Why do you skip mechanics?

Tasear · August 2018

This is often brought up in healer discord https://discord.gg/TfjSbu9 in one form of another so, here is the question what makes you want to skip mechanics.

Mettaricana · August 2018

When the mechanics arent needed because we can steam roll it... if they mechs had more weight and live or die i would do them. Vanilla game just steam roll the dungeons with no skill and all numbers. Probly why dlc dungeons are so hard base game has no challenge then throws you un steamrollable dlc dungeon mechanics so players rage quit

Chibs · August 2018

I don’t choose to skip mechanics. There are times where my group dps is just so high that mechanics don’t apply.

Tasear · August 2018

Well my poll failed yet again

, been cursed since became a class representative . :'( To make less polls.

Mettaricana wrote: »

When the mechanics arent needed because we can steam roll it... if they mechs had more weight and live or die i would do them. Vanilla game just steam roll the dungeons with no skill and all numbers. Probly why dlc dungeons are so hard base game has no challenge then throws you un steamrollable dlc dungeon mechanics so players rage quit

Why do you think it's possible to streamroll things? Is it the mobs aren't smart enough or mechanics aren't dynamic enough?

Tasear · August 2018

Chibs wrote: »

I don’t choose to skip mechanics. There are times where my group dps is just so high that mechanics don’t apply.

What you think if new mechanics happened if dps was high enough? Something to freshen up fights?

redspecter23 · August 2018

Many times, higher dps is a gateway to ignoring fewer mechanics. Any time a mechanic says "add tons of mobs now!" you are encouraged to stack and burn as it's nearly always just more efficient. Sometimes the boss has an enrage mechanic which is them saying "bring X dps or you will be SEVERELY punished" Playing any part of those sort of fights slower than you have to is penalizing.

One fight that comes to mind where heavy dps is punished and mechanics are encouraged would be VMA stage 5 boss. What they have done there is encourage you to go at a certain pace which is dictated by mechanics. Too slow and the adds will swarm you and you'll have more of them to deal with that you want. Go too fast and you may have too many adds at times you don't want them. Not a perfect fight, but at least one where it's not always best to just go MOAR DPS!

Banana · August 2018

Faster is better. I dont have the time i used to.

Mettaricana · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Well my poll failed yet again , been cursed since became a class representative . :'( To make less polls.

Mettaricana wrote: »

When the mechanics arent needed because we can steam roll it... if they mechs had more weight and live or die i would do them. Vanilla game just steam roll the dungeons with no skill and all numbers. Probly why dlc dungeons are so hard base game has no challenge then throws you un steamrollable dlc dungeon mechanics so players rage quit

Why do you think it's possible to streamroll things? Is it the mobs aren't smart enough or mechanics aren't dynamic enough?

Most mechanics just dont have any weighted outcomes like dodge or die or block or die. At same time bad servers make alot of mechanics fail or lag out glitch out cant tell ya how many times crypt of hearts 2. the boss that pulls you in for her dodge or die mechanic and it insta kills party before she even lets ya drop or her attack just cancels and nothing happens.

Enemy ai is also very very dumb like high kinlord rilis no point in worrying about the orbs just steam roll him you do more dps than he can dream of healing.

Im fine with a few dungeons having entry level mechanics you can skip when your maxed out but it keeps this easy steam roll mentality til vet city of ash 2. I also think the game needs to do more in terms of instructing you what to do more npcs that say kill the shades in fungal grotto 2 rather than let 4 random players with the IQ of a crayon trial and error it and never figure it out then wait for the other 3 flavors of crayon to carry them. Also on dlc dungeons they need to stop making ridiculously insane mechanics with no explanation huge party wipes at last few percent of boss healths or bosses with irregular ais that ignore tanks and dont even follow their own mechanics. Like if they add 2 new dlc dungeons need to have one entry level one pro level. not both being pro level it kills the dungeons playability long before its time like blood root and falkreath, both are stupid difficult huge mechanics but mainly long tough non stop mechanic heavy dungeons with high chances of failing and wipes at the drop of a hat. we get stuck with a ton of crayons trying to get carried again because they didnt learn anything but steamroll in vanilla game. On other note got dungeons like scale caller the first boss twin ranksmelling ogres the one is virtually undodgeable or blockable he litterally steam rolls you with unavoidable attacks this is not a good mechanic this is just a stupid lazy developer attempt at making content unnecessary hard vets and crayons alike wont do it unless there the 1-2% elites that live for this kinda grind level challenge.

Basically all dungeons dlc included need to be tweaked on difficulties to have noob, intermediate, pro and have boss mechanics tweaked to be more dangerous rather than stand in the red circle and heal through it mentality not saying turn everything into vma but need a stricker low level teaching curb to teach crayons to do more than expect the other players to cover them. Have the story quest nocs shout out hints in battle like the blind chick in white gold durong planar inhibitor fight to help get players new old and seasoned through this content dunno what part of the dev crew thought 200 wipes was remotely fun..

DanteYoda · August 2018

I don't, i don't even animation cancel..I don't believe in cheating in my virtual entertainment, i feel like i'm cheating myself.

Tyrobag · August 2018

I skip mechanics because I can, and I like it that way. Its good that high group dps gets rewarded in some way. I see a couple of people in here saying mechanics should be more weighted, but that's a terrible idea. Nobody likes abundant 1 shot mechanics, because nobody likes being 1 shoted. It makes for extremely frustrating gameplay. I think that we are in a pretty good place where there are some solid mechanics that aren't skippable, but still some that you can blow past with high enough dps.

max_only · August 2018

I don’t choose to skip mechanics. I’m a healer so if mechanics are skipped I don’t notice until I run the dungeons with a slower group. Like the flesh atronachs in ICP get “enraged” and have a 1 hit kill, I didn’t know that until I had a low dps group 3 nights ago and I’d been running ICP and WGT for 2 years now.

As far as unskippable mechanics, I’m only in favor of ones that reward groups for having a tank and a healer. I don’t want a punishment mechanic like the kinds of bosses that ignore taunt and just jump to any old squishy party member. If that’s the kind of mechanics I’ve been “skipping” then good riddance.

Mechanics like “run to the two alters” or “close all the portals” or “synergize with this thing in this window of time” or “always interrupt this wind up” = the kind of mechanics I find fun.

In another thread I suggested that a rewarding mechanic that requires a tank would be that the boss takes extra damage if his wind up is blocked successfully. Another mechanic that can reward healers might be healing through a “pinned down” mechanic. As of right now, when we are pinned down heals are ignored.

Waffennacht · August 2018

Most mechanics in game are = didn't do enough dmg, enjoy dying

Others are just = you die

It's not really much "mechanics" involved.

I always figured mechanics would be a way to make a difficult fight easy, not so much "you failed to be in x spot l, you die now"

To me a mechanic would be like having a boss walk over a trap, then another player pulls a trigger to deal massive damage.

Rather than forcing players to have X build, a weaker build can use the "mechanics" to win

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

1)When you're grinding specific items, you just want the boss dead asap.

2) (especially in old dungeons) It just happens naturally, sometimes it even screws you up (for example, CoH2 pledge)

3) (especially in the new dungeons) Very few players like oneshots, they're basically one of definitions of artificial difficulty. Faster kills = less oneshot mechanics to deal with.
Especially if those mechanics are like poison cones in vSP where you can easily die outside of red or after using shield synergy. Those are the kinds of mechanics that force players to bring 3dds instead of 2dds+healer, simply because they are annoying and not fun.

RedRook · August 2018

I don't like the mechanics that kick in or increase the longer we go in a fight. I particularly hate enrage, which seems stupidly punishing.

I assume this question is coming from the "healers don't feel valued when it's a DPS race" place? As a healer, I'm happy with a group that can handle themselves (stam DDs with vigor, magsorcs with shields, mageblades with siphon) and doesn't need a constant stream of heals. I'll focus on the tank, and let's burn it all down. If ZOS makes the dedicated healer role vital in 4-man content, the relatively small pool of healers is going to be a problem.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2018

Do you guys remember when NPC's would run away and go get some friends from down the hall? What happened to that? I believe that was the original purpose of Chain Pull.

Tasear · August 2018

RedRook wrote: »

I don't like the mechanics that kick in or increase the longer we go in a fight. I particularly hate enrage, which seems stupidly punishing.

I assume this question is coming from the "healers don't feel valued when it's a DPS race" place? As a healer, I'm happy with a group that can handle themselves (stam DDs with vigor, magsorcs with shields, mageblades with siphon) and doesn't need a constant stream of heals. I'll focus on the tank, and let's burn it all down. If ZOS makes the dedicated healer role vital in 4-man content, the relatively small pool of healers is going to be a problem.

Not at all,

But healers are designed to support players through mechanics. It is part of issue that it is occurring. Their various forms of support isn't being used.

Really though I was simply curious about many different Dynamics that's why :'( it was supposed to be a poll.

Are trash fights enaging? Do you feel enaged as a players?

Are dungeons to long that fights become tedious?

Are mechanics in fight to overwhelming that best way is to skip it?

Is it to much trouble when farming gear?

VaranisArano · August 2018

There are some mechanics I inevitably end up teaching the group.

The Planar Inhibitor's aggro mechanics in WGT
The venom sacs in ICP
Dont kill Cirenas' spiders in FGII
Roll out of the circles so they don't overlap in COH2

Im sure there are other mechanics some of you can think of, the PUG-breaker mechanics that we constantly have to explain.

Avran_Sylt · August 2018

It's faster.

There's no detriment not skipping them. (rewards aren't lesser, boss still has the same amount of HP).

Generally all the mechanics in this game are: "Do this or you die/wipe". Why wouldn't you want to try and skip them?

I'd honestly like to see mechanics that

-Influence the drop (IE Cloudrest, Asylum Sanctorium, Illambris Armor Motif HM). Maybe this set drops if you do this, the other set drops if you do that, you get an additional loot-drop if you this, etc.
-Chunk the bosses health (the boss has an abnormally large amount of health to begin with, not doing this mechanic makes the Trial longer, but not anymore difficult)
-Alter the battlefield, perhaps changing the arena to better suit a different play-style, making it safer/allowing Melee/Range if it wouldn't at first.

Healer's not feeling like they're needed?

A Daedric Boss:

Have 'Daedric Totems' that are summoned periodically over the fight and grant the boss a greater health-pool, adding 10 Million health for each active totem. These totems cannot be destroyed by any means apart from sacrificing a player's health. Performing a Synergy with the totem will drain 30% of the players health per second, and after 10 consecutive second of this, the totem is destroyed, with the boss immediately losing 10 Million HP. (This boss should not have any execute mechanics, otherwise this will be used expressly to cheese them).

I am not a healer, but would having a mechanic like this allow them to feel more needed?

Generally, if the mechanic is "Do this or die", people will try to find ways around them. Since there really isn't any 'incentive' apart from not dying.

Tasear · August 2018

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

It's faster.

There's no detriment not skipping them. (rewards aren't lesser, boss still has the same amount of HP).

Generally all the mechanics in this game are: "Do this or you die/wipe". Why wouldn't you want to try and skip them?

I'd honestly like to see mechanics that

-Influence the drop (IE Cloudrest, Asylum Sanctorium, Illambris Armor Motif HM). Maybe this set drops if you do this, the other set drops if you do that, you get an additional loot-drop if you this, etc.
-Chunk the bosses health (the boss has an abnormally large amount of health to begin with, not doing this mechanic makes the Trial longer, but not anymore difficult)
-Alter the battlefield, perhaps changing the arena to better suit a different play-style, making it safer/allowing Melee/Range if it wouldn't at first.

Healer's not feeling like they're needed?

A Daedric Boss:

Have 'Daedric Totems' that are summoned periodically over the fight and grant the boss a greater health-pool, adding 10 Million health for each active totem. These totems cannot be destroyed by any means apart from sacrificing a player's health. Performing a Synergy with the totem will drain 30% of the players health per second, and after 10 consecutive second of this, the totem is destroyed, with the boss immediately losing 10 Million HP. (This boss should not have any execute mechanics, otherwise this will be used expressly to cheese them).

I am not a healer, but would having a mechanic like this allow them to feel more needed?

Generally, if the mechanic is "Do this or die", people will try to find ways around them. Since there really isn't any 'incentive' apart from not dying.

That's definitely interesting idea.

Shadow-Fighter · August 2018

--

Numerikuu · August 2018

"What makes you want to skip mechanics?"

Time constraints, just farming it for the gear and having done the dungeon for the 57438975345th time. If every dungeon ended up being overhauled to be much longer due to mechanics I'd probably loose interest. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Most 'mechanics' in this game aren't even that engaging or are infuriating--especially those that penalize players who have low dps, a poor internet connection, or are disabled in some way.

LadyNalcarya · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

RedRook wrote: »

I don't like the mechanics that kick in or increase the longer we go in a fight. I particularly hate enrage, which seems stupidly punishing.

I assume this question is coming from the "healers don't feel valued when it's a DPS race" place? As a healer, I'm happy with a group that can handle themselves (stam DDs with vigor, magsorcs with shields, mageblades with siphon) and doesn't need a constant stream of heals. I'll focus on the tank, and let's burn it all down. If ZOS makes the dedicated healer role vital in 4-man content, the relatively small pool of healers is going to be a problem.

Not at all,

But healers are designed to support players through mechanics. It is part of issue that it is occurring. Their various forms of support isn't being used.

Really though I was simply curious about many different Dynamics that's why :'( it was supposed to be a poll.

Are trash fights enaging? Do you feel enaged as a players?

Are dungeons to long that fights become tedious?

Are mechanics in fight to overwhelming that best way is to skip it?

Is it to much trouble when farming gear?

Trash fights... Tbh I like vMoL trash fights, they actually require strategy and you even have an optional challenge (double chains).
vMoL is one of the best ESO instances I think, I hope there will be more content like this.

Dungeons arent too long imo, I'm not a fan of 15 minute dungeons.

It's not that they are too overwhelming, its just that they are not fun. Not everyone plays with low ping and ZOS netcode isn't very reliable, so when we have too many oneshot mechanics, you'd just want to skip as much as possible. They're simply not engaging.
Take vMoL for example (again). During Rakkhat fight you have mechanics for tanks (positioning the boss, interrupts, hulk armor shatter), you have mechanics for dds and healers (backyard, kiting meteors, popcorn, etc). People have to watch their feet so they wont explode everyone. But despite the fight being mechanic-heavy, all oneshots have very long telegraphs and can be easily avoided. Well... There was a protection bug where tank couldnt get protection and died, but its not intended at least.
In the newer dungeons there are numerous unreliable oneshot telegraphs and players I taught found them too fast to react. Stuff like ghost wall in Fang Lair hardmode where you sometimes barely see them in aoes etc. This kind of thing. Also I think aoes themselves seem less reliable in the new content. For example, vSP red cones cannot be dodged reliably, you have to walk out of them (at least from my experience with different groups, it might be ping-dependent) which is kind of counter-intuitive.

Gear is rather easy to farm, weapons, on the other hand... I like transmutation system, but still it takes a while to get a weapon to transmute.

Gythral · August 2018

I think the key here is:

I want to kill things
Not to learn how to dance with them (which is what most MMOs now seem to go for)

Integral1900 · August 2018

Boss fights tend to bore me, just give me a good story then let me burn it down to it’s boot straps

I prefer a massive trash pull with stuff exploding into various asorted special effects, much more satisfying

Damage sponge bosses and one shot mechanics just don’t interest me

Hurbster · August 2018

I can't play for that long in a single session any more due to family, job ect. So the faster the better as far as I am concerned. In fact I'd be quite happy for the mobs to stand still so I can hit them until they die.

Averrod1234 · August 2018

From a DPS point of view:

I will generally do mechanics if the group wants to or if it is necessary, however if I can skip some then I will gladly do so. Why? Because most mechanics are not the slightest bit fun to me and feel tedious in most cases. So if someone tells me „ignore XYZ, just nuke the boss“ I will gladly do so.

I reduces tediousness and gets me the reward faster. Plus it also feels very rewarding being able to do a large amounts of damage and knowing that you didn‘t have to do xyz because the damage was so high.

I can see though that this may be boring for healers and possibly tanks as they may feel degraded to mere damage buffers.

Apherius · August 2018

Most of the time my group have enough dps, for DLC dungeon we can skip most of the mechanics with 2magNB 1 magsorc and 1 dk tank.
But for old dungeon ( imperial city dungeon - base game dungeon ) with 1 heal/2dps/1 tank you can also skip 98% of the mechanics easily.

This is sad, we don't " choose " to skip mechanics, we just do it.

Chibs wrote: »

I don’t choose to skip mechanics. There are times where my group dps is just so high that mechanics don’t apply.

Exactly.

Sometimes we do need to stop dps for the 2nd key, the 3 daedroth in Banished cells for example, or the 6 nerienth's ghosts... This is boring, while waiting I /sitchair and talk with my friend about how faceroll easy the game became.

Why would I stop doing DPS just to see how boring the boss mechanics are ? The only cool dungeon boss in this game are Turvokhun and Zaan, multiple mechanics going at the same times, fast mechanics animation, it's just awesome.

A third difficulty tier would be cool, called " expert ", same boss with more health, more damage, one shot mechanics and mechanics triggering faster or at the same time and randomly.
Let's take Molag kena for example, the line of lightning turning even faster + she could summon an atronach or her big shield with the 4 adds at the same time.
With 1 or 2 more key, maybe a cosmetic reward/titles, and new achievement.

mikemacon · August 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Well my poll failed yet again, been cursed since became a class representative . To make less polls.

Sooooooo...your post skipped the mechanics?

.

AhPook_Is_Here · August 2018

I came here to vote "other" in a poll, very disappoint.

Malacthulhu · August 2018

Power creep

Dubhliam · August 2018

Vanilla dungeons are outdated, even at the time of the One Tamriel overhaul.

They are simply a stepping stone for players that just finished story mode because the difference in difficulty from story PvE to DLC dungeons is HUGE.

So, let's just forget about vanilla dungeons for now, shall we? Everyone and their grandma can skip "mechanics" in vanilla veteran dungeons.

Which DLC dungeon mechanics did you have in mind when you ask why do we skip them?