rune cage dodge is clunky and does not make sense

Wing · August 2018

I get it, you want a stun that can go through block to stop perma blockers.

but having rune cage only be dodge-able does not give it counter play, its not like there is a telegraph and you can counter by going "oh, ill dodge this" no, its random, you will have no idea that you almost got rune caged, and sorcs can target anyone not currently dodge-ing.

the whole "fix" feels clunky and does not make sense

how about just adding a new status effect that prevents block for a few seconds (2-4) or until you break free (kind of like how templar prison works for reflecting attacks)

something along those lines would fix these unavoidable stuns that last WAY to long and for some reason you cannot CC break right away because you want to destroy block some more. no reason to punish everyone while trying to nerf block some more.

technohic · August 2018

Didn’t think they had added it yet?

redspecter23 · August 2018

I think that ZOS has good intentions but doesn't fully think things through. They want a stun that punishes permablocking, but creates a stun that punishes everyone. They wanted sloads to punish heavy armor builds, but created a set that punishes everyone. They say they want one thing, but don't add a focus to these abilities that pushes them to be more effective against the targets.

Runecage could be a short duration stun, but has a longer duration if you hit someone that's blocking. Or perhaps keep it as a short duration stun, but add a stam drain effect if the target has been blocking for X seconds continuously. Make it effective against many builds, but punishing for the playstyle that is being targeted.

Sloads is meant to punish heavy armor? Make the dot small to start, maybe 100 per tick, but scale it up for each piece of heavy armor worn (+250 per heavy piece?) That would make it nearly twice as effective as it is currently against tanky heavy armor builds, but a light tickle if you're in all light or medium. Punish the intended targets instead of hitting everything and forcing a nerf later.

Ankael07 · August 2018

In ESO live Wrobel said that theyre thinking of giving it a visual effect so people can see it coming

WuffyCerulei · August 2018

They NEED to give it a visual effect. No ifs, ands, or buts. Or an audio cue. Like you can hear certain things be fired at you, like Snipe or the Grim Focus bow. Rune cage needs that.

Wing · August 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think that ZOS has good intentions but doesn't fully think things through. They want a stun that punishes permablocking, but creates a stun that punishes everyone. They wanted sloads to punish heavy armor builds, but created a set that punishes everyone. They say they want one thing, but don't add a focus to these abilities that pushes them to be more effective against the targets.

Runecage could be a short duration stun, but has a longer duration if you hit someone that's blocking. Or perhaps keep it as a short duration stun, but add a stam drain effect if the target has been blocking for X seconds continuously. Make it effective against many builds, but punishing for the playstyle that is being targeted.

Sloads is meant to punish heavy armor? Make the dot small to start, maybe 100 per tick, but scale it up for each piece of heavy armor worn (+250 per heavy piece?) That would make it nearly twice as effective as it is currently against tanky heavy armor builds, but a light tickle if you're in all light or medium. Punish the intended targets instead of hitting everything and forcing a nerf later.

or for sloads make it %max health damage, that way 15k glass cannons wont be eviscerated by it and 50k tanks laugh at it.

Feanor · August 2018

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

They NEED to give it a visual effect. No ifs, ands, or buts. Or an audio cue. Like you can hear certain things be fired at you, like Snipe or the Grim Focus bow. Rune cage needs that.

Please no more audio cues. It’s a terrible way of telegraphing an attack.

weedgenius · August 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think that ZOS has good intentions but doesn't fully think things through. They want a stun that punishes permablocking, but creates a stun that punishes everyone. They wanted sloads to punish heavy armor builds, but created a set that punishes everyone. They say they want one thing, but don't add a focus to these abilities that pushes them to be more effective against the targets.

They should hire you.

ak_pvp · August 2018

Permablock is punished enough, considering its dead outside a 1v1, and if you try, have fun with no damage. They still have to eat the entire combo even if its blocked. Roll however stops it all, and now fury too since they fixed it.

I agree it was aids to roll builds, but they keep *** block builds like tards because the NBs complain.

Strider__Roshin · August 2018

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

They NEED to give it a visual effect. No ifs, ands, or buts. Or an audio cue. Like you can hear certain things be fired at you, like Snipe or the Grim Focus bow. Rune cage needs that.

Audio cues aren't practical. This is also why Skoria needs a visual queue.

red_emu · August 2018

Yes, yes.... nerf us sorcs further. Make us also wear a huge siren and a light on top of our heards that goes 'INCOMIIIIIIING!' to every ability... in the meantime, Templars charge you and jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab till you are out of stamina and dead.

Feanor · August 2018

red_emu wrote: »

Yes, yes.... nerf us sorcs further. Make us also wear a huge siren and a light on top of our heards that goes 'INCOMIIIIIIING!' to every ability... in the meantime, Templars charge you and jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab till you are out of stamina and dead.

My fellow AD Sotha Sil comrade, you’ll love the new stealth detection indicator in that case.

Ranger209 · August 2018

Wing wrote: »

I get it, you want a stun that can go through block to stop perma blockers.

but having rune cage only be dodge-able does not give it counter play, its not like there is a telegraph and you can counter by going "oh, ill dodge this" no, its random, you will have no idea that you almost got rune caged, and sorcs can target anyone not currently dodge-ing.

Sorcs can not target anyone who is CC immune, forward momentum, pots, or recent cc immunity from breaking free all render that target untargetable until immunity wears off.

bardx86 · August 2018

Daus wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

They NEED to give it a visual effect. No ifs, ands, or buts. Or an audio cue. Like you can hear certain things be fired at you, like Snipe or the Grim Focus bow. Rune cage needs that.

Audio cues aren't practical. This is also why Skoria needs a visual queue.

OMG did I just agree with you?

RANKK7 · August 2018

Wing wrote: »

but having rune cage only be dodge-able does not give it counter play, its not like there is a telegraph and you can counter by going "oh, ill dodge this" no, its random

Same as Fear.

Wing wrote: »

... something along those lines would fix these unavoidable stuns that last WAY to long and for some reason you cannot CC break right away because you want to destroy block some more. no reason to punish everyone while trying to nerf block some more.

Same as Fear.

SO where is the nerf Fear thread?

Springt-Über-Zwerge · August 2018

red_emu wrote: »

Yes, yes.... nerf us sorcs further. Make us also wear a huge siren and a light on top of our heards that goes 'INCOMIIIIIIING!' to every ability... in the meantime, Templars charge you and jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab till you are out of stamina and dead.

You say you don't want a huge incoming above your head for every ability you use and yet you complain about templars the next sentence which is a class where every skill is a huge "'INCOMIIIIIIIING'" or 'HEREIAMHITMEPLEASE'
Thats a little fraud isn't it?

Starlight_Knight · August 2018

Leased you have a CC and many more apart from that to !!! #Magwarden

Wing · August 2018

RANKK7 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

but having rune cage only be dodge-able does not give it counter play, its not like there is a telegraph and you can counter by going "oh, ill dodge this" no, its random

Same as Fear.

Wing wrote: »

... something along those lines would fix these unavoidable stuns that last WAY to long and for some reason you cannot CC break right away because you want to destroy block some more. no reason to punish everyone while trying to nerf block some more.

Same as Fear.

SO where is the nerf Fear thread?

the same place as the nerf fossilize thread, that said its probably just under the various "nerf NB" threads

people don't have a problem with stuns

they have a problem with seeing the glowy indication of curse upon them, then all of a sudden there hit with a lightning bolt, a meteor falls from the sky on them, and there placed into a CC that has no skill and bypasses all counter play that for some reason is impossible to CC break from quickly, and then explode from 100 to 0.

when they look around to see the culprit of this burst, they see a lone sorc on a hill a mile away (28m+)

a combination of things is making both sorc and NB the bane of pvp.

-some CC cannot be broken free from immediately for whatever reason, obvious culprits being rune cage and fear. this is doubly frustrating when players are SPAMMING CC break and NOTHING is happening, its makes the death BS.

-bubbles, sorcs main defense is tied to its offense. instead of having to stack armor or health or mitigation they just stack more max magicka and damage, the bigger their shields, the bigger their damage. yes decent players can try to get around shields, and halfway decent sorcs know how to get around decent players trying to get around their shields.

-mages wrath, there is not a death recap in cyrodil or battlegrounds that is free of this skill, its the slaods of executes.

-max range, no sorc skills require any risk from the sorc, DK fossilize works the same as rune cage and nobody cares, this is a combination of so short a range that its useless, and that DK's don't have the burst sorcs do.

now I realize that blockers are a brick wall for sorcs and a lot of people. the troll builds are dumb and really annoying I agree. so how about instead of making these god tier stuns that end up getting nerfed or having dumb mechanics they just make an anti block skill. there going to kill blocking, that decision is made, lets not take everyone down with it and have another sloads on our hands.

Waffennacht · August 2018

Wing wrote: »

RANKK7 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

but having rune cage only be dodge-able does not give it counter play, its not like there is a telegraph and you can counter by going "oh, ill dodge this" no, its random

Same as Fear.

Wing wrote: »

... something along those lines would fix these unavoidable stuns that last WAY to long and for some reason you cannot CC break right away because you want to destroy block some more. no reason to punish everyone while trying to nerf block some more.

Same as Fear.

SO where is the nerf Fear thread?

the same place as the nerf fossilize thread, that said its probably just under the various "nerf NB" threads

people don't have a problem with stuns

they have a problem with seeing the glowy indication of curse upon them, then all of a sudden there hit with a lightning bolt, a meteor falls from the sky on them, and there placed into a CC that has no skill and bypasses all counter play that for some reason is impossible to CC break from quickly, and then explode from 100 to 0.

when they look around to see the culprit of this burst, they see a lone sorc on a hill a mile away (28m+)

a combination of things is making both sorc and NB the bane of pvp.

-some CC cannot be broken free from immediately for whatever reason, obvious culprits being rune cage and fear. this is doubly frustrating when players are SPAMMING CC break and NOTHING is happening, its makes the death BS.

-bubbles, sorcs main defense is tied to its offense. instead of having to stack armor or health or mitigation they just stack more max magicka and damage, the bigger their shields, the bigger their damage. yes decent players can try to get around shields, and halfway decent sorcs know how to get around decent players trying to get around their shields.

-mages wrath, there is not a death recap in cyrodil or battlegrounds that is free of this skill, its the slaods of executes.

-max range, no sorc skills require any risk from the sorc, DK fossilize works the same as rune cage and nobody cares, this is a combination of so short a range that its useless, and that DK's don't have the burst sorcs do.

now I realize that blockers are a brick wall for sorcs and a lot of people. the troll builds are dumb and really annoying I agree. so how about instead of making these god tier stuns that end up getting nerfed or having dumb mechanics they just make an anti block skill. there going to kill blocking, that decision is made, lets not take everyone down with it and have another sloads on our hands.

It's not that permablock is the true issue, nor is perma dodger, it's the fact that they both are excruciatingly good against anything/everything unless an attack is specifically undodgeable/unblockable.

Remember when curse was blockable? It was a joke of an ability because anyone would just block right before the explosion, wouldn't even lose much Stam.

Well placed dodges or blocks will make a player essentially invincible - again unless there are specifically undodgeable/unblockable abilities.

I'm gonna guess a lot of players would say that's rewarding skillful play, to which I say it's rewarding stamina builds. A mag build can never get the same mitigation value of block or dodge from shelds, especially 1vX

There needs to be counters to dodge and block, because, despite every "sustain Nerf" you can always maintain resources

Minalan · August 2018

You people aren’t going to be happy with rune cage until it gives your enemy free healing and insta-kills the caster.

Buh buh buh... dodging a non-damaging stun isn’t enough!! Boo hoo!

ak_pvp · August 2018

RANKK7 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

but having rune cage only be dodge-able does not give it counter play, its not like there is a telegraph and you can counter by going "oh, ill dodge this" no, its random

Same as Fear.

Wing wrote: »

... something along those lines would fix these unavoidable stuns that last WAY to long and for some reason you cannot CC break right away because you want to destroy block some more. no reason to punish everyone while trying to nerf block some more.

Same as Fear.

SO where is the nerf Fear thread?

Fear isn't 41m and doesn't do damage. NBs can't time burst as well.

Starlight_Knight · August 2018

Minalan wrote: »

You people aren’t going to be happy with rune cage until it gives your enemy free healing and insta-kills the caster.

Buh buh buh... dodging a non-damaging stun isn’t enough!! Boo hoo!

People don't care about the damage or the block or dodge. We care about its delayed break free mechanic. they could increase the damage for all care, i just wanna break free.

Waffennacht · August 2018

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

You people aren’t going to be happy with rune cage until it gives your enemy free healing and insta-kills the caster.

Buh buh buh... dodging a non-damaging stun isn’t enough!! Boo hoo!

People don't care about the damage or the block or dodge. We care about its delayed break free mechanic. they could increase the damage for all care, i just wanna break free.

Every class should have access to such a thing. It's practically the only way to secure a kill against good players.

The difference between classes with hard CCs and executes vs those without is too much

bardx86 · August 2018

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

You people aren’t going to be happy with rune cage until it gives your enemy free healing and insta-kills the caster.

Buh buh buh... dodging a non-damaging stun isn’t enough!! Boo hoo!

People don't care about the damage or the block or dodge. We care about its delayed break free mechanic. they could increase the damage for all care, i just wanna break free.

I agree its been a problem from day one in this game but don't nerf a skill because of bad code. If you are gonna nerf it then nerf all the CC's the same way.

Apherius · August 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

RANKK7 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

but having rune cage only be dodge-able does not give it counter play, its not like there is a telegraph and you can counter by going "oh, ill dodge this" no, its random

Same as Fear.

Wing wrote: »

... something along those lines would fix these unavoidable stuns that last WAY to long and for some reason you cannot CC break right away because you want to destroy block some more. no reason to punish everyone while trying to nerf block some more.

Same as Fear.

SO where is the nerf Fear thread?

Fear isn't 41m and doesn't do damage. NBs can't time burst as well.

Rune cage won't deal damage anymore, only if you don't break free ... And if you don't it's a l2p issue.

bardx86 · August 2018

Apherius wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

RANKK7 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

but having rune cage only be dodge-able does not give it counter play, its not like there is a telegraph and you can counter by going "oh, ill dodge this" no, its random

Same as Fear.

Wing wrote: »

... something along those lines would fix these unavoidable stuns that last WAY to long and for some reason you cannot CC break right away because you want to destroy block some more. no reason to punish everyone while trying to nerf block some more.

Same as Fear.

SO where is the nerf Fear thread?

Fear isn't 41m and doesn't do damage. NBs can't time burst as well.

Rune cage won't deal damage anymore, only if you don't break free ... And if you don't it's a l2p issue.

So once again sorcs are relegated to only killing bad players. Sound super fun, not.

Apherius · August 2018

Wing wrote: »

but having rune cage only be dodge-able does not give it counter play, its not like there is a telegraph and you can counter by going "oh, ill dodge this" no, its random, you will have no idea that you almost got rune caged, and sorcs can target anyone not currently dodge-ing.

I did not heard about that nerf, they are going to make it dodge-able ? it's in the class rep notes, right.

if they make it dodge-able and remove the damage... They will destroy the skill, nobody will use that instead clench, they need to choose.

Once again i believe they won't revert the nerf to rune cage damage, and will make it dodgeable, we will create bunch of thread about that like we did with crystal frag, they won't care about that, some newbies will ask for it to be blockable, then it will go live and every sorc will play with clench.