselves.
Not the class reps, not the community (be it DD or healers in either PVE or PVP).

So instead of blaming whatever group you don't happen to belong to, this should be about arguments that can be voiced by the class reps against that idea by ZOS.

Luckylancer · August 2018

Hey people, nerfing dmg shield is not removing them from the game.... Mag chracters wont be 1 shotted, there will be shields after a nerf. Nerfed shelds will keep 1 Shots away but do it barely if they implent it correctly.

Only problem i see is PvP will be affected.

Mephisto939 · August 2018

This thread is like a Sorc salt mine. Let's be honest...Shields have always been OP. Sorcs have always been OP because of shields. Shield stacking has always been a problem. Balancing shields is long overdue,

Numerikuu · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

As your class representative, I am listening to the concerns that present themselves in this thread.

So the issue is actually pve. For various reasons a strong subset of healers have felt they aren't needed in content. Then even then players themselves don't find themselves needing healers. Sure the status quo still has healers participating in content, but number expressed concern in game , in discord and in forums and they aren't feeling needed for content.

Such statements are

"best score runs are without a healer in vDSA"
" I have to ask people to take as a healer for pledges"
" I feel my healers are secondary not primary"
" What do I need combat prayer with all nightblades"

Is changing shields the right call? That is for combat team to decide. My personal thoughts is issue will take time to resolve and there are many active healing play styles to account for in such changes. I think it's best to discuss why healers aren't needed so different changes might come about that is more satisfactory for solution for everyone. But my apologizes for the worries the players feel about "potential changes". We will do our best to convey such concerns as your class representatives.

a strong subset of healers have felt they aren't needed in content

Care to elaborate a little? Are these healers part of a pre-made group of friends who have been running together for a long time? Do they coordinate via VoIP? What CP levels are they and their group? What content is it that they don't feel needed in? How many times already have they done said content? And so on. There are many factors at play here.

"best score runs are without a healer in vDSA"

"best score run" would mean its a group who have done vDSA 5769878934564367 times and know it in and out. Of course they'd get the best score run without a healer. That has absolutely nothing to do with healers. If you do anything enough times to know it in and out of course it will become easy. The fault lies with the level and mechanic design of that place, not with the class.

" I have to ask people to take as a healer for pledges"

So, once again, this sounds like the healer is a part of a dungeon/trial guild of people/friends that have run the content 5489375938475 times, and know said content inside and out. Same thing once again. The problem lies with the content and mechanic design. If everything can be bulldozed through with sheer dps, that's not the healers fault.

" I feel my healers are secondary not primary"

And once again, for the same reasons as above.

" What do I need combat prayer with all nightblades"

Well... that frees up a skill slot for you then if your premade group is all nightblades. Throw in a dps skill and dps with them or something? Maybe some other debuff skill? /shrug

Is changing shields the right call?

No.

I think it's best to discuss why healers aren't needed so different changes might come about that is more satisfactory for solution for everyone

Agreed. However skill/class balance isn't the only thing that need to be looked at. The CP system desperately needs to be looked at, along with level/mechanic design. Older content also desperately needs an overhaul.

In the end however it's important to remember that not everyone who plays this game runs in guilds or groups of friends/players who have run the same content countless times. Changes like these need to be thought through thoroughly. Throwing in a blind nerf or 'fix' in the hopes it will do something to improve things for the minority, who have done said content 593475983475 times, will only negatively affect other areas of the game along with those who play differently, or haven't done said content 593475983475 times.

Mephisto939 · August 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

To me the difference being magic character and stamina characters are the shields. Magic gets shields that can stop the damage thus less heals and stamina eats the damage and has to use vigor to stay alive. To me shields are too much compared to stamina players who have no shield.

Generally when I play a magic character in groups content (outside of HM and trials) I don't need heals because of the shield and when I play stamina I need some heals form the healer because vigor is like 10k over 5 seconds and shields are harness and ward are 10k with the press of a button.

- Stamina characters can block damage.
- Stamina characters can dodge damage.
- Stamina characters have evasion.

- Magicka characters only have shields.

Yes, shields are the best damage mitigation method, but without them, magicka characters have exactly zero ways of mitigating damage.

Wut? Since when can only stamina characters block and roll dodge? Maybe if everyone wasn't trying to build meta-Sorc glass canons this wouldn't be an issue. You don't need to dump all 60 pts into magicka, and the green tree has reduce cost for tumble and blocking.

Mephisto939 · August 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

As your class representative, I am listening to the concerns that present themselves in this thread.

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

As your class representative, I am listening to the concerns that present themselves in this thread.

I hope this is not another one of those situations where something is nerfed that hurts us PvErs because folks in PvP are still complaining about shields.

In difficult PvE content, I need my shield on my magicka characters. In certain situations, I even use harness magicka on my healers. And my husband, who mains a magsorc with pets, always has his sorc shield equipped, in part to protect his pets.

So the issue is actually pve. For various reasons a strong subset of healers have felt they aren't needed in content. Then even then players themselves don't find themselves needing healers. Sure the status quo still has healers participating in content, but number expressed concern in game , in discord and in forums and they aren't feeling needed for content.

Such statements are

"best score runs are without a healer in vDSA"
" I have to ask people to take as a healer for pledges"
" I feel my healers are secondary not primary"
" What do I need combat prayer with all nightblades"

Is changing shields the right call? That is for combat team to decide. My personal thoughts is issue will take time to resolve and there are many active healing play styles to account for in such changes. I think it's best to discuss why healers aren't needed so different changes might come about that is more satisfactory for solution for everyone. But my apologizes for the worries the players feel about "potential changes". We will do our best to convey such concerns as your class representatives.

Tasear wrote: »

As your class representative, I am listening to the concerns that present themselves in this thread.

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

As your class representative, I am listening to the concerns that present themselves in this thread.

I hope this is not another one of those situations where something is nerfed that hurts us PvErs because folks in PvP are still complaining about shields.

In difficult PvE content, I need my shield on my magicka characters. In certain situations, I even use harness magicka on my healers. And my husband, who mains a magsorc with pets, always has his sorc shield equipped, in part to protect his pets.

So the issue is actually pve. For various reasons a strong subset of healers have felt they aren't needed in content. Then even then players themselves don't find themselves needing healers. Sure the status quo still has healers participating in content, but number expressed concern in game , in discord and in forums and they aren't feeling needed for content.

Such statements are

"best score runs are without a healer in vDSA"
" I have to ask people to take as a healer for pledges"
" I feel my healers are secondary not primary"
" What do I need combat prayer with all nightblades"

Is changing shields the right call? That is for combat team to decide. My personal thoughts is issue will take time to resolve and there are many active healing play styles to account for in such changes. I think it's best to discuss why healers aren't needed so different changes might come about that is more satisfactory for solution for everyone. But my apologizes for the worries the players feel about "potential changes". We will do our best to convey such concerns as your class representatives.

It’s having 3 magblades running funnel health and a tank that is causing the issue. You’re looking st this through the scope of probably high end rng game healers most of which aren’t 200-600 cp. Healing CP is the issue if they feel useless then reduce healing cp and make them work their asses off to heal and it would also prevent DPS classes from out healing damage.

Is this even a thing? It's pretty rare to group with 1 magblade, let alone 3. ZOS needs to stop making up crazy excuses. They don't come up with kooky explanations every time they decided to nerf templars. If in their ultimate wisdom they think shields are OP, then balance them. if it removes easy mode from Sorcs, then they need to adapt and overcome just like every other class.

LioraValkyrie · August 2018

@Tasear IMO the issue is not the shields but the type of damage experienced in most 4-player content. Most damage affecting DDs is sudden and explosive. When this type of damage is encountered, the DD is rightly able to react first by shielding up, and the healer just tops off their health bar. The problem is that most DDs are able to top off their own health bar from behind the comfort of their shield without taking further damage, while they continue to deal damage. Many mechanics in trials - particularly Craglorn and MoL - are different, because they couple DPS checks with constant, unavoidable damage during which everyone must make the choice of whether to protect themselves and deal virtually no damage, or be protected and deal full DPS. I have a few ideas for bringing this mindset into the world of dungeoneering that don't involve changing shields...

If more damage in dungeons came in the form of unpurgeable bleeds and slow-burning DoTs, DDs would soon be crying for a healer because they would not have the resources to continuously shield and still deal acceptable damage. Even if you nerfed shields by half (and then removed the battle spirit effect in PvP) they would still be more effective at mitigating burst damage than healing on a light armour build. Adding a cast time to shields would completely break them in PvP and solo content, leading to an age of absolute stamina dominance. Light armour builds must have a fast and effective way of responding to burst damage, which shields achieve perfectly.

In most situations, not even the tank is taking constant damage. Being able to sustain resources and self-healing using nothing but Green Dragon Blood in all but the hardest hard modes is a testament to the fact that we aren't taking enough damage. But the solution is not to increase the raw damage everything deals, or to nerf shields! It is to add DoT elements to the damage we are already receiving to create the choice between protecting yourself and dealing enough damage, and dealing damage and requiring protection from a healer.

Constant shielding (or Vigour-ing for that matter) should translate into a significant DPS loss, but in reality the nature of the damage received in dungeons does not force you to constantly shield - only to pop one every so often to mitigate a sudden burst, then you can pull your own health back up with Crit Surge, Swallow Soul or the like.

On the same theme - and ultimately why shields are able to perform in the way they do, DoTs aside - I think there should be a REALLY SIGNIFICANT difference in DPS produced by 'healing versions' and 'damage versions' of certain skills. For example, you could significantly reduce the damage output of Swallow Soul, and make the other morph not heal but deal damage to nearby targets; remove the damage element from the Twilight Matriarch altogether and significantly buff the Tormentor; reduce the damage of Bloodthirst relative to Rapid Strikes, etc. Think of how the DK skill Stonefist works: if you want damage, you don't get a heal, and if you want a heal, the damage output is negligible.

If people want to build their group as a tank and 3 self-healing DDs, that's their prerogative and they should be able to do it and complete content with this composition if they enjoy it, but it should be less sustainable and deal no more damage than a group of 2 'damage morphed' DDs, a buff-focussed healer, and a tank.

(Edited for grammar)

Dracane · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

As your class representative, I am listening to the concerns that present themselves in this thread.

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

As your class representative, I am listening to the concerns that present themselves in this thread.

I hope this is not another one of those situations where something is nerfed that hurts us PvErs because folks in PvP are still complaining about shields.

In difficult PvE content, I need my shield on my magicka characters. In certain situations, I even use harness magicka on my healers. And my husband, who mains a magsorc with pets, always has his sorc shield equipped, in part to protect his pets.

So the issue is actually pve. For various reasons a strong subset of healers have felt they aren't needed in content. Then even then players themselves don't find themselves needing healers. Sure the status quo still has healers participating in content, but number expressed concern in game , in discord and in forums and they aren't feeling needed for content.

Such statements are

"best score runs are without a healer in vDSA"
" I have to ask people to take as a healer for pledges"
" I feel my healers are secondary not primary"
" What do I need combat prayer with all nightblades"

Is changing shields the right call? That is for combat team to decide. My personal thoughts is issue will take time to resolve and there are many active healing play styles to account for in such changes. I think it's best to discuss why healers aren't needed so different changes might come about that is more satisfactory for solution for everyone. But my apologizes for the worries the players feel about "potential changes". We will do our best to convey such concerns as your class representatives.

Then you also realize, that those best vDSA runs are not performed by magicka chars but by stamina chars, who melt through the content and don't even use shields, because their healing is strong enough. Shields are a great DPS loss, while passive healing is better and requires no further effort.

Turn it as you like. But just listen to what people have said here and in that debate thread. You have experienced players and dedicated healers telling you, that not shields are the problem, but that great self heal that DDs have. Their self heal is enough to survive pressure and if they are one shot, not even a healer will save them.

The problem is NOT with shields, but the way content was designed and how every main damage ability somehow heals you.
And one final piece of the puzzle: Healers are mostly only needed when you don't know what you are doing. (aka allowing DDs to make more mistakes) Once you know a dungeon in and out, you must only dodge or block through the deadly shots and are otherwise fine, as your tank takes care of the rest.
And ? None of this will change when shields are nerfed for no reason. Healers will still, not be needed more than they are now. Btw. I am so hating the title healer. Supporter would be much more accurate and supports are always great.

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

As someone who plays as a healer for around four years now, I absolutely don't get why healers should feel unimportant or weak. The only thing I understand is that the strength of defile in PvP makes it very hard for healers. But especially in PvE the impact of healers on group performance is tremendous. The Healers doing their job well gains a trial group more DPS then any single DD ever could.
DDs having their own defences does absolutely not undermine my role as a healer. In fact it even helps me by freeing up time I can use for doing other things. There really is nothing worse then not being able to properly play my role because DDs performing jobs outside the group are not using their own defences.
It also enables healers to perform special roles like vAS or vCR kiter, which are a lot of fun in my opinion.

It's interesting to see how different players can be.
The "kiting duty" thing made me quit raiding after getting my vAS hm because I felt useless, powerless (all those training attempts when I was killed by an enraged miniboss!), and it was quite boring.

Aedaryl · August 2018

Shield is not the reason why healer feel not needed in dunjons.

Everyone, stam or mag (shield or not) can do most dunjons without healer, because once you know the mechanics, it's just better to destroy the boss quickly without heal than taking one.

Tasear · August 2018

Just wanted to say listening and sharing feedback with others.

Starlock · August 2018

Shields are sometimes a reason why my healer feels unneeded in 4 person dungeons, but I wouldn’t say it is the main one. The main one is feeling like I am not trusted to do my job at all when that stamina character pops a vigor or that sorc pops matriarch heal. In fairnss, I am typically queing for a random group for dungeons. Damage dealers will frequently slot heals because fake healers are a thing. Players will slot their own heals precisely so they don’t have to rely on a (potentially fake) healer to stay alive.

I don’t think there is a solution to this that won’t have near catastrophic impacts on other areas of the game. It would be stupid to get rid of shields, and it would be stupid to ban damage dealers from slotting heals, and it would be stupid to remove heals from damage abilities. I’m fine feeling not needed in some of the random groups I get. There are many more groups where I am needed. Non-competitive gamers who don’t min-max are kept alive by my healer. I’m good with things how they are.

Saturn · August 2018

erlewine wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Someone on a magicka builds and is running vMA needs shields to avoid getting dunked by mechanics that would nuke them in seconds.

The top leaderboard scores for Magicka builds in vMA don't use shields. Really, the problem with healers isn't rooted in shields, it's rooted in DPS. With high DPS and smart play, a healer isn't needed because no damage is taken. It's not really because of shields.

Yeah, the problem is that with enough dps you can push past mechanics. Even a lot of the "can't burn this boss" mechanics they've added for Wolfhunter can be breached with enough dps. This problem will only intensify as dps potentials increase with every update. Granted, I don't think this is a problem that affects the entire playerbase, as you can't just be 3 dpses and expect everything to be better than with a healer, you do need to know how to survive and still dish out damage, BUT, it is a problem which affects the endgame community, and healers who consider themselves endgame players, quickly find that they are not wanted in groups outside of trials.

The main problem is just terrible design on the part of ZOS. They should test their own mechanics better, and try harder to create mechanics where a dedicated healer is important. Though looking at the mess they created with vMoS HM, it seems like something they are not capable of.

LioraValkyrie · August 2018

Another idea, pretty radical, but I'd like to put it out there:

Healing yourself with a skill in dungeons applies Major Maim to you for 15 seconds, reducing damage dealt by 30%.

This means that 3 self-healing DDs would deal almost exactly the damage of 2 DDs and a healer. Nothing to stop your shielding, blade-cloaking, dodging and blocking, but the actual healing must be done by a dedicated healer, or a combination of proc sets and vitality pots (which are themselves a major DPS loss) or you deal less damage for the duration.

In this scenario, you would continue to have the option of running a 3 DD group for fun, if that's what you enjoy, but you would not be more effective than a group with a dedicated healer.

Even if you could still produce more DPS with a 3-DD group with this hypothetical debuff, by simply avoiding most damage or running a clever gear setup, I think most DDs would prefer to run with a healer and be able to run a 'full damage' build.

I'm not saying this is a great idea, it's just a thought on how to deal with the '3-DD meta' that doesn't involve fundamentally changing the way dungeon mechanics or class skills work.

Tyrion87 · August 2018

What an utterly untrue and unfair statement. If this absurdity is not the reps idea but ZOS, I just lost the remnants of faith in ZOS' ability to properly balance the game. It is now evident that they are unable to do it right if they miss the point all the time. If a doctor makes bad diagnose and does not find the real source of your problem, you will not be cured.

Lieblingsjunge · August 2018

Can't remember the last time I healed any PvE-content. vDSA is spent being a DPS, with rapid reg ticking away and the occasional HotD when needed. Veteran dungeons are done with Funnel Health-ing NBs.

By wanting every class to "be able to be a group support and heal" in the past, we've reached a point where every class have some sort of off-heal that renders healers useless. The only use I can ever imagine having atm is when DDs cry "omg i need orbs/shards". Which is the only real use I find myself doing atm. Oh and keeping up Elemental Drain. OH WAIT, the DDs don't give a snip and just slots it themselves.

Same for Vigour for stamina classes. They can just keep themselves alive. Idk. Running any veteran content with a healer right now is just a waste of time.

FakeFox · August 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

As someone who plays as a healer for around four years now, I absolutely don't get why healers should feel unimportant or weak. The only thing I understand is that the strength of defile in PvP makes it very hard for healers. But especially in PvE the impact of healers on group performance is tremendous. The Healers doing their job well gains a trial group more DPS then any single DD ever could.
DDs having their own defences does absolutely not undermine my role as a healer. In fact it even helps me by freeing up time I can use for doing other things. There really is nothing worse then not being able to properly play my role because DDs performing jobs outside the group are not using their own defences.
It also enables healers to perform special roles like vAS or vCR kiter, which are a lot of fun in my opinion.

It's interesting to see how different players can be.
The "kiting duty" thing made me quit raiding after getting my vAS hm because I felt useless, powerless (all those training attempts when I was killed by an enraged miniboss!), and it was quite boring.

I fully understand that not everybody likes those roles. But why would you feel useless? You are basically one of the most important players of the group and doing multiple roles(kiting, healing, buffing, debuffing) at once and if you fail the run is pretty much screwed.

code65536 · August 2018

The trials healers that I know all scoffed at that point. In fact, they often need shields themselves, too.

I think there is a great disconnect between the devs' understanding of how we play this game and how we actually play this game. Healers in DLC vet trials do not think that shields encroach on their space. And many DLC vet trials will be substantially more difficult--if not impossible for most--without shields.

That point about shields in the rep thread is pure lunacy.