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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
What makes incap OP?
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LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It really isn't. Against a target dummy if you use Incap followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks then compare that to DBoS followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks you'll see that the DoT applied provides more damage than the extra 20% via Incap. For me it Out-DPS Incap by 1.4k DPS, and this is with 81 into Master-at-Arms, and 0 into Thaurmaturge. In a non-CP environment, the DoT from Dawnbreaker would be even more powerful, and against a vampire or WW even more so.
A dummy parse is hardly a valid metric for evaluating pvp performance. What makes that 20% damage buff so damn strong is how it amps burst from skills like surprise attack, assassins will/scourge, and killers blade/impale in a PvP environment. These skills are already some of the hardest hitting ones in the game. Give em 20% on top and it pushes em into a pretty absurd place.
But it’s not any one thing that makes Incap op. It’s the fact that it has all of these things at such low cost on a class that gets 20 ultimate for using a potion. To think it once cost 50 lol.
Correct, in a PvP environment your enemy doesn't just did there and take it which is another reason why that DoT out-does it because it sticks.
Here's the thing, any source of Major Defile + DBoS is better than Incap. The reason why people slot Incap is for an extra slot, and if it weren't for the fact that Argonians and Bosmers are immune to Major Defile via Disease glyph; I'd be running a Charged Bow with disease while using DBoS.
Incap is a fantastic ultimate but it's not an "I win" button as some claim.
So if DBOS is better than incap in PVP how come 95% of the stamblades all opt-in for incap?8 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »
It really isn't. Against a target dummy if you use Incap followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks then compare that to DBoS followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks you'll see that the DoT applied provides more damage than the extra 20% via Incap. For me it Out-DPS Incap by 1.4k DPS, and this is with 81 into Master-at-Arms, and 0 into Thaurmaturge. In a non-CP environment, the DoT from Dawnbreaker would be even more powerful, and against a vampire or WW even more so.
A dummy parse is hardly a valid metric for evaluating pvp performance. What makes that 20% damage buff so damn strong is how it amps burst from skills like surprise attack, assassins will/scourge, and killers blade/impale in a PvP environment. These skills are already some of the hardest hitting ones in the game. Give em 20% on top and it pushes em into a pretty absurd place.
But it’s not any one thing that makes Incap op. It’s the fact that it has all of these things at such low cost on a class that gets 20 ultimate for using a potion. To think it once cost 50 lol.
Correct, in a PvP environment your enemy doesn't just did there and take it which is another reason why that DoT out-does it because it sticks.
Here's the thing, any source of Major Defile + DBoS is better than Incap. The reason why people slot Incap is for an extra slot, and if it weren't for the fact that Argonians and Bosmers are immune to Major Defile via Disease glyph; I'd be running a Charged Bow with disease while using DBoS.
Incap is a fantastic ultimate but it's not an "I win" button as some claim.
So if DBOS is better than incap in PVP how come 95% of the stamblades all opt-in for incap?
Defile, and willing to take the risk of missing for a cheaper cost ultimate.1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Major defileTurn Major Defile into Minor Defile and be done with it. The stun change won't change anything of importance.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StunLegendaryMage wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »The 20% damage buff is OP, stun + defile + good initial damage is all fine for a dodgeable single target ulty at that cost.
But once you factor in the additional damage modifier it provides, then it's a bit too much. Usually a relentless proc right after incap, and if it crits, gg hf. I'd be totally fine if it always stunned but the 20% damage bonus was removed.
This would totally kill Incap as a viable PvE ultimate, because the 20% damage boost is literally the only thing that matters. The damage is paltry and the stun and defile are irrelevant.
Removing the 20% damage bonus is an absolutely awful idea.
To each their own. I find the damage bonus ridiculously OP in PVP when paired with defile and stun.
I'm not arguing that the 20% damage bonus is or isn't OP in PvP. I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense to remove the damage bonus because it is the only aspect that is useful in PvE. It would completely eliminate Incap from PvE.
I guess a middle-ground could be to do something like increase the buff duration and decrease the damage. So, something like +10% for 10 seconds. Or maybe make it something like a +25% critical damage buff.2 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StunI never really see the major defile being a huge issue for me, living in a magical bubble and all. The stun is annoying tho. Ontop of the additional damage taken and the ulti's damage, it's too much. Glad they're reverting it to how it orginally stunned.For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Turn Major Defile into Minor Defile and be done with it. The stun change won't change anything of importance.
But non-ults get to keep their Major Defile? That's quite backwards. Stamblades have the worst self healing in the game. Them having access to Major Defile makes sense.6 -
LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭LegendaryMage wrote: »
It really isn't. Against a target dummy if you use Incap followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks then compare that to DBoS followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks you'll see that the DoT applied provides more damage than the extra 20% via Incap. For me it Out-DPS Incap by 1.4k DPS, and this is with 81 into Master-at-Arms, and 0 into Thaurmaturge. In a non-CP environment, the DoT from Dawnbreaker would be even more powerful, and against a vampire or WW even more so.
A dummy parse is hardly a valid metric for evaluating pvp performance. What makes that 20% damage buff so damn strong is how it amps burst from skills like surprise attack, assassins will/scourge, and killers blade/impale in a PvP environment. These skills are already some of the hardest hitting ones in the game. Give em 20% on top and it pushes em into a pretty absurd place.
But it’s not any one thing that makes Incap op. It’s the fact that it has all of these things at such low cost on a class that gets 20 ultimate for using a potion. To think it once cost 50 lol.
Correct, in a PvP environment your enemy doesn't just did there and take it which is another reason why that DoT out-does it because it sticks.
Here's the thing, any source of Major Defile + DBoS is better than Incap. The reason why people slot Incap is for an extra slot, and if it weren't for the fact that Argonians and Bosmers are immune to Major Defile via Disease glyph; I'd be running a Charged Bow with disease while using DBoS.
Incap is a fantastic ultimate but it's not an "I win" button as some claim.
So if DBOS is better than incap in PVP how come 95% of the stamblades all opt-in for incap?
Defile, and willing to take the risk of missing for a cheaper cost ultimate.
Or, you can just agree with me that it's much superior for stamblade's playstyle than DBOS and that's why almost every stamblade who knows what he's doing is using it.
LiquidPony wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »The 20% damage buff is OP, stun + defile + good initial damage is all fine for a dodgeable single target ulty at that cost.
But once you factor in the additional damage modifier it provides, then it's a bit too much. Usually a relentless proc right after incap, and if it crits, gg hf. I'd be totally fine if it always stunned but the 20% damage bonus was removed.
This would totally kill Incap as a viable PvE ultimate, because the 20% damage boost is literally the only thing that matters. The damage is paltry and the stun and defile are irrelevant.
Removing the 20% damage bonus is an absolutely awful idea.
To each their own. I find the damage bonus ridiculously OP in PVP when paired with defile and stun.
I'm not arguing that the 20% damage bonus is or isn't OP in PvP. I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense to remove the damage bonus because it is the only aspect that is useful in PvE. It would completely eliminate Incap from PvE.
I guess a middle-ground could be to do something like increase the buff duration and decrease the damage. So, something like +10% for 10 seconds. Or maybe make it something like a +25% critical damage buff.
Just disable the bonus in PVP and problem solved. The thing about NBs in PVP is that their hit & run playstyle benefits tremendously from that 20% bonus, and it's not like they need it. Surprise attack stuns from stealth, applies auto debuff and auto buff to the caster, relentless does tons of damage on top of having minor berzerk, so my point is that when all of that is combined it's obvious the 20% dmg bonus has no business in PVP.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Turn Major Defile into Minor Defile and be done with it. The stun change won't change anything of importance.
If I'm not mistaken, from now on major defile will last 4 seconds, so I'm alright with Incap having that since it can't be used on a 4 second cooldown.
It's only the extra bonus damage modifier that's problematic since it doesn't correspond to any existing buffs, it's a completely unique damage buff on its own.
Like I said above, that should just not work in PVP and the skill would have no probs in PVE and would be much more balanced in PVP.3 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »
It really isn't. Against a target dummy if you use Incap followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks then compare that to DBoS followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks you'll see that the DoT applied provides more damage than the extra 20% via Incap. For me it Out-DPS Incap by 1.4k DPS, and this is with 81 into Master-at-Arms, and 0 into Thaurmaturge. In a non-CP environment, the DoT from Dawnbreaker would be even more powerful, and against a vampire or WW even more so.
A dummy parse is hardly a valid metric for evaluating pvp performance. What makes that 20% damage buff so damn strong is how it amps burst from skills like surprise attack, assassins will/scourge, and killers blade/impale in a PvP environment. These skills are already some of the hardest hitting ones in the game. Give em 20% on top and it pushes em into a pretty absurd place.
But it’s not any one thing that makes Incap op. It’s the fact that it has all of these things at such low cost on a class that gets 20 ultimate for using a potion. To think it once cost 50 lol.
Correct, in a PvP environment your enemy doesn't just did there and take it which is another reason why that DoT out-does it because it sticks.
Here's the thing, any source of Major Defile + DBoS is better than Incap. The reason why people slot Incap is for an extra slot, and if it weren't for the fact that Argonians and Bosmers are immune to Major Defile via Disease glyph; I'd be running a Charged Bow with disease while using DBoS.
Incap is a fantastic ultimate but it's not an "I win" button as some claim.
So if DBOS is better than incap in PVP how come 95% of the stamblades all opt-in for incap?
Defile, and willing to take the risk of missing for a cheaper cost ultimate.
Or, you can just agree with me that it's much superior for stamblade's playstyle than DBOS and that's why almost every stamblade who knows what he's doing is using it.
I don't play like a normal stamblade so you may be correct. How about we to take Major Defile from Death Stroke, and put it on Grim Focus instead? This way Nightblades will be less obligated to use Death Stroke 6 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭I feel that many skills including incap are a totally different ballgame between pc and console in they way it's activated and the way it reacts so from a console perspective I think incap is fine but that may not be the case for pcps4eu
Kramm stam man kittyblade0 -
LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »
It really isn't. Against a target dummy if you use Incap followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks then compare that to DBoS followed by 5 LA weaved surprise attacks you'll see that the DoT applied provides more damage than the extra 20% via Incap. For me it Out-DPS Incap by 1.4k DPS, and this is with 81 into Master-at-Arms, and 0 into Thaurmaturge. In a non-CP environment, the DoT from Dawnbreaker would be even more powerful, and against a vampire or WW even more so.
A dummy parse is hardly a valid metric for evaluating pvp performance. What makes that 20% damage buff so damn strong is how it amps burst from skills like surprise attack, assassins will/scourge, and killers blade/impale in a PvP environment. These skills are already some of the hardest hitting ones in the game. Give em 20% on top and it pushes em into a pretty absurd place.
But it’s not any one thing that makes Incap op. It’s the fact that it has all of these things at such low cost on a class that gets 20 ultimate for using a potion. To think it once cost 50 lol.
Correct, in a PvP environment your enemy doesn't just did there and take it which is another reason why that DoT out-does it because it sticks.
Here's the thing, any source of Major Defile + DBoS is better than Incap. The reason why people slot Incap is for an extra slot, and if it weren't for the fact that Argonians and Bosmers are immune to Major Defile via Disease glyph; I'd be running a Charged Bow with disease while using DBoS.
Incap is a fantastic ultimate but it's not an "I win" button as some claim.
So if DBOS is better than incap in PVP how come 95% of the stamblades all opt-in for incap?
Defile, and willing to take the risk of missing for a cheaper cost ultimate.
Or, you can just agree with me that it's much superior for stamblade's playstyle than DBOS and that's why almost every stamblade who knows what he's doing is using it.
I don't play like a normal stamblade so you may be correct. How about we to take Major Defile from Death Stroke, and put it on Grim Focus instead? This way Nightblades will be less obligated to use Death Stroke
Like I said, I don't mind defile on the ulty, especially now that (if I'm correct) defile will last for only 4 seconds. It's fine for an ulty to have a major debuff.1 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Stunidk what is overperforming here..I as stamblade even not using that often incap than DBoS
my incap is just mor time dodget tha getting hit if I dont hit someone with it on cc or from stealth and here I much more prefer DBoS because of undodgable stun + also great dmg with not bad dot
incap for me is great only against damn tanks/healbots and then maybe for people in cc by someone other before or in choas so people just cant see everything
TL;DR
I as stamblade preffer more DBoS than incap (if not fighting against tanks/healbots) because its unddodgable with even better direct dmg hit with dot and uou are 100% sure someone wonth dodge this etc
Then you won't mind a nerf now would you?Edited by Micah_Bayer on July 14, 2018 6:28PM0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭StunRagnaroek93 wrote: »Turn Major Defile into Minor Defile and be done with it. The stun change won't change anything of importance.
But non-ults get to keep their Major Defile? That's quite backwards. Stamblades have the worst self healing in the game. Them having access to Major Defile makes sense.
But they have some ofthe best defense. You can negate 23% dmg with just class skills not adding in resistances yet. Throw on pirate skelly in pvp and you can negate 53% dmg without applying resistances yet0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Turn Major Defile into Minor Defile and be done with it. The stun change won't change anything of importance.
But non-ults get to keep their Major Defile? That's quite backwards. Stamblades have the worst self healing in the game. Them having access to Major Defile makes sense.
But they have some ofthe best defense. You can negate 23% dmg with just class skills not adding in resistances yet. Throw on pirate skelly in pvp and you can negate 53% dmg without applying resistances yet
I'm assuming you're referring to minor maim + Dark Cloak with the minor protection? Yeah the minor maim is quite strong in a 1v1 scenario. The Minor Protection from Dark Cloak doesn't work so there goes that. Either way it's such a short duration you probably didn't even notice.1 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭really it just did way to much 1 thing had to be removed I mean defile stun nd 20% dmg increase with such a low cost and nb high ult gen its used like a normal abilityDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I don't think Incapacitating Strike over performs.
If a person wants to use a dodgeable, telegraphed ultimate with the potential to gain a stun, defile, and damage boost against one target and give up team assistance, multi-target, ultimate with less counters, defensive ultimate, or healing ultimate, then they should go for it. That is exactly the point of choosing one ultimate over another. Sacrifice [x] to gain [y].
You want to trade that non over-performing Incap Strike that's on Live for my Empowering Sweep? They cost the same so should be equivalent in power, yes?
If you are going to reply that ZoS should buff my crummy ultimate rather than nerf the NB one, I'd be fine with that. The problem, going on 3+ years now, is that ZoS has not done that and so we are stuck in a situation where the NB 75 cost ultimate is way better than the templar 75 cost ultimate.0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do people not block Incapacitating Strike?
[] Not enough experience in the game to know when they should block
[] Not knowing it can be blocked
[] Not having enough stamina to block
[] Not wanting to survive Incapacitating Strike (for people who prefer following the crowd)
Edited by Maryal on July 15, 2018 7:58AM6 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The 20% dmg buffAbsolutely outrageous that they can hit you with this and follow up with a 20K Assassin's Will.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
No, it shouldn't. Incap is meant for dps, sweep is meant to tank.Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I don't think Incapacitating Strike over performs.
If a person wants to use a dodgeable, telegraphed ultimate with the potential to gain a stun, defile, and damage boost against one target and give up team assistance, multi-target, ultimate with less counters, defensive ultimate, or healing ultimate, then they should go for it. That is exactly the point of choosing one ultimate over another. Sacrifice [x] to gain [y].
You want to trade that non over-performing Incap Strike that's on Live for my Empowering Sweep? They cost the same so should be equivalent in power, yes?
If you dont like it adapt and use another ulti or play as a nb, same way i had to adapt and use 2h weapons on my mNB only to be able to use FM0 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Omg outrageous, arghh so angryyy. LOLEmma_Overload wrote: »Absolutely outrageous that they can hit you with this and follow up with a 20K Assassin's Will.2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »idk what is overperforming here..I as stamblade even not using that often incap than DBoS
my incap is just mor time dodget tha getting hit if I dont hit someone with it on cc or from stealth and here I much more prefer DBoS because of undodgable stun + also great dmg with not bad dot
incap for me is great only against damn tanks/healbots and then maybe for people in cc by someone other before or in choas so people just cant see everything
TL;DR
I as stamblade preffer more DBoS than incap (if not fighting against tanks/healbots) because its unddodgable with even better direct dmg hit with dot and uou are 100% sure someone wonth dodge this etc
Then you won't mind a nerf now would you?
probably, as ganking era gone with the wind as for me
as I at all running DBoS on 2h (main wepon) and incap on bow and incap only situationally if Im going use it from stelth or on damn healbot and I won't mind then to use other ult than incap like maybe balista which is also great especially on shieldstackers where defile nto work
and at all on everyone this ult is great but incap is doingg beteer because of how cheaper it is for pvp
(I was writing here only for pvp perspective, not pve)Edited by Edziu on July 15, 2018 6:20PM0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭If it's really op, why can templars survive my ganks by healing through major defile to full health?
Op means nobody survives.
Nobody survives curse + meteor + rune cage + fury, hence why sorcs are opEdited by mr_wazzabi on July 15, 2018 6:46PMBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP4 -
Joshlenoir✭✭✭✭The 20% dmg buffLots of people misunderstanding PvP mechanics in this thread
mr_wazzabi wrote: »If it's really op, why can templars survive my ganks by healing through major defile to full health?
Op means nobody survives.
Nobody survives curse + meteor + rune cage + fury, hence why sorcs are op
OP means overpowered, or overperforming. Sloads is both overpowered and overperforming but the vast majority of people getting carried by it won't kill me on their own merits. Templars don't die to your incaps because most of them are in heavy armor, have shields, or use sword and board, or all three. Also they can cleanse all of the incap debuffs(20% DMG, defile, etc.) with one cast of ritual. I'm honestly very surprised at how you missed that.Why do people not block Incapacitating Strike?
[] Not enough experience in the game to know when they should block
[] Not knowing it can be blocked
[] Not having enough stamina to block
[] Not wanting to survive Incapacitating Strike (for people who prefer following the crowd)
"Just block it" easy thing to say when you're never in a position where you're the one getting ganked, and never have to fight a nightblade, or multiple at once.
"Not enough experience", I can guarantee the majority of the people voting on this thread have a deeper more nuanced understanding of PvP / nightblade mechanics than you do and play multiple classes, so they can actually see things from different perspectives.
And the rest of your options are just irrelevant.
Incap is OP because it's the lowest cost ultimate in the game with the highest damage output, damage potential, and CC. it doesn't matter if it's single target. The nerfs to incap will only greatly negatively affect gankers or brand new nightblades. Based on what you've been saying it seems like you fall under one of those categories.
It's easy to say something isn't OP when it's on the only class you play and you're rarely on the receiving end of it. All classes have had appropriate changes / nerfs and it's time nightblades do as well. If you think a 20% damage buff, on top of a 30%+ defile (CP increases this), on top of a CC while only costing 75 ultimate isn't overpowered, on a class that gets 20 ultimate simply for drinking a potion, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe try to play other classes and fight nightblades alone and see what the difference is.Edited by Joshlenoir on July 15, 2018 7:53PM2 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »I don't think Incapacitating Strike over performs.
If a person wants to use a dodgeable, telegraphed ultimate with the potential to gain a stun, defile, and damage boost against one target and give up team assistance, multi-target, ultimate with less counters, defensive ultimate, or healing ultimate, then they should go for it. That is exactly the point of choosing one ultimate over another. Sacrifice [x] to gain [y].
You want to trade that non over-performing Incap Strike that's on Live for my Empowering Sweep? They cost the same so should be equivalent in power, yes?
If you are going to reply that ZoS should buff my crummy ultimate rather than nerf the NB one, I'd be fine with that. The problem, going on 3+ years now, is that ZoS has not done that and so we are stuck in a situation where the NB 75 cost ultimate is way better than the templar 75 cost ultimate.
@Joy_Division
I'd like to see Radial Sweep potentially improved, too (as I'd like more of a reason to slot it over Dawnbreaker on a stamina Templar), but I don't think it's easy to compare Radial Sweep to Incap because they don't operate in the same way. One is a dodgeable single target that relies on burst, while the other is an undodgeable AOE that appears to be designed to encourage sustained pressure on an opponent.
The DOT from Radial Sweep seems to suggest that we pressure close enemies, and it has decent synergy with Puncturing Strikes (another undodgeable, melee-range AOE). It appears with these skills that ZOS encourages our Templars to keep pressure on opponents within our melee range rather than burst them (which appears to be their Nightblade intent... see Incap + Surprise Attack). Defensively, the Empowering Sweep morph, specifically can also offer a nice damage debuff that gets stronger with more enemies hit, pushing it more into the realm of multi-enemy situations rather than single target burst situations.
While I get how it may be tempting to say that Incap and Radial Sweep are the same cost, so they should be "equivalent in power," I don't think it's that simple when we factor in components such as dodgeability, number of targets, synergy with other skills, and burst vs. sustained pressure.0 -
Gprime31✭✭✭✭Who cares about any of this.... focus on getting zos to fix the server performance. This should be priority. What is wrong with everyone, stuck on balance.0
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Sparr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭The fact that it's built into a combo, even without incap a good ganker will end you before you can react.@Sparr0w so I get the notification
Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+DD: All Mag + StamPC (EU) - Sparrxw | CP 810+
Heal: Templar | Sorc | NB | Warden | Necro
Tank: NB | DK | Warden
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GHDD: All Mag + Stam
Heal: Templar | Sorc
Tank: DK | NB
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GH + GS1 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Major defileI just know that when im fighting outnumbered and a majority of new or worse players are on a nb, it’s the defile that *** me. Just hearing *schwing schwing* of the incap blades and then they don’t do anything after that.also the same class to spam snipe. Two of the most infuriating sources of defile.
Defile just needs to be looked at and moved to more appropriate abilities like nova and kept on shackle. Make large stationary ults play a purpose for major defile and give spammable skills minor defile.
Duroks should be the defensive version of crest. And befoul shouldn’t ramp up so easily for so few points. Or at least be in the blue tree.
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