More Templar nerfs incoming if PTS stays the same...

Kadoozy · July 2018

The whole "defend your house" has been the biggest joke ever. Our house has never been worth defending. Stamplar or Magplar. It isn't like we get some significant buff being in our two aoes that other classes can't get easier. It wasn't even a big deal when we still had major mending. Then enemies only get a weak snare from entering the aoe too.

That will show them! Boy you better not come in here with this super strong 30% snare (that I am surprised didn't get removed) that you are immune to with forward momentum! Instead you better just stand outside the radius and pelt me with everything you got, if you dare. I might be able to breath of life a couple times before I run out of resources and die.

It isn't like this is new either. Templars have been getting nerfed for ages. Not even just since Morrowind. Completely unwarranted for the most part too.

Drdeath20 · July 2018

Hows everyones bankplar doing?

AbysmalGhul · July 2018

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Hows everyones bankplar doing?

Not good. It took a nerf to the face

ResTandRespeC · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

My partner and I main templars.

This, after the savagely vicious werewolf backstabbing?

Well, I'm glad I'm out. I really am. This is the problem. You'll have higher-ups who're too cowardly to make changes in favour of a more fun game (which would actually make more money), they just stick with the olde ways of MMOs, go for the hardcore, that's always going to work, right? I've explained at length, I've belaboured, I've metaphorically talked until I'm blue in the face about what the current MMO market demographic is versus what these dinosaurs believe it is.

Modern MMO players want fun, not nerfs. We aren't hardcore. The vast majority aren't raiders. Why do people quit MMOs? They feel ignored, and they have to relearn their class every few weeks because of some Everquestian old guard who thinks that 'balancing' the game will make it more popular. In the past decade, everything I've seen dictates the contrary.

MMO developer PROTIP: Most players don't give a damn about balance. What do they care about? FUN. What's NOT fun? Having to learn to play a new class or even your own class every other patch. You know why people leave? Your game isn't fun.

So many people have tried to tell MMO developers this. This is why the genre is dead.

There is a market. It's just that the people who're making the games don't know how to make a game that appeals to the market. That's incredibly frustrating. I like ESO. I don't want it to die this way, but hey, the same mistakes... It's groundhog day! Groundhog day, everyone! It's groundhog day and I can't get away.

Edit: Roll on D:OS 2 Definitive Edition, Stardew Valley MP, Skywind & Skyblivion (with Skyrim Together), and so many other co-op experiences I'll actually enjoy. I can't wait to get away from this. Stick a fork in me...

games doing just fine whether you think so or not. So is the genre

You base this on what imperical evidence?

I base my repeated assertions it's not sustaining itself well due to the sheer ammount of churn.

What's wrong with churn? More sales.

Drdeath20 · July 2018

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Hows everyones bankplar doing?

Not good. It took a nerf to the face

Yeah templars are now used for bank storage space. I think next class rep meeting the reps should flip the script, come in and say that bankplars need more bank storage space lol

Velvelya · July 2018

Zos: we dont want any one class to only be good at one role but lol let's make sure templar is basically only good at healing, and nerf even that

JJBoomer · July 2018

so basically, the whole Class Rep system is pointless and accomplishing nothing. hopefully those representing templars spoke out vehemently against this.

technohic · July 2018

JJBoomer wrote: »

so basically, the whole Class Rep system is pointless and accomplishing nothing. hopefully those representing templars spoke out vehemently against this.

Well the rune focus change seems like it came from our request. They just for some reason feel they cannot give templars anything without a nerf somewhere else. The fear is OP healers they had back when Malubeth and Reactive armor were the real culprits.

Runefang · July 2018

technohic wrote: »

JJBoomer wrote: »

so basically, the whole Class Rep system is pointless and accomplishing nothing. hopefully those representing templars spoke out vehemently against this.

Well the rune focus change seems like it came from our request. They just for some reason feel they cannot give templars anything without a nerf somewhere else. The fear is OP healers they had back when Malubeth and Reactive armor were the real culprits.

There is no point to class reps if the devs don't float ideas across their path BEFORE its implemented. I get that its early rounds on the pts but the change would have been requested, scoped out, developed and internally QA'd over the past few weeks. That's plenty of time for class reps to voice any concerns prior to PTS release.

FireCowCommando · July 2018

I've been told that Star Citizen is going to release by the time templars get there next buff

Zardayne · July 2018

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

My partner and I main templars.

This, after the savagely vicious werewolf backstabbing?

Well, I'm glad I'm out. I really am. This is the problem. You'll have higher-ups who're too cowardly to make changes in favour of a more fun game (which would actually make more money), they just stick with the olde ways of MMOs, go for the hardcore, that's always going to work, right? I've explained at length, I've belaboured, I've metaphorically talked until I'm blue in the face about what the current MMO market demographic is versus what these dinosaurs believe it is.

Modern MMO players want fun, not nerfs. We aren't hardcore. The vast majority aren't raiders. Why do people quit MMOs? They feel ignored, and they have to relearn their class every few weeks because of some Everquestian old guard who thinks that 'balancing' the game will make it more popular. In the past decade, everything I've seen dictates the contrary.

MMO developer PROTIP: Most players don't give a damn about balance. What do they care about? FUN. What's NOT fun? Having to learn to play a new class or even your own class every other patch. You know why people leave? Your game isn't fun.

So many people have tried to tell MMO developers this. This is why the genre is dead.

There is a market. It's just that the people who're making the games don't know how to make a game that appeals to the market. That's incredibly frustrating. I like ESO. I don't want it to die this way, but hey, the same mistakes... It's groundhog day! Groundhog day, everyone! It's groundhog day and I can't get away.

Edit: Roll on D:OS 2 Definitive Edition, Stardew Valley MP, Skywind & Skyblivion (with Skyrim Together), and so many other co-op experiences I'll actually enjoy. I can't wait to get away from this. Stick a fork in me...

games doing just fine whether you think so or not. So is the genre

I'd totally disagree that the genres doing just fine. I've been MMOing for over 20 years. This isn't fine...

This games only doing as good as it is right now due to lack of any serious competition. I think ESOs only competition is Sims online and possibly some single player RPGs.

Zardayne · July 2018

FireCowCommando wrote: »

I've been told that Star Citizen is going to release by the time templars get there next buff

Yep and Mag Warden's supposedly right after EQ Next's first expansion

Tannus15 · July 2018

Shadowmaster wrote: »

Let me tell you about the time, 4 patches ago, where we beamplars ruled the lands.

Entire raids of us spamming beam in vMoL, 7 deep, while NB tears fueled our dreams

Now, let me tell you about the great magplar exodus of the last 3 patches. Where not a one of us can be seen in top tier raids in any role other than heal monkey.

Different signs of the same coin. The problem is ZoS needs to balance for PvP or PVE, and its almost impossible to balance both together.

But also that after every major patch there is a clear "winner" in the dps race and everyone quickly gravitates towards it. Most of the end game players I know have magi and stam of every class and when the meta shifts they just move to the most effective end game character.

If the meta shifted and suddenly mag wardens were the top of the heap, I guarantee every leader-board in a month would be wall to wall wardens.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2018

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

My partner and I main templars.

This, after the savagely vicious werewolf backstabbing?

Well, I'm glad I'm out. I really am. This is the problem. You'll have higher-ups who're too cowardly to make changes in favour of a more fun game (which would actually make more money), they just stick with the olde ways of MMOs, go for the hardcore, that's always going to work, right? I've explained at length, I've belaboured, I've metaphorically talked until I'm blue in the face about what the current MMO market demographic is versus what these dinosaurs believe it is.

Modern MMO players want fun, not nerfs. We aren't hardcore. The vast majority aren't raiders. Why do people quit MMOs? They feel ignored, and they have to relearn their class every few weeks because of some Everquestian old guard who thinks that 'balancing' the game will make it more popular. In the past decade, everything I've seen dictates the contrary.

MMO developer PROTIP: Most players don't give a damn about balance. What do they care about? FUN. What's NOT fun? Having to learn to play a new class or even your own class every other patch. You know why people leave? Your game isn't fun.

So many people have tried to tell MMO developers this. This is why the genre is dead.

There is a market. It's just that the people who're making the games don't know how to make a game that appeals to the market. That's incredibly frustrating. I like ESO. I don't want it to die this way, but hey, the same mistakes... It's groundhog day! Groundhog day, everyone! It's groundhog day and I can't get away.

Edit: Roll on D:OS 2 Definitive Edition, Stardew Valley MP, Skywind & Skyblivion (with Skyrim Together), and so many other co-op experiences I'll actually enjoy. I can't wait to get away from this. Stick a fork in me...

games doing just fine whether you think so or not. So is the genre

You base this on what imperical evidence?

I base my repeated assertions it's not sustaining itself well due to the sheer ammount of churn.

What's wrong with churn? More sales.

Until population runs out or word circulates about the problems with a game which are open secrets with this game. Bad performance and bad balance.

In order to run the type of model ZOS wants to run, which is sell mostly overland content you need players coming back to play that content. They wont if they can barely play it or if their class becomes trash overnight. And if they choose to stick around the endgame community is elitist and snobish as crap so their unlikely to set down roots.

Game cannot survive on churn alone, it must have solid roots, and ESO has never had them.

Zardayne · July 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

ResTandRespeC wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

My partner and I main templars.

This, after the savagely vicious werewolf backstabbing?

Well, I'm glad I'm out. I really am. This is the problem. You'll have higher-ups who're too cowardly to make changes in favour of a more fun game (which would actually make more money), they just stick with the olde ways of MMOs, go for the hardcore, that's always going to work, right? I've explained at length, I've belaboured, I've metaphorically talked until I'm blue in the face about what the current MMO market demographic is versus what these dinosaurs believe it is.

Modern MMO players want fun, not nerfs. We aren't hardcore. The vast majority aren't raiders. Why do people quit MMOs? They feel ignored, and they have to relearn their class every few weeks because of some Everquestian old guard who thinks that 'balancing' the game will make it more popular. In the past decade, everything I've seen dictates the contrary.

MMO developer PROTIP: Most players don't give a damn about balance. What do they care about? FUN. What's NOT fun? Having to learn to play a new class or even your own class every other patch. You know why people leave? Your game isn't fun.

So many people have tried to tell MMO developers this. This is why the genre is dead.

There is a market. It's just that the people who're making the games don't know how to make a game that appeals to the market. That's incredibly frustrating. I like ESO. I don't want it to die this way, but hey, the same mistakes... It's groundhog day! Groundhog day, everyone! It's groundhog day and I can't get away.

Edit: Roll on D:OS 2 Definitive Edition, Stardew Valley MP, Skywind & Skyblivion (with Skyrim Together), and so many other co-op experiences I'll actually enjoy. I can't wait to get away from this. Stick a fork in me...

games doing just fine whether you think so or not. So is the genre

You base this on what imperical evidence?

I base my repeated assertions it's not sustaining itself well due to the sheer ammount of churn.

What's wrong with churn? More sales.

Until population runs out or word circulates about the problems with a game which are open secrets with this game. Bad performance and bad balance.

In order to run the type of model ZOS wants to run, which is sell mostly overland content you need players coming back to play that content. They wont if they can barely play it or if their class becomes trash overnight. And if they choose to stick around the endgame community is elitist and snobish as crap so their unlikely to set down roots.

Game cannot survive on churn alone, it must have solid roots, and ESO has never had them.

I agree 100% Doc.

I'd also add since they are selling mostly overland content that they had best beware of making content too easy as well. As a veteran I'm to the point of not buying any more expansions due to the ease of content of the new zones (which is a huge portion of each expansion). If I can't enjoy the majority of the new content, why should I purchase? a new dungeon and a new trial isn't cutting it..

tinythinker · July 2018

Long time players know the drill about how changes are made, speed of adjustments, etc. Not gonna change. You can basically check in once per year to see how a class is. Gonna more or less live with that for 12 months.

EDIT:

Was on my phone. So, yeah, a couple big changes per years and lots of little tweaks is the pace since the game's first 14-16 months.

I used to be more of a fan of that, but at this point I would break it down by spec.

For example, people keep saying (magicka) NB is hot right now, so that goes at one end of the list. Then maybe magWarden or something goes on the other end.

Those specs on the "people are generally happy with" end of things get the glacial treatment we see now, slow and steady. Don't rock the boat. Just keep tweaking.

Those specs on the other end? Make bigger and faster changes. Experiment more. Get creative. You can always hit the "revert/undo" button next month. Slow and steady gets you nowhere when you're going in circles. Unleash your inner hare.

This isn't a dig at the combat team by the way. It's a request to free their hands. Let some stupidly broken things pop up now and again, get popular feedback, then either tune it or remove it. Doesn't even have to be on the live server. Use the PTS.

I know that it's easier said then done, but it would give more hope and be more fun than the current system. Pop on to see the August-September Templar build, leave lots of feedback, laugh at/record how crazy some of it is, then look forward to the October-November PTS build.

Troneon · July 2018

I think ZOS should come visit my Templar's House....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpTn-eH4omM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIkPH_L1JfM