Is it in a realm of possibility that craft bag will be free one day? Or that's just too much to ask?

AlexanderDeLarge · August 2018

max_only wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

The craft bag will always be part of their sub plan~ They gave chests for people to buy for extra storage, I think that was their answer to this question~

In order for a new player to get those chests, that's $80 in crowns (11,000). A veteran player might be able to get them through writs but that's assuming they've struggled through inventory management long enough (or paid up even more) to the point where they can get crafting writs done for that crafting type or grinded their a** off in telvar which would be even more miserable given Cyrodiil's stability issues.

So just so we're clear for a new player...
Elder Scrolls Online collection $79.99
Storage chests in home $79.99 in crowns
4x dungeon packs as of next week roughly $45 in crowns
The cheapest home large enough to store that many chests $30 in crowns
Possibly a warden account upgrade $15 in crowns
Possibly a play any faction upgrade minimum purchase $25 in crowns
Possibly an Imperial Edition upgrade because Imperial still isn't free minimum purchase $25 in crowns

Total: $300 for an optimal account with the necessary upgrades for an Imperial Warden/Altmer on Ebonheart that has all the content owned to date and enough storage to comfortably play without ESO+

$300 is that all? Sorry that’s not impressive. If Zos paid their hamsters $10 an hour that’s not even 1 work week.

I agree that bosses/shareholders/ceos are most likely overpaid but you couldn’t run a forum let alone an entire game if every customer did a measly $300 one time payment.

Hey but that new Star Wars Battlefront though, seems legit.

Or that WoW, last time I checked I had to pay a sub, and buy each dlc separately from the sun AND there wasn’t a craft bag. They could have changed though.

$300 for an ideal account starting with about $75-$150 a year depending on whether they're buying the collector's editions of the various DLCs and physical CE chapters. It becomes more expensive if you don't buy the Collection by the way.

Meanwhile Guild Wars 2 manages to give years worth of DLC quality living world episodes for free to anyone that logs in once every three months.

If Elder Scrolls Online truly can't sustain itself with their scummy implementation of loot boxes, 3 DLCs and one boxed expansion a year, $100 houses, $30 mount skins, $15-$20 cosmetic outfits, paid dye kits, paid XP boosts, paid potions and food, the $15/mo monetization of a core mechanic and one of the pillars of the in game economy, they're doing something incredibly ****ing wrong.... But the truth is that they can, it's great they're playing people like you like a fiddle meanwhile they're laughing all the way to the bank.

Androconium · August 2018

Two things.
1. Paragraphs. Stop typing unreadable rubbish.
2. No. ZOS policy is to make you pay for things that save you time.

You don't have to pay for anything. But everything will take longer if you don't.

Now go away.

AlexanderDeLarge · August 2018

Also if you want to compare this to World of Warcraft's monetization, sure let's play this game.

Elder Scrolls Online ideal cost of entry without the storage chests since they'll have the crafting bag $80
4500 crowns for dungeon packs $45
ESO+ annual subscription $150
Chapter is abandoned as soon as it's released, they don't go back and add new areas and update existing ones
Cost of entry, content complete with a year of ESO+ subscription $275

Elder Scrolls Online chapter $40-$50 a year
ESO+ annual subscription $150
Cost of an average year of ESO once price of entry has been paid: $190-$200

World of Warcraft ideal cost of entry $50
World of Warcraft annual subscription $150 a year
That's it, you get 2 years worth of updates and DLC-sized content releases until the next expansion
Total: Cost of ideal entry plus a year of subscription $200

$50 / 2 = $25 for expansion, divided by two because expansions only release every two years
$150 yearly subscription
Cost of an average year of WoW once price of entry has been paid: $175

Valrien · August 2018

Why do you guys spend money on DLC when you can just sub?

idk · August 2018

NickStern wrote: »

Sell a craft bag for 10k crowns that holds 1 stack of each craft material.
ESO Plus remains unlimited and doubles the harvest of all materials.
That should make everyone happy.

Zos has already stated I will not happen.

It was added to ESO+ for the very obvious reason go encourage more subscriptions. Every time a thread like this pops up it is clearly telling Zos they made a fabulous business decision because the people who create these threads basically state how fabulous they think the crafting bag is.

Zos is fine with some wanting the crafting bag but not willing to pay for a subscription because they know there are many like myself who would have ceased subscribing by now if it were not for the crafting bag. It is best to keep the $ running in regularly than to have a one time payment and cut off the flow of funds.

AlexanderDeLarge · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Why do you guys spend money on DLC when you can just sub?

Because if I buy crowns during a sale I can get 21,000 crowns for what you pay to get 11,000 crowns and when everything's said and done, I own the content and you don't (unless you spend your monthly crowns on DLCs which you'll already have access to, seems counter intuitive).

Androconium wrote: »

You don't have to pay for anything. But it's highly recommended you do, everything will take longer and it'll be extremely inconvenient for people who don't cough up the cash.

Now go away.

Fixed your post for you.

DaveDom · August 2018

JKorr wrote: »

DaveDom wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

I mean, in any MMO that isn't F2P, this is the case.
A good example is World of Warcraft. Not only do you have to buy the base game, but you also have to buy the expansion, as well as pay a subscription fee. On top of that, they also have a cash shop. Not really sure the point you're trying to make. Seems you're equating single-player games to MMOs. Can't use the same logic..
I find I get way more mileage from ESO than other B2P mmo's out there.

Hmm. Nope i'm not relating to single-player games. I'm relating more at games like GW2 let's say. U buy once. U're good to go. Unless u want some costumes or dlcs and such then it's alright. I don't see any illogical thoughts in my point. And my point was simple... why advertise your game as a B2P game when in reality it's more like a b2p + p2p (like WoW). Well i'm surprised you guys see it that way that it's normal to lock down such necessities like Craft Bag under a 15$ price tag. I kinda (after spending 400$) started looking at it as a very shady thing to do. I guess you love the game more then i do if you are defending it so much and seeing it as a completely normal thing to do oh welp. To each his own. But for me b2p must be b2p. Not some shady b2p and then realising it's actually p2p model. I'd still do some exceptions i guess. Let's say if the game would be flawless. Especially without any latency issues in PvP servers when they get crowded then i'd probably consider to keep dumping money further. But for now yea...

um...Have you looked at the fun system that is "bags" for GW2? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag and there appears to be a limit as to how many you can have:

Free to play accounts start with 3 bag slots and can unlock a 4th with gems. Core and HoT accounts start with 5 bag slots and can unlock 5 more with gems.
The Path of Fire expansion introduced new 24-slot, 28-slot, and 32-slot ascended bags to be acquired through crafting.
With the October 17, 2017, update, the limit of bags per character has been raised by two for a total of 10 (previously 8)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Bags

For a hobby/fun/enjoyable thing to do, 50 cents a day is a price I'm willing to pay.

You see.. the thing is not in the craft bag itself.. but as someone mentioned that as the time went by lots of materials came into the game. And now it's at the point of if you take even by accident something u're inventory will be full quite quick. There's just too many mats already. I remember i've played some game... now i can't really remember what kind of game it was (it was MMO for sure tho). There was a similar tactical move by the company. All they did was make every monster every node drop an extra "junk" item on a 100% chance. So what they did by that is that peoples inventories were getting full x5 times quicker. U basically had to avoid killing any monster or gathering any node if u didn't want that inventory to get full. ESO feels abit similar already. U have to avoid basically gathering or just search carefully for those nodes that you need if u don't want to keep goin to cities every 5 mins. Oh and about GW2 bags.. I don't see any correlation. In gw bags felt really just like a perk and not a neccessity (and u could buy em for in-game gold). My inventory used to be very clean and for a long time. Plus i remember there was some button "add crafting mats to bank". So u see? Also a quality b2p game. The button "add crafting mats to bank" on inventory wasn't monetized somehow. And extra bags didn't really feel something that was needed. And even if u wanted those 20-24slot bags u can just go to a TP and buy em.

DaveDom · August 2018

DaveDom wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

DaveDom wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

I mean, in any MMO that isn't F2P, this is the case.
A good example is World of Warcraft. Not only do you have to buy the base game, but you also have to buy the expansion, as well as pay a subscription fee. On top of that, they also have a cash shop. Not really sure the point you're trying to make. Seems you're equating single-player games to MMOs. Can't use the same logic..
I find I get way more mileage from ESO than other B2P mmo's out there.

Hmm. Nope i'm not relating to single-player games. I'm relating more at games like GW2 let's say. U buy once. U're good to go. Unless u want some costumes or dlcs and such then it's alright. I don't see any illogical thoughts in my point. And my point was simple... why advertise your game as a B2P game when in reality it's more like a b2p + p2p (like WoW). Well i'm surprised you guys see it that way that it's normal to lock down such necessities like Craft Bag under a 15$ price tag. I kinda (after spending 400$) started looking at it as a very shady thing to do. I guess you love the game more then i do if you are defending it so much and seeing it as a completely normal thing to do oh welp. To each his own. But for me b2p must be b2p. Not some shady b2p and then realising it's actually p2p model. I'd still do some exceptions i guess. Let's say if the game would be flawless. Especially without any latency issues in PvP servers when they get crowded then i'd probably consider to keep dumping money further. But for now yea...

um...Have you looked at the fun system that is "bags" for GW2? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag and there appears to be a limit as to how many you can have:

Free to play accounts start with 3 bag slots and can unlock a 4th with gems. Core and HoT accounts start with 5 bag slots and can unlock 5 more with gems.
The Path of Fire expansion introduced new 24-slot, 28-slot, and 32-slot ascended bags to be acquired through crafting.
With the October 17, 2017, update, the limit of bags per character has been raised by two for a total of 10 (previously 8)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Bags

For a hobby/fun/enjoyable thing to do, 50 cents a day is a price I'm willing to pay.

You see.. the thing is not in the craft bag itself.. but as someone mentioned that as the time went by lots of materials came into the game. And now it's at the point of if you take even by accident something u're inventory will be full quite quick. There's just too many mats already. I remember i've played some game... now i can't really remember what kind of game it was (it was f2p MMO for sure tho). There was a similar tactical move by the company. All they did was make every monster every node drop an extra "junk" item on a 100% chance. So what they did by that is that peoples inventories were getting full x5 times quicker. U basically had to avoid killing any monster or gathering any node if u didn't want that inventory to get full. ESO feels abit similar already. U have to avoid basically gathering or just search carefully for those nodes that you need if u don't want to keep goin to cities every 5 mins. Oh and about GW2 bags.. I don't see any correlation. In gw bags felt really just like a perk and not a neccessity (and u could buy em for in-game gold). My inventory used to be very clean and for a long time. Plus i remember there was some button "add crafting mats to bank". So u see? Also a quality b2p game. The button "add crafting mats to bank" on inventory wasn't monetized somehow. And extra bags didn't really feel something that was needed. And even if u wanted those 20-24slot bags u can just go to a TP and buy em.

marc5477_ESO · August 2018

I get both sides of the argument but I dont buy the "losing subscription" argument. I think its actually very bad business and I want to say that this game has lost a lot more money from unhappy customers than it makes from using gimmicks to keep customers who love the game regardless. People who love the game will probably sub no matter what. You wont lose them over inventory. Inventory however will appeal to a new group of people, those who love to craft. Those people are much more important than most people think, because they are the lifeblood of a games economy.

Slick_007 wrote: »

marc5477_ESO wrote: »

I agree with the op. They need to add the bag and find other ways to make money because honestly, I cant see this game ever gaining more subs and I image it is still losing them.

and your solution to them losing subs is to REMOVE the main sub selling point?
you want it pay for it. as someone pointed out its as low as 50c a day. buy 1 less coffee per week and you're set.

Is it not a bit sad that this is the main reason for subs? As for the money argument, you should not throw money away just because you can. I have about $5k in expenses per month and bigger things to worry about. I dont want to manage another expense unless I absolutely love the service. But I am not just going to sign up for every offer that comes across my life because it is "cheap." I am no fool and coffee is definitely better than a video game unless said game is amazing.

The managers will do what they want but if I had a say, I would say this game needs more honey and inventory is a very small quality of life thing that would help. But honestly the problem is the ridiculous amount of loot. Its like I am playing D2 all over again...

Here is the bottom line. I just started last week. I generally love crafting and economy stuff. I wont do any of that in this game. Why? My current bank is full with 80 mats and I have another 30 more mats in my inventory. Not cool at all. I also found other issues that are vexing me... is this game level scaled? I dont remember it being that way in beta.

max_only · August 2018

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Also if you want to compare this to World of Warcraft's monetization, sure let's play this game.

Elder Scrolls Online ideal cost of entry without the storage chests since they'll have the crafting bag $80
4500 crowns for dungeon packs $45
ESO+ annual subscription $150
Chapter is abandoned as soon as it's released, they don't go back and add new areas and update existing ones
Cost of entry, content complete with a year of ESO+ subscription $275

Elder Scrolls Online chapter $40-$50 a year
ESO+ annual subscription $150
Cost of an average year of ESO once price of entry has been paid: $190-$200

World of Warcraft ideal cost of entry $50
World of Warcraft annual subscription $150 a year
That's it, you get 2 years worth of updates and DLC-sized content releases until the next expansion
Total: Cost of ideal entry plus a year of subscription $200

$50 / 2 = $25 for expansion, divided by two because expansions only release every two years
$150 yearly subscription
Cost of an average year of WoW once price of entry has been paid: $175

You’re right. Let’s go play WoW. I’ll have the same account name message me when you log in. /s

JKorr · August 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Why do you guys spend money on DLC when you can just sub?

I bought the dlc because if I drop my sub for any reason I'll still have the dlc. Things happen; home repair/vehicle repair/health issues, lots of reasons you might end up dropping a sub temporarily or permanently.

Might not be a popular way to look at things, but because I was subbed, and there wasn't a lot of stuff in the crown store that I wanted, I had crowns every month from my sub. I used the "free" crowns from the sub to buy the dlc, so....:shrug: Yes, I know the sub paid for the crowns, but they didn't have to provide the crowns in exchange. For a couple of the early senches I did buy crowns in addition, but the dlc was paid for by crowns from my sub.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

You're not accounting for sales. You're not accounting for the fact that ESO+ was implemented many years into its lifespan and you're not accounting for the fact that people can spend hundreds of dollars on their account over the years and get an experience that resembles a bad free2play game more than what you'd expect for that kind of money being spent.

Fixed it for you.

There was no craft bag, nor double storage, nor 7 additional character slots for a considerable time. Yet people managed to maintain playable accounts without much issue.

If each of your characters has six* gear set combinations, that takes up 65 inventory spaces. (What you're wearing doesn't count against your inventory cap, and I'm averaging out 13 pieces for full spec, so DW/S&B is accounted for. If you're running single piece weapons, it's even less than that.) Maxed horse and maxed inventory gives you 200 slots per character. Then you have the bank. Then you have optional housing storage (at least the first one of which is free if you level to 18).

*(And by 6 set combinations, I'm talking six full, different 13 slot paperdoll configurations, so technically 6 monster sets, and 12, that's right twelve, different 5 pc combinations.

If that still doesn't get it done, you have 5 spots for guilds, with bank access @500 slots each.

If that still doesn't get it done, you get ESO+ free about every 3-6 months when they offer free trials subs. Move every mat to your now free craftbag and you're good for quite some time.

If that still doesn't get it done, base accounts go on sale for as cheap as $10 in some cases. That's another 1600 inventory slots, full bank slots, and 5 more available guild slots.

Your chapter purchases don't count, sorry. You pay for chapter access to have chapter access, same as every other person here, ESO+ or not had to.

In 18 months you have paid for the same number of crowns you would have received anyway in 14 months' worth of sub, plus all the benefits of said sub.

You have no leg to stand on here. You've gotten what you've paid for. You're not getting what you don't.

You make your choice. Deal with it.

Salvas_Aren · August 2018

I understand that the crafting bag needs to remain ESO+ only, but there is an issue about that.

You mention all the things one can get for a subscription, like access to all DLCs and free crowns or free crown crates. What if a player already has those? Tons of crowns and all DLCs paid? ESO+ for the only thing you can't buy is a weak incentive.

Zeni should reach their players another carrot to subscribe.

GarnetFire17 · August 2018

You shouldn't have to sub for inventory management not to be a nightmare, If they don't make it free make the inventory not fill up so fast or give more bank space or something. Alot of people will choose not to play ESO because the inventory management is so bad unless you pay 12-15 dollars a month. It's an attempt to try to coerce people into a subscription and it's not a good strategy since it will often backfire.

Saluka · August 2018

It's pretty much required and can only be gotten by ESO+

GarnetFire17 · August 2018

Those that say inventory management issues is not a big deal, are wrong. It is. They are already charging 5000 crowns each for the banker and the merchant that doesn't even sell items to you. Its' basically sub or have a bad experience playing ESO because of the inventory. ESO without the craftbag makes the game extremely tedious. Yes you can do it with addons and mules but it takes of keeping your stuff organized all the time, time you should be using to actually enjoy the game.

ChuckyPayne · August 2018

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

You shouldn't have to sub for inventory management not to be a nightmare, If they don't make it free make the inventory not fill up so fast or give more bank space or something. The craftbag is basically extortion. Alot of people will choose not to play ESO because the inventory management is so bad unless you pay 12-15 dollars a month.

I already felt the same before.

Minor changes would be enough.
- Potion bags (character bound) buyable for crown or in game (tel var, voucher)
- Scroll bags (character bound) buyable for crown or in game (tel var, voucher)
- Style material bag (buyable for crown only but permanent and account bound bag)

If style materials, potions, treasure maps, books, motifs not in the inventory anymore there is no problem with inventory anymore.

Mureel · August 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Crafting bag doesn't need to be free, but it DOES need to be available for sale in the Crown Store.

I don't care if it's 10K crowns, it needs to be there to finally make things right for DLC purchasers who were deceived when "Tamriel Unlimited" launched!

Not even 10k crowns would be enough imo.

Also, lol. Do not make me laugh, given that everything ever was supposed to be included in required sub.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

Those that say inventory management issues is not a big deal, are wrong. It is. They are already charging 5000 crowns each for the banker and he merchant that doesn't even sell items to you. Its' basically sub or have a bad experience playing ESO because of the inventory.

Saying ESO+ magically fixed inventory management issues is equally wrong.

Does it make it easier regarding crafting? Of course. That's kind of the point.
Will it keep you from filling up your remaining spots and eventually having to still pick and choose? Absolutely not.

It doesn't remove it, it simply prolongs it.

Vendor and Banker are optional conveniences. There are wandering merchants along every major path in almost every zone, and at the entry point of every trial. Hell, there's even one vendor inside one of the four man dungeons.

Blackheart Haven's bartender is an actual bartender.

And the vendor doesn't sell things? Seriously? When's the last time you purchased a white, non traited, not enchanted, incredibly overpriced piece of anything from an NPC vendor anyway?

You don't need unlimited inventory. You honestly don't even need unlimited craft inventory. Reach an acceptable amount and you can stop farming, or you can keep farming and sell your excess.

Lysette · August 2018

SergeantJinx wrote: »

Sorry but I disagree with you, £9.99 a month is very cheap, it's not just the craft bag it's the dlc and crowns you get, double bank and housing space. I really can't believe you quit the game because of this.

Indeed, me for example I bought a nice house with my ESO+ crowns, which I would normally not buy with ingame gold, because it would take me too much time to get it and i would have to get an achievement before as well - which I didn't need with crowns. This is just one of the advantages and I can furniture and decorate it double as nicely than without ESO+.

Speaking of which - that Alinor apartment in Summerset is a steal as well - just 3000 gold for it, far less than most apartments and it comes with a stylish parquet floor and a beautiful candle stand. Ok, it is in a chapter still, but it will be DLC content next year most likely and then be accessible with ESO+.

Violynne · August 2018

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Still waiting for someone to my argument. It's not 50 cents a day. It's another $150 a year on top of everything else I've spent and I wouldn't get the slightest bit discounted even though I have every single dungeon pack and expansion DLC.

It's not possible to justify your argument because you're conflating two very distinct situations and trying to combine them into one facet to support your position.

As an ESO+ member, I do not own any of the DLC open to me. If I cancel my sub today, I will lose access to all of it (except Thieves Guild, which I purchased).

In order for me to get them back, I'd have to spend the same money you did. However, this will not restore the craft bag, because this is exclusive to the the subscription model.

We may not agree on the business practices of ZoS, but it would be foolish to argue the fact ZoS is offering choices to all of its players, which is actually rather rare for a game of this magnitude.

I'm not defending ZoS, but let's review what they have:
-Subs: not for everyone; unlocks DLC at no additional cost; has perks including craft bag
-DLC: direct buy; not required to play the game
-Crown Crates: think of this as the candy shelf at a checkout: it's wholly designed for impulse buying, especially how they go about putting the things people want into them

You've mentioned WoW considerably in this discussion, but WoW does not have this type of flexibility. A subscription is required.

Given all the above, the subscription is, without doubt, the most economical way to go about getting the things you want. All DLC is open, Crown Crates wouldn't cost you a dime because you get 1500 Crowns returned monthly, and of course, the craft bag.

I can't side with the position you're trying to make, honestly.

The craft bag isn't directly tied to monetary spending. It's a perk for maintaining a subscription.

ezio45 · August 2018

will never happen because its like the main selling point of eso +..... game is pretty much unplayable without it tho

Lysette · August 2018

.

JKorr wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I'm buying every DLC since the moment I started playing ESO. It's not like I end up paying much less than the ESO+ subscribers in the end. I also bought the mobile banker and merchant for a hefty amount of crowns. And I intend to continue buying all DLCs for as long as I'm playing the game, because I want to be "up to date", and I don't want to be locked out of content if I decide to take a break and come back later. And as long as I'm playing and buying all DLCs, I don't see a good reason to be treated like a 2nd class citizen.

Maybe an alternative to getting the ESO+ sub for the craft bag would be giving access to it to everyone who purchased the latest DLC, until the next DLC is released. Since people buying all DLCs are effectively subscribers too, it would achieve the same result without punishing people who prefer the b2p model. Since it's still cheaper in the end than actually buying a sub, it's ok not having all the benefits (double bank space, exp boost, extra crates during events etc), but the craft bag would be a big QoL improvement allowing me to spend more time actually playing the game rather than moving around crafting mats to my mules.

Out of curiosity; would there be an additional bonus for players who sub [continue to sub], *and* buy the dlc in case they ever drop their sub? Cause if buying the dlc counts the same as subbing, I'm subbed twice. [and bought the chapters, and bought extra crowns for mounts you can buy outright, and bought crowns to gift dlcs to friends....]

i don't see the logic in doing both - subscribing and buying the DLCs. In case you would have to drop your sub, the least of your problems would be playing a video game. In this case you would have to care for your real life getting back to normal first.

SilverWF · August 2018

Check this poll https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/428270/main-reason-you-sub-for-eso
and you'll find an answer by yourself

Violynne · August 2018

SilverWF wrote: »

Check this poll https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/428270/main-reason-you-sub-for-eso
and you'll find an answer by yourself

He did find it. His reply pretty much stated the sub wasn't worth it.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2018

Lysette wrote: »

.

JKorr wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I'm buying every DLC since the moment I started playing ESO. It's not like I end up paying much less than the ESO+ subscribers in the end. I also bought the mobile banker and merchant for a hefty amount of crowns. And I intend to continue buying all DLCs for as long as I'm playing the game, because I want to be "up to date", and I don't want to be locked out of content if I decide to take a break and come back later. And as long as I'm playing and buying all DLCs, I don't see a good reason to be treated like a 2nd class citizen.

Maybe an alternative to getting the ESO+ sub for the craft bag would be giving access to it to everyone who purchased the latest DLC, until the next DLC is released. Since people buying all DLCs are effectively subscribers too, it would achieve the same result without punishing people who prefer the b2p model. Since it's still cheaper in the end than actually buying a sub, it's ok not having all the benefits (double bank space, exp boost, extra crates during events etc), but the craft bag would be a big QoL improvement allowing me to spend more time actually playing the game rather than moving around crafting mats to my mules.

Out of curiosity; would there be an additional bonus for players who sub [continue to sub], *and* buy the dlc in case they ever drop their sub? Cause if buying the dlc counts the same as subbing, I'm subbed twice. [and bought the chapters, and bought extra crowns for mounts you can buy outright, and bought crowns to gift dlcs to friends....]

i don't see the logic in doing both - subscribing and buying the DLCs. In case you would have to drop your sub, the least of your problems would be playing a video game. In this case you would have to care for your real life getting back to normal first.

It's a simple enough thing to add them to the permanent collection when they go on sale.

TG, DB, and soon Wrothgar being 500-750 crowns each on occasion makes them easy decisions out of the crowns already provided by the sub in the first place. Just gives a little more functionality if you do have to lapse for some reason.

*I've had sub lapse due to processing issues that were no fault of my own, for instance, so it's not always tied to financial hardship.

Salvas_Aren · August 2018

Lysette wrote: »

i don't see the logic in doing both - subscribing and buying the DLCs. In case you would have to drop your sub, the least of your problems would be playing a video game. In this case you would have to care for your real life getting back to normal first.

I don't see your logic. A player can change their mind without the necessity of RL problems.

You either don't take into consideration that it works the other way round as well: Start buying DLC, then consider ESO+. What would the possessor of all DLCs free access to DLC content need for?

Simply argue *well, your decision, you get DLCs twice* is kinda pointless.

The case would be different if the possessor of DLCs would get some sort of extra candy like more crowns or crown crates for every DLC purchased so far.

Don't consider new players, who will make a well informed decision. Take into account long term players who started when the ESO+ candy was pretty poor. I purchased all DLCs at full price before the crafting bag was introduced and for sure I'm not alone.

Be the first to buy and get the same for more money, be the last and get less for the same? Does not work at the same time.

Lysette · August 2018

DaveDom wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

DaveDom wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

I mean, in any MMO that isn't F2P, this is the case.
A good example is World of Warcraft. Not only do you have to buy the base game, but you also have to buy the expansion, as well as pay a subscription fee. On top of that, they also have a cash shop. Not really sure the point you're trying to make. Seems you're equating single-player games to MMOs. Can't use the same logic..
I find I get way more mileage from ESO than other B2P mmo's out there.

Hmm. Nope i'm not relating to single-player games. I'm relating more at games like GW2 let's say. U buy once. U're good to go. Unless u want some costumes or dlcs and such then it's alright. I don't see any illogical thoughts in my point. And my point was simple... why advertise your game as a B2P game when in reality it's more like a b2p + p2p (like WoW). Well i'm surprised you guys see it that way that it's normal to lock down such necessities like Craft Bag under a 15$ price tag. I kinda (after spending 400$) started looking at it as a very shady thing to do. I guess you love the game more then i do if you are defending it so much and seeing it as a completely normal thing to do oh welp. To each his own. But for me b2p must be b2p. Not some shady b2p and then realising it's actually p2p model. I'd still do some exceptions i guess. Let's say if the game would be flawless. Especially without any latency issues in PvP servers when they get crowded then i'd probably consider to keep dumping money further. But for now yea...

um...Have you looked at the fun system that is "bags" for GW2? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag and there appears to be a limit as to how many you can have:

Free to play accounts start with 3 bag slots and can unlock a 4th with gems. Core and HoT accounts start with 5 bag slots and can unlock 5 more with gems.
The Path of Fire expansion introduced new 24-slot, 28-slot, and 32-slot ascended bags to be acquired through crafting.
With the October 17, 2017, update, the limit of bags per character has been raised by two for a total of 10 (previously 8)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Bags

For a hobby/fun/enjoyable thing to do, 50 cents a day is a price I'm willing to pay.

You see.. the thing is not in the craft bag itself.. but as someone mentioned that as the time went by lots of materials came into the game. And now it's at the point of if you take even by accident something u're inventory will be full quite quick. There's just too many mats already. I remember i've played some game... now i can't really remember what kind of game it was (it was MMO for sure tho). There was a similar tactical move by the company. All they did was make every monster every node drop an extra "junk" item on a 100% chance. So what they did by that is that peoples inventories were getting full x5 times quicker. U basically had to avoid killing any monster or gathering any node if u didn't want that inventory to get full. ESO feels abit similar already. U have to avoid basically gathering or just search carefully for those nodes that you need if u don't want to keep goin to cities every 5 mins. Oh and about GW2 bags.. I don't see any correlation. In gw bags felt really just like a perk and not a neccessity (and u could buy em for in-game gold). My inventory used to be very clean and for a long time. Plus i remember there was some button "add crafting mats to bank". So u see? Also a quality b2p game. The button "add crafting mats to bank" on inventory wasn't monetized somehow. And extra bags didn't really feel something that was needed. And even if u wanted those 20-24slot bags u can just go to a TP and buy em.

That has been ArcheAge then.

RedTalon · August 2018

I hope it never happens, no reason for them to add it to the crown store really. It basically is a loyalty perk for maintaining a subscription

MuddledMuppet · August 2018

I think basically we can all accept that an MMO needs regular income to maintain servers/content etc, so a 'free' option seems unviable for what many declare is their single biggest rerason for subscribing.

I can sympathise with those who previously spent their hard-earned on DLC when the ESO+ didn't appear to offer much incentive, but Zenimax did the the right thing imo by giving the craft bag as an extra to subs, what they haven't done well is allow some kind of monatizable option for non-subscribers, especially those who have previously spent a fortune and supported the game financially beyond the base game purchase.

Not sure if this can be done retrospectively, but one option could be a 'craft bag lite' for people who have previously spent X amount of crowns during their ESO lifetime. As has previously been suggested, perhaps one that holds one free stack per material, the amount of materials that have been added since launch makes any comparison to how we coped in the 'olden days' redundant.

Such a lite version could also be sold in crown store for same price as banker/merchant, maybe even a summonable character (maybe a mule

)

Yes, people would still need to use bank space etc for the amount of mats needed to make 160 sets, but they aren't needed so frequently/simultaneously for that to be a serious problem.

This would be a nice compromise imo, there needs to remain something that rewards subscribers, but something needs to reflect how much the impact of the new materials since launch has effected the usefullness of bank/guild/horse space etc. I don't know how many materials/items have been added since launch, 5 times? 10? 50?

Something needs to be done, and somewhere out there is a compromise solution.

For the record I happily subscribe, I personally get more entertainment from ESO than a netflix/amazon prime subscription or any other entertainment medium I can think of.