Just allow us to buy build slots like outfit slots.
This way we can swap whenever we want between two static builds, and still have to pay the full price when we want to change something in a build. The respec scroll becomes the equivalent of an outfit token.

People are not all altoholics. I want to be able to tank on my main. But being a tank is so boring out of dungeons that I can't do that because it's too much commitment, I can't properly tank for only one dungeon without spending 25k golds... Two times...

DanteYoda wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Srsly, let the gold scale, that's just painfull.

2000 gold is too painful?

Depends on how much you have 1900 then yes 2000 is painful.

Then you should sell a couple or three vendor trash items to get to 2k. Even for a poor player, that should be pocket change.

Depends on the level of a character, not everyone is cp 750.. Also what about new customers that make multiple mistakes, even at 64 skills its expensive for them..

Why do you enjoy everything tedious..

Hurbster wrote: »

I don't see the problem with this, not as if I respec every week anyway.

Just because you do not does not mean everyone does not..

Skill respecs cost exactly 50g per skill. So if a character with 64 skill points is doing a full respect, they would pay 3200g to fix their "mistakes".

If they are only respeccing morphs, they would be paying a maximum of 1600g, provided ALL their skill points were put in a skill + a morph, which is highly unlikely.

Sogreth wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

I suppose they didn't provide a 'low cost' to respec 1 skill because they didn't want people exploiting it (i.e., instead of paying the high cost of a full respec just to respec 20 or so skills, if they had put in a reasonable price to respec 1 skill (say 200 gold), there would be a lot of people doing a major respecs and paying for it 1-skill-at-a-time) ... LOL!

And to counter that, just make a minimum of 2-3k. And that would stop any "exploiting"

And unless you are changing passives, which is not going to happen often, then 2000g is what you are paying on the high end for the "Morphs only" option, which also allows you to only change one skill, just like the full respect option does.

Maryal wrote: »

Svenja wrote: »

Aliyavana, I don't understand you. Really.
You are saying it's too expensive to pay 20k gold only to change a few morphs.
Then people point out that you only need to pay like 1650 gold to change morphs.
You then ignore that fact and state it would be okay for you if you needed to pay a flat amount of 2-3k gold.
Whut? What am I missing here?

Who is changing more than a few morphs anyways? A full skillpoint reset needs to be done when? If you have enough points, all you need to do is change morphs anyways and that costs less than 3k gold even on chars with maximum skillpoints.

Sometimes people want to try the stamina/magica (<--- whichever they aren't) version of their class, or they want to try their class as a hybrid ... either way, a respec would be in order since you would need to switch out a fair number of skills.

Yes, but that is going to happen fairly rarely. And in that case, if you don't have enough skill points to put in both sets of passives, you will need to pay for a full respect. In which case, even if you could pay only for the skill points you changed, you would still be paying a lot because you are completely changing your character.

However, most of the time, people just want to change the morphs of their skills, for which the "change morphs" option at a high average of 2000g is perfectly reasonable.

Again, the only times when you would need to use the "full respect" option (at a price of 50g per applied skill point) is when you are taking skill points out of passives or full skills

If you are only switching from a PvP morph to a PvE morph or from a DPS morph to a Healing Morph, then the "change morphs" option (at a cost of 50g per applied morph) is feasible.

If you are instead paying for the full respect when you don't need to, then that's your gold and I'm not going to judge.

PS: I don't care about respect scrolls in the Crown store and I don't know anyone who uses it. As far as I'm concerned, all consumables in the crown store can be thrown in a huge bonfire.

Sylosi wrote: »

Guild wars 2, a game that actually lets you exchange in game gold for gems (cash shop currency) removed the charge they once had for changing traits because it was bad for the players (especially the more casual players who lacked funds and those who liked to experiment with builds).

So even a game with gold to cash shop currency (hence a much bigger incentive to remove gold from the game), dropped this nonsense for the sake of their players having a better time playing, puts Zenimax into perspective...

Oh, the Guild Wars 2 that doesn't let you expand your bank space with in-game currency and that severely limits how much you can expand your inventory without spending money? Don't worry, they get you in other ways.

AlnilamE wrote: »

PS: I don't care about respect scrolls in the Crown store and I don't know anyone who uses it. As far as I'm concerned, all consumables in the crown store can be thrown in a huge bonfire.

Oh, agreed. But ZOS does care about those consumables. So any attempt to convince ZOS that they should change to a charge-per-skill-changed system that would effectively devalue those 700 crown respec scrolls has to convince ZOS, not the players.

I can't think of too many players who would object to a charge-per-skill-changed system. I just don't think its likely to happen.

Ironically, it's not even about the gold so much as the principle.

If they changed it to a higher per point reset cost (higher than morph only), it would actually be more of a gold sink because people would be inclined to respec more often.

As it is, while the not-purging-everything is a welcome addition, as the same full cost, most will simply go fetch more shards than eat 20k to reset a couple passives.

I suppose option three would be a passives only respec, at a similar, or even increased cost compared to morph only respec.

Completely undoing a learned skill is one thing, trying to relocate a point in something such as a crafting passive is quite another.

The process, now, of resetting all points, leveling a line, resetting again, and then replacing all points is a bit over the top.

You should be able to undo crafting line points at least as simply as you can undo morphs, imo.

jcm2606 wrote: »

Really boggles my mind when people defend things that screw them. Oh, we need to pay 15k to remove a single passive? That's fine!

That's how it was before Wolfhunter. That's how it is after Wolfhunter. We always had to pay 15k even if we just wanted to change a single passive. Its just loads more convenient to only change one passive as opposed to having to reset my entire build just to change one passive.

The new system is the same cost and same skills changed as the old system, just more convenient. That's all it was ever advertised as. If you thought it was going to be something different, well, that's what paying attention to the PTS is for.


Really boggles my mind when we get an improvement on an old system, and everyone throws a fit now because it turns out they wanted a totally different system instead that would be cheaper for them. The time to push for a totally new system was during the PTS. Now that its gone Live, I give you the same chance of success I give the people complaining about the monetization of the Outfit System....

I guess I'm just a little surprised that so many people are up in arms nowabout the expense of skill respecs. It was always that expensive, even if you wanted to change just one passive. There's literally nothing that changed about the current system except that you don't have to reset your whole build to change a few things.

VaranisArano wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

PS: I don't care about respect scrolls in the Crown store and I don't know anyone who uses it. As far as I'm concerned, all consumables in the crown store can be thrown in a huge bonfire.

Oh, agreed. But ZOS does care about those consumables. So any attempt to convince ZOS that they should change to a charge-per-skill-changed system that would effectively devalue those 700 crown respec scrolls has to convince ZOS, not the players.

I can't think of too many players who would object to a charge-per-skill-changed system. I just don't think its likely to happen.

Please. When did you start playing ESO? That was the cost long before crown respec were a thing. That is the amount because they thought it was a good amount for the health of the game.

Edit: I think I quoted the wrong comment here. Sorry about that. Also, the price for respecs has been cut in half since launch.

So I just went and looked at the patch notes:

Respec System Updates
We’ve updated the player ability respec system so activating respec mode no longer clears all of your points, but instead allows you to add and remove points from your abilities. You’ll still have the option to remove all points if you want a fresh start, though. We’ve also retained the morph-only option; for a reduced price, you can add and subtract any ability morphs.

- Anyone who loses a skill tree, such as vampire or werewolf, will now have all skill points in the associated tree refunded.
- This will also apply retroactively.

Anyone who previously removed one of these skill trees will have their additional skill points returned upon login.

All of these changes will apply to rededication shrines and Skill Respecification Scrolls from the Crown Store.

I didn't realize they were returning the skill points when you dropped WW or Vamp. Very nice!

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

Guild wars 2, a game that actually lets you exchange in game gold for gems (cash shop currency) removed the charge they once had for changing traits because it was bad for the players (especially the more casual players who lacked funds and those who liked to experiment with builds).

So even a game with gold to cash shop currency (hence a much bigger incentive to remove gold from the game), dropped this nonsense for the sake of their players having a better time playing, puts Zenimax into perspective...

Oh, the Guild Wars 2 that doesn't let you expand your bank space with in-game currency and that severely limits how much you can expand your inventory without spending money? Don't worry, they get you in other ways.

You realise that is nonsense, because In GW2 you can exchange in game currency (gold) for cash-shop currency (gems) so you can expand your inventory/bags without spending a single penny of real life money, and unlike this game you can expand them to the max without spending actual money.

Which is precisely why ESO in regard to spending gold on changing builds is so pathetic in comparision, GW2 by letting players exchange gold for gems has far more reason to try and remove as much gold as possible from the economy to try and "encourage" players to spend money on gems.

Yet even with that, they recognised for newer, more casual or even players that liked to experiment with builds lot charging in game gold to change builds was bad for players, so they ditched it, yet ESO still has it, which speaks volumes...

Except that if you are a casual player in GW2, you don't have enough gold to begin with, never mind enough to exchange it for gems. You are actually more likely to be exchanging gems for gold rather than the other way around.

There is no "except", you claimed you couldn't expand your bank in GW2 without spending money, that is total nonsense, you were wrong, simple as that, trying to add straw mans after the fact doesn't change that.

AlnilamE wrote: »

I've never spent a penny of real money in ESO to expand my storage or train mounts and all but my newest character are at max (and he's working on it as he earns the gold).

And the only way to expand your bank to max in ESO is to buy a sub, spending actual money. (and then to keep spending money on that sub...)

jcm2606 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Really boggles my mind when people defend things that screw them. Oh, we need to pay 15k to remove a single passive? That's fine!

That's how it was before Wolfhunter. That's how it is after Wolfhunter. We always had to pay 15k even if we just wanted to change a single passive. Its just loads more convenient to only change one passive as opposed to having to reset my entire build just to change one passive.

The new system is the same cost and same skills changed as the old system, just more convenient. That's all it was ever advertised as. If you thought it was going to be something different, well, that's what paying attention to the PTS is for.


Really boggles my mind when we get an improvement on an old system, and everyone throws a fit now because it turns out they wanted a totally different system instead that would be cheaper for them. The time to push for a totally new system was during the PTS. Now that its gone Live, I give you the same chance of success I give the people complaining about the monetization of the Outfit System....

I guess I'm just a little surprised that so many people are up in arms nowabout the expense of skill respecs. It was always that expensive, even if you wanted to change just one passive. There's literally nothing that changed about the current system except that you don't have to reset your whole build to change a few things.

Except the cost doesn't line up with the new system. Prior to Wolfhunter, 50 gold per total skills/morphs made sense because it was an all-or-nothing system. Now that you can respec on a skill-by-skill basis, it makes zero sense to still charge based on your total skills/morphs.

It's not so much the fact that people are fine with the cost that boggles my mind, but the fact that people don't want to see it change. They justify a system where what it offers in the vast majority of situations, like, literally 99.9999% of cases, is in no way worth the cost.

Again, you're paying 15k to remove one passive. And you're fine with it, and are actively defending Zenimax not addressing it. That boggles my mind.

Minor correction, I'm not precisely defending ZOS not addressing it. I just don't expect ZOS to address it. I'd be perfectly happy if they did, but I do not expect them to do so. That would require them to effectively devalue their Crown Respec Scrolls and remove a gold sink from the game, and past experience has in no way inclined me to think that ZOS would do such a thing. Tell me I'm wrong and I should have more faith in ZOS, please?

If you really want ZOS to change it, I'm saying you'll have to convince ZOS to devalue their Crown Respec Scrolls and their gold sink, and I wish you the best of luck with that, I really do.


As for the cost, as I've been pointing out, the cost is exactly the same before/after Wolfhunter whether you change 1 skill point or 100. The only reason it doesn't make sense to you now is that now you can see that you are only changing one skill, instead of before when you had to reset your whole build even though you were only changing one skill.

jcm2606 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

And that's the reason they did this. They don't care about us, they care about their money.

While I resent some of the ZOS business model as I think it devalues RPGs (limited-time pets etc), it´s not free to run those servers, create new content, and so on. I also create creative content on occasion, and let me tell you, there is no dichotomy between wanting to create something good and making money. ESO+ costs less per month than it costs me to eat *once* at my fav. restaurant on a weekend.

Some people have to pay rent.

While I get that ESO is an MMO and so has ongoing expenses that the vast majority of games generally don't have -- which is why I'm fine with the Crown Store being in the game -- you're lying to yourself if you don't think Zenimax is pushing monetisation hard for pure profits, instead of keeping the game afloat.

To put it into perspective, some of the time-exclusive houses cost as much as a triple-A console game ($50+ USD). A single practically vanity item costs as much as a full game. With the usual whales, that alone should keep the game afloat, on top of the upfront purchase of ESO. Then you factor in the upfront purchase of the game, then you add in the sub, then you add the rest of the Crown Store in, and Zenimax right there is making a killing in terms of profit. And that's not even touching Crown Crates, which potentially doubled Zenimax's revenue if you assume Crown Crates perform as well as other lootbox implementations.

Zenimax isn't struggling to keep the game afloat, they're just lining their pockets. Lootboxes alone could keep ESO going, if we're being honest. Just look at how well lootboxes with simple cosmetics do.

If any large publisher was struggling to keep a game afloat, that game would be closed down. I have no idea why people get bogged down in such logic. Large businesses don't continue with low margin businesses unless it is a growth business or is part of a larger strategy.

And why do people pretend they have any idea of what ZOS's books look like? They even mention upfront purchase of a game regularly on sale for $10. Give me a break.

And what does any of this have to do with skill respecs as a gold sink that has been in place since long before the crown store? And they actually already cut the cost of respecs in half. And all of this has nothing to do with ZOS implementing this long requested update to the skill respec UI. Sadly, there is a crowd that feels compelled to rant about the crown store and the game being profitable in every thread, even when completely irrelevant.

I'm talking about this because some people do indeed think that that 700 Crown respec scroll makes a difference -- it was used as a point for keeping the respec cost where it currently is at, reducing it may discourage purchases of the respec scroll. Which, as I'm pointing out, the scroll is merely extra profits on top of the already huge pile of profits.

Further, reducing the price wouldn't make a difference regardless. People generally don't purchase the respec scroll because it is somehow "cheaper", they purchase it out of convenience. They purchase it generally to be able to respec when they want to, without having to go to a shrine. The new respec system still requires you to go to a shrine, so to anybody arguing that reducing the price in some way will hurt Zenimax's bottom line with the respec scroll, it won't. It is solving a different problem than the problem that the respec problem solves, frankly a problem that was just introduced with the new respec system.

And you can get a good idea of how well Zenimax is doing by gauging how well microtransactions are doing throughout the entire industry. There is a reason why the industry has been seeing widespread adoption of microtransactions over the past few years. And there is a reason why Zenimax has been adopting microtransactions more and more recently, too. To have the one thing microtransactions just rake in: more profit.

If the convenience of being able to respec anytime, anywhere is indeed the main factor why people use the Crown Respec Scrolls, yeah, I agree with this. I'm sure ZOS has the data to tell if people are using it for convenience of location vs paying with crowns instead of gold.

That's a good point for why ZOS could be willing to lower the respec cost, if Crown Scrolls will retain value due to convenience.

PlagueSD wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

That is beyond stupid.

It should not cost a full respec amount to change a few skill lines/points.

Computers have the ability to add things up.
Calculating a total based on the number of skill points changed/redeemed should be rasy

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, they meant to do this. It was always about making respecs more convenient, not about making them cheaper.

Correct. It was known that the price to respec would remain the same. Now you can respec JUST the skills you want and not EVERYTHING. I can finally remove all the research passives for my crafter now that he no longer needs them without worrying about messing up his other skills. I welcome the new change.

This, I have skills I have not bothered to free up simply because all the work, including spec into medium armor on magic characters for the TG / DB line.

I assume the new reset morphs also let you set only free the ones you want?