PSA: When your tank gets instagibbed at the start of the hunt in vMoS, it's not their fault

code65536 · August 2018

A number of people have asked about how to deal with this scenario: You're in Veteran March of Sacrifices, on the final boss. The boss enters the hunt phase, and the tank just drops dead.

You're not doing anything wrong. It's a bug.

It was reported at the start of the 3rd week of PTS. ZOS confirmed that it's a bug and the 4th week PTS patch notes said that it was fixed (and we didn't see the problem when we tested it during the 4th week). The bug resurfaced during the 5th week of PTS and was reported again. And now it's in the Live release.

[Edit: The problem is also present in vet non-HM, and the thread title has been adjusted to reflect that.]

Nebthet78 · August 2018

Same old crappy ZOS quality control!!

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

Wow.

Holy crap that's dumb.

Holy crap this is why I dont recognize 'git gud' as a valid response anymore, because this *** happens way too often.

Left4Daud · August 2018

I knew I wasn't crazy!

@Merlin13KAGL , this is what I was talking about with that bloody bleed DOT.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Left4Daud wrote: »

I knew I wasn't crazy!

@Merlin13KAGL , this is what I was talking about with that bloody bleed DOT.

That certainly explains a few things.

Wonder what other new 'features' they've left for us?

(Separate side note: The broke the hell out of vAS, as we weren't able to use the doors to enter, exit, couldn't port to player, via wayshrine, or even walk in the front door.)

See, neither one of us are crazy.

In the words of Turver Saudri: "Not done yet!"

zula_the_bear · August 2018

The boss applies a bleed that ticks every 1.5 sec.
As soon as you reach the hunt phase it seems to double the damage each tick, up to 40k.

Dextail · August 2018

zula_the_bear wrote: »

The boss applies a bleed that ticks every 1.5 sec.
As soon as you reach the hunt phase it seems to double the damage each tick, up to 40k.

Can you purge it?

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Dextail wrote: »

zula_the_bear wrote: »

The boss applies a bleed that ticks every 1.5 sec.
As soon as you reach the hunt phase it seems to double the damage each tick, up to 40k.

Can you purge it?

No. Do you expect tanks would be dying to it if you could?

Mureel · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Dextail wrote: »

zula_the_bear wrote: »

The boss applies a bleed that ticks every 1.5 sec.
As soon as you reach the hunt phase it seems to double the damage each tick, up to 40k.

Can you purge it?

No. Do you expect tanks would be dying to it if you could?

xD I lol'd.

MaxwellC · August 2018

Damn ZOS back at it again with another bugged release

Salvas_Aren · August 2018

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Same old crappy ZOS quality control!!

You can't call it crappy if it does not exist.

code65536 · August 2018

@ZOS_Jay @ZOS_Finn You guys did see our report during the 5th week of PTS about the regression of the hunt-amplified bleed bug, right?

max_only · August 2018

Thank you for this thread. Please paste it at the top of the board.

Like being a tank isn’t thankless enough as it is.

ResTandRespeC · August 2018

soooo, they broke their new dungeon. They further bugged vAS (w/o fixing other bugs), and added a glitch to HoF 3rd boss so no one can use the pinions.... gunna be a good month for the end game community lol.

p00tx · August 2018

The PvP community welcomes you guys to our gripe party with open arms. We've been waiting for you.

Valrien · August 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Left4Daud wrote: »

I knew I wasn't crazy!

@Merlin13KAGL , this is what I was talking about with that bloody bleed DOT.

That certainly explains a few things.

Wonder what other new 'features' they've left for us?

(Separate side note: The broke the hell out of vAS, as we weren't able to use the doors to enter, exit, couldn't port to player, via wayshrine, or even walk in the front door.)

See, neither one of us are crazy.

In the words of Turver Saudri: "Not done yet!"

You do know they shut down vAS...right? @Merlin13KAGL

JamieAubrey · August 2018

It IS fixed but in update 22

Dymence · August 2018

So the way this works is that any incoming damage at the moment the hunt phase starts gets amplified tremendously.

This isn't exclusive to tanks. After the boss does his fire charge he does a fire stomp that sends out fireball projectiles to everyone in the group, and it puts a fire DoT on them. If he goes into hunt phase straight after that (which he seems to do quite often depending on your group dps), everyone who got hit by it will die instantly. This can be avoided by just dodging every time he sends out the fireball projectiles. As for bleed on tank, the only choice you have is to use magma shell if you have the bleed and he's going into hunt phase. If you're not a DK tank, sucks to be you.

The boss in general just seems to be really buggy. Throughout several HM attempts the boss behaviour just constantly changes. I believe you're meant to get 3 hunt phases in total, but sometimes you will get the boss to 38%~ before he even starts his first one. Other times he will already do it around 77%. Can get really lucky with this stuff going on if you're struggling for a HM clear.

Troneon · August 2018

People still use tanks?

Just go 4 dps?

Qbiken · August 2018

Experienced this a few times yesterday when tanking on non-HM as well. As far as I know the first Hunt-Phase is based on the boss current HP, but the following hunt-phases are time-based. And if you´re unlucky as a tank you´ll get the bleed right before the hunt-phase begins.

I would preferably like all the hunt-phases to be based on the current health the boss has (like 75%, 50% and 25%). That way you can somewhat control the fight (especially in HM)

RANKK7 · August 2018

It always amaze me how important issues are reported on PTS and go live nonetheless. Why a dedicated forum is even there?
Does the bug of items disappearing in storage coffers rings a bell? Reported on PTS and went live like "who give a damn of your legendary items". There is people still reporting items disappearing btw.

At this point I think it's not even the QA department to blame but who decide how many resources must go into QA.

A fish rots from the head down.

MLGProPlayer · August 2018

Tanks and their excuses, smh.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Tanks and their excuses, smh.

...Please tell me your not being serious.

code65536 · August 2018

To clarify some points...

The bug specifically is that the start of the hunt amplifies existing DoTs. This includes both the bleed on the tank (both HM and non-HM) and the fire DoT on everyone (HM-only).

We noticed the problem with the amplified bleed first, long before we noticed the problem with the amplified fire DoT. The reason the bleed is much more noticeable is that, first, it's a much longer-lasting DoT, so it's more likely to still be ticking when you enter the hunt, and second, the fire DoT is avoidable by dodging the fireballs, and there is even an achievement for dodging all of the fireballs in HM, so we were definitely making an effort to dodge them all.

Because the fire DoT is both avoidable and short-lived, I didn't mention it in this thread. But it is a confirmed bug just like the tank bleed amplification bug.

The hunt-amplified bleed bug is also an issue in non-HM. I originally said HM because our attempts on PTS and Live were all HM and we weren't sure if it was happening in non-HM. But our tank died to it in a non-HM run yesterday, so it's definitely not HM-specific; I'll be updating the thread title to reflect that.

Finally, the ways to work around the hunt-amplified bleed problem are:

If the tank is a DK, have the tank reserve and pop Magma Shell if they notice that they have the bleed when the boss starts his hunt animation (right before you get the fear).
Tank the boss by kiting the boss around the room so that the boss never gets a chance to put the bleed on the tank. DPS will be slower, but the only part of the fight where DPS is important is execute. (after the 20% hunt, subsequent hunts happen on a timer rather than on health percentage--exactly like Zaan's ice phases after 20%--so you'll want to push quickly after that 20% hunt)
Don't push the boss into a hunt phase if the tank has a bleed on them.

(And for the hunt-amplified fire DoT problem, just dodge the fireballs.)

jypcy · August 2018

Also good to note is that it’s the boss’ bite attack that applies the bleed, which uses the same anim as the Argonian behemoth’s as far as I can tell. I’ve only ever noticed it go swipe > bite, so if the tank can anticipate and dodge after taking a swipe, she should never get the bleed in the first place.

(I don’t know all the attack’s names just yet but note the swipe I’m referring to is the regular light attack, not the wind up heavy.)

Wifeaggro13 · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

A number of people have asked about how to deal with this scenario: You're in Veteran March of Sacrifices, on the final boss. The boss enters the hunt phase, and the tank just drops dead.

You're not doing anything wrong. It's a bug.

It was reported at the start of the 3rd week of PTS. ZOS confirmed that it's a bug and the 4th week PTS patch notes said that it was fixed (and we didn't see the problem when we tested it during the 4th week). The bug resurfaced during the 5th week of PTS and was reported again. And now it's in the Live release.

[Edit: The problem is also present in vet non-HM, and the thread title has been adjusted to reflect that.]

see they hate tanks

Dymence · August 2018

@code65536

I have a question for you regarding the hunt. Do you know how it triggers? Is it percentage based? Is it fully time based? Is it mixed?

Like I said in my earlier post, I did several HM attempts last night and the hunts were never the same in any fight. Often he would start his first hunt around 77%. But there were times he went to around 57% before starting his first, and even as low as around 39%. We tried to identify what triggers it, but the more we tried to bypass the hunt mechanic, the more it functioned as (presumably) intended. It seems to be a good old case of high DPS breaking the mechanics, but I'm not sure.

Ratzkifal · August 2018

I love the dungeon but hard mode just seems a bit much. It's already hard enough without the stranglers and reviving is close to impossible with the constant mechanic spam. At least I haven't encountered that bug yet.

code65536 · August 2018

Dymence wrote: »

@code65536

I have a question for you regarding the hunt. Do you know how it triggers? Is it percentage based? Is it fully time based? Is it mixed?

Like I said in my earlier post, I did several HM attempts last night and the hunts were never the same in any fight. Often he would start his first hunt around 77%. But there were times he went to around 57% before starting his first, and even as low as around 39%. We tried to identify what triggers it, but the more we tried to bypass the hunt mechanic, the more it functioned as (presumably) intended. It seems to be a good old case of high DPS breaking the mechanics, but I'm not sure.

@Dymence We've noticed that as well.

Hunts are supposed to happen every 20%, at 80, 60, 40, and 20%, and then after that 20% hunt, it happens on a timer. This is similar to how the ice phases work on Zaan.

But it seems that the boss will sometimes skip a hunt phase. We think it might be if we push him past the trigger threshold before he does the hunt mechanic. We think that this is probably a bug with the timing of him entering the hunt. It doesn't delay it--he simply doesn't do that hunt.

The strange thing about this bug is that it never happens in non-HM--only in HM--and it never happens with the 20% hunt.

(Regarding the 20% hunt: Because "execute phase" hunts happen on a timer, our group wanted to make sure we burn the boss to 0 as quickly as possible after exiting the 20% hunt, so that we don't get any of the timer-based hunts. To do that, what we do is push the boss to 20 or 21%, hold DPS, wait for him to do a mechanic that has a somewhat long animation, and then nuke him during that animation. When we cleared HM, we had pushed the boss down to 13% before he entered the 20% hunt and became immune, which made the final post-hunt burn more forgiving and less stressful. Anyway, despite doing a push like that, the boss still did the 20% hunt. The same thing happens in non-HM: the boss will still do the hunt, just a little bit delayed.)

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

@Dymence it's every 20%. We've found if you ease back just before, wait for the stomp (fireballs) just after his charge, you can drop a lot of damage at once and push him past it. 20%, of course, being the exception.

Pretty sure this is likely a bug, as I don't think you're intended to skip a damn thing (even though you can do straight burns on mini bosses prior) and will likely get more broken fixed down the line.

How are the rest of you dealing with adds and stranglers? Are you nuking them, are you ignoring them, string of CC's and snares? We're still working out what works best on our end. So much still seems heavily RNG based in that regard.

Between listening for the audibles to dodge fireballs during hunt, and the amazing lack of visual distinction of shock water along with the 50 other effects going off at a given time, amplified further when it's Hunt black everywhere, it seems very hit or miss.

I'm also of the mind that you shouldn't have to have a specific class or massive change to build to clear a given content, so I tend to be reserved about increasing regen or using specific gear sets that are out of the normal.

@code65536 you can add no-death to the list of bugs, too, if it hasn't already been reported. It triggered last night, just like it initially did with Falkreath when it first came out.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Left4Daud wrote: »

I knew I wasn't crazy!

@Merlin13KAGL , this is what I was talking about with that bloody bleed DOT.

That certainly explains a few things.

Wonder what other new 'features' they've left for us?

(Separate side note: The broke the hell out of vAS, as we weren't able to use the doors to enter, exit, couldn't port to player, via wayshrine, or even walk in the front door.)

See, neither one of us are crazy.

In the words of Turver Saudri: "Not done yet!"

You do know they shut down vAS...right? @Merlin13KAGL

@Valrien , yes, thankyou. Apparently it happened while we were inside, because we were in the instance, but suddenly locked out from using any doors to proceed.

The underlined section of my post actually links to the thread relating to the shutdown.