How ZOS could incorporate IC into the base game, not upset anybody, and MAKE money doing it

NightbladeMechanics · December 2017

idk wrote: »

OMG, yes Zos could do that.

But they will not. They could do a lot of things but at no time soon, if ever, is Zos going to add IC or any other DLC to the base game as OP is hoping for.

To say OP's idea would not upset anyone is a huge stretch. A lot of players could really care less for the items in Step 2 & 3 so giving them junk for taking away from them.

It is an assumption that players will rush to buy the DLC for the items listed. If they do not want access to it now why would they purchase it for the junk OP is offering? Exactly Thx for playing.

Also, Zos is not going to refund crowns or money sued to purchase IC as has been suggested. That is revenue lost that, well, they do not want to lose.

You are likely correct that zos won’t do this. It would be so nice if they did, though. Story of our lives...

Do not attribute lack of players in IC to a lack of interest. IC is a long-beloved DLC that used to be absolutely packed, but is now left empty from lack of incentives to continue fighting there. IC loyalists would be the target market — ESO+ subs who loved the old DLC back when it was active but never bothered purchasing it due to their subs granting access — and there are many players like that. Some have posted here in this thread and actually outnumber you couple naysayers.

And of course there are also going to be some players who simply want a daedroth mount, Lich target centurion, or flesh atronach skin even outside of the context of IC.

NightbladeMechanics · December 2017

zyk wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

You still overlook the end goal of all this — making IC a healthier and more populated PvP zone in the long run.

That's not true at all. I have been advocating improvements to both Cyrodiil and IC for years. My opinions about how to best go about this are merely different than your opinions.

If ZOS wants to give away IC, I'm all for that -- who wouldn't be? But what you describe in your OP is not win/win/win as you suggest and can be done in a much simpler way.

You want to sever Cyrodiil from IC, condense IC into one instanced campaign with its own leaderboard and rewards, and have it be another sect of PvP, like BGs have become.

I want to fuse Cyrodiil and IC more closely by creating more IC objectives, tying them into campaign scores, tying them into emperorship, and breaking down barriers of access such as horse rides, DLC status, the bridges onto the middle island, and load screens. It is the Imperial City and the throne which the three factions are fighting over, after all!

Which sounds more fun to you? Also, can the PvP community withstand further fracturing in its current size?

In my opinion, that is the most fun long term destiny of IC -- fully integrated into Cyrodiil and the campaigns -- and pulling IC out of the DLC list is the first step to getting it there. ZOS just needs a way to make money off of retiring IC to the base game in order to justify the man hours to take the step, so I'm proposing a surefire way to achieve that. You may not believe that the steps I listed would work, but trust me. I do this for a living. It would as long as they execute it properly and make the Daedroth mount and Lich target centurion sufficiently attractive (for which models and artifacts already exist and are quite badass). It really is win/win/win, and your "simpler ways" lack key details and incentives which would break the process and cause it to fail.

NightbladeMechanics · December 2017

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Just make three simple announcements together:

Step 1: Announce that IC is going to be incorporated into the base game in 6 month's time, at which point all players will have access to the Imperial City and everything currently included in the DLC, and district flag objectives will be incorporated into the Cyrodiil campaign scores.

Step 2: Announce that all players who currently own the IC DLC and all those who purchase it with Crowns before it is incorporated into the base game -- in 6 month's time -- will receive an Imperial City Collector's Bundle containing the following cosmetic vanity items:
A trove scamp non-combat pet which glows white-gold just like the ones in the sewers.

A flesh atronach skin/polymorph. Wrap existing in-game textures around my character and make her look gross af.

Step 3: Announce that all players who currently own the IC DLC and all those who purchase it with Crowns -- in the next month after making this announcement -- receive:
A full-sized Crematorial Guard Daedroth mount. You ride on its shoulders, and its idle "spacebar" animation is breathing fire.

A Malazuhad district lich boss target centurion to place in our houses!

Note that ESO+ members receive nothing. You must own the DLC by having purchased it with Crowns before either deadline.

Yea, watch as everyone scrambles to buy the DLC in the first month after the announcement is made. IC is my favorite DLC, and I don't even own it, but I'd be the first to do so! These models and textures are also already all in the game. The dev time to create the new artifacts is minimal, and who's going to complain about any of this?

A recipe for incorporating our favorite old school DLCs into the base game as time passes, while making money on each one's last hurrah. You're welcome, ZOS.

Thoughts?

Amazing, I tried to convince folks of this in a previous thread but your incentives are spot on. Snowflakes win because they get something special for owning it before it was cool. Pretenders get something for buying it after it gets cool. And cheapos get a free IC in 6 mos.

And kena gets Mo potatoes to feast upon.

Give me all the potatoes!

IcyDeadPeople · December 2017

How about just put it on sale for like $1.99 for a week

maboleth · December 2017

I don't think sales are the problem. Many people own it and many people have E+ anyway.

It's the access that is troublesome. People enter Cyrodiil mostly to be, well, in Cyrodiil. While IC is the heart of Cyrodiil, people need to cross the zone for that. If no alliance keeps are near, it makes it more difficult and some just give up. If there are active fights going on, some just remain in Cyrodiil and forget their first intention.

I'm a HUGE fan of IC. The sewer system is phenomenal, there's a genuine "dungeons" environment in there and the mix of PVE and PVP is a bliss. Claustrophobia and fear.

However, just like we queue for Cyro, we should queue for IC too. Maybe the first time people should have to go Cyrodiil->IC but once discovered there should be an option to go to the IC directly. I'm almost 100% sure the population there would see an increase.

IcyDeadPeople · December 2017

maboleth wrote: »

I don't think sales are the problem. Many people own it and many people have E+ anyway.

It's the access that is troublesome. People enter Cyrodiil mostly to be, well, in Cyrodiil. While IC is the heart of Cyrodiil, people need to cross the zone for that. If no alliance keeps are near, it makes it more difficult and some just give up. If there are active fights going on, some just remain in Cyrodiil and forget their first intention.

I'm a HUGE fan of IC. The sewer system is phenomenal, there's a genuine "dungeons" environment in there and the mix of PVE and PVP is a bliss. Claustrophobia and fear.

However, just like we queue for Cyro, we should queue for IC too. Maybe the first time people should have to go Cyrodiil->IC but once discovered there should be an option to go to the IC directly. I'm almost 100% sure the population there would see an increase.

Yes, I think it would likely increase population if we had a separate campaign to spawn directly in sewer base.

There is a kind of fundamental flaw in the current system because if you go to IC in regular campaign you are sort of abandoning people in Cyrodiil who need your help.

anadandy · December 2017

You must own the DLC by having purchased it with Crowns before either deadline.

Where does this proposal leave those who got IC as part of the Gold Edition when they bought ESO? It was neither paid for by crowns or ESO+. Just curious.

NightbladeMechanics · December 2017

anadandy wrote: »

You must own the DLC by having purchased it with Crowns before either deadline.

Where does this proposal leave those who got IC as part of the Gold Edition when they bought ESO? It was neither paid for by crowns or ESO+. Just curious.

Ooh that's a good question. I'm not familiar with the package, but either you paid a little extra for it back then, or it was given as a promotional item. Either way, you own it on your account, so you'd get all the bonuses.

Quantum_V · December 2017

I actually think this idea is great. Implementing these 3 steps and then some minor revitalizing changes to IC could def turn this place into what once was one of the best areas to PvP at.

Cathexis · December 2017

Just to add to the topic of revitalizing IC...

(1) Make IC one separate server from the main servers (to separate populations from cyrodiil caps and to concentrate IC pops onto one server)
(2) Only give access to IC if your faction controls home keeps on at least 1 cyrodiil server that you home or guest on (to encourage defensive fighting in cyrodiil, and to allow factions to lock out other factions)

NightbladeMechanics · December 2017

Cathexis wrote: »

Just to add to the topic of revitalizing IC...

(1) Make IC one separate server from the main servers (to separate populations from cyrodiil caps and to concentrate IC pops onto one server)
(2) Only give access to IC if your faction controls home keeps on at least 1 cyrodiil server that you home or guest on (to encourage defensive fighting in cyrodiil, and to allow factions to lock out other factions)

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Grimlok_S · December 2017

Cathexis wrote: »

Just to add to the topic of revitalizing IC...

(1) Make IC one separate server from the main servers (to separate populations from cyrodiil caps and to concentrate IC pops onto one server)
(2) Only give access to IC if your faction controls home keeps on at least 1 cyrodiil server that you home or guest on (to encourage defensive fighting in cyrodiil, and to allow factions to lock out other factions)

Hell yeah bois! more faction stacking and gate camping!

Calboy · December 2017

Eso+ members miss out on nothing because content is constantly being added which they can access.

Zos could come out and give everyone 10,000 crowns for nothing and people would still find things to complain about.

dennissomb16_ESO · December 2017

I don't see making IC part of the base game as a good move for ZOS for a couple of reasons. Financially it has the potential to upset their model (a totally different discussion anyway) but more importantly I do not think it would solve the basic issue. I think a surprising number of players have ESO + simply for the crafting bag and a few other reasons and yet IC remains pretty dead at the moment.

To me that means there is more substantial reasons why players are not going into IC (beyond not owning the DLC or not having ESO+). I think a better discussion would be around ideas that would make IC appealing to players and ZOS implementing those ideas (once again a different discussion)

Anrose · December 2017

Cathexis wrote: »

Just to add to the topic of revitalizing IC...

(1) Make IC one separate server from the main servers (to separate populations from cyrodiil caps and to concentrate IC pops onto one server)
(2) Only give access to IC if your faction controls home keeps on at least 1 cyrodiil server that you home or guest on (to encourage defensive fighting in cyrodiil, and to allow factions to lock out other factions)

This idea has already been hashed and rehashed a too many times. And this is completely contradictory to OP’s plan, which is at least 1000x better.

Arantesovelha · December 2017

PLEASE DO THIS !!!

Love IC too, but is so empty

Solariken · December 2017

This suggestion is muy bueno

idk · December 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OMG, yes Zos could do that.

But they will not. They could do a lot of things but at no time soon, if ever, is Zos going to add IC or any other DLC to the base game as OP is hoping for.

To say OP's idea would not upset anyone is a huge stretch. A lot of players could really care less for the items in Step 2 & 3 so giving them junk for taking away from them.

It is an assumption that players will rush to buy the DLC for the items listed. If they do not want access to it now why would they purchase it for the junk OP is offering? Exactly Thx for playing.

Also, Zos is not going to refund crowns or money sued to purchase IC as has been suggested. That is revenue lost that, well, they do not want to lose.

You are likely correct that zos won’t do this. It would be so nice if they did, though. Story of our lives...

Do not attribute lack of players in IC to a lack of interest. IC is a long-beloved DLC that used to be absolutely packed, but is now left empty from lack of incentives to continue fighting there. IC loyalists would be the target market — ESO+ subs who loved the old DLC back when it was active but never bothered purchasing it due to their subs granting access — and there are many players like that. Some have posted here in this thread and actually outnumber you couple naysayers. And of course there are also going to be some players who simply want a daedroth mount, Lich target centurion, or flesh atronach skin even outside of the context of IC.

1st it is a business. They have offered IC at a discount twice since it has release, iirc.

Also, I never stated anything about the number of players in IC was linked to any interest. Seems more like a detstraction. Also, one has to look at why IC was packed and why it is not now. That is something OP does not go into.

I am not being a naysayer, just merely stating logic as to why the OP is a far fetched idea. Nothing in OP gave actual reason for Zos to refund the cost of an entire DLC.

It would set a precedence that Zos would be unwise to follow. Thinking of things is great. But it should not be expected every idea will be accepted and ideas going against the business model are much less likely to happen.

Oh, and your comment most in this thread are not naysayers, well, most in this thread have said very little other than do it. That merely a comment. No one has offered rational that actually supports the idea.

Mureel · December 2017

LOL if all the people who say they LOVE IC were actually ever there...and I've played in IC since it came out and only like 2x ever seen it 'packed.'

BaylorCorvette · December 2017

As a PvPer I would love for IC to become much more populated. I think the CQB aspect of it is very fun and a nice change of venue from Cyrodiil.

NeillMcAttack · December 2017

After reading your post, whilst I agree it would be great to see, I knew that people wouldn’t like it for the sole reason they paid money... whenever. What they don’t seem to understand though is that everything lowers in value over time, (except crypto currency it seems). The only precedent it sets is that ZOS may seem to actually care about allowing players play content that has become dated unused and overpriced as the zone becomes desolate, because they built it.

Seems like a great idea really, they could also revert to their original vision for the zone by tying entry to the control of the emporer keeps. Win/win in my book. Also a great marketing opportunity for them.

Let’s just do it already.

DeadlyRecluse · December 2017

IC and Battlegrounds are weird pieces of content in that purchasers are kinda punished by access not being granted to non-purchasers, as they rely on a healthy population with access to them in order to be fun (unless you just love grinding mobs for telvar).

I had hoped that IC would be added to the base game with last anniversary.

And I think it's a shame--and one of the weaknesses of battlegrounds--that it's behind the morrowind paywall. But it is what it is.

idk · December 2017

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

After reading your post, whilst I agree it would be great to see, I knew that people wouldn’t like it for the sole reason they paid money... whenever. What they don’t seem to understand though is that everything lowers in value over time, (except crypto currency it seems). The only precedent it sets is that ZOS may seem to actually care about allowing players play content that has become dated unused and overpriced as the zone becomes desolate, because they built it.

Seems like a great idea really, they could also revert to their original vision for the zone by tying entry to the control of the emporer keeps. Win/win in my book. Also a great marketing opportunity for them.

Let’s just do it already.

The premise that I don't understand things lower in value over time is patently false. I've even noted the doc has been sold at a reduced price, I believe twice. At least once. It's also bundled with the good edition.

The entire idea is based on a flase premise and you merely add to it.

I've already pointed out the flaws in the OP in two different posts. You added locking out factions based on ownership of emperor keeps. It seemed illogical when IC launched to prevent players entry and that hasn't changed.

NightbladeMechanics · December 2017

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't see making IC part of the base game as a good move for ZOS for a couple of reasons. Financially it has the potential to upset their model (a totally different discussion anyway) but more importantly I do not think it would solve the basic issue. I think a surprising number of players have ESO + simply for the crafting bag and a few other reasons and yet IC remains pretty dead at the moment.

To me that means there is more substantial reasons why players are not going into IC (beyond not owning the DLC or not having ESO+). I think a better discussion would be around ideas that would make IC appealing to players and ZOS implementing those ideas (once again a different discussion)

That discussion has happened already. Here, I’ll catch you up on the conversations from past threads.

The basic issue is that people don’t have a continuous reason to go to IC. Tel var is a weak currency, and there are no other rewards or links to the greater Cyrodiil campaigns to keep players coming back. Traveling to IC is a pain, so it remains largely empty despite being such a cool and beloved environment to play in.

I’ve established in other threads that linking IC objectives to the campaigns is the best way to revitalize IC. Better loot drops, expanding the tel var vendor’s inventory, and other changes would be needed too, but the campaign score is the most persistent long term incentive available. Separating IC into a separate, single campaign further fragments our small PvP community, so that’s out.

Incorporate IC into the greater Cyrodiil war via campaign points, emperorship, buffs, and other means, and you’ll see some groups coming in and out of IC all evening, others specializing in IC operations, others remaining in Cyrodiil by preference, and everyone contributing to the cause in meaningful ways. It could be wonderful.

The main objection to linking IC to the campaigns is that it’s a DLC, and therefore pay to win.

This point is valid on principle, but I’ve countered that it’s not valid in practice. No single faction or group could pay to win the campaign by dominating IC as long as 1) there are many players with access to IC, 2) each faction has an approximately equal proportion of players with access, and 3) IC’s influence on the campaign score is kept moderate. People who buy the DLC and ESO+ members could choose to fight in Cyro or IC, and players without access to IC can carry on the fight up top as usual. These are abstract counter arguments that would work in theory, but would be difficult to convince zos to act.

The easier counter argument is “well, then just make it part of the base game!” Zos is a business, though. They are naturally not inclined to allocate dev time to any change which won’t make them money, though, so I came up with these ideas on how to retire IC to the base game while making money doing it. Retiring one DLC to the base game with the intention of revitalizing its popularity wouldn’t disrupt their model if they make a big deal out of it and clarify from the start that it’s a one time occurrence in order to link it to the Cyrodiil campaigns. Especially if it drives DLC sales.

Now, there isn’t really an argument to do anything else with IC to be honest. We’ll see what reasoning people come up with.

MalcolM24 · August 2018

This is still relevant & more ppls need to see it. Looks like even the arcane university bg gets more action than the entirety of IC now, events excluded ofc. Yes I have an agenda, I'd like to have a lagfree pvp option after Cyro hits primetime.

Aliyavana · August 2018

I agree, ic is way too neglected and could use some incentives

Maryal · August 2018

Make it part of the base game as a pve environment.

Alternatively, wait another 6 months or so ... if the anti-griefing measures Bethesda puts in Fallout 76 are successful, then implement similar measures in IC.

IC was a well thought-out pve storyline/environment that was placed inside a pvp wrapper. The one and only anti-griefing 'feature' it had was scrapped during beta (before the feature got turned on in beta) and nothing was ever added to replace it. What could have been one of the best DLCs for ESO, is now among the worst (the DLC itself is among the best in the game, what makes it so bad is that pve'ers don't want to deal with unfettered griefing, so few ever go there, and without the pve'ers, the pvp'ers have little to do ... THAT makes it among the worst.). Although unfettered griefing isn't the only reason for IC's downfall, it is a major factor. Until that issue is successfully addressed, nothing is going to 'fix' IC.

The bottom line is that you can't take pve content (well written, story-driven, immersive, and visually appealing), and place a pvp wrapper around it and expect it to flourish ... especially when the pvp 'fodder' end up being the pve'ers. Pve'ers like feeling immersed, they like feeling that they are part of the story; constantly having to look behind your back for gankers sucks the fun right out of the game.

There have likely been a lot of 'lessons learned' from IC ... something I'm sure didn't go un-noticed by Bethesda given the level of importance they are placing on anti-griefing measures in Fallout-76.

Didgerion · August 2018

Zos just need to remove telvar stone stealing mechanic and IC will get populated.